A few posters have recommended that I make this more obvious.
BBI depends on (1) ad revenue and (2) a 2-month contribution campaign (August-September) that usually receives contributions from a few hundred readers.
One of the reasons I have had to add new ads is that I need to increase revenue. It's not a case of me being "greedy" but simple reality.
If you use an ad blocker and can select which sites you can block or not, please consider turning it off for BBI.
I do not allow intrusive ads (i.e., overlays, pop-ups, take-over, auto-sound, etc.). If you compare BBI with even other MSM sites, we tend to be more surfer friendly.
If ad revenue increases from people shutting off ad blocking software, I can decrease the number of ads. At the very least, I won't have to increase the number of ads, which becomes a destructive circle.
Thank you for your consideration.
The Corner Forum coding is home grown. There is no mobile version without re-writing from scratch.
The two "better" examples suggested last night by other posters don't appeal to me. I asked for reaction to them from other posters and it was negative. I am open to considering mobile-friendly options if someone can show me an attractive example.
What I'm proposing would be some CSS and HTML work, not switching to another packaged solution. The Corner Forum being "home grown coding" actually works in your favor to make said changes.
The solution is "responsive web design." When you visit a site like Politico on a desktop browser at full width, you see a 3 column layout with some links in the header. If you adjust the browser window and shrink it down horizontally, you can see how the layout changes in response: it goes from 3 columns to 2, then 2 columns to a single column (with all the header links getting moved inside the hamburger menu icon). That final single column layout is what you'd see if you were visiting the site on mobile.
Essentially there's an optimal layout for any browser size. Your desktop users would just continue to see what you have now.
It'd be up to you how far you'd want to take making your site mobile friendly: something like Politico would be more CSS work and probably some template changes, but I think the forum could benefit from even just some minor CSS tweaks (limiting the size of the the giant image uploads, moving the thread sidebar to the top or bottom of the thread comments on mobile, larger add comment button on mobile etc.).
If Gary knows a front end guy/designer, they should know how to do that pretty easily. I'm a front end developer myself and I could take a look at some of the low hanging fruit in my free time if you're interested. Let me know.
I still get ads blocking postings when I use Firefox... when I use chrome I have no problem...
I'm testing Google auto ads (in-article). From what I can tell, only on mobile devices, it can place two ads within the middle of threads.
The interface can always be updated to enhance with the feel. Personally, ive enabled ads to help with the revenue and have no issues on my laptop. The problems I have are with the iPad and mobile where ads become a burden and show-ups across threads.
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I just noticed this in one of my replies and sent an email about it. However, I just saw the same thing in another thread. Maybe I haven't been paying close enougn attention, but I don't recall seeing ads within threads on the corner forum before.
I'm testing Google auto ads (in-article). From what I can tell, only on mobile devices, it can place two ads within the middle of threads.
Got it. Thanks.
Totally understand the need to generate revenue, so no complaints on my end :)
Happy to support Eric with donations and accepting ads on this website.
Found that I can see the ads on my phone. Will try to visit on my phone daily just for the ads.
The ads at the top of the threads (on the right side) do -- both on my Android and PC. Chrome is my browser in both.
2. a New Forum and or modification of the existing. Talking as an IT guy, I always recommend vendor software to reduce the spot we are currently in, someone inherited Pete's mistakes ( If you've been here long enough, you'll get the reference). If you have vendor type software bugs and upgrades are someone else's problem to help maintain and most likely have the web and mobile thing sorted out already.
If you are serious about looking at other software, maybe set up a team of folks to define the needs and wants for BBI and look at some of the packaged software and build a beta site to have some others test -- there are a lot of "power users" here that can probably help do that testing for usage and ideas for improvement.
I played with phpBB a little and it is a pretty vanilla forum that is open-source. They will let you modify it for an hour or so so you can see all the features and stuff. There are some features on there we've seen talked about in the past about new users posting, you can turn off all the emoticons and such and have a decent look and feel, but might have some faults you don't think can be overcome.
The only ad networks I use are Google and USA Today. If they are selling you brides...
There really is no excuse.
There really is no excuse.
We've been using WordPress on the front end for years and years.
