“I don’t know if they’ve ever paid attention or seen him in person,” Cutcliffe said. “He’s got a really strong arm. He’s amazingly accurate. I do this for a living. I’d take 10 of him in a row if I could get ’em. Cutcliffe - ( New Window )
Smart QB that knows his role and doesnt have the ego to force throws. This is the Saquan show with a QB who is good/smart enough to hurt you if you over pursue Saquan.
All this adds up to #17, IMO.
So then the rhetorical question is, If he fits, then do you risk losing him at 17? You either think this guy is your long term answer or you don’t.
That is the million dollar question and above my pay grade. I am going to sit back and enjoy being optimistic on whoever we pick.
But, if I am playing armchair GM...yes, I do take that risk bc it allows me to get an elite defensive player.
Smart QB that knows his role and doesnt have the ego to force throws. This is the Saquan show with a QB who is good/smart enough to hurt you if you over pursue Saquan.
All this adds up to #17, IMO.
So then the rhetorical question is, If he fits, then do you risk losing him at 17? You either think this guy is your long term answer or you don’t.
That is the million dollar question and above my pay grade. I am going to sit back and enjoy being optimistic on whoever we pick.
But, if I am playing armchair GM...yes, I do take that risk bc it allows me to get an elite defensive player.
Have people even watched Jones? Hes got the feet of a 10-year veteran. Hint: If youre a QB and everyone concedes you look like a Manning - thats perfect mechanics.
Im with Cutcliffe. Live arm.
Its just a shame this negative perception around Jones. Really shows a lack of comprehension.
Have people even watched Jones? Hes got the feet of a 10-year veteran. Hint: If youre a QB and everyone concedes you look like a Manning - thats perfect mechanics.
Im with Cutcliffe. Live arm.
Its just a shame this negative perception around Jones. Really shows a lack of comprehension.
Name me a QB without the last name Manning that Cutcliffe has put in the NFL and been successful.
what this team wants to do on offense.
thats not a 6th pick reason to take him though- maybe at 17.
EXACTLY...he may not be the most talented, in fact we can probably all agree that he is not - but I think he fits how DG sees this team coming together.
Smart QB that knows his role and doesnt have the ego to force throws. This is the Saquan show with a QB who is good/smart enough to hurt you if you over pursue Saquan.
All this adds up to #17, IMO.
You can't pick your franchise QB based on the RB you have. That one of the dumbest ways to build a team. As great a saquon is, he's still a RB. QBs will, hopefully, be leading your team for 15 years, running backs will be lucky to get 6 too tier years. You complement your QB with an RB, not the other way around.
Totally disagree. Saquan is not an RB - he is an offensive weapon.
Teams with elite QBs win Super Bowls.
But so do good, smart QBs with great running games and excellent defenses.
Peyton in Denver
Elway
Early Tom Brady
Ben R (rookie year)
Flacco
Dilfer
Brad Johnson
The amount of excuses to justify Jones’s play on the field at Duke is the same intensity used by the Eli is God crowd for Eli’s subpar play.
I finally figured bw out!! He's just a conspiratorial nutjob.
Afterall, he claims there was a mandate to keep Eli and build around him, which could just be contained within the walls of "Jints Central", but on Jones, not only are the Giants making "excuses" to justify Jones play, they now have a lot of national beat writers and draftniks doing it too!!
With all of this pull, Mara must be Illuminati??
Great evaluation!!!! Dude is delusional.
It blows my mind that any fan that watched the Giants def last year... Â
Don't find out much about a QB in Ohio State running up the score 76-3 against Gudger College. Can definitely get better tape with Jones surrounded by crap talent going against better teams.
I don't see Gudger College but do see Penn State, Michigan, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Iowa, TCU.
what this team wants to do on offense.
thats not a 6th pick reason to take him though- maybe at 17.
EXACTLY...he may not be the most talented, in fact we can probably all agree that he is not - but I think he fits how DG sees this team coming together.
Smart QB that knows his role and doesnt have the ego to force throws. This is the Saquan show with a QB who is good/smart enough to hurt you if you over pursue Saquan.
All this adds up to #17, IMO.
You can't pick your franchise QB based on the RB you have. That one of the dumbest ways to build a team. As great a saquon is, he's still a RB. QBs will, hopefully, be leading your team for 15 years, running backs will be lucky to get 6 too tier years. You complement your QB with an RB, not the other way around.
Totally disagree. Saquan is not an RB - he is an offensive weapon.
Teams with elite QBs win Super Bowls.
But so do good, smart QBs with great running games and excellent defenses.
Peyton in Denver
Elway
Early Tom Brady
Ben R (rookie year)
Flacco
Dilfer
Brad Johnson
the list goes on.
