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Haskins vs top 12 defenses

ajr2456 : 4/23/2019 7:19 am
In three games against top 12 defenses (Washington, Mich St and Michigan), Haskins had a 10-0 TD-INT ratio. Against those same defenses other QBs had a 30-36 TD-INT clip

in six games against Top 25 opponents this season, threw 20 touchdown passes (and just 2 INTs) for 1,987 yards and completed 66.2 pct. of his throws (149 of 225).
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Statistically the Mich St and Michigan...  
bw in dc : 4/23/2019 4:13 pm : link
defenses were ranked high. But were they actually good or beneficiaries of playing in a very down year in the B1G?

Outside of Ohio State, this wasn't a bumper crop of good offenses and offensive talent in the B1G. So I wouldn't give those ranking a lot of credibility.

RE: Statistically the Mich St and Michigan...  
dep026 : 4/23/2019 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14400024 bw in dc said:
Quote:
defenses were ranked high. But were they actually good or beneficiaries of playing in a very down year in the B1G?

Outside of Ohio State, this wasn't a bumper crop of good offenses and offensive talent in the B1G. So I wouldn't give those ranking a lot of credibility.


Remember that Bush, Gary, winovich, and hill were all banged up against OSU. Gary and winovich shouldn’t have played.
RE: RE: Statistically the Mich St and Michigan...  
bw in dc : 4/23/2019 4:31 pm : link
In comment 14400035 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14400024 bw in dc said:


Quote:


defenses were ranked high. But were they actually good or beneficiaries of playing in a very down year in the B1G?

Outside of Ohio State, this wasn't a bumper crop of good offenses and offensive talent in the B1G. So I wouldn't give those ranking a lot of credibility.




Remember that Bush, Gary, winovich, and hill were all banged up against OSU. Gary and winovich shouldn’t have played.


Well, let's be honest. That game wasn't Don Brown's most glowing moment from a strategy standpoint.
Drew Brees' Big Ten TD record stood for 20 years...  
Torrag : 4/23/2019 5:13 pm : link
...he threw 39 TD's.

Haskins shredded it, absolutely destroyed it. He threw 50, and he did it without a running game. That's 25% more for crissake.

I've said for a while I don't know what the Giants are going to do at #6 but it wouldn't surprise or dismay me in the least if they select him.
RE: that's all well and good  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 6:51 pm : link
In comment 14398779 Allen in CNJ said:
Quote:
but the biggest question with Haskins is how his game can translate to the NFL. He's a statue back there, due in large part to great protection in front of him, and when ANY QB has the time he has to throw it, against ANYONE, they're gonna put up numbers like those. Realize all D1 talent does NOT translate to the level of talent in the NFL, so these numbers are skewed to some extent.

I've never been a fan, I say pass!


I think it's fair to say that you don't like the guy or suspect he won't make it, but I don't really get the "statue" claim that is repeatedly made about him. I know his 40 time wasn't good, but everything I've seen about him shows he has good pocket awareness and mobility in the pocket. Maybe I'm missing the plays where he just folds like a statue. I don't know.

Meanwhile, I give you an example of him NOT looking like a statue - his pocket awareness and scrambling ability while keeping his eyes downfield to make a play look exactly like what I want out of an NFL QB.

RE: Drew Brees' Big Ten TD record stood for 20 years...  
GothamGiants : 4/23/2019 7:09 pm : link
In comment 14400105 Torrag said:
Quote:
...he threw 39 TD's.

Haskins shredded it, absolutely destroyed it. He threw 50, and he did it without a running game. That's 25% more for crissake.

I've said for a while I don't know what the Giants are going to do at #6 but it wouldn't surprise or dismay me in the least if they select him.


Ron Dayne for a lot of yards in college too ... I couldn’t care less about college stats

Please watch this video, if you have time, and tell me how many throws you honestly find impressive? Impressive meaning “wow I hope we land this guy”.