I do feel bad as I know how ads work but I just didn't think about it. My ad-blocker is on by default for my computer's protection. I just never thought to turn it off for BBI.
Also, I think enough people have pestered Eric about upgrading the site. I'm ok with whatever he decides to do. I'll continue to offer up suggestions here and there but I am happy with the site how Eric wants it to be. Personally, I think part of the problem is migrating over current user data (usernames, thread history, et). I would hate to have to lose all the historical information. I look up how long a person has been a member here quite often.
I have one other recommendation. Can you just have a donate option available all the time?
Regardless, there is a BBI shop that if used should kick some percentage to Eric and BBI. Looks like some great Giants' merchandise there. Outside of that, please disable your ad blocker for this site and click on a *cough* every now and then when you visit.
Eric a quick question. If I go to Amazon via your BBI shop link to do my Amazon shopping, do you get a cut? I apologize if you have to answer my question by saying you can't answer my question.
We are an affiliate of the three companies listed under the BBI shop tab, including Amazon. If you buy something from Amazon via the BBI portal, it does not impact your price, but a small cut goes to BBI.
We are an affiliate of the three companies listed under the BBI shop tab, including Amazon. If you buy something from Amazon via the BBI portal, it does not impact your price, but a small cut goes to BBI.
Well hell. Another thing I could have been doing earlier to help out. I'm a prime member. I'll have to tell the wife how she will get to Amazon Prime from now on as well.
The CSS for this site is not great. I've been adding fixes on top of fixes for years. I need to strip it down and start from scratch.
Also, the HTML for the thread view is kind of borked. I made some changes a while ago to fix problems with broken ads and it's not really an optimal solution.
Lastly, and actually most important, the database code uses some deprecated functions. I need to rip those out and use the more modern functions so we can move to PHP 7.* and get some more security and speed.
None of this stuff is rocket science. I just need to get enough ahead of my other client work to devote a couple days to it.
Over the previous 365 days, this forum has had nearly 900,000 users and over 40 million page views.
We're very much alive.
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Stop reinventing the wheel. Forums are a dead media form. Just use an existing platform.
Over the previous 365 days, this forum has had nearly 900,000 users and over 40 million page views.
We're very much alive.
With that traffic I bet a decent chunk of revenue is getting eaten by ad blockers.
I suspect with the investments in the code you've described above -- the site would very easily qualify for the acceptable ad criteria.
If you're not familiar-- in a nutshell, well laid out and labeled ads can be whitelisted by the popular ad blockers. Most users aren't worried about ads, just the intrusive or obnoxious variety. The blocking tools have evolved to let fair, normal ads appear for users who normally reject them.
In my view with just some simple layout upgrades this site is good to go and doesn't need the obnoxious off the shelf features other abysmal sites leverage.
Nothing would be worse than going this direction.
Link - ( New Window )
Pretty much all ads are these days.
I use an ad blocker for most sites, so when I visit sites where I turn it off, like BBI, the ads are often creepily targeted and specific.
The most popular thread of this kind was one from three years ago about sweet 16 gifts.
All in all, it's only a couple percent of our traffic, but it's not nothing.
I donate every year and I am glad to do it. BBI keeps me current on the team I love.
Eric - Why not just charge a fee? If all the registered users paid monthly, say the cost of a Starbucks mocha, I would expect the site would be well paid for.
Bonus - Paying keeps the riff-raff from registering under a new anonymous monicker monthly and endlessly stirring up shit...
The most popular thread of this kind was one from three years ago about sweet 16 gifts.
All in all, it's only a couple percent of our traffic, but it's not nothing.
This explains some of why you don't want to upgrade to one of the more popular boards. Thanks. I'm actually quite curious about it. I still say the toughest task to upgrading the board (maybe the whole site) to something more current would be transferring a members' historical information.
Rather than patchwork to out-dated technology I think at some point BBI should bite the bullet and get current with the technology. I'd setup a BBI Site B that allows plenty of time for users to transfer over. I'd say 2 - 3 months. If you can't transfer the historical information over for them you can perhaps giver users the ability to input some information themselves such as their previous BBI alias if someone stole their current one. Manually transferring the profile data over would take a very long time. Maybe you could get some trusted volunteers to help. It would be a daunting and scary thing to make the switch. I know you don't want to lose members over it but I think it's the quality of many of the posters here and the site owner, moderators, content providers, etc that makes it so greaat. I don't think they will quit on BBI.
