#Michigan DT Rashan Gary, one of the draft’s top defensive players, has a shoulder that was flagged, sources say. It’s a labral tear from college, and most believe he can play this season, then possibly have surgery afterward. It will likely have to be managed or harnessed, tho
Per Rapaport on twittee
If he slides to 17.... you take him a second after Goodell reads the choice for 16.
Yeah would have been a huge mistake taking Myles Jack or Jaylon Smith... right?
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players in round 1 not a good idea.
Yeah would have been a huge mistake taking Myles Jack or Jaylon Smith... right?
Both Myles Jack and Jaylon Smith were NOT taken in Rd 1. Both were rd 2.
Wilkins will start at the 5 Tech from day 1. He will be a 3 down player
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In comment 14398793 XBRONX said:
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players in round 1 not a good idea.
Yeah would have been a huge mistake taking Myles Jack or Jaylon Smith... right?
Both Myles Jack and Jaylon Smith were NOT taken in Rd 1. Both were rd 2.
I know :)
He said it would be a mistake to take an injured player in round 1.... well it wouldn’t have been a mistake to take either of those players.
Dep, Myles Jack was taken in the 2nd round
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players in round 1 not a good idea.
Yeah would have been a huge mistake taking Myles Jack or Jaylon Smith... right?
Just because something happens to work out does not make it a good decision.
Dep, Myles Jack was taken in the 2nd round
I know. He should have been taken in the first...
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players in round 1 not a good idea.
Yeah would have been a huge mistake taking Myles Jack or Jaylon Smith... right?
The risk is insanely high regardless of the success stories. He’s off my board round 1 for sure.
Taking a player in RD1 who can’t play this season makes no sense to me.
Taking a player in RD1 who can’t play this season makes no sense to me.
They said he is going to play. Surgery after the year.
For a guy who was the top prospect out of high school in 2016 - and by a wide margin - Gary has not come close to living up to his five star hype. Even his agent dep would have to admit that in an honest moment...
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While it sounds like Gary still needs surgery.
Taking a player in RD1 who can’t play this season makes no sense to me.
They said he is going to play. Surgery after the year.
He struggled making plays in COLLEGE with a bum shoulder and dominate D around him. How is he going to do in the NFL with a bum shoulder?
If he slides to 17.... you take him a second after Goodell reads the choice for 16.
Wait, what? So you draft a guy with a preexisting condition at #17 and hope he doesn't damage it more before getting it fixed? Hell no... 2nd Rd, maybe but we need guys to produce immediately. I want no part of a guy who clearly is injured and will require surgery after the season. You already said his production was pretty low because of this injury and you expect him to play in the NFL with the same injury still, for his rookie season.
NO, NO and HELL NO!
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While it sounds like Gary still needs surgery.
Taking a player in RD1 who can’t play this season makes no sense to me.
They said he is going to play. Surgery after the year.
Nothing is guaranteed. Shaq Lawson entered the league with a similar injury. The intent was to play his rookie year and have surgery later. He re-aggravated the injury after being drafted and ended up having surgery missing most of his rookie season.
We know that you are a big proponent of Gary. But with the news of the injury, he is likely off team's boards in the top half of round 1. Some team will still take him, but a bad Giants team can't stake the future improvement on an injured player. The same rationale applies to Sweat with his heart condition. Just can't take the risk.
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In comment 14398793 XBRONX said:
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players in round 1 not a good idea.
Yeah would have been a huge mistake taking Myles Jack or Jaylon Smith... right?
Just because something happens to work out does not make it a good decision.
Huh? Any draft pick is a gamble. If it worked out, it’s a good decision.
Gary to me is a big no no at #17 and possibly even at #37.
He struggled making plays in COLLEGE with a bum shoulder and dominate D around him. How is he going to do in the NFL with a bum shoulder?
How many games did you watch?
I was a proponent of taking both Jack and Smith as well. So this holds absolutely no water.
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People crying about production never understood the concept of how hurt he truly was.
If he slides to 17.... you take him a second after Goodell reads the choice for 16.