Though no SB, Favre doesn’t come close to his 30 TD, 4 Int 2010(or something like that) without AP in Minny, imv
Did you watch the video of Eli throwing that was posted the other day? Daniel Jones can't make those throws in his wildest dreams.
I thought Eli looked really good in that video.
However, I havent ever questioned that he has throws left - he does.
The problem is that he needs things to be ideal/perfect in front of him and around his feet. He is a traffic cone back there. He is no longer the 2011 NFC Championship Game version of Eli.
what this team wants to do on offense.
thats not a 6th pick reason to take him though- maybe at 17.
EXACTLY...he may not be the most talented, in fact we can probably all agree that he is not - but I think he fits how DG sees this team coming together.
Smart QB that knows his role and doesnt have the ego to force throws. This is the Saquan show with a QB who is good/smart enough to hurt you if you over pursue Saquan.
All this adds up to #17, IMO.
You can't pick your franchise QB based on the RB you have. That one of the dumbest ways to build a team. As great a saquon is, he's still a RB. QBs will, hopefully, be leading your team for 15 years, running backs will be lucky to get 6 too tier years. You complement your QB with an RB, not the other way around.
Totally disagree. Saquan is not an RB - he is an offensive weapon.
Teams with elite QBs win Super Bowls.
But so do good, smart QBs with great running games and excellent defenses.
Peyton in Denver
Elway
Early Tom Brady
Ben R (rookie year)
Flacco
Dilfer
Brad Johnson
the list goes on.
If you think your QB needs an all time defense to win, then he's not a first round QB though. Denver, Tampa, Baltimore (both times), and the Steelers had all-time great defenses. If you are banking on that, then Jones isn't worth a first round pick. If that's your strategy, use a first on building that all-time great defense. A QB taken in the first round skulls be expected to win games on his own in his career
Even at age 38, on the downslope of his career, Eli's arm is so far ahead of Jones' that it shows how silly these comparisons of Jones to the Mannings are.
Even at age 38, on the downslope of his career, Eli's arm is so far ahead of Jones' that it shows how silly these comparisons of Jones to the Mannings are.
Well his arm can get stronger.... but I do agree with the majority of what you wrote.
Some seem to not understand how historically terrible Duke has been Â
In the 4 years of Cutcliffe's predecessor Duke was 4-42 and 1-31 in ACC play. And in the 5 years during his predecessor's predecessor they were 10-48. Those are not typos. They had won 1 ACC game in 4 years. And those W/L records were not aberrations by Duke standards. They had 3 winless seasons between 2000-2007. Think about that. Zero bowl wins in the 55 seasons spanning 1961 - 2015 out of just 2 appearances.
Since 2008 under Cutcliffe they are:
67-72 (including 31 ACC games & in 2013 they actually won the coastal conf)
3-3 in bowl games, winning 3 in the last 4 years
nationally ranked in 4 of the last 6 years
The typical "everyone plays a bowl game!" doesn't even really hold any water since Duke was pretty much always under .500, which means even if there were always as many bowl games as there are now they still wouldn't have fared any better.
I am not a Duke fan but I root for an ACC team in the coastal and what Cutcliffe has done as a coach is impressive from an opposition pov. And he hasn't done it by all of sudden recruiting better players. They still get very few guys drafted - 5 in the last 10 years as a matter of fact, and 2 of them 7th rounders. He is just a solid, old school coach, especially of QBs - which is why Jones is going to be his 3rd in a row, from Duke, who will make it to an NFL roster. Dave Brown was literally the last Duke QB to make an NFL roster prior to Cutcliffe.
Totally disagree. Saquan is not an RB - he is an offensive weapon.
Teams with elite QBs win Super Bowls.
But so do good, smart QBs with great running games and excellent defenses.
Peyton in Denver
Elway
Early Tom Brady
Ben R (rookie year)
Flacco
Dilfer
Brad Johnson
the list goes on.
If you think your QB needs an all time defense to win, then he's not a first round QB though. Denver, Tampa, Baltimore (both times), and the Steelers had all-time great defenses. If you are banking on that, then Jones isn't worth a first round pick. If that's your strategy, use a first on building that all-time great defense. A QB taken in the first round skulls be expected to win games on his own in his career
Ugh, most of those guys were first round picks but not elite (at least not when they won those Super Bowls).
There is more than one way to build a Super Bowl caliber team and if you think very good, smart quarterbacking is worthy of a mid 1st round pick then we just disagree.
A good, smart QB can be a part of a SB winning team and is worth a mid 1st round pick especially if it is part of a bigger plan (great running game and defense).