At the very least you should try a site B just to see if people take to it. I would recommend phpBB for the board. You can turn off the bells and whistles you don't like. It's free. People think the free boards get hacked but phpBB hasn't been hacked since before version 3.0 and that came out in 2007. Most apps, programs, extensions, etc are designed to work with the other popular or common apps, programs, extensions, etc. and phpBB has been around for a long time. It's still the most popular free forum out there and just as capable as the pay for version IMHO. It has plenty of extensions and very supportive community in it's own right.
“In the end, it is important to remember that we cannot become what we need to be, by remaining what we are.”
― Max Depree, Leadership Is an Art
That being said, I will continue to come here regardless and support BBI as best I can within my means. Keep up the great work.
If the site cannot provide an adequate income stream from subscription fees at some level, then perhaps it should not survive. As things stand, advertisers are likely sooner or later to insist that BBI prevent users from gaining access to its content without turning off their ad blockers. What then? We can only guess, Eric.
I would prefer to pay a fee. I am not going to put up with ads. I love BBI, but not enough to be bothered by ads. Sorry!
If the site cannot provide an adequate income stream from subscription fees at some level, then perhaps it should not survive. As things stand, advertisers are likely sooner or later to insist that BBI prevent users from gaining access to its content without turning off their ad blockers. What then? We can only guess, Eric.
I would prefer to pay a fee. I am not going to put up with ads. I love BBI, but not enough to be bothered by ads. Sorry!
Percy, much of this I've said before over the years, but let me provide an overview of my thinking in context of your specific questions:
I personally haven't seen a better format for a forum on the net. I am not thrilled with how the quote box works, but I love how the conversation format is simple and is easy-to-read. The simplicity also seems well suited to different browsers and devices EXCEPT the text is too small for mobile devices.
So in my mind if we can fix the mobile issue with the existing format, that would be ideal. That will probably solve some of the ad issues that I don't see on my desktop or laptop that others see on some mobile devices (I don't see those issues on my wife's phone or Kindle either, but I believe other people are seeing them).
Right or wrong, I am absolutely CONVINCED a fee-based membership for BBI would kill the site. AT BEST, I think we would get 1/3 of current posters signing up. And that is AT BEST. Think about how uninteresting the Forum would be if 2/3rds of the posters evaporated. Why would the other 1/3 re-up for the Forum? Why not simply go to another FREE fan site?
Now if you are suggesting a separate category that those who pay don't see ads, I don't know how that would work. Not with the existing home grown software we have an not with the two ad networks I employ. There is no way for me to turn off ads for selective readers.
Without getting into too many specifics, I need to cover costs and generate enough of a profit to justify my time and effort. As anyone who runs a website based on advertising will tell you, publishers are largely at the mercy of the ebb and flow of how the ads are performing. There is a scary seasonal element to it (i.e., ad revenue always plummets at certain times of the year and there is always the worry if it will rebound). Sometimes things look solid and other times they do not.
Thanks. It has to be something like that because I haven't seen this issue on the devices I use. It must be an issue when people manually expand the screen.
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Right or wrong, I am absolutely CONVINCED a fee-based membership for BBI would kill the site. AT BEST, I think we would get 1/3 of current posters signing up. And that is AT BEST. Think about how uninteresting the Forum would be if 2/3rds of the posters evaporated. Why would the other 1/3 re-up for the Forum? Why not simply go to another FREE fan site?
Eric, you're missing the message here. Most people on any forum are lurkers. They would be the ones signing up for a subscription model. Gary says you get 900,000 users a year. If only 1% signed up at $1.99 a month, (I firmly believe it would be much higher), do the math. Insofar as losing valuable posters? No problem. Give them free access to the forum. They would be, in effect, paying for the site via their contributions. Easy-peasy. I simply do not see a downside here.
Regarding the "1/3 at best" estimate I wonder if this is based on the number of folks voluntarily contributing? Or the number of active user accounts?
