Really good article from The Ringer today. I know Gettleman has been trashed by many in the media for not having a cohesive plan in place. But maybe he does, even if most don't agree with it. The Ringer - ( New Window )
Top 5 in rushing offense, including the playoff push on the back of their first round RB Sony Michel
Brady also had more INT than TD this postseason
Philly had the #3 rushing offense and #1 run defense in their SB year. Blake F’n Bortles was 1 quarter away from playing against Nick Foles in this super bowl ... which also included Case Keenum in the conference championship on the back of a top 10 run offense/defense.
So sick of this “pass first” nonsense. It’s still football.
Just not sure its a plan that is capable of winning in today's league. If your offense is predicated on the run, then you unquestionably need a top 5 defense both in yards and points. Think teams like the Bucs, Ravens, Jaguars of a couple of years ago.
Time will tell and I think the next qb choice will have a lot to say in where the Giants view themselves as a franchise.
I still don’t see why it’s all or nothing. It sounds to me like Gettleman wants to focus on the run and ToP, not abandon the pass. People need to take a step back and think logically.
Just not sure its a plan that is capable of winning in today's league. If your offense is predicated on the run, then you unquestionably need a top 5 defense both in yards and points. Think teams like the Bucs, Ravens, Jaguars of a couple of years ago.
Time will tell and I think the next qb choice will have a lot to say in where the Giants view themselves as a franchise.
I still don’t see why it’s all or nothing. It sounds to me like Gettleman wants to focus on the run and ToP, not abandon the pass. People need to take a step back and think logically.
Strong game makes Eli’s playaction even more effective ... everybody wins
Feed Saquon, get Shepard/Tate constant 1:1 matchups and let a yac-machine like Tate burn secondaries
Of “getting away from basketball on grass” or “hog mollies” or “ground and pound” despite the fact that the winning teams pass more and pass more efficiently is troubling.
It’s not 1995 anymore. “Basketball on grass” or quick striking offenses with speed all over the place is how you win in today’s NFL.
Would you rather have the 2018 Chiefs offense or the 2017 Jaguars offense?
DG’s mantra is more rooted in facts and results than this fantasy football, PFF garbage take.
Who has won a SB on the back of some high flying passing offense the last 20 years? The Rams? Anyone else?
Top 5 in rushing offense, including the playoff push on the back of their first round RB Sony Michel
Brady also had more INT than TD this postseason
Philly had the #3 rushing offense and #1 run defense in their SB year. Blake F’n Bortles was 1 quarter away from playing against Nick Foles in this super bowl ... which also included Case Keenum in the conference championship on the back of a top 10 run offense/defense.
So sick of this “pass first” nonsense. It’s still football.
You repeatedly post about the Jags and Blake Bortles. The year they went to the AFC Championship Game that defense was dominant and scored a freakish amount of defensive TDs if I recall. Last year, when the defense was still one of the best in the league (5th overall) but lacking those defensive TDs, they could no longer compete because Blake F'n Bortles was their QB and they couldn't score. One of the first things they did in the offseason was replace him. Without a good QB and passing game, all other facets of the team must be dominant in order to contend.
DG’s mantra is more rooted in facts and results than this fantasy football, PFF garbage take.
Who has won a SB on the back of some high flying passing offense the last 20 years? The Rams? Anyone else?
Off the top of my head - Packers, Saints, Colts. I'm sure there have been others - if not "high flying" then at least in the Top 10 in passing offense.
Of “getting away from basketball on grass” or “hog mollies” or “ground and pound” despite the fact that the winning teams pass more and pass more efficiently is troubling.
It’s not 1995 anymore. “Basketball on grass” or quick striking offenses with speed all over the place is how you win in today’s NFL.
Would you rather have the 2018 Chiefs offense or the 2017 Jaguars offense?
DG’s mantra is more rooted in facts and results than this fantasy football, PFF garbage take.
Who has won a SB on the back of some high flying passing offense the last 20 years? The Rams? Anyone else?
Just not sure its a plan that is capable of winning in today's league. If your offense is predicated on the run, then you unquestionably need a top 5 defense both in yards and points. Think teams like the Bucs, Ravens, Jaguars of a couple of years ago.
Time will tell and I think the next qb choice will have a lot to say in where the Giants view themselves as a franchise.
I still don’t see why it’s all or nothing. It sounds to me like Gettleman wants to focus on the run and ToP, not abandon the pass. People need to take a step back and think logically.
Strong game makes Eli’s playaction even more effective ... everybody wins
Feed Saquon, get Shepard/Tate constant 1:1 matchups and let a yac-machine like Tate burn secondaries
This also isn’t true, a strong running game doesn’t lead to more effective play action.
Let’s hear some solutions. We get it, you think the team sucks and want them to tank every year. Who would you draft at 6/17? Do you like any of the QB’s this year?
DG’s mantra is more rooted in facts and results than this fantasy football, PFF garbage take.
Who has won a SB on the back of some high flying passing offense the last 20 years? The Rams? Anyone else?
Off the top of my head - Packers, Saints, Colts. I'm sure there have been others - if not "high flying" then at least in the Top 10 in passing offense.
The Colts defense carried them through the playoffs in 06. I don’t really remember the Packers and saints runs.
