there is going to be a lot of trade talk at the beginning of the draft that will involve San Francisco, New York Jets, and Oakland. I could see the draft being tipped upside down.
they're not going to take them, then they'll probably trade the pick. Is Williams or Bosa really worth more than the haul of draft picks they could get by trading down?
they're not going to take them, then they'll probably trade the pick. Is Williams or Bosa really worth more than the haul of draft picks they could get by trading down?
9ers and Jets have young QBs, not much motivation to jump in front of them.
Jets at 3 make sense since they are desperate to trade down and it would allow a team to jump in front of Oakland
Maybe Giants should stop talking to ARZ about Rosen Â
this is not a surprise at all. I have been saying consistently on here that although Zona is most likely to take Murray, there is a real possibility (20%-30%) they take Bosa.
Keep in mind there were very credible reports that Zona tried to deal this pick up to and through the combine. There were no good offers. For whatever reason the league was soft on this QB class, including Murray. Maybe it is because there are not as many QB needy teams as in years past.
And if the Cards can't deal the pick don't expect it to be so easy for the 49'ers.
if they see him as ELI's replacement, None of us know if that is so.. Definitely could be a game changer for the long haul. If he is for real. Just like ELI was.
The Cardinals passing on Kyler and him ending up with the Giants is a dream scenario. Given what Shurmur says he wants in a QB, this is a perfect fit. I'd snap give up 6 and 17 for him. The top 3 most accurate QBs in the PFF database over the last 5 years in terms of ball placement (not necessarily completion %) are Baker, Mahomes, and Kyler. Accuracy, arm strength, and then the mobility is icing on the cake. But some people are going to die on the hill rallying against him, just like they did with Baker last year, rather than keeping an open mind and using some critical thinking skills.
The Cards are 1000% inscentivized to downplay Murray... Â
He’s a niche QB with high end skill but a lot of risk as a QB and his size is an issue still folks.
The way the league is going hitting the QB in any form may be illegal in the coming years.
I don't think durability is the biggest issue with Murray's size. I'd be more concerned about his ability to see downfield and find passing lanes among so many tall linemen and pass rushers.
He’s a niche QB with high end skill but a lot of risk as a QB and his size is an issue still folks.
The way the league is going hitting the QB in any form may be illegal in the coming years.
I don't think durability is the biggest issue with Murray's size. I'd be more concerned about his ability to see downfield and find passing lanes among so many tall linemen and pass rushers.
Charlie Weis, fwiw, was effusive in his praise of Murray
RE: The Cards are 1000% inscentivized to downplay Murray... Â
The market determines Rosen's value, not how much desire the Cards show for Murray. If they're dealing Rosen it already obvious that they are drafting Murray. What determines Rosen's value primarily is how many potential trade partners they have and how much the desire Rosen.
Seriously, you don’t think the Skins would be all in at 15, or do you feel they were burned badly by RG III?
No. I think Jay Gruden prefers more traditional size.
Now Miami may be interesting because they always need to seel tickets. But with Flores being a first time HC, and a disciple of BB, he may think there are better opportunities at 13.
Seriously, you don’t think the Skins would be all in at 15, or do you feel they were burned badly by RG III?
No. I think Jay Gruden prefers more traditional size.
Now Miami may be interesting because they always need to seel tickets. But with Flores being a first time HC, and a disciple of BB, he may think there are better opportunities at 13.
Except all that their owner Steve Ross cares about is selling tickets and marketing
or they've got heaps of work to do repairing their relationship with Rosen.
Rosen & his agent are smart enough to know that the Cardinals have hurt his value with how they've handled this so far.
They've got time before they have to worry about resigning Rosen(and he has his own work to do to be a guy you want to resign), but they have work to do.
He loves the big pick. You can just tell in his pressers that he can’t wait to make a splash. It’s his personality and we need a QB desperately. He would use the same argument he used for SB last year. Best player in the draft.
If Murray gets to #6 and the Giants select Jones, I predict the biggest meltdown in BBI history.
I'd rather pray the Giants TRADED DOWN and got a lot to build upon for the FUTURE than take JONES; unless, he is like their #1 rated guy regardless of position.
I like draft boards and trust DG. I have too as a fan.
But yeah, if we take Jones after Murray the Forum will be nuts as will the media...for years perhaps.
But here is the thing and there really is no way around it: if DG traded down because the QB that is available isn't rated high enough on his draft board; and the team we trade with takes him; and he develops into Mahomes #2, the Giants are not only the next Browns but possibly cursed for our lifetimes Eric. We have to be smart here and the safe bet is we take the BPA and don't trade. If its Jones, well, so be it. If its Haskins, well, so be it. And if its Murray, well so be it.