Wait, what? So you draft a guy with a preexisting condition at #17 and hope he doesn't damage it more before getting it fixed? Hell no... 2nd Rd, maybe but we need guys to produce immediately. I want no part of a guy who clearly is injured and will require surgery after the season. You already said his production was pretty low because of this injury and you expect him to play in the NFL with the same injury still, for his rookie season.
Why do we we need him to produce immediately. Are we contending for something?
You mean outside of his dominating sophomore year (wait, here comes the stats without context crowd).
Many fans here would still complain.
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there wouldn’t be an argument.
I was a proponent of taking both Jack and Smith as well. So this holds absolutely no water.
Both were better players and better NFL prospects. It holds a lot of water.
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In comment 14398788 dep026 said:
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People crying about production never understood the concept of how hurt he truly was.
If he slides to 17.... you take him a second after Goodell reads the choice for 16.
Wait, what? So you draft a guy with a preexisting condition at #17 and hope he doesn't damage it more before getting it fixed? Hell no... 2nd Rd, maybe but we need guys to produce immediately. I want no part of a guy who clearly is injured and will require surgery after the season. You already said his production was pretty low because of this injury and you expect him to play in the NFL with the same injury still, for his rookie season.
Why do we we need him to produce immediately. Are we contending for something?
Yeah, I think that's the plan. Why else are we keeping Eli?
He probably should have gotten it done last August, but decided he wanted to play through the pain to help the team. I am sure there still will be posters who question his heart and desire though like it has repeatedly been said here.
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He struggled making plays in COLLEGE with a bum shoulder and dominate D around him. How is he going to do in the NFL with a bum shoulder?
How many games did you watch?
I've read the draft write-ups on him. But I suppose you know more then the draft guys do.
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In comment 14398874 UConn4523 said:
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there wouldn’t be an argument.
I was a proponent of taking both Jack and Smith as well. So this holds absolutely no water.
Both were better players and better NFL prospects. It holds a lot of water.
Gary has been talked about as a top 5 prospect as soon as he entered college and was still being talked up during his junior season as a potential top 3 pick. So, I am not sure how much better you can get than that.
I've read the draft write-ups on him. But I suppose you know more then the draft guys do.
Oh I am glad you read write ups on him. And most draft guys still had him as a consensus top 10 pick even with an inured plaque junior year.
Yeah, I think that's the plan. Why else are we keeping Eli?
Because management still thinks he is good?
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Yeah, I think that's the plan. Why else are we keeping Eli?
Because management still thinks he is good?
Right. Just not good enough to win though? I mean you just said we aren’t going anywhere so why wouldn’t we move on?
This whole thing is weird. You are getting super defensive about not taking a Michigan player with very legitimate concerns who’s also not even the top prospect at his position. You are responding to people like theirs no risk at all. It’s bizarre.
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In comment 14398803 dep026 said:
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In comment 14398793 XBRONX said:
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players in round 1 not a good idea.
Yeah would have been a huge mistake taking Myles Jack or Jaylon Smith... right?
Just because something happens to work out does not make it a good decision.
Huh? Any draft pick is a gamble. If it worked out, it’s a good decision.
That is true, just like any time you drive is a gamble. Driving drunk isnt a good decision just because you made it home safely. It is a lucky decision. There is a difference between lucky and good.
I like Gary but every player carries risk and shoulder problems with a man who generates his kind of power carries more risk. The more risk the less draft resources we should use. #17 is a bit too much for a guy who will need surgery, IMO.
Gary is off the charts with every other box you need to check.
Athleticism/strength
Football Character/Motor
Off field character
Scheme Diverse
But so were Jaylon Smith and Myles Jack and they both went in the 2nd. That said, I am not a doctor so I am not going to compare their injuries with Gary's. Maybe his is less severe but I do know he personifies speed to power and it seems to me that this type of play puts a crazy amount of pressure on that shoulder.
Right. Just not good enough to win though? I mean you just said we aren’t going anywhere so why wouldn’t we move on?
This whole thing is weird. You are getting super defensive about not taking a Michigan player with very legitimate concerns who’s also not even the top prospect at his position. You are responding to people like theirs no risk at all. It’s bizarre.