I’m trying, really hard, to find a way to get excited by Haskins ... how many of those TDs would you actually consider impressive ?

There’s quite a few glorified handoffs that go in his stat column, especially in the red zone (when he’s not hitting wide open targets there too)
Haskins - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Drew Brees' Big Ten TD record stood for 20 years...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:17 pm : link
In comment 14400236 GothamGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14400105 Torrag said:


Quote:


...he threw 39 TD's.

Haskins shredded it, absolutely destroyed it. He threw 50, and he did it without a running game. That's 25% more for crissake.

I've said for a while I don't know what the Giants are going to do at #6 but it wouldn't surprise or dismay me in the least if they select him.



Ron Dayne for a lot of yards in college too ... I couldn’t care less about college stats

Please watch this video, if you have time, and tell me how many throws you honestly find impressive? Impressive meaning “wow I hope we land this guy”.

I’m trying, really hard, to find a way to get excited by Haskins ... how many of those TDs would you actually consider impressive ?

There’s quite a few glorified handoffs that go in his stat column, especially in the red zone (when he’s not hitting wide open targets there too) Haskins - ( New Window )


I'm watching it right now - first TD was thirty yards on a rope into tight coverage - looks like an NFL caliber throw to me, not a "glorified handoff".

I will post a comment for passes that are impressive, but remember these are just the TD's.

#3...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:18 pm : link
a wheel route - relies on timing, accuracy and placement. 20 yds in the air, perfectly delivered a very catchable ball the runner catches in stride.

Very nice throw IMO.
skipping the red zone stuff...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:21 pm : link
(although I don't know why that should be held against him - the offense had to get into the red zone - right?)

Anyway, #10 is a beautiful perfectly placed ball 47 yards in the air. Perfect NFL-caliber throw with touch.
#13...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:23 pm : link
perfectly thrown 47 yards in the air TD pass. Excellent accuracy, placement, very catchable ball.
People who say Haskins is a statue out themselves as  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/23/2019 7:24 pm : link
people that never saw him play. 5 second 40, must be a non athlete.
#15...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:25 pm : link
back shoulder 32 yds in the air - nice downfield pass put it in a spot the receiver could make a play but the defender could not.

High quality throw.
RE: #13...  
GothamGiants : 4/23/2019 7:26 pm : link
In comment 14400251 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
perfectly thrown 47 yards in the air TD pass. Excellent accuracy, placement, very catchable ball.


Thanks for watching ... looking forward to your final impression.

Mine: I want Paris Campbell, not Dwayne Haskins
#19  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:26 pm : link
perfectly thrown ball, perfectly placed, 50 yards in the air, great accuracy.
#25...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:28 pm : link
25 yds in the air, perfectly placed hits receiver in stride, walks in from there. Mid-range accuracy is on the money.
RE: skipping the red zone stuff...  
GothamGiants : 4/23/2019 7:29 pm : link
In comment 14400250 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
(although I don't know why that should be held against him - the offense had to get into the red zone - right?)

Anyway, #10 is a beautiful perfectly placed ball 47 yards in the air. Perfect NFL-caliber throw with touch.


It’s quite relevant when you realize how many of those TDs came from wide open dumpoffs or passes less than 10 yards where the WR did all the work after the catch
#23...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:30 pm : link
while not an amazing throw, more evidence that he is not a statue. Facing serious pressure moves around in the pocket and shows very good mobility keeping his eyes open downfield. Throws the ball on the move and hits his receiver. Of course the play made after the catch is even more impressive, but still a + in my opinion on Haskins here.
RE: #25...  
GothamGiants : 4/23/2019 7:31 pm : link
In comment 14400268 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
25 yds in the air, perfectly placed hits receiver in stride, walks in from there. Mid-range accuracy is on the money.