He we take: may he just ROCK on the FIELD. That is all I ask. Amen.
Than a season or 2 I watch tons of college football (doesn't mean I know shit) but not this kid he's gifted.
Again I don't know shit I thought Rosen was the best CFL QB last year
The Cardinals have sold out EVERY home game in Arizona since their stadium was built for them. More than 100 games in a row. Whether the select Murray or not has nothing to do with selling more tickets.
they're not going to take them, then they'll probably trade the pick. Is Williams or Bosa really worth more than the haul of draft picks they could get by trading down?
Are there teams other than Arizona excited about Murray?
Seriously, you don’t think the Skins would be all in at 15, or do you feel they were burned badly by RG III?
No. I think Jay Gruden prefers more traditional size.
Now Miami may be interesting because they always need to seel tickets. But with Flores being a first time HC, and a disciple of BB, he may think there are better opportunities at 13.
The Cardinals passing on Kyler and him ending up with the Giants is a dream scenario. Given what Shurmur says he wants in a QB, this is a perfect fit. I'd snap give up 6 and 17 for him. The top 3 most accurate QBs in the PFF database over the last 5 years in terms of ball placement (not necessarily completion %) are Baker, Mahomes, and Kyler. Accuracy, arm strength, and then the mobility is icing on the cake. But some people are going to die on the hill rallying against him, just like they did with Baker last year, rather than keeping an open mind and using some critical thinking skills.
Absolutely.
I’m still waiting on even just a small piece of data that suggests smaller guys are more likely to get hurt than taller guys. There isn’t but it would be nice to see someone try. Everyone just says he’s an injury risk.
I’d be all over murray like a cheap suit if I’m the giants. But he’s going to the cards at one.
be surprised if we traded for Sloter or Rosen. We could have had Sloter last year, and drafted Lauletta instead.
They also only had 5 picks last year ... as opposed to 12 this year. Not to mention the Vikings just signed another QB behind Cousins ...
I'm OK trading a day three pick for Sloter, but they could have traded for him last year.
They weren’t trading picks when they only had 5 ... now they have more than double that and the Vikings have added yet another QB ... trade = much more likely this year given these factors, if they want him. They have as many picks in rounds 4-5 as they did in the entire draft last year.
With Murray regarding a no-baseball for X years no matter what type clause, perhaps? The only way I see him being passed over by Arizona and sliding is if there word is out that Murray won't sign a clause or rider. Thursday will be interesting.
or they've got heaps of work to do repairing their relationship with Rosen.
Rosen & his agent are smart enough to know that the Cardinals have hurt his value with how they've handled this so far.
They've got time before they have to worry about resigning Rosen(and he has his own work to do to be a guy you want to resign), but they have work to do.
Rosen's value hasn't been hurt. His contract lasts a few more years and that doesn't change. And if he performs well, no matter where he ends up, his value for his second contract will be high. Performance dictates Rosen's value for contract number two. This period of uncertainty changes nothing.
be surprised if we traded for Sloter or Rosen. We could have had Sloter last year, and drafted Lauletta instead.
They also only had 5 picks last year ... as opposed to 12 this year. Not to mention the Vikings just signed another QB behind Cousins ...
I'm OK trading a day three pick for Sloter, but they could have traded for him last year.
They weren’t trading picks when they only had 5 ... now they have more than double that and the Vikings have added yet another QB ... trade = much more likely this year given these factors, if they want him. They have as many picks in rounds 4-5 as they did in the entire draft last year.
They tried to trade up for Carter last year. They likely could have traded their fifth round pick for Sloter, and used their fourth on McIntosh. They could have also traded down on day three to get extra picks, and then traded one of those for Sloter.
Then I expect Murray to go to Raiders as they trade up to one to get him. I don’t believe Raiders want Carr just like Bengals new guy doesn’t trust Dalton and just like Miami didn’t trust Tanneyhill.
Nice to see the BS already start flowing
To 3 or 4 ... he’s going 1, or a team is trading up to take him
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How far he’d slide
You’re probably right, but it gets very interesting if he starts sliding
To 3 or 4 ... he’s going 1, or a team is trading up to take him
I would be beyond shocked if cards don't take him.
9ers and Jets have young QBs, not much motivation to jump in front of them.