And I'm not saying Jones isn't an NFL quarterback Â
But #6 overall? That's insane. He might be a decent caretaker-type starter who will play a smart, safe game and not lose you games with mistakes. I can't see him ever being the kind of QB who can put a team on his back and make big time throws to carry them to victory. Despite whatever criticisms I've made about Eli's periodic inconsistency and the fact that I think it's time to move on from him, one thing I will never deny is that, at his best, he could absolutely carry a team with his arm.
Totally disagree. Saquan is not an RB - he is an offensive weapon.
Teams with elite QBs win Super Bowls.
But so do good, smart QBs with great running games and excellent defenses.
Peyton in Denver
Elway
Early Tom Brady
Ben R (rookie year)
Flacco
Dilfer
Brad Johnson
the list goes on.
If you think your QB needs an all time defense to win, then he's not a first round QB though. Denver, Tampa, Baltimore (both times), and the Steelers had all-time great defenses. If you are banking on that, then Jones isn't worth a first round pick. If that's your strategy, use a first on building that all-time great defense. A QB taken in the first round skulls be expected to win games on his own in his career
Ugh, most of those guys were first round picks but not elite (at least not when they won those Super Bowls).
There is more than one way to build a Super Bowl caliber team and if you think very good, smart quarterbacking is worthy of a mid 1st round pick then we just disagree.
A good, smart QB can be a part of a SB winning team and is worth a mid 1st round pick especially if it is part of a bigger plan (great running game and defense).
I guess your and I just disagree with what should be expected from a first round franchise QB. I personally don't think that a great running game and great defense should be needed if you have a franchise QB. He should be able to cover up some flaws, ala Eli 2011. It's why franchise QBs are so valuable, they allow you more room for error elsewhere.
I agree there are other ways to build a Superbowl team, I just don't think a non-franchise QB is worth a 1st round pick. A guy who can't put the team on his back and make up for a mediocre defense and or running game time to time is just only worth so much in my book
will likely be too expensive to move up from #17 to take Jones. We'd have to get at least #9 IMO. That would take #37 and then some. Sure, you can trade day three picks to get back into the third round, but even then you won't be picking between #9 and say #75.
Why do some continue on with this weak arm crap. Its been Â
now stated by numerous experts (not media) that he has a good arm. Maybe you don't like his production at Duke, but drop the weak arm stuff just because you watched a youtube video. Also a hp does not mean he has a weak arm, Eli was hopping yesterday. Its a timing and mechanics thing.
I think we go defense at #6 and the TBD at #17 (could be Jones, an OL, someone who dropped suprisingly, etc.).
will likely be too expensive to move up from #17 to take Jones. We'd have to get at least #9 IMO. That would take #37 and then some. Sure, you can trade day three picks to get back into the third round, but even then you won't be picking between #9 and say #75.
I'm no draftnik, but I can't see Jones going top 10.
The amount of excuses to justify Jones’s play on the field at Duke is the same intensity used by the Eli is God crowd for Eli’s subpar play.
You make the same excuses for josh rosen at zona last year. Actually you make more excuses for rosen last year since he was fucking terrible. Rookie ? Sure. Bad team ? Sure. He was still terrible, both statistically and in the wins and losses column. Yet there is BW propping up rosen at every turn.
That’s called INCONSISTENCY.
RE: Exactly. If the Giants like him, I don't see them waiting on him Â
The amount of excuses to justify Jones’s play on the field at Duke is the same intensity used by the Eli is God crowd for Eli’s subpar play.
You make the same excuses for josh rosen at zona last year. Actually you make more excuses for rosen last year since he was fucking terrible. Rookie ? Sure. Bad team ? Sure. He was still terrible, both statistically and in the wins and losses column. Yet there is BW propping up rosen at every turn.
That’s called INCONSISTENCY.
Yes but you didn't have to make those excuses for his college performance! Jones was a 3 year starter at Duke and not once elevated the play of his team. If you can't do that in college you sure as shit ain't doing it in the NFL. I don't believe anybody that actually watched his games believes that he's anything more than a day 3 pick. This has to all be smoke. Even the biggest die-hard homer Duke fans think this talk is insane!
RE: RE: Jones is going to be the perfect heir to Eli... Â
The amount of excuses to justify Jones’s play on the field at Duke is the same intensity used by the Eli is God crowd for Eli’s subpar play.
You make the same excuses for josh rosen at zona last year. Actually you make more excuses for rosen last year since he was fucking terrible. Rookie ? Sure. Bad team ? Sure. He was still terrible, both statistically and in the wins and losses column. Yet there is BW propping up rosen at every turn.
That’s called INCONSISTENCY.
There’s a stark difference between being on a less talented team in the NFL than in college. In college every player you’re playing against isn’t playing in the NFL, so if you were a franchise QB you should be able to show that more often than not.
