Really good article from The Ringer today. I know Gettleman has been trashed by many in the media for not having a cohesive plan in place. But maybe he does, even if most don't agree with it. The Ringer - ( New Window )
trying for balance. It fell off a cliff after that and we know the rest. As the lines went, the team went. That’s the story, and that’s what we’re finally correcting.
Coughlin did and said the same thing when he got here.
Injuries a cancer (culture, and country club mentality Fassel was running).
Game is still won at the LOS on both sides of the ball and that’s what we need to do to restore Giants pride, control the LOS and impose our will on the other team.
Different wording, same message. And it produced a golden era of Giants football, we won way more than we lost, and made the playoffs way more than not from 2005-2011 with that philosophy. Two championships. And oh yeah, Gettleman was here for that too.
If you're not going to have a franchise QB, you better have a dominant defense, a great offensive line, and a great running game.
They have a dreadful defense at almost every level, a mediocre line, and a very good running back.
You have very little margin for error when you don't have a franchise QB. The teams that are contenders year in and year out have franchise QB's.
Gettlemans plan won't work unless he gets a franchise QB. The previous regime left this roster in such awful shape at so many key positions that the alternative way to build a contender will take forever to accomplish, and he'll be out of a job before it happens if it ever does if he cant find a franchise QB
You have very little margin for error when you don't have a franchise QB. The teams that are contenders year in and year out have franchise QB's.
Gettlemans plan won't work unless he gets a franchise QB. The previous regime left this roster in such awful shape at so many key positions that the alternative way to build a contender will take forever to accomplish, and he'll be out of a job before it happens if it ever does if he cant find a franchise QB
This is exactly the point. The pressure for every other unit to be perfect increases the worse you are at passing the football.
It’s a very hard structure to replicate from year to year, see the Jaguars, because a chunk of being a good defense relies on turnover luck.
RE: RE: You know what’s not mentioned a lot here? Â
It will be this year or next. That in no way, shape, or form prevents them from building the team in that vision in the meantime. And the next guy will be better for it.
It will be this year or next. That in no way, shape, or form prevents them from building the team in that vision in the meantime. And the next guy will be better for it.
This is why I want to wait. They can really land some excellent talent on defense to build around Barkley (the “Dallas Model”) and pay what it takes to get their guy in a much better QB class ... best player available (defense) indirectly makes the QB transition easier
I really hope they bypass QB this year and land 2-3 elite defensive prospects. Give Lauretta a longer look, feed Saquon, reassess QB next year with a significantly more improved roster and a ton of cap space. This can be a very quick turnaround if they have as good a draft as last year. 2 strong drafts and a ton of cap room isn’t a bad place to groom the next QB
around a running back no matter who it is. That would be a horrendous plan. Building a team that way will mean by the time they are good Barkley will be commanding big money and towards the end of his prime years. You dont build a team around a position where the players prime if you hit the lottery starts his rookie year and is max 7 years. More likely 5.
Build around a QB and a pass rush. Im not for forcing a QB pick, but Gettleman cant keep punting on a QB because if he does he’ll be out of a job within a year or two because if this team sucks and they have no QB in place I find it hard to believe he will be the GM in 2020.
Do people really think this team has a chance to compete for a playoff spot next year? Even if the Giants have a great draft, I dont see any path to even be 8-8 in 2019.
Its not DG’s fault how bad this roster is, but top to bottom the only team in worse shape in my opinion are the Cardinals. Giants are more likely to be the worst team in the NFL in 2019 than they are to make the playoffs.
the Dallas model isnt a great model, and that model is also dependent on having a great offensive line. The Giants offensive line couldnt wipe Dallas offensive line from two years ago on their best day. That 2016 cowboys line not one lineman from this Giants team would start on. The only similarities between the two teams is that both have a great running game. It would take a couple more years of great drafting to get a line like that. And while I am not a big Dak guy, at this point he is a better QB than Eli.
I really dont know why anyone believes Eli at his age and the results we have seen from him last few years is capable of being a QB on a contender. Being average would be a stretch currently. And now he doesnt have Beckham. Sure, the line could be significantly better but hes also another year older. Hes not going to find the fountain of youth suddenly. Theres nothing wrong with a 38 year old QB being finished as a good player. Brees and Brady are exceptions
the lines, rely on rushing and good defense (necessarily, because you're not going to score much).
But I think we also need to acknowledge that in executing the plan, Gettleman:
-- drafted a RB high last year, despite the league realizing that RBs are pretty fungible. In addition, given that they are definately rebuilding, trading down would have made a ton more sense.
-- let his young, all pro safety walk with absolutely no compensation
-- traded one of the best offensive players in the game for minimal return, for stupid 'culture' reasons
-- goes into the season with one getting-older CB, a second year CB who hasn't played a down yet and bunch of JAGS
-- has a big "TBD" written next to EDGE on the depth chart
-- goes into the draft with a ton of picks but holes at the most important positions on the team (QB, EDGE, CB). He hasn't drafted poorly, but isn't it a bit much to ask him to fill out the positions every team wants in one draft?