It’s ironic that the data supports DG’s take yet he gets shit on here and in the media for being an antiquated moron.
LIII: 3rd v 5th best rushing teams
LII: 3rd vs 10th best rushing teams (PHI #1 run defense)
LI: 5th vs 7th best rushing teams (NE #3 run defense)
L: 2nd vs 17th best rushing teams (Denver, top 3 rushing defense)
XLIX: 1st vs 18th rushing teams (both top 10 rushing defense)
The last 5 SB’s have featured a top 5 rushing team in each matchup. It would appear running the ball, and stopping the run, just may still be fairly important - no matter how many “passing league” cliches get thrown around.
LIII: 3rd v 5th best rushing teams
LII: 3rd vs 10th best rushing teams (PHI #1 run defense)
LI: 5th vs 7th best rushing teams (NE #3 run defense)
L: 2nd vs 17th best rushing teams (Denver, top 3 rushing defense)
XLIX: 1st vs 18th rushing teams (both top 10 rushing defense)
The last 5 SB’s have featured a top 5 rushing team in each matchup. It would appear running the ball, and stopping the run, just may still be fairly important - no matter how many “passing league” cliches get thrown around.
Once again you continue to ignore the context. Good teams run more at the end of the game because they have the lead. You pass to get the lead.
Post these teams passing to rushing TD ratio and get back to me.
I think that's part of the issue they had with drafting a RB at #2 overall last yr in what was considered by many to be one of the best QB classes in a long time.
If it were OL + DL + RB = championship then that move would have made more sense. But as the article stated, if he really didn't believe in any of the QB's then passing on them is the smart move.
My personal biggest concern (and take this with a grain of salt) is that Gettleman really believed that "Eli had years left" and could still win a championship. If he really believed that (and made the decision at #2 b/c of it) then his QB evaluation skills are scary.
Let's cut to the chase.
This is just thread #3,167 from Josh lamenting not drafting a QB.
you’re preaching like you know better. I’m not a fan. You’re also ignoring FACTS that have been posted on this thread they doesn’t jive with your diatribe. Here’s some more for you, look at the Giants first two SB wins. Yes it was a different era, but they had excellent defenses with mediocre secondaries. It’s still a big man’s game and making the QB uncomfortable is STILL the best way to win.
you’re preaching like you know better. I’m not a fan. You’re also ignoring FACTS that have been posted on this thread they doesn’t jive with your diatribe. Here’s some more for you, look at the Giants first two SB wins. Yes it was a different era, but they had excellent defenses with mediocre secondaries. It’s still a big man’s game and making the QB uncomfortable is STILL the best way to win.
I’m stating my opinion just like Gotham is, you don’t like it because you disagree. That’s fine.
Who cares about the first two Super Bowl wins? Those were 30+ years ago. Game plans were different. Players were built differently. Teams were constructed completely different. The linebacker position is night and day from what it was then.
LIII: 3rd v 5th best rushing teams
LII: 3rd vs 10th best rushing teams (PHI #1 run defense)
LI: 5th vs 7th best rushing teams (NE #3 run defense)
L: 2nd vs 17th best rushing teams (Denver, top 3 rushing defense)
XLIX: 1st vs 18th rushing teams (both top 10 rushing defense)
The last 5 SB’s have featured a top 5 rushing team in each matchup. It would appear running the ball, and stopping the run, just may still be fairly important - no matter how many “passing league” cliches get thrown around.
Once again you continue to ignore the context. Good teams run more at the end of the game because they have the lead. You pass to get the lead.
Post these teams passing to rushing TD ratio and get back to me.
Rams (2nd most rushing TD, 8th most pass TD) vs. Patriots (4th most rushing TD, 11th most pass TD)
Both teams with 1st round RB on the roster too. Good night.
you’re preaching like you know better. I’m not a fan. You’re also ignoring FACTS that have been posted on this thread they doesn’t jive with your diatribe. Here’s some more for you, look at the Giants first two SB wins. Yes it was a different era, but they had excellent defenses with mediocre secondaries. It’s still a big man’s game and making the QB uncomfortable is STILL the best way to win.
I’m stating my opinion just like Gotham is, you don’t like it because you disagree. That’s fine.
Who cares about the first two Super Bowl wins? Those were 30+ years ago. Game plans were different. Players were built differently. Teams were constructed completely different. The linebacker position is night and day from what it was then.
It’s a different game.
The difference is i’m Using data rather than cliches and a fantasy-football mindset.
Top 5 rushing teams seem to still somehow make the SB every year ... it’s almost like it’s still beneficial. How’d teams get so far with Bortles/Keenum/Foles in 2017? Why’d 2 top 5 rushing teams with 1st round RBs make this SB this past season?
RE: Anyone with any common sense can see DG has a plan and what it is Â
Especially since he's said it over and over again.
Run the ball
Stop the Run
Get to the QB
Change the culture in the locker room
Did all these meat head reporters miss all those pressers? There is no secret to his approach. Every move he has made has revolved around these principles.
He talks a good story but actions speak louder than words.
Our oline was ranked 15th against the run in 2017 .... 29th in 2018.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2017
Our two best run stoppers Collins and Snacks are no longer on the team
Our two best pass rushers JPP and Vernon are no longer on the team.
