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We could have a good defense

thomasa510 : 4/22/2019 10:16 pm
If Gettleman goes heavy on defense early this draft we can have the basis of a really solid defense in a couple of years. I’m picturing an edge rusher and linebacker in round 1, another defensive front 7 pick in round 2, and some cornerback depth in later rounds.

If these players work out, combined with the three young pieces we have on our d currently, the defense can be a real strength in a year or so.

The way to build a team is to draft a solid base and supplement with the occasional free agent. We can build the foundation of a solid defense this year. If we hit on a mid round o-line player or receiver we can get good quickly.
Some of it  
Jay in Toronto : 4/22/2019 10:18 pm : link
Will depend on Beal working out, especially if we don't get another CB capable of starting. Worries me.
RE: Some of it  
eric2425ny : 4/22/2019 10:19 pm : link
In comment 14398570 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
Will depend on Beal working out, especially if we don't get another CB capable of starting. Worries me.


Our CB situation could be scary.
Beal is the wildcard  
GothamGiants : 4/22/2019 10:26 pm : link
I liked what I saw in the slot with Haley at CB ... Jenkins is fine. I expect a couple mid/late round DBs added.

Bethea/Peppers is going to improve coverage dramatically. I don’t think a secondary of Bethea, Peppers, Jenkins, Beal, Haley is the destitute wasteland some fear. Beal has a ton of talent, although I expect competition brought in. I do like Haley, a lot.

DL has 2 solid young players in Tomlinson/Hill. I’m fine with Ogletree and Carter at LB ...

A guy like Wilkins + Bush/Jaylon Ferguson and this defense has a lot of potential. This team gave away half of their games because of the defense, and this draft is beyond loaded with elite talent on that side of the ball. Address it, early and often.

Feed Barkley, continue to build the OL, improve the defense ... playoffs?
Right now,  
Nine-Tails : 4/22/2019 10:27 pm : link
The defense is awful, thin everywhere. If he hits on his defensive picks, you could see a defense ranking in the late teens, early twenties with a strong outlook for the future.
RE: Right now,  
GothamGiants : 4/22/2019 10:32 pm : link
In comment 14398586 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
The defense is awful, thin everywhere. If he hits on his defensive picks, you could see a defense ranking in the late teens, early twenties with a strong outlook for the future.


This team could’ve been 9-7 last year with a middle of the road defense

They should be using this draft to stockpile elite talent (and depth) on the defense. This team has been “top heavy” for way too long ... cant wait for this draft
Guys  
allstarjim : 4/22/2019 10:37 pm : link
If the Giants get new players that are actually good then we can have a good defense.

News at 11.
RE: RE: Right now,  
crooza172 : 4/22/2019 10:38 pm : link
In comment 14398590 GothamGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14398586 Nine-Tails said:


Quote:


The defense is awful, thin everywhere. If he hits on his defensive picks, you could see a defense ranking in the late teens, early twenties with a strong outlook for the future.



This team could’ve been 9-7 last year with a middle of the road defense

They should be using this draft to stockpile elite talent (and depth) on the defense. This team has been “top heavy” for way too long ... cant wait for this draft


I disagree with this. The defense hung in every game and the. Buckled when the offense couldn’t do anything late in games.
Remember a couple years ago  
theold5j : 4/22/2019 10:43 pm : link
Dallas was supposed to have the worst defense in the history of the NFL when they season started. Picked last everywhere. They won 13 games that year
A good pass rush  
GiantsRage2007 : 4/22/2019 10:52 pm : link
Forgives a lot of sins in the secondary.

Go big on D up front in the draft.
RE: RE: RE: Right now,  
Nine-Tails : 4/22/2019 10:54 pm : link
In comment 14398598 crooza172 said:
Quote:
In comment 14398590 GothamGiants said:


Quote:


In comment 14398586 Nine-Tails said:


Quote:


The defense is awful, thin everywhere. If he hits on his defensive picks, you could see a defense ranking in the late teens, early twenties with a strong outlook for the future.



This team could’ve been 9-7 last year with a middle of the road defense

They should be using this draft to stockpile elite talent (and depth) on the defense. This team has been “top heavy” for way too long ... cant wait for this draft



I disagree with this. The defense hung in every game and the. Buckled when the offense couldn’t do anything late in games.


Agree with this, as the offense was anemic for the 1st half of the year leading to 1-7. DG jettisons pieces off the defense and with the season all but over, you see the defense collapse the second half of the year. Games in September and October count the same.
I think we'll make a start at it this year, but I'm not sure we can do  
yatqb : 4/22/2019 11:08 pm : link
it and also land a QB of the future.

Let's say we land someone like Wilkins at 6, Bush at 17, and Winovich at 37. That's a darn nice start.
I think there's a good chance...  
Tesla : 4/22/2019 11:11 pm : link
we'll have the worst defense in the league. We have gaping holes all over the defense and zero depth anywhere.

