Highly doubt it. Jones' college career was the epitome of making chicken shit out of chicken salad.
I think he is going to be a wonderful wonderful leader and player at the next level. A guy that knows he is not the most talented and defers to the strengths of his supporting cast. A guy the OL battles for. A guy who will dig out first downs and touchdowns that we're not supposed to get.
Haskins looks like he needs a terrific line and terrific weapons. I actually like him and he will generally have those weapons and line at the NFL level, but if he had to play a D like that '11 Niners team and took the beating Eli did, I think he would start dropping to the ground rather than hand in there or extend the play.
Haskins just hasn't played enough to know how to answer that question. Â
, but if he had to play a D like that '11 Niners team and took the beating Eli did, I think he would start dropping to the ground rather than hand in there or extend the play.
to be fair, that is the most courageous performance I've ever seen. so MOST QBs would have failed. this performance alone makes Eli immortal.
If you watch the Clemson game Jones was under extreme duress
Yet he kept a Duke team in the game by himself
The game was close for the first half
The Duke receivers dropped 5-6 passes at critical junctures
The pocket continually collapsed there were 4 passes blocked at the line
And I lost count of the sacks
if I had to guess I'd say no. Jones made a lot happen on his own. Plus reverse the situation would Jones do as well at Ohio as Haskins I'd saying probably yes.
has a lot of skills. And he is a more talented thrower of the ball than Jones.
So my guess is Cutcliffe would have done much more with Haskins.
The answer therefore is - Yes.
You keep saying this, and the fact is you have provided zero point zero factual evidence of this. Haskins played behind a far superior line, threw to far superior receivers and had a quick release system in which he thrived along with a strong running game.
Ive come to realize you negative nancy everything the Giants are favoring and I think you are a curmudgeon....a relentless one. The Giants think hes good. They have a coach who knows the position, an OC who also knows it very well and other teams think highly of him. But you know more definitively? Annoying and obnoxious.
they are NOT taking the most talented passer. I’m struggling with that. But as DG said, being QB in NY goes beyond physical gifts.
Excellent post. How many times have we said that while Peyton was the more productive QB, Eli is who you would prefer in a big game with the same personnel?
Haskins can't be good because he was surrounded by talent stuff. Pretty weak tea IMO. Wonder if we will hear the same about Tua and Trevor when they come out?
There is no guarantee Daniel Jones would have thrown 50 TDs if placed in that offense at Ohio St. ... Everyone is saying Haskins was a product of the system and the talent around him. Well, there have been a lot of great systems and talents in the Big 10 over the years and he's the only guy to ever throw 50 TDs (he beat Drew Brees's record). Not just any QB can step in and be a 50 TD QB no matter the system, coach, or talent around him.
I’ve linked a video of all TDs. Tell me honestly how many of those throws make you say “wow, this guy is our guy”
You’ll find yourself more impressed with Paris Campbell when you’re done watching.
I counted 4 impressive throws in the first 8 minutes ... whole lot of dump offs followed by his all star cast inflating his numbers. Haskins - ( New Window )
There is no guarantee Daniel Jones would have thrown 50 TDs if placed in that offense at Ohio St. ... Everyone is saying Haskins was a product of the system and the talent around him. Well, there have been a lot of great systems and talents in the Big 10 over the years and he's the only guy to ever throw 50 TDs (he beat Drew Brees's record). Not just any QB can step in and be a 50 TD QB no matter the system, coach, or talent around him.
That may be and probably is true. But the college game is very different than the pro game. Haskins played behind Barrett (Meyer system....no threat to be a real pro) and had a system that works at that level to get him through Big 10 competition (which hasnt been great recently).
Jones literally played the role Joe Kane from The Program for Duke.
I dont HATE Haskins, but I love the gamer that Jones can be. Smart, Tough, some wheels but not a runner....
That was the first job of every defense that Ohio State faced. Commit enough people to stopping the run or get run over. Then worry about the passing game.
RE: RE: RE: Haskins just hasn't played enough to know how to answer that question. Â
Is the only “remote thrower” I can think of at this point
There is absolutely nothing “special” about him - no doubt in my mind Jones would’ve put up prettier stats too.