7 throws out of 25 so far
'I couldn’t care less about college stats'...  
Torrag : 4/23/2019 7:31 pm : link
20 year records aren't broken by accident. How they are broken matter. When a guy rewrites the record book by an enormous margin in a major college football conferenceit's relevant. Sidenote: I've watched every scrap of game video I can find on Haskins. He has plus arm talent. He makes pro throws all the time to all levels of the field. He's extremely accurate and throws his receivers open. Advanced technical arm motion and quick release.

I'm beginning to think the problem for some of you guys is that he actually makes it look too easy. It isn't. He's a natural whose skillset and physique will translate to the next level.

There are a handful of players I'd embrace at #6 and he's certainly one of them.
#25...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:32 pm : link
moves the pocket, sets, pressure oncoming throws 52 yds downfield perfect accuracy and touch to hit his receiver in stride in the endzone.
#29...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:34 pm : link
while backpedaling throws 30 yds very nice pass, perhaps could have led his receiver here but still nice placement where the receiver has the only chance to catch it.
#30...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:36 pm : link
46 yards absolutely perfect placement, touch, accuracy. Beautiful ball.
#31...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:37 pm : link
52 yds in the air, perfectly placed ball, excellent throw.
#32  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:39 pm : link
an absolutely frozen rope 20 yds, line drive maybe a touch off on the placement (receiver twisted to catch it) but still able to keep stride into the end zone. Quality NFL throw, even if shorter range.
#33  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:40 pm : link
33 yds in the air downfield, perfect placement, accuracy and touch. Excellent throw.
#34  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:41 pm : link
45 yds perfectly placed to receiver in the end zone. Beautiful throw.
#35  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:46 pm : link
an excellent and interesting throw. 21 yds but it's a super-quick release almost sidearm an absolute bullet hits the receiver perfectly in stride to make for an easy TD. Not all NFL QBs make that throw or show that kind of release. Interesting to see him improvise with his arm angle. Also interesting because he shows super-quick decision-making here. The oppty for the huge play has to be taken immediately and he is able to instantly recognize it and modify his normal throwing motion to make sure the play gets made. I think this is one of his more intriguing plays to see, especially for people who think he will need a lot of time in the pocket or for complaints about a long throwing motion. This play makes the case for his ability to make quick and correct reads and improvise to make a play.
#36  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:46 pm : link
28 yds in the air, perfectly thrown, accuracy touch etc.
#39  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:48 pm : link
50 yds downfield, receiver had to turn and wait for it. Not a perfect throw but impressive, NFL-caliber, certainly not a glorified handoff.
RE: #35  
GothamGiants : 4/23/2019 7:49 pm : link
In comment 14400290 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
an excellent and interesting throw. 21 yds but it's a super-quick release almost sidearm an absolute bullet hits the receiver perfectly in stride to make for an easy TD. Not all NFL QBs make that throw or show that kind of release. Interesting to see him improvise with his arm angle. Also interesting because he shows super-quick decision-making here. The oppty for the huge play has to be taken immediately and he is able to instantly recognize it and modify his normal throwing motion to make sure the play gets made. I think this is one of his more intriguing plays to see, especially for people who think he will need a lot of time in the pocket or for complaints about a long throwing motion. This play makes the case for his ability to make quick and correct reads and improvise to make a play.


I was with you ... but this is a slant route any half decent nfl starter will make
#46  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:51 pm : link
30 yds, perfect placement, nice throw.
RE: #39  
GothamGiants : 4/23/2019 7:52 pm : link
In comment 14400295 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
50 yds downfield, receiver had to turn and wait for it. Not a perfect throw but impressive, NFL-caliber, certainly not a glorified handoff.


He has all day to throw to a wide open WR and he underthrows him

There is absolutely nothing special about this throw. It’s not even a good play on his part ... wow.