RE: RE: RE: Jones is going to be the perfect heir to Eli... Â
The amount of excuses to justify Jones’s play on the field at Duke is the same intensity used by the Eli is God crowd for Eli’s subpar play.
You make the same excuses for josh rosen at zona last year. Actually you make more excuses for rosen last year since he was fucking terrible. Rookie ? Sure. Bad team ? Sure. He was still terrible, both statistically and in the wins and losses column. Yet there is BW propping up rosen at every turn.
That’s called INCONSISTENCY.
Yes but you didn't have to make those excuses for his college performance! Jones was a 3 year starter at Duke and not once elevated the play of his team. If you can't do that in college you sure as shit ain't doing it in the NFL. I don't believe anybody that actually watched his games believes that he's anything more than a day 3 pick. This has to all be smoke. Even the biggest die-hard homer Duke fans think this talk is insane!
Not ONCE elevated the team of his play is a weird position to take. He played with zero draftable players. How many games would they have one without him?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Jones is going to be the perfect heir to Eli... Â
The amount of excuses to justify Jones’s play on the field at Duke is the same intensity used by the Eli is God crowd for Eli’s subpar play.
You make the same excuses for josh rosen at zona last year. Actually you make more excuses for rosen last year since he was fucking terrible. Rookie ? Sure. Bad team ? Sure. He was still terrible, both statistically and in the wins and losses column. Yet there is BW propping up rosen at every turn.
That’s called INCONSISTENCY.
Yes but you didn't have to make those excuses for his college performance! Jones was a 3 year starter at Duke and not once elevated the play of his team. If you can't do that in college you sure as shit ain't doing it in the NFL. I don't believe anybody that actually watched his games believes that he's anything more than a day 3 pick. This has to all be smoke. Even the biggest die-hard homer Duke fans think this talk is insane!
Not ONCE elevated the team of his play is a weird position to take. He played with zero draftable players. How many games would they have one without him?
Not really...they were better the three years before he became their starting QB. Great college QB's almost always elevate the play of their teammates (and make them look better than they actually are). The fact that he didn't elevate the draft stock of any of his teammates says something in and of itself. He's not a starting caliber NFL QB...people are trying to make him one b/c he reminds them of Eli and he was coached by Dave Cutliffe. He's not good!
Gettleman will want to show everyone he is smarter than they are by taking Jones with pick #6. He knows he will be killed for it - he WANTS to be killed for it. He will say that when you believe in someone you get him. He will refer to the Phil Simms pick and the Manning trade. He will say that Jones is the reason they did not take a QB last year. The more I think about it the more I think that he will be the pick.
I don't mind Jones. There is something to be said for hanging in there in tough circumstances vs. the guy who is rarely hit and wins 70-3. IMO Many of the USC QBs failed in the NFL because they never had adversity in college.
I just think we should get him at "fair value". I think a trade down from 6 to draft an OT and Jones in round #1, and go defense the rest of the way might be a good scenario. That said, I won't be disappointed if we miss out on Jones.
Smart QB that knows his role and doesnt have the ego to force throws. This is the Saquan show with a QB who is good/smart enough to hurt you if you over pursue Saquan.
All this adds up to #17, IMO.
So then the rhetorical question is, If he fits, then do you risk losing him at 17? You either think this guy is your long term answer or you don’t.
That is the million dollar question and above my pay grade. I am going to sit back and enjoy being optimistic on whoever we pick.
But, if I am playing armchair GM...yes, I do take that risk bc it allows me to get an elite defensive player.
There is something to be said for hanging in there in tough circumstances vs. the guy who is rarely hit and wins 70-3. IMO Many of the USC QBs failed in the NFL because they never had adversity in college.
Using this logic let's just take the college QB who sucked the most and faced the most adversity in college b/c of it since they're the ones who know how to work through it. Sounds like a smart plan instead of taking the guy with the most talent who actually lead his team to a good record and bowl games.
There is something to be said for hanging in there in tough circumstances vs. the guy who is rarely hit and wins 70-3. IMO Many of the USC QBs failed in the NFL because they never had adversity in college.
Using this logic let's just take the college QB who sucked the most and faced the most adversity in college b/c of it since they're the ones who know how to work through it. Sounds like a smart plan instead of taking the guy with the most talent who actually lead his team to a good record and bowl games.
No that is not the same logic. But then again, logic isnt something we expect from you.
There is something to be said for hanging in there in tough circumstances vs. the guy who is rarely hit and wins 70-3. IMO Many of the USC QBs failed in the NFL because they never had adversity in college.