He’s got a good arm. Cool. He’s accurate. Cool. He put up pretty stats with an NFL-lite offense playing inferior competition .... He is not carrying any NFL team to the promised land.
...I like all the QBs in this draft and find it very similar to last year's class of QBs. Each has things to like and be hopeful about and each has things that are concerning. If the Giants draft one, I hope that he becomes a good one and he will have my support from day one.
You keep saying this, and the fact is you have provided zero point zero factual evidence of this. Haskins played behind a far superior line, threw to far superior receivers and had a quick release system in which he thrived along with a strong running game.
#willgriercanhavemyrear
I keep saying what?
I've been anti-Haskins since Haskins declared. So I don't need you regurgitating thoughts I've been expressing about Haskins and his circumstances in Columbus since January.
Nevertheless, I dislike Jones more. And when I say dislike, I mean as a first round investment. If you don't think Haskins isn't a better thrower than Jones outside the hashes and deep than I'm not sure how to help you.
...I like all the QBs in this draft and find it very similar to last year's class of QBs. Each has things to like and be hopeful about and each has things that are concerning. If the Giants draft one, I hope that he becomes a good one and he will have my support from day one.
I like Jones’ overall skillset (size, arm, mobility, coaching, toughness)
I love Murray
I like Lock’s potential (Mahomes-lite if everything clicks)
...I like all the QBs in this draft and find it very similar to last year's class of QBs. Each has things to like and be hopeful about and each has things that are concerning. If the Giants draft one, I hope that he becomes a good one and he will have my support from day one.
I like Jones’ overall skillset (size, arm, mobility, coaching, toughness)
I love Murray
I like Lock’s potential (Mahomes-lite if everything clicks)
I see nothing special with Haskins
I like Haskins but I think another year of college ball would have really helped.
You keep saying this, and the fact is you have provided zero point zero factual evidence of this. Haskins played behind a far superior line, threw to far superior receivers and had a quick release system in which he thrived along with a strong running game.
#willgriercanhavemyrear
I keep saying what?
I've been anti-Haskins since Haskins declared. So I don't need you regurgitating thoughts I've been expressing about Haskins and his circumstances in Columbus since January.
Nevertheless, I dislike Jones more. And when I say dislike, I mean as a first round investment. If you don't think Haskins isn't a better thrower than Jones outside the hashes and deep than I'm not sure how to help you.
I was referencing your hatred for Jones. You keep saying he isnt a good QB yet he has been growing on the entire league and has more of the tools you look for at the NFL level. And you havent yet provided any evidence that Jones is worse at throwing outside or deep than Jones.
You are a wannabe. Ever since I started reading this board, you come off like a blowhard know-it-all...yet your hero, Grier, isnt even sniffing the first rpund.
You are a broken record and it pisses people off that they have to read you play the contrarian all the time despite what logic states.
Truth told, I dont think you have much of a clue at all and this is your stage for you to make like you know what youre talking about bw Central
to cast doubt on Haskins’ potential. I doubt there are more than a dozen people who post here who can provide a really informed opinion on the potential of any of these QBs, but others still are certain Haskins won’t cut it but Jones may. Based on what? Maybe Haskins doesn’t have the goods to be a top 10 pick, but the preference for Jones on BBI makes me wonder why.
they are NOT taking the most talented passer. I’m struggling with that. But as DG said, being QB in NY goes beyond physical gifts.
Excellent post. How many times have we said that while Peyton was the more productive QB, Eli is who you would prefer in a big game with the same personnel?
they are NOT taking the most talented passer. I’m struggling with that. But as DG said, being QB in NY goes beyond physical gifts.
Excellent post. How many times have we said that while Peyton was the more productive QB, Eli is who you would prefer in a big game with the same personnel?
they are NOT taking the most talented passer. I’m struggling with that. But as DG said, being QB in NY goes beyond physical gifts.
Excellent post. How many times have we said that while Peyton was the more productive QB, Eli is who you would prefer in a big game with the same personnel?
I’ll take the better passer 100 times out of 100.