No what I am doing is hoping that a top prospect falling to us at 17 is really good value and worth taking since the injury is not a career threatening one. What I think is weird is people creating false narratives about a player when they have openly admitted they never even watched him play.
But yet this was somehow turned into Eli Manning, which is the weird thing.
Do that for a 1st rounder, and they will sharpen the pitchfork to the extent that the finely chiseled point snaps off in the gut.
Do that for a 1st rounder, and they will sharpen the pitchfork to the extent that the finely chiseled point snaps off in the gut.
I think BBI has lost its collective mind. Draft needs to end.
Cool post, yo.
I even saw Daniel Jones play live a couple times this year and I think he'll be a bust. I think Gary will be a William Joseph type.
But what the fuck do I know.
I will say this - when somebody gets into Duke Johnson mode on any draftee, it always seems a little bizarre to me.
Flashbacks to Sean Bennett and Jonah Seawright.....
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Right. Just not good enough to win though? I mean you just said we aren’t going anywhere so why wouldn’t we move on?
This whole thing is weird. You are getting super defensive about not taking a Michigan player with very legitimate concerns who’s also not even the top prospect at his position. You are responding to people like theirs no risk at all. It’s bizarre.
No what I am doing is hoping that a top prospect falling to us at 17 is really good value and worth taking since the injury is not a career threatening one. What I think is weird is people creating false narratives about a player when they have openly admitted they never even watched him play.
But yet this was somehow turned into Eli Manning, which is the weird thing.
It is weird, and it was only brought up because you said we aren't contending this year like its some reason we shouldn't care about a 1st rounder being injured.
I don't think Gary sucks, I think the risk sucks. I think there will be comparable players available around 17 depending on how the chips fall. I'd rather invest in a player with a cleaner injury history and that isn't an unreasonable position to take.
You know how I apologized for calling you a dupe. Please let me rescind that. Its obvious you are Goblue65999. Sad human being you are. Cant wait until your next dupe.
No way do you take a guy that high at 6 that is very unnatural as a pass rusher. His lack of bend is clear throughout all 3 years. Some guys just aren't natural pass rushers. Q Williams is and he showed it in his first year of extensive play time. Gary hasn't. He'll probably end up a solid player (hes an athletic marvel and good run stopper) but not a player you take all the way at 6.
For a guy who was the top prospect out of high school in 2016 - and by a wide margin - Gary has not come close to living up to his five star hype. Even his agent dep would have to admit that in an honest moment...
Injured or not you havent seen the most impactful facet of pss rush really at an elite level. The flashes were based on HWS not really nuance, technique or bending the arc well.
Don't know if this team has the guts to take another player who may need surgery, even at 17.
Exactly. He is a better more athletic version of Kerry Wynn. You don't take that at 6.
JJ Watt's season high in college was 7. He turned out ok :)
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now that this news proves he was so injured we should trade up and guarantee we get him in top 5! He was probably playing with a hidden injury in 2017 and 2016 too! Can't miss!
You know how I apologized for calling you a dupe. Please let me rescind that. Its obvious you are Goblue65999. Sad human being you are. Cant wait until your next dupe.
Perfect! And that must make you Gary’s father.
See here's the thing about expectations.... the Michigan defense's his freshman and sophomore years were light years better than what they had last year. It wasnt even close as far as talent was concerned.
Freshman year he didnt play as much as I liked, but they had Taco, Wormley, Gary, and Chase that all were doing their thing. That was the team I thought I had a real shot at the BCS but the early loss to Utah, the inexplicable loss to Iowa, and the referees handing OSU the win (haha, you know I wouldnt let you forget that one!!!)
His sophomore year, I thought he was amazing. Again, I point out the success everyone had one the team. 6 players with 10+ TFL, 6 players with 5 sacks or more. Just watch the film, they dont even bother running at him for most of the game. Watch how many times he coems down the line for a tackle. Or keeps contain. He was very, very good. He opened lanes for blitzers. Hudson was amazing in 2017 because he had a lot of free reigns. Bush as well. McCary who might be slower than you and I, even had a lot of success getting through gaps.