We can like the plan, and question some of his moves.
the Dallas model isnt a great model, and that model is also dependent on having a great offensive line. The Giants offensive line couldnt wipe Dallas offensive line from two years ago on their best day. That 2016 cowboys line not one lineman from this Giants team would start on. The only similarities between the two teams is that both have a great running game. It would take a couple more years of great drafting to get a line like that. And while I am not a big Dak guy, at this point he is a better QB than Eli.
I really dont know why anyone believes Eli at his age and the results we have seen from him last few years is capable of being a QB on a contender. Being average would be a stretch currently. And now he doesnt have Beckham. Sure, the line could be significantly better but hes also another year older. Hes not going to find the fountain of youth suddenly. Theres nothing wrong with a 38 year old QB being finished as a good player. Brees and Brady are exceptions
Holy shit. You just explained your question in point 2 in your 1st point. Wow.
the lines, rely on rushing and good defense (necessarily, because you're not going to score much).
But I think we also need to acknowledge that in executing the plan, Gettleman:
-- drafted a RB high last year, despite the league realizing that RBs are pretty fungible. In addition, given that they are definately rebuilding, trading down would have made a ton more sense.
-- let his young, all pro safety walk with absolutely no compensation
-- traded one of the best offensive players in the game for minimal return, for stupid 'culture' reasons
-- goes into the season with one getting-older CB, a second year CB who hasn't played a down yet and bunch of JAGS
-- has a big "TBD" written next to EDGE on the depth chart
-- goes into the draft with a ton of picks but holes at the most important positions on the team (QB, EDGE, CB). He hasn't drafted poorly, but isn't it a bit much to ask him to fill out the positions every team wants in one draft?
We can like the plan, and question some of his moves.
Good post. I understand what you're saying. However, I don't like the plan mainly due to your 1st point but also the OBJ deal. With the #2 overall pick in the draft and numerous holes to fill, you don't draft an RB. You pick the QB (or even Q. Nelson or B. Chubb) or as you noted - trade down. It's likely one of the QB needy teams would have had interest in jumping in front of the Jets.
Gettleman picked a great player, likely the best player in the draft. I don't think it was the most effective use of that pick. I guess if you are a believer that the strong running game/game manager QB is the best way to win, you disagree with me. Give me the upper level QB and a decent RB any day. In both cases you need at least a good defense. However when going all in on the power football model you need a dominant defense not just a good one. The game has changed. You either adapt or remain a perennial also-ran.
The podcast guys, Lombardi and the other guys who’s name I have gladly forgotten, have actually become unlistenable to me (same with the NJ.com pod) because they’re relentless in criticizing DG and Eli. Aside the overt and unending criticism, I just don’t agree that “running backs don’t matter” or that defense isn’t important or that every team in the NFL should be built like the Chiefs. (Hey, did the Chiefs win the Super Bowl last year in The Ringerland?) I feel like a lot of these analytics guys and the media are more focused on Daftkings and their fantasy team than actual football. These Ringer guys spent most of last season tea bagging Sean McVay and Jared Goff. Again, not sure which Super Bowl they watched at The Ringer, but Goff didn’t look too good to me in any playoff game, certainly not special, and McVay was undressed for much of the NFC Championship game and all of the Super Bowl. So, I’m just not a fan of the Ringer crew.
Of course DG has a plan, and it’s been clear as day since the day he announced his plan. Will it work? I think so.
Injuries a cancer (culture, and country club mentality Fassel was running).
Game is still won at the LOS on both sides of the ball and that’s what we need to do to restore Giants pride, control the LOS and impose our will on the other team.
Different wording, same message. And it produced a golden era of Giants football, we won way more than we lost, and made the playoffs way more than not from 2005-2011 with that philosophy. Two championships. And oh yeah, Gettleman was here for that too.
If you're not going to have a franchise QB, you better have a dominant defense, a great offensive line, and a great running game.
They have a dreadful defense at almost every level, a mediocre line, and a very good running back.
You have very little margin for error when you don't have a franchise QB. The teams that are contenders year in and year out have franchise QB's.
Gettlemans plan won't work unless he gets a franchise QB. The previous regime left this roster in such awful shape at so many key positions that the alternative way to build a contender will take forever to accomplish, and he'll be out of a job before it happens if it ever does if he cant find a franchise QB
Injuries a cancer (culture, and country club mentality Fassel was running).
Those teams might have rivaled the 2019 Yankees in terms of injuries though.
Gettlemans plan won't work unless he gets a franchise QB. The previous regime left this roster in such awful shape at so many key positions that the alternative way to build a contender will take forever to accomplish, and he'll be out of a job before it happens if it ever does if he cant find a franchise QB
This is exactly the point. The pressure for every other unit to be perfect increases the worse you are at passing the football.
It’s a very hard structure to replicate from year to year, see the Jaguars, because a chunk of being a good defense relies on turnover luck.