Using this logic let's just take the college QB who sucked the most and faced the most adversity in college b/c of it since they're the ones who know how to work through it. Sounds like a smart plan instead of taking the guy with the most talent who actually lead his team to a good record and bowl games.
Yes because he said that adversity is the ONLY thing to look for.
There is something to be said for hanging in there in tough circumstances vs. the guy who is rarely hit and wins 70-3. IMO Many of the USC QBs failed in the NFL because they never had adversity in college.
Using this logic let's just take the college QB who sucked the most and faced the most adversity in college b/c of it since they're the ones who know how to work through it. Sounds like a smart plan instead of taking the guy with the most talent who actually lead his team to a good record and bowl games.
Yes because he said that adversity is the ONLY thing to look for.
It's the ONLY thing Jones showed in college to warrant anything close to being drafted in the first two rounds. That's the entire point.
are going to make this board miserable over the next few months if the Giants pick Jones. Constantly whining and moaning and being assholes. Just like they did last offseason when the Giants picked Barkley.
“He’s got a really strong arm. He’s amazingly accurate"... Â
are going to make this board miserable over the next few months if the Giants pick Jones. Constantly whining and moaning and being assholes. Just like they did last offseason when the Giants picked Barkley.
That's a bit unfair, but fine.
While I don't like the value of takings RBs high in the draft, at least Barkley was a player with some serious plus-plus skills.
Nothing of the sort can be said about Jones. Absolutely nothing. He's liking going to Subway and getting a 6" Turkey on wheat with lettuce, tomato, and some mayo. Ordinary.
There is something to be said for hanging in there in tough circumstances vs. the guy who is rarely hit and wins 70-3. IMO Many of the USC QBs failed in the NFL because they never had adversity in college.
Using this logic let's just take the college QB who sucked the most and faced the most adversity in college b/c of it since they're the ones who know how to work through it. Sounds like a smart plan instead of taking the guy with the most talent who actually lead his team to a good record and bowl games.
Yes because he said that adversity is the ONLY thing to look for.
It's the ONLY thing Jones showed in college to warrant anything close to being drafted in the first two rounds. That's the entire point.
I said there is "something to be said" for having done well under adverse conditions. I did not say it is the only thing - or even the most important thing. I don't particularly like Jones. I do think he will be a Giant for better or worse. It worries me that we will reach for him.
Smart QB that knows his role and doesnt have the ego to force throws. This is the Saquan show with a QB who is good/smart enough to hurt you if you over pursue Saquan.
All this adds up to #17, IMO.
So then the rhetorical question is, If he fits, then do you risk losing him at 17? You either think this guy is your long term answer or you don’t.
That is the million dollar question and above my pay grade. I am going to sit back and enjoy being optimistic on whoever we pick.
But, if I am playing armchair GM...yes, I do take that risk bc it allows me to get an elite defensive player.
Quote:
Smart QB that knows his role and doesnt have the ego to force throws. This is the Saquan show with a QB who is good/smart enough to hurt you if you over pursue Saquan.
All this adds up to #17, IMO.
So then the rhetorical question is, If he fits, then do you risk losing him at 17? You either think this guy is your long term answer or you don’t.
That is the million dollar question and above my pay grade. I am going to sit back and enjoy being optimistic on whoever we pick.
But, if I am playing armchair GM...yes, I do take that risk bc it allows me to get an elite defensive player.
Well, you and I can afford to be armchair-ers. :)
Im with Cutcliffe. Live arm.
Its just a shame this negative perception around Jones. Really shows a lack of comprehension.
Im with Cutcliffe. Live arm.
Its just a shame this negative perception around Jones. Really shows a lack of comprehension.
Name me a QB without the last name Manning that Cutcliffe has put in the NFL and been successful.
Quote:
In comment 14398819 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
what this team wants to do on offense.
thats not a 6th pick reason to take him though- maybe at 17.
EXACTLY...he may not be the most talented, in fact we can probably all agree that he is not - but I think he fits how DG sees this team coming together.
Smart QB that knows his role and doesnt have the ego to force throws. This is the Saquan show with a QB who is good/smart enough to hurt you if you over pursue Saquan.
All this adds up to #17, IMO.
You can't pick your franchise QB based on the RB you have. That one of the dumbest ways to build a team. As great a saquon is, he's still a RB. QBs will, hopefully, be leading your team for 15 years, running backs will be lucky to get 6 too tier years. You complement your QB with an RB, not the other way around.
Totally disagree. Saquan is not an RB - he is an offensive weapon.
Teams with elite QBs win Super Bowls.
But so do good, smart QBs with great running games and excellent defenses.
Peyton in Denver
Elway
Early Tom Brady
Ben R (rookie year)
Flacco
Dilfer
Brad Johnson
the list goes on.
thats not a 6th pick reason to take him though- maybe at 17.