#47...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:53 pm : link
45 yds in the air, receiver is wide open but makes what looks like an effortless toss.
#51  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:56 pm : link
this is the play for the gif I linked above - certainly shows the kind of mobility I want in a QB. BTW that's 35 yds in the air as he's running to the right. Placed beautifully too.
#52  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:57 pm : link
48 yds, beautifully placed throw, excellent touch, NFL quality play.
#53...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:58 pm : link
40 yds in the air, perfect strike for a TD.
#54...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 7:59 pm : link
the throw itself was nothing, but an excellent example of the kind of pocket awareness and mobility you want in the pocket. Senses the pressure, moves his feet well, keeps his eyes downfield. He absolutely makes a play that a "statue" cannot make.
I don't know...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 8:10 pm : link
Here's what I'll say (btw, this isn't the first time I've watched the clips of all his TD's, so my take hasn't changed because of this):

He had exceptional receivers.

He generally had very good blocking.

He benefits from all of that.

He also makes a TON of plays. He has excellent touch and accuracy. How many of those plays were less than 100% accurate? Maybe 3 of 56 or whatever? Fine, a few which were not perfect but still catchable.

I've enjoyed Eli's career and am a big fan. One of my favorite all-time Giants players. I know he regularly makes off-target throws, far more than I've seen from Haskins.

I've not watched every Haskins game because I can't find them all. I've watched the "every throw" tapes and seen plenty where he's off, especially earlier in the year.
Having said that I've never seen him be off more than 6-7 times in a game - when he's got 30 or so attempts. That's the reason why he has such an incredible completion percentage.

You may not like him for a variety of reasons, but saying he doesn't throw the ball well or that he only dumps it off and gets tons of YAC is wrong. He throws it beautifully both mid-range and downfield with regularity.

I don't have some of the advanced analytics stats in front of me but what I've seen support my observations.

RE: I don't know...  
GothamGiants : 4/23/2019 8:15 pm : link
In comment 14400334 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
Here's what I'll say (btw, this isn't the first time I've watched the clips of all his TD's, so my take hasn't changed because of this):

He had exceptional receivers.

He generally had very good blocking.

He benefits from all of that.

He also makes a TON of plays. He has excellent touch and accuracy. How many of those plays were less than 100% accurate? Maybe 3 of 56 or whatever? Fine, a few which were not perfect but still catchable.

I've enjoyed Eli's career and am a big fan. One of my favorite all-time Giants players. I know he regularly makes off-target throws, far more than I've seen from Haskins.

I've not watched every Haskins game because I can't find them all. I've watched the "every throw" tapes and seen plenty where he's off, especially earlier in the year.
Having said that I've never seen him be off more than 6-7 times in a game - when he's got 30 or so attempts. That's the reason why he has such an incredible completion percentage.

You may not like him for a variety of reasons, but saying he doesn't throw the ball well or that he only dumps it off and gets tons of YAC is wrong. He throws it beautifully both mid-range and downfield with regularity.

I don't have some of the advanced analytics stats in front of me but what I've seen support my observations.


Never said his arm wasn’t legit or he wasn’t inaccurate.

Did say his stats, which some mention as a reason to select him, are grossly inflated by the ability of guys like Campbell to either take the glorified handoff or catch a crossing route and do the actual work on several long TDs

I do not hate Haskins. I just do not see anything special.
If the Giants do take him, hopefully they bring Campbell along for the ride too ... he’s a guy I fell in love with after digging into Haskins.
RE: RE: #35  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 8:16 pm : link
In comment 14400296 GothamGiants said:
Quote:


I was with you ... but this is a slant route any half decent nfl starter will make


Disagree - he didn't even finish his drop - took one step and threw flat footed, very very quick release. Not all QB's make that play with that timing. All good QB's do. Not all QB's do.

It's interesting not because it's a slant route - you are right that most any decent QB can complete the slant with accuracy. It's interesting because of the timing. He saw the need to get the ball out quickly and improvised the throw to give the receiver the best chance to make a play. He rifled it from a unique arm angle without his feet placed correctly and it was perfect.

BTW that's >20 yds in the air as well. Looks like a 10 yd slant but it's not.