When people say his stats sucked, well go look at the opportunities he opened for his teammates, because that was his job. And let not act like he didnt get penetration, because he did - the problem was he played with so many good player - they often beat him by a split second.
Perfect! And that must make you Gary’s father.
Is this suppose to be funny?
Depending on who's there at 17 may not be horrible. Like Jack and Jaylon you could see him drop out of first round entirely depending on prognosis.
Taking a player in RD1 who can’t play this season makes no sense to me.
I expect that one of our RD1 picks will not play this season, by design. It would be frustrating if the other brand new RD1 toy also sits out 2019.
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is reaching Top 5 BBI Draft Crush status
Cool post, yo.
Dude....it is baffling how you can defend your stance on this. Holy shit.
BBI: No production his last year of ball.
dep: "He was hurt."
BBI: Drafting him in the 1st round would be irresponsible because of the uncertainty of his injury (labrum is not good when ypu play his position).
dep: "Other good players were hurt and drafted very high"
BBI: There are exceptions to the rule.
dep: "Cool story bro"
Wilkins will start at the 5 Tech from day 1. He will be a 3 down player
Not a good run defender according to just about everybody.
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In comment 14398942 jlukes said:
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is reaching Top 5 BBI Draft Crush status
Cool post, yo.
Dude....it is baffling how you can defend your stance on this. Holy shit.
BBI: No production his last year of ball.
dep: "He was hurt."
BBI: Drafting him in the 1st round would be irresponsible because of the uncertainty of his injury (labrum is not good when ypu play his position).
dep: "Other good players were hurt and drafted very high"
BBI: There are exceptions to the rule.
dep: "Cool story bro"
It’s tough to keep up with dupes. Which one are you again?
Gary at 37 is worth it because of his high floor as a run defender and HWS is off the charts. Not at 6 and meh at 17.
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was supposedly 2017. He had 5.5 sacks. I know the excuse for low sacks was, that wasn't his role. He was to set the edge. Well what was his role on third and long? Of his big 5.5 sacks, how many were straight up beating the OT with power or speed move?
JJ Watt's season high in college was 7. He turned out ok :)
JJ showed alot more flashes of nuanced ability and hand technique to win in the pass rush than Gary ever did.
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Or Allen at 6, Bush at 17 and Gary at 37 if he falls. Revamped defense
Gary at 37 is worth it because of his high floor as a run defender and HWS is off the charts. Not at 6 and meh at 17.
I think 17 is worth the risk. It’s a very treatable injury. I tore my labrum playing college baseball and was back throwing full strength in 3 months.
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In comment 14399115 TommyWiseau said:
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Or Allen at 6, Bush at 17 and Gary at 37 if he falls. Revamped defense
Gary at 37 is worth it because of his high floor as a run defender and HWS is off the charts. Not at 6 and meh at 17.
I think 17 is worth the risk. It’s a very treatable injury. I tore my labrum playing college baseball and was back throwing full strength in 3 months.
17 is much more palatable than 6.
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In comment 14398951 dep026 said:
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In comment 14398942 jlukes said:
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is reaching Top 5 BBI Draft Crush status
Cool post, yo.
Dude....it is baffling how you can defend your stance on this. Holy shit.
BBI: No production his last year of ball.
dep: "He was hurt."
BBI: Drafting him in the 1st round would be irresponsible because of the uncertainty of his injury (labrum is not good when ypu play his position).
dep: "Other good players were hurt and drafted very high"
BBI: There are exceptions to the rule.
dep: "Cool story bro"
It’s tough to keep up with dupes. Which one are you again?
Im not a dupe. I just have watched you get ridiculed for your rants for a few years now. I signed up recently because I was intrigued with this draft.
But keep calling me a dupe. If I stick around for another year, do I get my BBI Tenderfoot badge? And havent you been banned before?
Dont be mad at me because I just started responding....maybe come with better material?
You’re as much of a dupe as I’m an eli fan. This poster has The Jake written all over it.