And you would be wrong a lot of the time.
So, when we say "the better passer" are we talking about the guy who under ideal conditions and with receivers who run their routes with precision, perfect timing and the play transpires as it should? If so, Im not going to argue with you that Haskins might deliver a better ball under ideal conditions and when things go as planned.
But what happens when you play against Von Miller or Khalil Mack and an entire side of your pocket can cave in? Wouldnt you want a QB who can react and decide quickly to still make a play? Or would you prefer the guy who is unproven against that kind of duress? Or if youre up against Aaron Donald and he slips thru the center of your line, wouldnt it be nice to have a QB who can throw on the run or pick up 8-15 with his feet once the play breaks down?
I dont hate Haskins, but I think the NFL game might be too fast for him. He screams Elvis Grbac for me.
Another seer on BBI floats his knowledgeable majesty on a quarterback.
So far, fans of the guy have chimed in with what they like about him and, combined with his rise up draft boards. Meanwhile, there is a contingent on BBI that seems to know declaratively, that Jones sucks and the only thing they lean on is average production on a team with shitty receivers and line and arm strength which has been debunked as overstated multiple times.
Although frankly there are a few guys who keep repeating the same positive Jones mantras and negative Haskins mantras, that it's obvious they haven't worked their way through 3-4 whole game every throw tapes of Jones and Haskins to have even a vaguely accurate depiction of either one.
It makes me throw up in my mouth a little. Haskins is an NFL prospect as a starter. Jones is a career backup. That's based largely on arm talent vs lack of arm talent. You can't make chicken salad with chicken feathers, and Jones throws chicken wings.
I've said all I have to say about the eminently mediocre Jones Â
I'm sure you've seen them, since you obviously didn't just start posting this month.
But leaving your disingenuous bullshit aside.....in what way does Jones stand out from Ryan Finley? They are essentially the same player, except for the Cutcliffe slurping.
RE: I've said all I have to say about the eminently mediocre Jones Â
I'm sure you've seen them, since you obviously didn't just start posting this month.
But leaving your disingenuous bullshit aside.....in what way does Jones stand out from Ryan Finley? They are essentially the same player, except for the Cutcliffe slurping.
No....you really havent. Other than you hate his arm strength. He has a lot more command of the huddle, he plays with way morre instinct than Finley. Its evidenced in the UNC game. Yes, UNC was not a good team, but Jones ran for something like 250 yards in that game. I dont mind Finley, but I also think Jones throws a more timed and better ball than Finley.
The same guy who complains there is no “evidence” that Haskins has better arm talent than Jones now asserts that Jones has better “command” and “instincts” than Finley.
I guess he’s using this new tool from JUGS that can be pointed at a player and it measures command and instinct levels.
Cutcliffe makes every QB better ... it’s what he does best.
No comparison in talent surrounding the QBs ...
Adversity comes in different flavors ... the pressure of being on the big stage at OSU is just as tough as playing undermanned against Clemson.
All of these QBs are media hyped and overrated ...it happens every year.
For every Manning, there’s a guy named Leaf close behind.
This is a draft to go Defense at the top ...
There is no guarantee Daniel Jones would have thrown 50 TDs if placed in that offense at Ohio St. ... Everyone is saying Haskins was a product of the system and the talent around him. Well, there have been a lot of great systems and talents in the Big 10 over the years and he's the only guy to ever throw 50 TDs (he beat Drew Brees's record). Not just any QB can step in and be a 50 TD QB no matter the system, coach, or talent around him.
+1
As Billick has said - people look for reasons to try to justify their picks just as the question put forth here is designed to build up Jones. I do the same in justification.
Everyone knows Haskins is predominantly a pocket passer. That means if his line sucks he is going to suck. That's the negative of pocket passers.
But if his line is good -- the point those that are pro Haskins they think he'll be better than Jones because of his accuracy and arm. That's me.
I'm bias I dislike Jones immensely for rd 1. And if the line sucks like it did for Duke the Giants aren't going to win.
I would pass on both for the record beucause I think GMEN can get another.