Some fans are really delusional about the state of our defense.
Last year  
SLIM_ : 4/22/2019 11:33 pm : link
The defense wasn't the 'visually apparent' issue early last year but I think it was a mirage. Most of the time, they came up small at any important time of the game. About the time, Snacks and Apple got traded and they couldn't stop anyone.

Looking at the draft, we can easily come up with 3 starters on defense if we focus on that. Add that to Golden, Peppers, Bethea and Beal and we are going to look a lot different and one can be optimistic. It may come down to rounds 4 through 6 to see if they can add some depth. (I left out round 3 as I think we add an OL and that would be a nice spot.)
much  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/22/2019 11:39 pm : link
depends on Markus Golden.
RE: Beal is the wildcard  
SirYesSir : 4/22/2019 11:40 pm : link
In comment 14398584 GothamGiants said:
Quote:
I liked what I saw in the slot with Haley at CB ... Jenkins is fine. I expect a couple mid/late round DBs added.

Bethea/Peppers is going to improve coverage dramatically. I don’t think a secondary of Bethea, Peppers, Jenkins, Beal, Haley is the destitute wasteland some fear. Beal has a ton of talent, although I expect competition brought in. I do like Haley, a lot.

DL has 2 solid young players in Tomlinson/Hill. I’m fine with Ogletree and Carter at LB ...

A guy like Wilkins + Bush/Jaylon Ferguson and this defense has a lot of potential. This team gave away half of their games because of the defense, and this draft is beyond loaded with elite talent on that side of the ball. Address it, early and often.

Feed Barkley, continue to build the OL, improve the defense ... playoffs?


God forbid anybody gets hurt.

**newsflash** corners always get hurt
RE: RE: Beal is the wildcard  
ajr2456 : 4/22/2019 11:45 pm : link
In comment 14398659 SirYesSir said:
Quote:
In comment 14398584 GothamGiants said:


Quote:


I liked what I saw in the slot with Haley at CB ... Jenkins is fine. I expect a couple mid/late round DBs added.

Bethea/Peppers is going to improve coverage dramatically. I don’t think a secondary of Bethea, Peppers, Jenkins, Beal, Haley is the destitute wasteland some fear. Beal has a ton of talent, although I expect competition brought in. I do like Haley, a lot.

DL has 2 solid young players in Tomlinson/Hill. I’m fine with Ogletree and Carter at LB ...

A guy like Wilkins + Bush/Jaylon Ferguson and this defense has a lot of potential. This team gave away half of their games because of the defense, and this draft is beyond loaded with elite talent on that side of the ball. Address it, early and often.

Feed Barkley, continue to build the OL, improve the defense ... playoffs?



God forbid anybody gets hurt.

**newsflash** corners always get hurt


Especially Giants corners.

Don’t play WR, CB or LB for the Giants if you want to be healthy
RE: Last year  
Nine-Tails : 4/22/2019 11:45 pm : link
In comment 14398652 SLIM_ said:
Quote:
The defense wasn't the 'visually apparent' issue early last year but I think it was a mirage. Most of the time, they came up small at any important time of the game. About the time, Snacks and Apple got traded and they couldn't stop anyone.

Looking at the draft, we can easily come up with 3 starters on defense if we focus on that. Add that to Golden, Peppers, Bethea and Beal and we are going to look a lot different and one can be optimistic. It may come down to rounds 4 through 6 to see if they can add some depth. (I left out round 3 as I think we add an OL and that would be a nice spot.)


In the 2nd half of the year, they couldn't make the key stop many times. But in the first half the defense kept the game close but the offense never did anything. The only game was the Carolina game, when the refs screwed us and the kicker hit a 60+ yard fg.
On paper this is a horrible defense  
larryflower37 : 4/22/2019 11:59 pm : link
Not one plus type player on the depth chart.
Take the Rose color glasses off.
This is a 2 or 3 year build at minimum.
...  
christian : 4/23/2019 12:12 am : link
Jenoris Jenkins was atrocious last year. By no measure was he OK.
I think it's going to take 2 years to get a really good d. Depending  
Ira : 4/23/2019 5:30 am : link
on what happens this week-end, we'll see some improvement, but there are too many holes to fill and we have some needs on offense to fill as well.
We must be able to stop the run.....first  
George from PA : 4/23/2019 5:42 am : link
Lets start with one of the first truths.....

If we can stop the run....then there is hope that they can stop drives. 3rd and short is impossible to stop.

Preventing passes is far more complicated

Pressuring the passer
Covering WR
Covering RBs and TEs
Disrupting passing routes
Preventing QBs from extending plays and running for 1st downs
The defense is lacking  
hitdog42 : 4/23/2019 6:00 am : link
2 d linemen, 2 linebackers (edge and middle), and 2
Corners- and a 3rd safety.

Say the draft breaks their way early
They take Allen at 6 and get a good corner at the top of the 2nd ... and get lucky and get a d linemen in middle rounds like hill that pans out.