Jets at 3 make sense since they are desperate to trade down and it would allow a team to jump in front of Oakland
Keep in mind there were very credible reports that Zona tried to deal this pick up to and through the combine. There were no good offers. For whatever reason the league was soft on this QB class, including Murray. Maybe it is because there are not as many QB needy teams as in years past.
And if the Cards can't deal the pick don't expect it to be so easy for the 49'ers.
Wouldn’t we have to completely change our offense? Not that I’m opposed to it, but I find it unlikely
I don't think that's what the FO has in mind. Murray and Barkley would be something else though.
Are you a #CalamriSZN kind of guy Googs?
I don't think that's what the FO has in mind. Murray and Barkley would be something else though.
I like Murray... but that is a tough cost to pay. That’s a lot of defensive help we would lose.... I personally want to go defense all day
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you mean (gasp) bench Eli...
Are you a #CalamriSZN kind of guy Googs?
I am more like a guy and a half...
I would love to hear our Asshats chime in on how the Giants have Murray ranked. Not that anything is likely to happen.
The way the league is going hitting the QB in any form may be illegal in the coming years.
There is absolutely zero chance of him falling that far. Zero. And here I thought you were the QB guru.
...how else will they get any value for Rosen?
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there is a reasonable chance he falls to the bottom of the first or top of the second.
There is absolutely zero chance of him falling that far. Zero. And here I thought you were the QB guru.
Outside of AZ, and maybe Oakland (b/s I can't get a feel for Gruden these days), I don't think Murray is viewed as great first round value.
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In comment 14396626 bw in dc said:
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there is a reasonable chance he falls to the bottom of the first or top of the second.
There is absolutely zero chance of him falling that far. Zero. And here I thought you were the QB guru.
Outside of AZ, and maybe Oakland (b/s I can't get a feel for Gruden these days), I don't think Murray is viewed as great first round value.
Seriously, you don’t think the Skins would be all in at 15, or do you feel they were burned badly by RG III?
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He’s a niche QB with high end skill but a lot of risk as a QB and his size is an issue still folks.
The way the league is going hitting the QB in any form may be illegal in the coming years.
Quote:
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He’s a niche QB with high end skill but a lot of risk as a QB and his size is an issue still folks.
The way the league is going hitting the QB in any form may be illegal in the coming years.
I don't think durability is the biggest issue with Murray's size. I'd be more concerned about his ability to see downfield and find passing lanes among so many tall linemen and pass rushers.
Charlie Weis, fwiw, was effusive in his praise of Murray
...how else will they get any value for Rosen?
The market determines Rosen's value, not how much desire the Cards show for Murray. If they're dealing Rosen it already obvious that they are drafting Murray. What determines Rosen's value primarily is how many potential trade partners they have and how much the desire Rosen.
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In comment 14396630 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 14396626 bw in dc said:
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there is a reasonable chance he falls to the bottom of the first or top of the second.
There is absolutely zero chance of him falling that far. Zero. And here I thought you were the QB guru.
Outside of AZ, and maybe Oakland (b/s I can't get a feel for Gruden these days), I don't think Murray is viewed as great first round value.
Seriously, you don’t think the Skins would be all in at 15, or do you feel they were burned badly by RG III?
I don't know that the Skins are all in on Murray. They did not show interest in obtaining the Zona #1. The may prefer Haskins, Jones and Lock.
Seriously, you don’t think the Skins would be all in at 15, or do you feel they were burned badly by RG III?
No. I think Jay Gruden prefers more traditional size.
Now Miami may be interesting because they always need to seel tickets. But with Flores being a first time HC, and a disciple of BB, he may think there are better opportunities at 13.
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Seriously, you don’t think the Skins would be all in at 15, or do you feel they were burned badly by RG III?
No. I think Jay Gruden prefers more traditional size.
Now Miami may be interesting because they always need to seel tickets. But with Flores being a first time HC, and a disciple of BB, he may think there are better opportunities at 13.
Except all that their owner Steve Ross cares about is selling tickets and marketing
Rosen & his agent are smart enough to know that the Cardinals have hurt his value with how they've handled this so far.
They've got time before they have to worry about resigning Rosen(and he has his own work to do to be a guy you want to resign), but they have work to do.
And rightfully so. Jones is not good.
I'd be laughing the whole time as to not cry
I like draft boards and trust DG. I have too as a fan.
But yeah, if we take Jones after Murray the Forum will be nuts as will the media...for years perhaps.