RE: RE: The knots people will tie themselves into to pretend Jones is special Â
Although frankly there are a few guys who keep repeating the same positive Jones mantras and negative Haskins mantras, that it's obvious they haven't worked their way through 3-4 whole game every throw tapes of Jones and Haskins to have even a vaguely accurate depiction of either one.
It makes me throw up in my mouth a little. Haskins is an NFL prospect as a starter. Jones is a career backup. That's based largely on arm talent vs lack of arm talent. You can't make chicken salad with chicken feathers, and Jones throws chicken wings.
yesterday on Kiper and McShay were on and Kiper felt Jones was a very good prospect while McShay thought it possible Jones could develop into a solid starter but also thought he had the makings of backup QB.He felt Jones was more of a 2nd rd pick. Though maybe end of 1st rd for a team like NE. It juts highlights "evidence" on both sides.
I think he is going to be a wonderful wonderful leader and player at the next level. A guy that knows he is not the most talented and defers to the strengths of his supporting cast. A guy the OL battles for. A guy who will dig out first downs and touchdowns that we're not supposed to get.
Haskins looks like he needs a terrific line and terrific weapons. I actually like him and he will generally have those weapons and line at the NFL level, but if he had to play a D like that '11 Niners team and took the beating Eli did, I think he would start dropping to the ground rather than hand in there or extend the play.
to be fair, that is the most courageous performance I've ever seen. so MOST QBs would have failed. this performance alone makes Eli immortal.
Yet he kept a Duke team in the game by himself
The game was close for the first half
The Duke receivers dropped 5-6 passes at critical junctures
The pocket continually collapsed there were 4 passes blocked at the line
And I lost count of the sacks
I am not certain how any other QB would have done
Haskins:
https://youtu.be/aBIUc-EM2nQ
Jones:
https://youtu.be/fuclmr62Z5c
Hasn’t Murray pretty much played the same amount of games? Not sure why Haskins sample size is small, but Murray’s isn’t
Quote:
.
Hasn’t Murray pretty much played the same amount of games? Not sure why Haskins sample size is small, but Murray’s isn’t
One is an electrifying playmaker with a skillset rarely seen
The other is a chubby statue dumping off to NFL WRs
Quote:
.
Hasn’t Murray pretty much played the same amount of games? Not sure why Haskins sample size is small, but Murray’s isn’t
Excellent question! I wonder why more people don’t point this out.
So my guess is Cutcliffe would have done much more with Haskins.
The answer therefore is - Yes.
I really hit my head on the nail.
Under pressure, he probably would have been equally as bad, unless Cutliffe worked his magic.
So my guess is Cutcliffe would have done much more with Haskins.
The answer therefore is - Yes.
You keep saying this, and the fact is you have provided zero point zero factual evidence of this. Haskins played behind a far superior line, threw to far superior receivers and had a quick release system in which he thrived along with a strong running game.
Ive come to realize you negative nancy everything the Giants are favoring and I think you are a curmudgeon....a relentless one. The Giants think hes good. They have a coach who knows the position, an OC who also knows it very well and other teams think highly of him. But you know more definitively? Annoying and obnoxious.
#willgriercanhavemyrear
Excellent post. How many times have we said that while Peyton was the more productive QB, Eli is who you would prefer in a big game with the same personnel?
I’ve linked a video of all TDs. Tell me honestly how many of those throws make you say “wow, this guy is our guy”
You’ll find yourself more impressed with Paris Campbell when you’re done watching.
I counted 4 impressive throws in the first 8 minutes ... whole lot of dump offs followed by his all star cast inflating his numbers.
Haskins - ( New Window )
That may be and probably is true. But the college game is very different than the pro game. Haskins played behind Barrett (Meyer system....no threat to be a real pro) and had a system that works at that level to get him through Big 10 competition (which hasnt been great recently).
Jones literally played the role Joe Kane from The Program for Duke.
I dont HATE Haskins, but I love the gamer that Jones can be. Smart, Tough, some wheels but not a runner....
Quote:
In comment 14398353 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
.
Hasn’t Murray pretty much played the same amount of games? Not sure why Haskins sample size is small, but Murray’s isn’t
Excellent question! I wonder why more people don’t point this out.