The d would be moving in the right direction, but based on last year we are still making a lot of assumptions to believe this unit can be good- young with upside? Yes. But to be good one would assume carter and peppers make big leaps, beal is healthy, Tomlinson and hill improve, and the rookies play well. And the vets perform. I’m hopeful but also confident there are a ton of assumptions —- projecting the oline to be better and much improved is a much easier projection

With the expectation that defense is the focus  
Diver_Down : 4/23/2019 6:17 am : link
of the draft especially with the early picks, then there should be no more excuses for Bettcher. Veterans (Hill, Carter, Tomlinson, Golden, Jenkins, Bethea, Peppers, Ogletree, etc.) should be a steadying influence to the rookies. No one should be expecting the '85 Bears, but we also shouldn't be fielding the worst unit in the league. If there is no improvement, then Bettcher should be on the hot seat.
RE: The defense is lacking  
WillVAB : 4/23/2019 7:02 am : link
In comment 14398744 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
2 d linemen, 2 linebackers (edge and middle), and 2
Corners- and a 3rd safety.

Say the draft breaks their way early
They take Allen at 6 and get a good corner at the top of the 2nd ... and get lucky and get a d linemen in middle rounds like hill that pans out.

The d would be moving in the right direction, but based on last year we are still making a lot of assumptions to believe this unit can be good- young with upside? Yes. But to be good one would assume carter and peppers make big leaps, beal is healthy, Tomlinson and hill improve, and the rookies play well. And the vets perform. I’m hopeful but also confident there are a ton of assumptions —- projecting the oline to be better and much improved is a much easier projection


They don’t need all of that to field a good defense.
well  
hitdog42 : 4/23/2019 7:13 am : link
if beal isnt healthy and performing... they have 1 corner.
if Carter and Hill dont take another step- the pass rush struggles to improve. If peppers doesnt take a leap- hes not an improvement over collins. if they dont draft defense, they have no depth.

so yes they do need these things.... and yes they are all possible and I am hopeful... but I'm not going to just assume that a bad defense that swaps collins, snacks, and vernon for goulden, peppers and bethea is just naturally going to be a good defense.

it needs a bunch of things to happen
Un  
thomasa510 : 4/23/2019 7:16 am : link
When I started this thread I indicated that it would be a two year build. Building a foundation this year and adding some additional parts next.

My point was that we have about three pieces currentlynon the team and adding heavy to it this year can turn a major liability into an excellent defense quickly.
RE: Un  
hitdog42 : 4/23/2019 7:22 am : link
In comment 14398773 thomasa510 said:
Quote:
When I started this thread I indicated that it would be a two year build. Building a foundation this year and adding some additional parts next.

My point was that we have about three pieces currentlynon the team and adding heavy to it this year can turn a major liability into an excellent defense quickly.


the team needs game wreckers. even nailing just one would be huge- currently there are some solid players but no game wreckers. hopefully at 6 they get one, or we see a guy like carter or peppers really take a leap and become one, or hill.

agree that a good draft moves this in the right direction but its still very much a work in progress
RE: Right now,  
Brown_Hornet : 4/23/2019 7:25 am : link
In comment 14398586 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
The defense is awful, thin everywhere. If he hits on his defensive picks, you could see a defense ranking in the late teens, early twenties with a strong outlook for the future.

So you're saying if he hits on his defensive picks the defense will get worse?
The key phrase in the OP - in a couple years  
ron mexico : 4/23/2019 7:32 am : link
I wouldn't expect too much this year
Defenses are build from the LOS...  
BamaBlue : 4/23/2019 7:46 am : link
The problem is that the Giants have neglected Defensive Ends (edge rushers) and been incompetent in fielding linebackers for too long. The secondary can't hid a weak front 7.
Depends on the draft  
Beer Man : 4/23/2019 7:59 am : link
With the moves so far it has improved, but without more help rushing the passer and at CB I think this D will once again be very challenged.
Some of you guys are way to negative  
ZogZerg : 4/23/2019 8:05 am : link
If they can get a "game changer" at 6, that will help the entire D. Add in two "starters" to the D will help out significantly. We aren't going to be the 86 Bears anytime soon, we just need to improve enough to be able to make a late stop every now and then.
The Giants need six things to happen:  
Klaatu : 4/23/2019 8:06 am : link
1. A good draft. They need to find a couple of players who can provide an immediate impact on defense, on at least two out of three levels.

2. No sophomore blues. No regression on the part of their second-year guys. Hill, Carter, McIntosh...even Beal.

3. Veterans can't coast. From new arrivals to players who have been around for a couple of years, show some pride, lead by example.

4. Stay healthy. The best ability and all that, especially for a team that lacks quality depth. Probably the most important factor for determining success or failure.

5. The offense needs to be more efficient. Running or passing, they need to move the chains, keep drives alive, and score TD's in the red zone. Do that, and you take a ton of pressure off your defense.

6. Special Teams must play well, punt and kick coverage specifically, and win the field position battle. Every little yard helps.
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