6 no, 17 maybe...no trade up
Quote:
The amount of excuses to justify Jones’s play on the field at Duke is the same intensity used by the Eli is God crowd for Eli’s subpar play.
I finally figured bw out!! He's just a conspiratorial nutjob.
Afterall, he claims there was a mandate to keep Eli and build around him, which could just be contained within the walls of "Jints Central", but on Jones, not only are the Giants making "excuses" to justify Jones play, they now have a lot of national beat writers and draftniks doing it too!!
With all of this pull, Mara must be Illuminati??
Great evaluation!!!! Dude is delusional.
I don't see Gudger College but do see Penn State, Michigan, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Iowa, TCU.
Quote:
In comment 14398839 Capt. Don said:
Quote:
In comment 14398819 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
what this team wants to do on offense.
thats not a 6th pick reason to take him though- maybe at 17.
EXACTLY...he may not be the most talented, in fact we can probably all agree that he is not - but I think he fits how DG sees this team coming together.
Smart QB that knows his role and doesnt have the ego to force throws. This is the Saquan show with a QB who is good/smart enough to hurt you if you over pursue Saquan.
All this adds up to #17, IMO.
You can't pick your franchise QB based on the RB you have. That one of the dumbest ways to build a team. As great a saquon is, he's still a RB. QBs will, hopefully, be leading your team for 15 years, running backs will be lucky to get 6 too tier years. You complement your QB with an RB, not the other way around.
Totally disagree. Saquan is not an RB - he is an offensive weapon.
Teams with elite QBs win Super Bowls.
But so do good, smart QBs with great running games and excellent defenses.
Peyton in Denver
Elway
Early Tom Brady
Ben R (rookie year)
Flacco
Dilfer
Brad Johnson
the list goes on.
Though no SB, Favre doesn’t come close to his 30 TD, 4 Int 2010(or something like that) without AP in Minny, imv
I thought Eli looked really good in that video.
However, I havent ever questioned that he has throws left - he does.
The problem is that he needs things to be ideal/perfect in front of him and around his feet. He is a traffic cone back there. He is no longer the 2011 NFC Championship Game version of Eli.
Quote:
In comment 14398839 Capt. Don said:
Quote:
In comment 14398819 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
what this team wants to do on offense.
thats not a 6th pick reason to take him though- maybe at 17.
EXACTLY...he may not be the most talented, in fact we can probably all agree that he is not - but I think he fits how DG sees this team coming together.
Smart QB that knows his role and doesnt have the ego to force throws. This is the Saquan show with a QB who is good/smart enough to hurt you if you over pursue Saquan.
All this adds up to #17, IMO.
You can't pick your franchise QB based on the RB you have. That one of the dumbest ways to build a team. As great a saquon is, he's still a RB. QBs will, hopefully, be leading your team for 15 years, running backs will be lucky to get 6 too tier years. You complement your QB with an RB, not the other way around.
Totally disagree. Saquan is not an RB - he is an offensive weapon.
Teams with elite QBs win Super Bowls.
But so do good, smart QBs with great running games and excellent defenses.
Peyton in Denver
Elway
Early Tom Brady
Ben R (rookie year)
Flacco
Dilfer
Brad Johnson
the list goes on.
If you think your QB needs an all time defense to win, then he's not a first round QB though. Denver, Tampa, Baltimore (both times), and the Steelers had all-time great defenses. If you are banking on that, then Jones isn't worth a first round pick. If that's your strategy, use a first on building that all-time great defense. A QB taken in the first round skulls be expected to win games on his own in his career
Well his arm can get stronger.... but I do agree with the majority of what you wrote.
Since 2008 under Cutcliffe they are:
67-72 (including 31 ACC games & in 2013 they actually won the coastal conf)
3-3 in bowl games, winning 3 in the last 4 years
nationally ranked in 4 of the last 6 years
The typical "everyone plays a bowl game!" doesn't even really hold any water since Duke was pretty much always under .500, which means even if there were always as many bowl games as there are now they still wouldn't have fared any better.
I am not a Duke fan but I root for an ACC team in the coastal and what Cutcliffe has done as a coach is impressive from an opposition pov. And he hasn't done it by all of sudden recruiting better players. They still get very few guys drafted - 5 in the last 10 years as a matter of fact, and 2 of them 7th rounders. He is just a solid, old school coach, especially of QBs - which is why Jones is going to be his 3rd in a row, from Duke, who will make it to an NFL roster. Dave Brown was literally the last Duke QB to make an NFL roster prior to Cutcliffe.
Totally disagree. Saquan is not an RB - he is an offensive weapon.
Teams with elite QBs win Super Bowls.