Either way, requiring ads could kill the site just as fast. At least you can control the fees.
Maybe take a middle ground like many other media outlets have. Paid accounts are allowed to use ad blockers, free accounts get no such privilege.
Then again, maybe the ad revenue is more $$$ than we know on such a high traffic site, and too lucrative to completely transition away from.
Eric - despite some entitled nit picking dickheads who want to bitch about mobile compatibility and layout... symptoms of an over entitled society in general, IMO... I believe most BBIers love the site, we will continue to come for the content no matter which way you decide.
In comment 14401669 Stan in LA said:
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In comment 14400833 Percy said:
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Right or wrong, I am absolutely CONVINCED a fee-based membership for BBI would kill the site. AT BEST, I think we would get 1/3 of current posters signing up. And that is AT BEST. Think about how uninteresting the Forum would be if 2/3rds of the posters evaporated. Why would the other 1/3 re-up for the Forum? Why not simply go to another FREE fan site?
Eric, you're missing the message here. Most people on any forum are lurkers. They would be the ones signing up for a subscription model. Gary says you get 900,000 users a year. If only 1% signed up at $1.99 a month, (I firmly believe it would be much higher), do the math. Insofar as losing valuable posters? No problem. Give them free access to the forum. They would be, in effect, paying for the site via their contributions. Easy-peasy. I simply do not see a downside here.
If you upgrade the site to more current tech/times (and I know that's not the preference) then you would almost NEED to find a way to transfer the historical info over or you will wait a long time to build it back up to what it was. If the software/programming is so out of style that you can't automatically bring it over to the new site then you a stuck. It would take way too long to manually transfer everything over and who's got that kind of time. I can tell you that when I first came here many years ago I stayed and looked around because there was a lot of content. There were a lot of threads, posters, replies, etc. If I came here and only saw a few threads with only a few people posting on said threads, I'd have moved on to find another Giants' site.
I can certainly understand the trepidation involved in such a major overhaul.
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Speaking personally, and I recognize that BBI is your business, not mine, I would prefer that BBI adopt a more typical annual subscription fee system than permit unwelcome ads (and all of them are unwelcome) on the site. Why have you chosen not to do this?
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Right or wrong, I am absolutely CONVINCED a fee-based membership for BBI would kill the site. AT BEST, I think we would get 1/3 of current posters signing up. And that is AT BEST. Think about how uninteresting the Forum would be if 2/3rds of the posters evaporated. Why would the other 1/3 re-up for the Forum? Why not simply go to another FREE fan site?
Now if you are suggesting a separate category that those who pay don't see ads, I don't know how that would work. Not with the existing home grown software we have an not with the two ad networks I employ. There is no way for me to turn off ads for selective readers.
Thanks for the education responding to my little post. I very much hope it works out as you hope.
No, I did not intend to suggest a two-tier fee idea. Even to me, and even if it were technically feasible, that would be a non-starter.
I tried turning off my ad blocker, however repeatedly the ads block the text of posts. This happens despite what zoom percentage i use.
I tried turning off my ad blocker, however repeatedly the ads block the text of posts. This happens despite what zoom percentage i use.
Thanks. We only recently became aware that that was an issue. I haven't seen it on my end, but I have asked Gary if there is something we can do.
Give me a break.
the ad covering a portion of member writing is sporadic, and annoying, but if that's the worst part of my day, I can live with it.
Overall, the ad level on BBI is reasonable. Thank you for your efforts to keep it bearable.
aside from the ad issue, I frequent alternatehistory.com and love their format. Particularly LOVE the feature that, when you reenter a thread you've previously visited, brings you right to the spot you left. If you ever revise the site, that's a great feature.
the ad covering a portion of member writing is sporadic, and annoying, but if that's the worst part of my day, I can live with it.
Overall, the ad level on BBI is reasonable. Thank you for your efforts to keep it bearable.
aside from the ad issue, I frequent alternatehistory.com and love their format. Particularly LOVE the feature that, when you reenter a thread you've previously visited, brings you right to the spot you left. If you ever revise the site, that's a great feature.
Thanks. Regarding the other site, that would be a very cool feature.