There is absolutely nothing “special” about him - no doubt in my mind Jones would’ve put up prettier stats too.
He’s got a good arm. Cool. He’s accurate. Cool. He put up pretty stats with an NFL-lite offense playing inferior competition .... He is not carrying any NFL team to the promised land.
He better not be the pick
You keep saying this, and the fact is you have provided zero point zero factual evidence of this. Haskins played behind a far superior line, threw to far superior receivers and had a quick release system in which he thrived along with a strong running game.
#willgriercanhavemyrear
I keep saying what?
I've been anti-Haskins since Haskins declared. So I don't need you regurgitating thoughts I've been expressing about Haskins and his circumstances in Columbus since January.
Nevertheless, I dislike Jones more. And when I say dislike, I mean as a first round investment. If you don't think Haskins isn't a better thrower than Jones outside the hashes and deep than I'm not sure how to help you.
I like Jones’ overall skillset (size, arm, mobility, coaching, toughness)
I love Murray
I like Lock’s potential (Mahomes-lite if everything clicks)
I see nothing special with Haskins
Quote:
...I like all the QBs in this draft and find it very similar to last year's class of QBs. Each has things to like and be hopeful about and each has things that are concerning. If the Giants draft one, I hope that he becomes a good one and he will have my support from day one.
I like Jones’ overall skillset (size, arm, mobility, coaching, toughness)
I love Murray
I like Lock’s potential (Mahomes-lite if everything clicks)
I see nothing special with Haskins
I like Haskins but I think another year of college ball would have really helped.
WELL DUH !!!! what Quarterback doesnt ??
Quote:
You keep saying this, and the fact is you have provided zero point zero factual evidence of this. Haskins played behind a far superior line, threw to far superior receivers and had a quick release system in which he thrived along with a strong running game.
#willgriercanhavemyrear
I keep saying what?
I've been anti-Haskins since Haskins declared. So I don't need you regurgitating thoughts I've been expressing about Haskins and his circumstances in Columbus since January.
Nevertheless, I dislike Jones more. And when I say dislike, I mean as a first round investment. If you don't think Haskins isn't a better thrower than Jones outside the hashes and deep than I'm not sure how to help you.
I was referencing your hatred for Jones. You keep saying he isnt a good QB yet he has been growing on the entire league and has more of the tools you look for at the NFL level. And you havent yet provided any evidence that Jones is worse at throwing outside or deep than Jones.
You are a wannabe. Ever since I started reading this board, you come off like a blowhard know-it-all...yet your hero, Grier, isnt even sniffing the first rpund.
You are a broken record and it pisses people off that they have to read you play the contrarian all the time despite what logic states.
Truth told, I dont think you have much of a clue at all and this is your stage for you to make like you know what youre talking about bw Central
Quote:
they are NOT taking the most talented passer. I’m struggling with that. But as DG said, being QB in NY goes beyond physical gifts.
Excellent post. How many times have we said that while Peyton was the more productive QB, Eli is who you would prefer in a big game with the same personnel?
Only homer Giants fans think this.
Quote:
they are NOT taking the most talented passer. I’m struggling with that. But as DG said, being QB in NY goes beyond physical gifts.
Excellent post. How many times have we said that while Peyton was the more productive QB, Eli is who you would prefer in a big game with the same personnel?
I’ll take the better passer 100 times out of 100.
Quote:
In comment 14398406 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
they are NOT taking the most talented passer. I’m struggling with that. But as DG said, being QB in NY goes beyond physical gifts.
Excellent post. How many times have we said that while Peyton was the more productive QB, Eli is who you would prefer in a big game with the same personnel?
I’ll take the better passer 100 times out of 100.
And you would be wrong a lot of the time.
So, when we say "the better passer" are we talking about the guy who under ideal conditions and with receivers who run their routes with precision, perfect timing and the play transpires as it should? If so, Im not going to argue with you that Haskins might deliver a better ball under ideal conditions and when things go as planned.