But so do good, smart QBs with great running games and excellent defenses.
Peyton in Denver
Elway
Early Tom Brady
Ben R (rookie year)
Flacco
Dilfer
Brad Johnson
the list goes on.
If you think your QB needs an all time defense to win, then he's not a first round QB though. Denver, Tampa, Baltimore (both times), and the Steelers had all-time great defenses. If you are banking on that, then Jones isn't worth a first round pick. If that's your strategy, use a first on building that all-time great defense. A QB taken in the first round skulls be expected to win games on his own in his career
Ugh, most of those guys were first round picks but not elite (at least not when they won those Super Bowls).
There is more than one way to build a Super Bowl caliber team and if you think very good, smart quarterbacking is worthy of a mid 1st round pick then we just disagree.
A good, smart QB can be a part of a SB winning team and is worth a mid 1st round pick especially if it is part of a bigger plan (great running game and defense).
As each have different style.
As thickness of skin matters.
Also the intangible which is never easy to measure....
I like that Jones rarely make mistakes and can escape if needed
I like that Lock can fit ball in small spots and improvise
I love Murray quickness
I like Haskin pocket presence
At 6, i really rather a stud edge
At 17, I like them better but prefer a small trade down....
And
I might still like Rosin more for the 37 pick
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Totally disagree. Saquan is not an RB - he is an offensive weapon.
Teams with elite QBs win Super Bowls.
But so do good, smart QBs with great running games and excellent defenses.
Peyton in Denver
Elway
Early Tom Brady
Ben R (rookie year)
Flacco
Dilfer
Brad Johnson
the list goes on.
If you think your QB needs an all time defense to win, then he's not a first round QB though. Denver, Tampa, Baltimore (both times), and the Steelers had all-time great defenses. If you are banking on that, then Jones isn't worth a first round pick. If that's your strategy, use a first on building that all-time great defense. A QB taken in the first round skulls be expected to win games on his own in his career
Ugh, most of those guys were first round picks but not elite (at least not when they won those Super Bowls).
There is more than one way to build a Super Bowl caliber team and if you think very good, smart quarterbacking is worthy of a mid 1st round pick then we just disagree.
A good, smart QB can be a part of a SB winning team and is worth a mid 1st round pick especially if it is part of a bigger plan (great running game and defense).
I guess your and I just disagree with what should be expected from a first round franchise QB. I personally don't think that a great running game and great defense should be needed if you have a franchise QB. He should be able to cover up some flaws, ala Eli 2011. It's why franchise QBs are so valuable, they allow you more room for error elsewhere.
I agree there are other ways to build a Superbowl team, I just don't think a non-franchise QB is worth a 1st round pick. A guy who can't put the team on his back and make up for a mediocre defense and or running game time to time is just only worth so much in my book
I think we go defense at #6 and the TBD at #17 (could be Jones, an OL, someone who dropped suprisingly, etc.).
I'm no draftnik, but I can't see Jones going top 10.
I think he will be there at 17
You make the same excuses for josh rosen at zona last year. Actually you make more excuses for rosen last year since he was fucking terrible. Rookie ? Sure. Bad team ? Sure. He was still terrible, both statistically and in the wins and losses column. Yet there is BW propping up rosen at every turn.
That’s called INCONSISTENCY.
Agree.
Seems to me that's just the lazy ass national media.
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The amount of excuses to justify Jones’s play on the field at Duke is the same intensity used by the Eli is God crowd for Eli’s subpar play.
You make the same excuses for josh rosen at zona last year. Actually you make more excuses for rosen last year since he was fucking terrible. Rookie ? Sure. Bad team ? Sure. He was still terrible, both statistically and in the wins and losses column. Yet there is BW propping up rosen at every turn.
That’s called INCONSISTENCY.
Yes but you didn't have to make those excuses for his college performance! Jones was a 3 year starter at Duke and not once elevated the play of his team. If you can't do that in college you sure as shit ain't doing it in the NFL. I don't believe anybody that actually watched his games believes that he's anything more than a day 3 pick. This has to all be smoke. Even the biggest die-hard homer Duke fans think this talk is insane!
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The amount of excuses to justify Jones’s play on the field at Duke is the same intensity used by the Eli is God crowd for Eli’s subpar play.
You make the same excuses for josh rosen at zona last year. Actually you make more excuses for rosen last year since he was fucking terrible. Rookie ? Sure. Bad team ? Sure. He was still terrible, both statistically and in the wins and losses column. Yet there is BW propping up rosen at every turn.
That’s called INCONSISTENCY.
There’s a stark difference between being on a less talented team in the NFL than in college. In college every player you’re playing against isn’t playing in the NFL, so if you were a franchise QB you should be able to show that more often than not.