Culture doesn't win games. Michael Irvin stabbed a teammate in the neck but that team won 3 super bowls in four years.
LIII: 3rd v 5th best rushing teams
LII: 3rd vs 10th best rushing teams (PHI #1 run defense)
LI: 5th vs 7th best rushing teams (NE #3 run defense)
L: 2nd vs 17th best rushing teams (Denver, top 3 rushing defense)
XLIX: 1st vs 18th rushing teams (both top 10 rushing defense)
The last 5 SB’s have featured a top 5 rushing team in each matchup. It would appear running the ball, and stopping the run, just may still be fairly important - no matter how many “passing league” cliches get thrown around.
Once again you continue to ignore the context. Good teams run more at the end of the game because they have the lead. You pass to get the lead.
Post these teams passing to rushing TD ratio and get back to me.
Rams (2nd most rushing TD, 8th most pass TD) vs. Patriots (4th most rushing TD, 11th most pass TD)
Both teams with 1st round RB on the roster too. Good night.
You didn’t answer the question so I’ll do it for you:
2018: Rams 1.34:1, Pats 1.61:1
2017: Pats 2:1 passing td to rushing ratio, Eagles 4.2:1
2016: Falcons: 2:1, Pats 1.68:1
2015: Panthers: 1.84: Pats 2.56:1
2014: Pats 2.61:1, Seahawks 1:1
So the champions had
1.61:1
4.2:1
1.68:1
2.56:1
2.61:1
3 of the last 5 champions passed for more than a full TD more a game than they ran for. The Eagles had a grand total of 9 rushing TDS. Just spitting out rushing total yardage ignores the context behind the stats.
you’re preaching like you know better. I’m not a fan. You’re also ignoring FACTS that have been posted on this thread they doesn’t jive with your diatribe. Here’s some more for you, look at the Giants first two SB wins. Yes it was a different era, but they had excellent defenses with mediocre secondaries. It’s still a big man’s game and making the QB uncomfortable is STILL the best way to win.
I’m stating my opinion just like Gotham is, you don’t like it because you disagree. That’s fine.
Who cares about the first two Super Bowl wins? Those were 30+ years ago. Game plans were different. Players were built differently. Teams were constructed completely different. The linebacker position is night and day from what it was then.
It’s a different game.
The difference is i’m Using data rather than cliches and a fantasy-football mindset.
Top 5 rushing teams seem to still somehow make the SB every year ... it’s almost like it’s still beneficial. How’d teams get so far with Bortles/Keenum/Foles in 2017? Why’d 2 top 5 rushing teams with 1st round RBs make this SB this past season?
The only data your using is total rushing yards. That’s box score scouting.
RE: RE: Anyone with any common sense can see DG has a plan and what it is Â
Especially since he's said it over and over again.
Run the ball
Stop the Run
Get to the QB
Change the culture in the locker room
Did all these meat head reporters miss all those pressers? There is no secret to his approach. Every move he has made has revolved around these principles.
He talks a good story but actions speak louder than words.
Our oline was ranked 15th against the run in 2017 .... 29th in 2018.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2017
Our two best run stoppers Collins and Snacks are no longer on the team
Our two best pass rushers JPP and Vernon are no longer on the team.
Culture doesn't win games. Michael Irvin stabbed a teammate in the neck but that team won 3 super bowls in four years.
Let’s hear some solutions. We get it, you think the team sucks and want them to tank every year. Who would you draft at 6/17? Do you like any of the QB’s this year?
I love Murray. Jones I don't hate, but I certainly liked last years crop of QB's the giants had to pick from better than him.
Britt, the 2005-2011 teams had a terrific pass rush and a franchise QB. They also had the worst running game in the league in the regular season in 2011 and still made the playoffs because Eli stood on his head.
Running the ball is important, but it's a lot easier to find running backs than it is pass rushers or franchise QB's. Their plan is dead in the water without a pass rush and a QB.
If they can't get Murray I would load up on defense this year, take 2 pass rushers 1st 2 picks or a pass rusher and a corner. Then get QB in 2020.
Saquon is an awesome talent but each year the Giants suck and without a QB and a pass rush they will certainly continue to suck until they fill those holes his prime is being wasted. The way the Giants are going by the time they are good again Barkley will be wanting mega bucks and then his value significantly diminishes when he's making huge money. The Giants will have hit the lottery if his prime lasts more than 5 years. I fear a coach like Shurmur who will be fired if the Giants suck in 2019 running Barkley into the ground and shortening his shelf life even more.
I really have no idea why people expect the Giants to be even decent in 2019. People (and the GM) keep talking about culture. The Giants dont have a culture problem. They have a "one of the worst rosters talent wise in the entire league" problem. The most important positions on the field the Giants have below average talent, and that might be putting it kindly.
I was for trading Saquon because I think this team is further away from contending than all but one or two other teams in the league. I have zero interest in paying a running back huge money. I have a hard time seeing this team as a true contender until they get a franchise QB.
I want Murray or Josh Allen with the 1st pick. Then defense at 17.
What happened to the Jaguars this year? Their defense wasn’t as good, they were 28th in rushing ypg, and the QB couldn’t get it done.
The Jaguars defensive TO % dropped from 15.6% to 8%. The 2017 was propped up by a defense who benefited greatly from turnover luck, not the running game.