Again, good QB's make that play, many other NFL QB's do not.
RE: RE: I don't know...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 8:20 pm : link
In comment 14400343 GothamGiants said:
Quote:


Never said his arm wasn’t legit or he wasn’t inaccurate.

Did say his stats, which some mention as a reason to select him, are grossly inflated by the ability of guys like Campbell to either take the glorified handoff or catch a crossing route and do the actual work on several long TDs


Here's what you did say (and why I watched the video):

Quote:
Please watch this video, if you have time, and tell me how many throws you honestly find impressive? Impressive meaning “wow I hope we land this guy”.


I saw a ton of throws that I found impressive. Not too many QB's have a TD only highlight reel from one season with more.

And BTW, I'm with you on Campbell. Don't forget the other receivers too - lots of good receivers there.
Dan in the Springs -  
BlueLou'sBack : 4/23/2019 9:17 pm : link
That was the best lesson I have ever witnessed on BBI.

You must be very good at your metier.

GG, I hope you appreciate what Dan did above. He has one of the sharper minds on this Forum, and a good set of eyes too. You should really try to talk less and listen more.
RE: Dan in the Springs -  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 10:20 pm : link
In comment 14400447 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
That was the best lesson I have ever witnessed on BBI.

You must be very good at your metier.

GG, I hope you appreciate what Dan did above. He has one of the sharper minds on this Forum, and a good set of eyes too. You should really try to talk less and listen more.


That's very kind BlueLou, but I don't view it as a lesson at all. For me it's just comparing notes on what we see.

I'm no expert, haven't risen to the level of others who are in a position to be critical of professionals. I'm just a guy who's been watching the Giants since the '80s. I haven't missed a snap of a game in over 20 years and almost always watch each game twice and take notes. I read Defenderdawg's threads religiously, especially looking for the articles with X's and O's, because I love the sport, but not because I know anything about it. When you read what I see you're getting an amateur's opinion, nothing more.

Having said that, this look back at Haskin's TD's was specific to looking for impressive throws. I admittedly threw in some other small things I noticed, like mobility and decision making once or twice. A much better evaluation would include the red zone, because it's very difficult to pass for TD's there. Everything happens quicker and so you can get a really good idea about a QB's abilities from how they perform in tight to the goal line. Some things you can notice include non-throwing aspects of play like reads, decision-making, and timing, as well as throwing aspects like velocity, accuracy, timing, and touch. It seems arbitrary to remove the red zone passes when looking for impressive throws, given how difficult it can be to score in the red zone.

I also think it's a little too simple to write off other plays made by amazing playmakers. Bubble screens and wheel routes have to be timed and placed with perfect accuracy and touch for playmakers to be in a position to make plays. Anyone who's watched Eli extensively knows that a great QB can struggle with putting receivers in the best position in the short game. Additionally pre-snap reads of the defense, selling the play-action, footwork in the pocket, looking off defenders all come into play on a ton of short passes. To simply discount all of that as "glorified handoffs" is wrong imo. If it's so easy to do, why don't more QB's have success with it?

Finally, the analysis done above is bad because it doesn't include anything BUT scoring plays. Any real scouting analysis would spend at least as much time if not more on the other plays, particularly plays where DH struggled. If he was off target, why? That's a far more important question.

I don't know how anyone can provide the highlight reel of 56 TD passes over 13 or so games as evidence that a guy is not an impressive thrower though.

Want to know another first year starter who had >50 passes? Mahomes this year for the Chiefs. Guess how many of his TD passes were from inside the red zone or were short passes his playmakers took to the house?

Find out for yourself here.

RE: that's all well and good  
djm : 4/23/2019 10:37 pm : link
In comment 14398779 Allen in CNJ said:
Quote:
but the biggest question with Haskins is how his game can translate to the NFL. He's a statue back there, due in large part to great protection in front of him, and when ANY QB has the time he has to throw it, against ANYONE, they're gonna put up numbers like those. Realize all D1 talent does NOT translate to the level of talent in the NFL, so these numbers are skewed to some extent.