But here is the thing and there really is no way around it: if DG traded down because the QB that is available isn't rated high enough on his draft board; and the team we trade with takes him; and he develops into Mahomes #2, the Giants are not only the next Browns but possibly cursed for our lifetimes Eric. We have to be smart here and the safe bet is we take the BPA and don't trade. If its Jones, well, so be it. If its Haskins, well, so be it. And if its Murray, well so be it.
He we take: may he just ROCK on the FIELD. That is all I ask. Amen.
Again I don't know shit I thought Rosen was the best CFL QB last year
Yup.
+1
The Cards have turned away from Rosen so badly, I'd be shocked if they keep him.
Then he measures an inch taller than people thought at the combine, then AZ wants him, maybe, and now he is the undisputed top QB. Except he is not...
Are there teams other than Arizona excited about Murray?
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Seriously, you don’t think the Skins would be all in at 15, or do you feel they were burned badly by RG III?
No. I think Jay Gruden prefers more traditional size.
Now Miami may be interesting because they always need to seel tickets. But with Flores being a first time HC, and a disciple of BB, he may think there are better opportunities at 13.
Miami is tanking for Tua.
Not surprised, way too 21st century outside the box thinking for this franchise.
Anything on Sloter or Tyree Jackson?
They also only had 5 picks last year ... as opposed to 12 this year. Not to mention the Vikings just signed another QB behind Cousins ...
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be surprised if we traded for Sloter or Rosen. We could have had Sloter last year, and drafted Lauletta instead.
They also only had 5 picks last year ... as opposed to 12 this year. Not to mention the Vikings just signed another QB behind Cousins ...
I'm OK trading a day three pick for Sloter, but they could have traded for him last year.
Absolutely.
I’m still waiting on even just a small piece of data that suggests smaller guys are more likely to get hurt than taller guys. There isn’t but it would be nice to see someone try. Everyone just says he’s an injury risk.
I’d be all over murray like a cheap suit if I’m the giants. But he’s going to the cards at one.
Lol. My god it would be something to behold....
Dude.
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In comment 14396865 AcidTest said:
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be surprised if we traded for Sloter or Rosen. We could have had Sloter last year, and drafted Lauletta instead.
They also only had 5 picks last year ... as opposed to 12 this year. Not to mention the Vikings just signed another QB behind Cousins ...
I'm OK trading a day three pick for Sloter, but they could have traded for him last year.
They weren’t trading picks when they only had 5 ... now they have more than double that and the Vikings have added yet another QB ... trade = much more likely this year given these factors, if they want him. They have as many picks in rounds 4-5 as they did in the entire draft last year.
Rosen & his agent are smart enough to know that the Cardinals have hurt his value with how they've handled this so far.
They've got time before they have to worry about resigning Rosen(and he has his own work to do to be a guy you want to resign), but they have work to do.
Rosen's value hasn't been hurt. His contract lasts a few more years and that doesn't change. And if he performs well, no matter where he ends up, his value for his second contract will be high. Performance dictates Rosen's value for contract number two. This period of uncertainty changes nothing.
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In comment 14396870 GothamGiants said:
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In comment 14396865 AcidTest said:
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be surprised if we traded for Sloter or Rosen. We could have had Sloter last year, and drafted Lauletta instead.
They also only had 5 picks last year ... as opposed to 12 this year. Not to mention the Vikings just signed another QB behind Cousins ...
I'm OK trading a day three pick for Sloter, but they could have traded for him last year.
They weren’t trading picks when they only had 5 ... now they have more than double that and the Vikings have added yet another QB ... trade = much more likely this year given these factors, if they want him. They have as many picks in rounds 4-5 as they did in the entire draft last year.
They tried to trade up for Carter last year. They likely could have traded their fifth round pick for Sloter, and used their fourth on McIntosh. They could have also traded down on day three to get extra picks, and then traded one of those for Sloter.
On the GoDeep post that got deleted one of the tidbits that he had included was "Daniel Jones is the QB of choice. Even with Murray available."
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I wonder what the Giants think of Murray?
On the GoDeep post that got deleted one of the tidbits that he had included was "Daniel Jones is the QB of choice. Even with Murray available."
Is the moratorium on that thread over now? Cause this is legit.
Raiders lover Murray - ( New Window )
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In comment 14396553 Eric from BBI said:
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I wonder what the Giants think of Murray?
On the GoDeep post that got deleted one of the tidbits that he had included was "Daniel Jones is the QB of choice. Even with Murray available."
Is the moratorium on that thread over now? Cause this is legit.
I agree 100% not saying I like it but agreed