You realize a big part of beating the Patriots in both Superbowls was keeping their offense off the field with long, sustained drives right? Running the ball, stopping the run, and rushing the passer played a huge part in winning both those games.
In 42, our opening drive was a record long drive (incidentally breaking the ‘90 Giants record, same gameplay against the Bills but I digress). The Patriots offense didn’t touch the ball until near the 2nd quarter!
You realize a big part of beating the Patriots in both Superbowls was keeping their offense off the field with long, sustained drives right? Running the ball, stopping the run, and rushing the passer played a huge part in winning both those games.
In 42, our opening drive was a record long drive (incidentally breaking the ‘90 Giants record, same gameplay against the Bills but I digress). The Patriots offense didn’t touch the ball until near the 2nd quarter!
During 46, we owned the TOP by nearly 20 minute!
You’re taking one game though. Each game is going to have its own game plan and game flow based on your strengths.
In 46 they passed the ball 41 times to 19 runs. They weren’t a good rushing team and got their on the strength of their passing game.
In 42 they ran the ball in the postseason:
22 times for 69
33 for 154
14 for 28
16 for 45.
They passed the ball 48 times to 16 runs in that Super Bowl.
What happened to the Jaguars this year? Their defense wasn’t as good, they were 28th in rushing ypg, and the QB couldn’t get it done.
The Jaguars defensive TO % dropped from 15.6% to 8%. The 2017 was propped up by a defense who benefited greatly from turnover luck, not the running game.
The rams 1st round RB carried them throughout the season and they got their ass kicked in the SB without him. Gurley averaged 130 total yards and 1+TD per game heading into the playoffs, I think he had something to do with their general success.
Speaking of “passing league”, Goff was awful in the playoffs with 1 TD, 2 INTs, and 2 games below 250 yards passing. “Passing league”, clearly.
You do realize mentioning the 2017 Jaguars (the NFLs #1 rushing offense and elite defense) further proves my point of how stupid the passing league cliche is, don’t you?
What happened this year? Parody, and Fournette missing half the season after getting banged up week 1 may have had something to do with it too.
Fix the locker room culture and fix the trenches. Add in the other pieces when the opportunity is there. There are still stop-gaps on the team and it’s no secret that Eli is one of them.
You realize a big part of beating the Patriots in both Superbowls was keeping their offense off the field with long, sustained drives right? Running the ball, stopping the run, and rushing the passer played a huge part in winning both those games.
In 42, our opening drive was a record long drive (incidentally breaking the ‘90 Giants record, same gameplay against the Bills but I digress). The Patriots offense didn’t touch the ball until near the 2nd quarter!
During 46, we owned the TOP by nearly 20 minute!
You’re taking one game though. Each game is going to have its own game plan and game flow based on your strengths.
In 46 they passed the ball 41 times to 19 runs. They weren’t a good rushing team and got their on the strength of their passing game.
In 42 they ran the ball in the postseason:
22 times for 69
33 for 154
14 for 28
16 for 45.
They passed the ball 48 times to 16 runs in that Super Bowl.
In 2007 that was their overall philosophy. Jacobs and Bradshaw were plowing dudes with a power running game and setting the tone. Punishing running. Ask Woodson. It’s more than the stats.
What happened to the Jaguars this year? Their defense wasn’t as good, they were 28th in rushing ypg, and the QB couldn’t get it done.
The Jaguars defensive TO % dropped from 15.6% to 8%. The 2017 was propped up by a defense who benefited greatly from turnover luck, not the running game.
The rams 1st round RB carried them throughout the season and they got their ass kicked in the SB without him. Gurley averaged 130 total yards and 1+TD per game heading into the playoffs, I think he had something to do with their general success.
Speaking of “passing league”, Goff was awful in the playoffs with 1 TD, 2 INTs, and 2 games below 250 yards passing. “Passing league”, clearly.
You do realize mentioning the 2017 Jaguars (the NFLs #1 rushing offense and elite defense) further proves my point of how stupid the passing league cliche is, don’t you?
What happened this year? Parody, and Fournette missing half the season after getting banged up week 1 may have had something to do with it too.
Keep trying.
The 2017 Jaguars were 8th in ypa, they were only the best in total rushing yards but they also had 47 more attempts than the Cowboys who were only 92 yards behind them. They in fact were not the best rushing team.
In 2007 that was their overall philosophy. Jacobs and Bradshaw were plowing dudes with a power running game and setting the tone. Punishing running. Ask Woodson. It’s more than the stats.
And in 2011 their overall philosophy wasn’t predicated on a good running game.
Irregardless of their overall philosophy it came down to their ability to pass the ball when it came to productive offensive play in the playoffs.
Brady also had more INT than TD this postseason
Philly had the #3 rushing offense and #1 run defense in their SB year. Blake F’n Bortles was 1 quarter away from playing against Nick Foles in this super bowl ... which also included Case Keenum in the conference championship on the back of a top 10 run offense/defense.
So sick of this “pass first” nonsense. It’s still football.
Time will tell and I think the next qb choice will have a lot to say in where the Giants view themselves as a franchise.
I still don’t see why it’s all or nothing. It sounds to me like Gettleman wants to focus on the run and ToP, not abandon the pass. People need to take a step back and think logically.