I've never been a fan, I say pass!


Any qb will put up numbers like Haskins? Even with the protection cmon, not every or any qb puts up those numbers. If they did we’d see 50 tds more often than we do. Haskins was insanely productive. Let’s leave it that.
RE: RE: These arguments are funny  
djm : 4/23/2019 10:40 pm : link
In comment 14399637 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
In comment 14399602 Stupendamatic said:


Quote:


For Haskins, the talent around him is a negative and used to downplay his ability as a passer.

For Jones, the lack of talent is an excuse to why he didn't put up great numbers and used to show his toughness.



Yea and gotta love the people who say "but Jones faced more adversity so that's why he'll succeed in the NFL." As if actual production and winning count for nothing!


Jones did produce though. He did win.
RE: Dan in the Springs -  
GothamGiants : 4/23/2019 10:42 pm : link
In comment 14400447 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
That was the best lesson I have ever witnessed on BBI.

You must be very good at your metier.

GG, I hope you appreciate what Dan did above. He has one of the sharper minds on this Forum, and a good set of eyes too. You should really try to talk less and listen more.


I stopped paying attention to the “lesson” when I wide open throw with all the time in the world was actually praised, despite being underthrown - but I did appreciate the dialogue.

I’ll continue to watch the players, think for myself, and voice my opinion as i see fit. Feel free to ignore. Goodnight.
RE: RE: Dan in the Springs -  
GothamGiants : 4/23/2019 10:53 pm : link
In comment 14400542 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 14400447 BlueLou'sBack said:


Quote:


That was the best lesson I have ever witnessed on BBI.

You must be very good at your metier.

GG, I hope you appreciate what Dan did above. He has one of the sharper minds on this Forum, and a good set of eyes too. You should really try to talk less and listen more.



That's very kind BlueLou, but I don't view it as a lesson at all. For me it's just comparing notes on what we see.

I'm no expert, haven't risen to the level of others who are in a position to be critical of professionals. I'm just a guy who's been watching the Giants since the '80s. I haven't missed a snap of a game in over 20 years and almost always watch each game twice and take notes. I read Defenderdawg's threads religiously, especially looking for the articles with X's and O's, because I love the sport, but not because I know anything about it. When you read what I see you're getting an amateur's opinion, nothing more.

Having said that, this look back at Haskin's TD's was specific to looking for impressive throws. I admittedly threw in some other small things I noticed, like mobility and decision making once or twice. A much better evaluation would include the red zone, because it's very difficult to pass for TD's there. Everything happens quicker and so you can get a really good idea about a QB's abilities from how they perform in tight to the goal line. Some things you can notice include non-throwing aspects of play like reads, decision-making, and timing, as well as throwing aspects like velocity, accuracy, timing, and touch. It seems arbitrary to remove the red zone passes when looking for impressive throws, given how difficult it can be to score in the red zone.

I also think it's a little too simple to write off other plays made by amazing playmakers. Bubble screens and wheel routes have to be timed and placed with perfect accuracy and touch for playmakers to be in a position to make plays. Anyone who's watched Eli extensively knows that a great QB can struggle with putting receivers in the best position in the short game. Additionally pre-snap reads of the defense, selling the play-action, footwork in the pocket, looking off defenders all come into play on a ton of short passes. To simply discount all of that as "glorified handoffs" is wrong imo. If it's so easy to do, why don't more QB's have success with it?

Finally, the analysis done above is bad because it doesn't include anything BUT scoring plays. Any real scouting analysis would spend at least as much time if not more on the other plays, particularly plays where DH struggled. If he was off target, why? That's a far more important question.

I don't know how anyone can provide the highlight reel of 56 TD passes over 13 or so games as evidence that a guy is not an impressive thrower though.