But what happens when you play against Von Miller or Khalil Mack and an entire side of your pocket can cave in? Wouldnt you want a QB who can react and decide quickly to still make a play? Or would you prefer the guy who is unproven against that kind of duress? Or if youre up against Aaron Donald and he slips thru the center of your line, wouldnt it be nice to have a QB who can throw on the run or pick up 8-15 with his feet once the play breaks down?
I dont hate Haskins, but I think the NFL game might be too fast for him. He screams Elvis Grbac for me.
If after 2007 you asked me who I would prefer in a big game between the two, I absolutely would have taken Eli.
?????
Why did Wentz go to NDSU? Simms to Morehead St? McNair to Alcorn? Mahones to TT?
Awesome argument.
So far, fans of the guy have chimed in with what they like about him and, combined with his rise up draft boards. Meanwhile, there is a contingent on BBI that seems to know declaratively, that Jones sucks and the only thing they lean on is average production on a team with shitty receivers and line and arm strength which has been debunked as overstated multiple times.
But the lazy dipshit experts at BBI stike again.
Ahhhh.....more "I have no material to argue with so I will look at his registration and bail out with a dupe accusation."
Perhaps add more to your repertoire. God knows you add nothing to football threads.
LOL.
Although frankly there are a few guys who keep repeating the same positive Jones mantras and negative Haskins mantras, that it's obvious they haven't worked their way through 3-4 whole game every throw tapes of Jones and Haskins to have even a vaguely accurate depiction of either one.
It makes me throw up in my mouth a little. Haskins is an NFL prospect as a starter. Jones is a career backup. That's based largely on arm talent vs lack of arm talent. You can't make chicken salad with chicken feathers, and Jones throws chicken wings.
But leaving your disingenuous bullshit aside.....in what way does Jones stand out from Ryan Finley? They are essentially the same player, except for the Cutcliffe slurping.
But leaving your disingenuous bullshit aside.....in what way does Jones stand out from Ryan Finley? They are essentially the same player, except for the Cutcliffe slurping.
No....you really havent. Other than you hate his arm strength. He has a lot more command of the huddle, he plays with way morre instinct than Finley. Its evidenced in the UNC game. Yes, UNC was not a good team, but Jones ran for something like 250 yards in that game. I dont mind Finley, but I also think Jones throws a more timed and better ball than Finley.
I look forward to Sy's rankings.
I guess he’s using this new tool from JUGS that can be pointed at a player and it measures command and instinct levels.
No comparison in talent surrounding the QBs ...
Adversity comes in different flavors ... the pressure of being on the big stage at OSU is just as tough as playing undermanned against Clemson.
All of these QBs are media hyped and overrated ...it happens every year.
For every Manning, there’s a guy named Leaf close behind.
This is a draft to go Defense at the top ...
And they wouldn’t make the Final Four.
Name one without the last name Manning.
+1
As Billick has said - people look for reasons to try to justify their picks just as the question put forth here is designed to build up Jones. I do the same in justification.
Everyone knows Haskins is predominantly a pocket passer. That means if his line sucks he is going to suck. That's the negative of pocket passers.
But if his line is good -- the point those that are pro Haskins they think he'll be better than Jones because of his accuracy and arm. That's me.
I'm bias I dislike Jones immensely for rd 1. And if the line sucks like it did for Duke the Giants aren't going to win.
I would pass on both for the record beucause I think GMEN can get another.
Quote:
are hilarious
LOL.
Although frankly there are a few guys who keep repeating the same positive Jones mantras and negative Haskins mantras, that it's obvious they haven't worked their way through 3-4 whole game every throw tapes of Jones and Haskins to have even a vaguely accurate depiction of either one.
It makes me throw up in my mouth a little. Haskins is an NFL prospect as a starter. Jones is a career backup. That's based largely on arm talent vs lack of arm talent. You can't make chicken salad with chicken feathers, and Jones throws chicken wings.
yesterday on Kiper and McShay were on and Kiper felt Jones was a very good prospect while McShay thought it possible Jones could develop into a solid starter but also thought he had the makings of backup QB.He felt Jones was more of a 2nd rd pick. Though maybe end of 1st rd for a team like NE. It juts highlights "evidence" on both sides.