Quote:
Just not sure its a plan that is capable of winning in today's league. If your offense is predicated on the run, then you unquestionably need a top 5 defense both in yards and points. Think teams like the Bucs, Ravens, Jaguars of a couple of years ago.
Time will tell and I think the next qb choice will have a lot to say in where the Giants view themselves as a franchise.
I still don’t see why it’s all or nothing. It sounds to me like Gettleman wants to focus on the run and ToP, not abandon the pass. People need to take a step back and think logically.
Strong game makes Eli’s playaction even more effective ... everybody wins
Feed Saquon, get Shepard/Tate constant 1:1 matchups and let a yac-machine like Tate burn secondaries
It’s not 1995 anymore. “Basketball on grass” or quick striking offenses with speed all over the place is how you win in today’s NFL.
Would you rather have the 2018 Chiefs offense or the 2017 Jaguars offense?
DG’s mantra is more rooted in facts and results than this fantasy football, PFF garbage take.
Who has won a SB on the back of some high flying passing offense the last 20 years? The Rams? Anyone else?
Brady also had more INT than TD this postseason
Philly had the #3 rushing offense and #1 run defense in their SB year. Blake F’n Bortles was 1 quarter away from playing against Nick Foles in this super bowl ... which also included Case Keenum in the conference championship on the back of a top 10 run offense/defense.
So sick of this “pass first” nonsense. It’s still football.
You repeatedly post about the Jags and Blake Bortles. The year they went to the AFC Championship Game that defense was dominant and scored a freakish amount of defensive TDs if I recall. Last year, when the defense was still one of the best in the league (5th overall) but lacking those defensive TDs, they could no longer compete because Blake F'n Bortles was their QB and they couldn't score. One of the first things they did in the offseason was replace him. Without a good QB and passing game, all other facets of the team must be dominant in order to contend.
DG’s mantra is more rooted in facts and results than this fantasy football, PFF garbage take.
Who has won a SB on the back of some high flying passing offense the last 20 years? The Rams? Anyone else?
Off the top of my head - Packers, Saints, Colts. I'm sure there have been others - if not "high flying" then at least in the Top 10 in passing offense.
Quote:
Of “getting away from basketball on grass” or “hog mollies” or “ground and pound” despite the fact that the winning teams pass more and pass more efficiently is troubling.
It’s not 1995 anymore. “Basketball on grass” or quick striking offenses with speed all over the place is how you win in today’s NFL.
Would you rather have the 2018 Chiefs offense or the 2017 Jaguars offense?
DG’s mantra is more rooted in facts and results than this fantasy football, PFF garbage take.
Who has won a SB on the back of some high flying passing offense the last 20 years? The Rams? Anyone else?
The 2011 Giants were top 5 in YPA.
Quote:
In comment 14398137 lax counsel said:
Quote:
Just not sure its a plan that is capable of winning in today's league. If your offense is predicated on the run, then you unquestionably need a top 5 defense both in yards and points. Think teams like the Bucs, Ravens, Jaguars of a couple of years ago.
Time will tell and I think the next qb choice will have a lot to say in where the Giants view themselves as a franchise.
I still don’t see why it’s all or nothing. It sounds to me like Gettleman wants to focus on the run and ToP, not abandon the pass. People need to take a step back and think logically.
Strong game makes Eli’s playaction even more effective ... everybody wins
Feed Saquon, get Shepard/Tate constant 1:1 matchups and let a yac-machine like Tate burn secondaries
This also isn’t true, a strong running game doesn’t lead to more effective play action.
Parody is fun, isn’t it?
Isn’t it weird how 7 playoff teams ranked top 10 in rushing offense this year? Or that the SB featured 2 top 5 rushing teams (again)?
Must be a coincidence.
It's not hard to see, unless you don't want to or flat out refuse to.
It's not hard to see, unless you don't want to or flat out refuse to.
His plan might work well if it were 1985.
Although if they don't find a franchise QB, it won't matter what the rest of his plan is because he'll be fired long before the Giants are good again
Quote:
And every move he's made has been in accordance with that plan.
It's not hard to see, unless you don't want to or flat out refuse to.
His plan might work well if it were 1985.
Although if they don't find a franchise QB, it won't matter what the rest of his plan is because he'll be fired long before the Giants are good again
Worked pretty well for the last guys that believed that, from about 2005-2011.
Quote:
In comment 14398033 ajr2456 said:
DG’s mantra is more rooted in facts and results than this fantasy football, PFF garbage take.
Who has won a SB on the back of some high flying passing offense the last 20 years? The Rams? Anyone else?
Off the top of my head - Packers, Saints, Colts. I'm sure there have been others - if not "high flying" then at least in the Top 10 in passing offense.
The Colts defense carried them through the playoffs in 06. I don’t really remember the Packers and saints runs.
It’s ironic that the data supports DG’s take yet he gets shit on here and in the media for being an antiquated moron.
LII: 3rd vs 10th best rushing teams (PHI #1 run defense)
LI: 5th vs 7th best rushing teams (NE #3 run defense)
L: 2nd vs 17th best rushing teams (Denver, top 3 rushing defense)
XLIX: 1st vs 18th rushing teams (both top 10 rushing defense)
The last 5 SB’s have featured a top 5 rushing team in each matchup. It would appear running the ball, and stopping the run, just may still be fairly important - no matter how many “passing league” cliches get thrown around.