Quote:
Coughlin did and said the same thing when he got here.
Injuries a cancer (culture, and country club mentality Fassel was running).
Those teams might have rivaled the 2019 Yankees in terms of injuries though.
And their “next man up” CULTURE still allowed them to be competitive and win championships despite that.
Quote:
In comment 14398546 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Coughlin did and said the same thing when he got here.
Injuries a cancer (culture, and country club mentality Fassel was running).
Those teams might have rivaled the 2019 Yankees in terms of injuries though.
And their “next man up” CULTURE still allowed them to be competitive and win championships despite that.
Not disagreeing.
This is why I want to wait. They can really land some excellent talent on defense to build around Barkley (the “Dallas Model”) and pay what it takes to get their guy in a much better QB class ... best player available (defense) indirectly makes the QB transition easier
I really hope they bypass QB this year and land 2-3 elite defensive prospects. Give Lauretta a longer look, feed Saquon, reassess QB next year with a significantly more improved roster and a ton of cap space. This can be a very quick turnaround if they have as good a draft as last year. 2 strong drafts and a ton of cap room isn’t a bad place to groom the next QB
Build around a QB and a pass rush. Im not for forcing a QB pick, but Gettleman cant keep punting on a QB because if he does he’ll be out of a job within a year or two because if this team sucks and they have no QB in place I find it hard to believe he will be the GM in 2020.
Do people really think this team has a chance to compete for a playoff spot next year? Even if the Giants have a great draft, I dont see any path to even be 8-8 in 2019.
Its not DG’s fault how bad this roster is, but top to bottom the only team in worse shape in my opinion are the Cardinals. Giants are more likely to be the worst team in the NFL in 2019 than they are to make the playoffs.
I would be thrilled to get Murray or Josh Allen.
I really dont know why anyone believes Eli at his age and the results we have seen from him last few years is capable of being a QB on a contender. Being average would be a stretch currently. And now he doesnt have Beckham. Sure, the line could be significantly better but hes also another year older. Hes not going to find the fountain of youth suddenly. Theres nothing wrong with a 38 year old QB being finished as a good player. Brees and Brady are exceptions
But I think we also need to acknowledge that in executing the plan, Gettleman:
-- drafted a RB high last year, despite the league realizing that RBs are pretty fungible. In addition, given that they are definately rebuilding, trading down would have made a ton more sense.
-- let his young, all pro safety walk with absolutely no compensation
-- traded one of the best offensive players in the game for minimal return, for stupid 'culture' reasons
-- goes into the season with one getting-older CB, a second year CB who hasn't played a down yet and bunch of JAGS
-- has a big "TBD" written next to EDGE on the depth chart
-- goes into the draft with a ton of picks but holes at the most important positions on the team (QB, EDGE, CB). He hasn't drafted poorly, but isn't it a bit much to ask him to fill out the positions every team wants in one draft?
We can like the plan, and question some of his moves.
I really dont know why anyone believes Eli at his age and the results we have seen from him last few years is capable of being a QB on a contender. Being average would be a stretch currently. And now he doesnt have Beckham. Sure, the line could be significantly better but hes also another year older. Hes not going to find the fountain of youth suddenly. Theres nothing wrong with a 38 year old QB being finished as a good player. Brees and Brady are exceptions
Holy shit. You just explained your question in point 2 in your 1st point. Wow.
But I think we also need to acknowledge that in executing the plan, Gettleman:
-- drafted a RB high last year, despite the league realizing that RBs are pretty fungible. In addition, given that they are definately rebuilding, trading down would have made a ton more sense.
-- let his young, all pro safety walk with absolutely no compensation
-- traded one of the best offensive players in the game for minimal return, for stupid 'culture' reasons
-- goes into the season with one getting-older CB, a second year CB who hasn't played a down yet and bunch of JAGS
-- has a big "TBD" written next to EDGE on the depth chart
-- goes into the draft with a ton of picks but holes at the most important positions on the team (QB, EDGE, CB). He hasn't drafted poorly, but isn't it a bit much to ask him to fill out the positions every team wants in one draft?
We can like the plan, and question some of his moves.
Good post. I understand what you're saying. However, I don't like the plan mainly due to your 1st point but also the OBJ deal. With the #2 overall pick in the draft and numerous holes to fill, you don't draft an RB. You pick the QB (or even Q. Nelson or B. Chubb) or as you noted - trade down. It's likely one of the QB needy teams would have had interest in jumping in front of the Jets.
Gettleman picked a great player, likely the best player in the draft. I don't think it was the most effective use of that pick. I guess if you are a believer that the strong running game/game manager QB is the best way to win, you disagree with me. Give me the upper level QB and a decent RB any day. In both cases you need at least a good defense. However when going all in on the power football model you need a dominant defense not just a good one. The game has changed. You either adapt or remain a perennial also-ran.
Of course DG has a plan, and it’s been clear as day since the day he announced his plan. Will it work? I think so.