Want to know another first year starter who had >50 passes? Mahomes this year for the Chiefs. Guess how many of his TD passes were from inside the red zone or were short passes his playmakers took to the house?

Find out for yourself here.


I included only the TDs because that stat continues to get mentioned as a reason to draft him high ... when, in reality, a lot of the throws behind the pretty stats weren’t that impressive. Some were, most were nothing special. I actually agree with most of what you said, except for #39 - which is in no way a good throw at all. Plenty of time, wide open WR, for a guy who’s touted as having such great arm talent - that throw shouldn’t be underthrown with the WR stopping his route just to make a play on the ball. Mahomes scrambles and bombs that ball sidearm to tyreek hill in stride - they aren’t even close in terms of ability.

I do not hate Haskins, and I do not see anything special to get excited out. He has an NFL arm, he’s accurate, and he used it to exploit having superior talent around him.

Guess we’ll check back in 3-5 years ... I want nothing to do with Haskins @ 6. Thank you for your time, I enjoyed comparing notes.
RE: RE: RE: Dan in the Springs -  
Dan in the Springs : 4/23/2019 11:08 pm : link
In comment 14400575 GothamGiants said:
Quote:


I included only the TDs because that stat continues to get mentioned as a reason to draft him high ... when, in reality, a lot of the throws behind the pretty stats weren’t that impressive. Some were, most were nothing special. I actually agree with most of what you said, except for #39 - which is in no way a good throw at all. Plenty of time, wide open WR, for a guy who’s touted as having such great arm talent - that throw shouldn’t be underthrown with the WR stopping his route just to make a play on the ball. Mahomes scrambles and bombs that ball sidearm to tyreek hill in stride - they aren’t even close in terms of ability.

I do not hate Haskins, and I do not see anything special to get excited out. He has an NFL arm, he’s accurate, and he used it to exploit having superior talent around him.

Guess we’ll check back in 3-5 years ... I want nothing to do with Haskins @ 6. Thank you for your time, I enjoyed comparing notes.


Totally fair and good response, don't necessarily disagree even on #39 either, I see your point there. It's definitely okay to see things differently, especially from me. Seriously, what do I know? I'm just another guy you might meet in the bar, my opinion isn't worth spit.

Nice chatting with you.
How about exceptionally accurate  
xman : 4/23/2019 11:08 pm : link
like Jed Clampett with a rifle
Thank you for the link, I will peruse it.  
BlueLou'sBack : 4/23/2019 11:21 pm : link
I've got to the point where I suppose I am simply too lazy to do such an Aristotelian (is that the correct categorization of the methodology?) analysis of prospects I wish to study. Perhaps "study" is even the wrong word. I watch whole game or every throw tapes of prospects who interest me, and/ or whom I suspect the Giants may have interest in, from rumors or from obvious team particulars like Eli's age and the fact of his contract being in its last year.

I also watched a lot of live college FB the past 3 years. In 17 and 18, Saquon jumped off the screen to me. At times I thought I was watching Gayle Sayers redux. I also got the sense watching Barkley that he was better than whatever his stats said he was. He was underused, didn't have the right players around him, whatever...

Haskins simply jumped off the TV screen to me. I simply thought two things watching him: 1) he was not an OSU QB, I'd never seen an OSU QB with his skill set. 2) was this guy just hates to lose, he's cool as cucumber and gets better as the game circumstances demand.

Yeah his receivers were the cats' meow of CFB (except maybe for Trevor Lawrence's who are diamonds). But a whole lot of the "extras" his WRs delivered were, to my eyes, because Haskins' placement accuracy and timing of his throws led those receivers to all that extra yardage.

That's all. No in depth analysis or breakdowns of analytics or whipped cream, cherries, and nuts. Call it Zen view or thin slicing, I had a pretty good idea from the first 10-15 times I saw Haskins throw that I'd like to see him in Blue.

More than Ed Oliver? That's way above my pay scale.
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