LII: 3rd vs 10th best rushing teams (PHI #1 run defense)
LI: 5th vs 7th best rushing teams (NE #3 run defense)
L: 2nd vs 17th best rushing teams (Denver, top 3 rushing defense)
XLIX: 1st vs 18th rushing teams (both top 10 rushing defense)
The last 5 SB’s have featured a top 5 rushing team in each matchup. It would appear running the ball, and stopping the run, just may still be fairly important - no matter how many “passing league” cliches get thrown around.
Once again you continue to ignore the context. Good teams run more at the end of the game because they have the lead. You pass to get the lead.
Post these teams passing to rushing TD ratio and get back to me.
Quote:
In comment 14398227 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
And every move he's made has been in accordance with that plan.
It's not hard to see, unless you don't want to or flat out refuse to.
His plan might work well if it were 1985.
Although if they don't find a franchise QB, it won't matter what the rest of his plan is because he'll be fired long before the Giants are good again
Worked pretty well for the last guys that believed that, from about 2005-2011.
The 2011 team wasn’t good at running the football and was a top 5 passing team.
The 2007 team it worked because of an elite pass rush, a secondary that stepped it up in the post season, and timely QB play.
I’m sorry, is this not a discussion board?
NFL GMs are never wrong? There’s a good number of people who think the Giants are headed in the wrong direction, but sure.
What goal posts did I move?
Quote:
OL + DL + QB = championship
It's worked 4 times and it will work again.
I think that's part of the issue they had with drafting a RB at #2 overall last yr in what was considered by many to be one of the best QB classes in a long time.
If it were OL + DL + RB = championship then that move would have made more sense. But as the article stated, if he really didn't believe in any of the QB's then passing on them is the smart move.
My personal biggest concern (and take this with a grain of salt) is that Gettleman really believed that "Eli had years left" and could still win a championship. If he really believed that (and made the decision at #2 b/c of it) then his QB evaluation skills are scary.
Let's cut to the chase.
This is just thread #3,167 from Josh lamenting not drafting a QB.
Time after fucking time. The same thing.
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What goal posts did I move?
The one where teams only pass to score then get good rushing stats only with the lead.
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In comment 14398399 UConn4523 said:
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.
What goal posts did I move?
The one where teams only pass to score then get good rushing stats only with the lead.
That’s not what I said regarding rushing stats. Rushing stats are inflated because of the end of game situations. Game flow matters.
I’m stating my opinion just like Gotham is, you don’t like it because you disagree. That’s fine.
Who cares about the first two Super Bowl wins? Those were 30+ years ago. Game plans were different. Players were built differently. Teams were constructed completely different. The linebacker position is night and day from what it was then.
It’s a different game.
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LIII: 3rd v 5th best rushing teams
LII: 3rd vs 10th best rushing teams (PHI #1 run defense)
LI: 5th vs 7th best rushing teams (NE #3 run defense)
L: 2nd vs 17th best rushing teams (Denver, top 3 rushing defense)
XLIX: 1st vs 18th rushing teams (both top 10 rushing defense)
The last 5 SB’s have featured a top 5 rushing team in each matchup. It would appear running the ball, and stopping the run, just may still be fairly important - no matter how many “passing league” cliches get thrown around.
Once again you continue to ignore the context. Good teams run more at the end of the game because they have the lead. You pass to get the lead.
Post these teams passing to rushing TD ratio and get back to me.
Rams (2nd most rushing TD, 8th most pass TD) vs. Patriots (4th most rushing TD, 11th most pass TD)
Both teams with 1st round RB on the roster too. Good night.
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In comment 14398402 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 14398399 UConn4523 said:
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What goal posts did I move?
The one where teams only pass to score then get good rushing stats only with the lead.
That’s not what I said regarding rushing stats. Rushing stats are inflated because of the end of game situations. Game flow matters.
I know exactly what you said. And it still is wrong.
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you’re preaching like you know better. I’m not a fan. You’re also ignoring FACTS that have been posted on this thread they doesn’t jive with your diatribe. Here’s some more for you, look at the Giants first two SB wins. Yes it was a different era, but they had excellent defenses with mediocre secondaries. It’s still a big man’s game and making the QB uncomfortable is STILL the best way to win.
I’m stating my opinion just like Gotham is, you don’t like it because you disagree. That’s fine.
Who cares about the first two Super Bowl wins? Those were 30+ years ago. Game plans were different. Players were built differently. Teams were constructed completely different. The linebacker position is night and day from what it was then.
It’s a different game.
The difference is i’m Using data rather than cliches and a fantasy-football mindset.
Top 5 rushing teams seem to still somehow make the SB every year ... it’s almost like it’s still beneficial. How’d teams get so far with Bortles/Keenum/Foles in 2017? Why’d 2 top 5 rushing teams with 1st round RBs make this SB this past season?
Run the ball
Stop the Run
Get to the QB
Change the culture in the locker room
Did all these meat head reporters miss all those pressers? There is no secret to his approach. Every move he has made has revolved around these principles.
He talks a good story but actions speak louder than words.
Our oline was ranked 15th against the run in 2017 .... 29th in 2018.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2017
Our two best run stoppers Collins and Snacks are no longer on the team
Our two best pass rushers JPP and Vernon are no longer on the team.
Culture doesn't win games. Michael Irvin stabbed a teammate in the neck but that team won 3 super bowls in four years.
https://www.theversed.com/10506/scissorgate-remembering-michael-irvin-nearly-stabbed-teammate-death/#.DLNbM4yDOc
It's great that you're so optimistic but I'll have to see results before I believe DG is anything other that a clown.
Sony Michel
2/3 games over 110 rushing yards; 6 rushing TDs
Passing league, clearly.
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In comment 14398339 GothamGiants said:
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LIII: 3rd v 5th best rushing teams
LII: 3rd vs 10th best rushing teams (PHI #1 run defense)
LI: 5th vs 7th best rushing teams (NE #3 run defense)
L: 2nd vs 17th best rushing teams (Denver, top 3 rushing defense)
XLIX: 1st vs 18th rushing teams (both top 10 rushing defense)
The last 5 SB’s have featured a top 5 rushing team in each matchup. It would appear running the ball, and stopping the run, just may still be fairly important - no matter how many “passing league” cliches get thrown around.
Once again you continue to ignore the context. Good teams run more at the end of the game because they have the lead. You pass to get the lead.
Post these teams passing to rushing TD ratio and get back to me.
Rams (2nd most rushing TD, 8th most pass TD) vs. Patriots (4th most rushing TD, 11th most pass TD)
Both teams with 1st round RB on the roster too. Good night.
You didn’t answer the question so I’ll do it for you:
2018: Rams 1.34:1, Pats 1.61:1
2017: Pats 2:1 passing td to rushing ratio, Eagles 4.2:1
2016: Falcons: 2:1, Pats 1.68:1
2015: Panthers: 1.84: Pats 2.56:1
2014: Pats 2.61:1, Seahawks 1:1
So the champions had
1.61:1
4.2:1
1.68:1
2.56:1
2.61:1
3 of the last 5 champions passed for more than a full TD more a game than they ran for. The Eagles had a grand total of 9 rushing TDS. Just spitting out rushing total yardage ignores the context behind the stats.
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In comment 14398425 Dave on the UWS said:
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you’re preaching like you know better. I’m not a fan. You’re also ignoring FACTS that have been posted on this thread they doesn’t jive with your diatribe. Here’s some more for you, look at the Giants first two SB wins. Yes it was a different era, but they had excellent defenses with mediocre secondaries. It’s still a big man’s game and making the QB uncomfortable is STILL the best way to win.
I’m stating my opinion just like Gotham is, you don’t like it because you disagree. That’s fine.
Who cares about the first two Super Bowl wins? Those were 30+ years ago. Game plans were different. Players were built differently. Teams were constructed completely different. The linebacker position is night and day from what it was then.
It’s a different game.
The difference is i’m Using data rather than cliches and a fantasy-football mindset.
Top 5 rushing teams seem to still somehow make the SB every year ... it’s almost like it’s still beneficial. How’d teams get so far with Bortles/Keenum/Foles in 2017? Why’d 2 top 5 rushing teams with 1st round RBs make this SB this past season?
The only data your using is total rushing yards. That’s box score scouting.
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Especially since he's said it over and over again.
Run the ball
Stop the Run
Get to the QB
Change the culture in the locker room
Did all these meat head reporters miss all those pressers? There is no secret to his approach. Every move he has made has revolved around these principles.
He talks a good story but actions speak louder than words.
Our oline was ranked 15th against the run in 2017 .... 29th in 2018.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2017
Our two best run stoppers Collins and Snacks are no longer on the team
Our two best pass rushers JPP and Vernon are no longer on the team.
Culture doesn't win games. Michael Irvin stabbed a teammate in the neck but that team won 3 super bowls in four years.
https://www.theversed.com/10506/scissorgate-remembering-michael-irvin-nearly-stabbed-teammate-death/#.DLNbM4yDOc
It's great that you're so optimistic but I'll have to see results before I believe DG is anything other that a clown.
Culture absolutely matters. Talk about using old data siting Michael Irvin. How about in today’s nfl where seasons are ruined with 1 bad egg?
DG cleaned house to get rid of bad contracts and improve culture. How anyone can say that was t the right thing to do is beyond me.
I love Murray. Jones I don't hate, but I certainly liked last years crop of QB's the giants had to pick from better than him.
Britt, the 2005-2011 teams had a terrific pass rush and a franchise QB. They also had the worst running game in the league in the regular season in 2011 and still made the playoffs because Eli stood on his head.
Running the ball is important, but it's a lot easier to find running backs than it is pass rushers or franchise QB's. Their plan is dead in the water without a pass rush and a QB.
If they can't get Murray I would load up on defense this year, take 2 pass rushers 1st 2 picks or a pass rusher and a corner. Then get QB in 2020.
Saquon is an awesome talent but each year the Giants suck and without a QB and a pass rush they will certainly continue to suck until they fill those holes his prime is being wasted. The way the Giants are going by the time they are good again Barkley will be wanting mega bucks and then his value significantly diminishes when he's making huge money. The Giants will have hit the lottery if his prime lasts more than 5 years. I fear a coach like Shurmur who will be fired if the Giants suck in 2019 running Barkley into the ground and shortening his shelf life even more.
I really have no idea why people expect the Giants to be even decent in 2019. People (and the GM) keep talking about culture. The Giants dont have a culture problem. They have a "one of the worst rosters talent wise in the entire league" problem. The most important positions on the field the Giants have below average talent, and that might be putting it kindly.
I was for trading Saquon because I think this team is further away from contending than all but one or two other teams in the league. I have zero interest in paying a running back huge money. I have a hard time seeing this team as a true contender until they get a franchise QB.
I want Murray or Josh Allen with the 1st pick. Then defense at 17.
What happened to the Jaguars this year? Their defense wasn’t as good, they were 28th in rushing ypg, and the QB couldn’t get it done.
The Jaguars defensive TO % dropped from 15.6% to 8%. The 2017 was propped up by a defense who benefited greatly from turnover luck, not the running game.
A well run team can afford to bring in cancers like Moss and Bennett and head cases like Gordon and Harrison.
In 42, our opening drive was a record long drive (incidentally breaking the ‘90 Giants record, same gameplay against the Bills but I digress). The Patriots offense didn’t touch the ball until near the 2nd quarter!
During 46, we owned the TOP by nearly 20 minute!
In 42, our opening drive was a record long drive (incidentally breaking the ‘90 Giants record, same gameplay against the Bills but I digress). The Patriots offense didn’t touch the ball until near the 2nd quarter!
During 46, we owned the TOP by nearly 20 minute!
You’re taking one game though. Each game is going to have its own game plan and game flow based on your strengths.
In 46 they passed the ball 41 times to 19 runs. They weren’t a good rushing team and got their on the strength of their passing game.
In 42 they ran the ball in the postseason:
22 times for 69
33 for 154
14 for 28
16 for 45.
They passed the ball 48 times to 16 runs in that Super Bowl.
What happened to the Jaguars this year? Their defense wasn’t as good, they were 28th in rushing ypg, and the QB couldn’t get it done.
The Jaguars defensive TO % dropped from 15.6% to 8%. The 2017 was propped up by a defense who benefited greatly from turnover luck, not the running game.
The rams 1st round RB carried them throughout the season and they got their ass kicked in the SB without him. Gurley averaged 130 total yards and 1+TD per game heading into the playoffs, I think he had something to do with their general success.
Speaking of “passing league”, Goff was awful in the playoffs with 1 TD, 2 INTs, and 2 games below 250 yards passing. “Passing league”, clearly.
You do realize mentioning the 2017 Jaguars (the NFLs #1 rushing offense and elite defense) further proves my point of how stupid the passing league cliche is, don’t you?
What happened this year? Parody, and Fournette missing half the season after getting banged up week 1 may have had something to do with it too.
Keep trying.
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You realize a big part of beating the Patriots in both Superbowls was keeping their offense off the field with long, sustained drives right? Running the ball, stopping the run, and rushing the passer played a huge part in winning both those games.
In 42, our opening drive was a record long drive (incidentally breaking the ‘90 Giants record, same gameplay against the Bills but I digress). The Patriots offense didn’t touch the ball until near the 2nd quarter!
During 46, we owned the TOP by nearly 20 minute!
You’re taking one game though. Each game is going to have its own game plan and game flow based on your strengths.
In 46 they passed the ball 41 times to 19 runs. They weren’t a good rushing team and got their on the strength of their passing game.
In 42 they ran the ball in the postseason:
22 times for 69
33 for 154
14 for 28
16 for 45.
They passed the ball 48 times to 16 runs in that Super Bowl.
In 2007 that was their overall philosophy. Jacobs and Bradshaw were plowing dudes with a power running game and setting the tone. Punishing running. Ask Woodson. It’s more than the stats.
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Barely played in the playoffs.
What happened to the Jaguars this year? Their defense wasn’t as good, they were 28th in rushing ypg, and the QB couldn’t get it done.
The Jaguars defensive TO % dropped from 15.6% to 8%. The 2017 was propped up by a defense who benefited greatly from turnover luck, not the running game.
The rams 1st round RB carried them throughout the season and they got their ass kicked in the SB without him. Gurley averaged 130 total yards and 1+TD per game heading into the playoffs, I think he had something to do with their general success.
Speaking of “passing league”, Goff was awful in the playoffs with 1 TD, 2 INTs, and 2 games below 250 yards passing. “Passing league”, clearly.
You do realize mentioning the 2017 Jaguars (the NFLs #1 rushing offense and elite defense) further proves my point of how stupid the passing league cliche is, don’t you?
What happened this year? Parody, and Fournette missing half the season after getting banged up week 1 may have had something to do with it too.
Keep trying.
The 2017 Jaguars were 8th in ypa, they were only the best in total rushing yards but they also had 47 more attempts than the Cowboys who were only 92 yards behind them. They in fact were not the best rushing team.
In 2007 that was their overall philosophy. Jacobs and Bradshaw were plowing dudes with a power running game and setting the tone. Punishing running. Ask Woodson. It’s more than the stats.
And in 2011 their overall philosophy wasn’t predicated on a good running game.
Irregardless of their overall philosophy it came down to their ability to pass the ball when it came to productive offensive play in the playoffs.