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In comment 14398818 bw in dc said:
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The amount of excuses to justify Jones’s play on the field at Duke is the same intensity used by the Eli is God crowd for Eli’s subpar play.
You make the same excuses for josh rosen at zona last year. Actually you make more excuses for rosen last year since he was fucking terrible. Rookie ? Sure. Bad team ? Sure. He was still terrible, both statistically and in the wins and losses column. Yet there is BW propping up rosen at every turn.
That’s called INCONSISTENCY.
Yes but you didn't have to make those excuses for his college performance! Jones was a 3 year starter at Duke and not once elevated the play of his team. If you can't do that in college you sure as shit ain't doing it in the NFL. I don't believe anybody that actually watched his games believes that he's anything more than a day 3 pick. This has to all be smoke. Even the biggest die-hard homer Duke fans think this talk is insane!
Not ONCE elevated the team of his play is a weird position to take. He played with zero draftable players. How many games would they have one without him?
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In comment 14399293 djm said:
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In comment 14398818 bw in dc said:
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The amount of excuses to justify Jones’s play on the field at Duke is the same intensity used by the Eli is God crowd for Eli’s subpar play.
You make the same excuses for josh rosen at zona last year. Actually you make more excuses for rosen last year since he was fucking terrible. Rookie ? Sure. Bad team ? Sure. He was still terrible, both statistically and in the wins and losses column. Yet there is BW propping up rosen at every turn.
That’s called INCONSISTENCY.
Yes but you didn't have to make those excuses for his college performance! Jones was a 3 year starter at Duke and not once elevated the play of his team. If you can't do that in college you sure as shit ain't doing it in the NFL. I don't believe anybody that actually watched his games believes that he's anything more than a day 3 pick. This has to all be smoke. Even the biggest die-hard homer Duke fans think this talk is insane!
Not ONCE elevated the team of his play is a weird position to take. He played with zero draftable players. How many games would they have one without him?
Not really...they were better the three years before he became their starting QB. Great college QB's almost always elevate the play of their teammates (and make them look better than they actually are). The fact that he didn't elevate the draft stock of any of his teammates says something in and of itself. He's not a starting caliber NFL QB...people are trying to make him one b/c he reminds them of Eli and he was coached by Dave Cutliffe. He's not good!
I just honestly feel this Jones hype is a smokescreen.
I don't mind Jones. There is something to be said for hanging in there in tough circumstances vs. the guy who is rarely hit and wins 70-3. IMO Many of the USC QBs failed in the NFL because they never had adversity in college.
I just think we should get him at "fair value". I think a trade down from 6 to draft an OT and Jones in round #1, and go defense the rest of the way might be a good scenario. That said, I won't be disappointed if we miss out on Jones.
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Smart QB that knows his role and doesnt have the ego to force throws. This is the Saquan show with a QB who is good/smart enough to hurt you if you over pursue Saquan.
All this adds up to #17, IMO.
So then the rhetorical question is, If he fits, then do you risk losing him at 17? You either think this guy is your long term answer or you don’t.
That is the million dollar question and above my pay grade. I am going to sit back and enjoy being optimistic on whoever we pick.
But, if I am playing armchair GM...yes, I do take that risk bc it allows me to get an elite defensive player.
Well put I agree.
Using this logic let's just take the college QB who sucked the most and faced the most adversity in college b/c of it since they're the ones who know how to work through it. Sounds like a smart plan instead of taking the guy with the most talent who actually lead his team to a good record and bowl games.
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There is something to be said for hanging in there in tough circumstances vs. the guy who is rarely hit and wins 70-3. IMO Many of the USC QBs failed in the NFL because they never had adversity in college.
Using this logic let's just take the college QB who sucked the most and faced the most adversity in college b/c of it since they're the ones who know how to work through it. Sounds like a smart plan instead of taking the guy with the most talent who actually lead his team to a good record and bowl games.
No that is not the same logic. But then again, logic isnt something we expect from you.
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There is something to be said for hanging in there in tough circumstances vs. the guy who is rarely hit and wins 70-3. IMO Many of the USC QBs failed in the NFL because they never had adversity in college.
Using this logic let's just take the college QB who sucked the most and faced the most adversity in college b/c of it since they're the ones who know how to work through it. Sounds like a smart plan instead of taking the guy with the most talent who actually lead his team to a good record and bowl games.
Yes because he said that adversity is the ONLY thing to look for.
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In comment 14399473 Reale01 said:
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There is something to be said for hanging in there in tough circumstances vs. the guy who is rarely hit and wins 70-3. IMO Many of the USC QBs failed in the NFL because they never had adversity in college.
Using this logic let's just take the college QB who sucked the most and faced the most adversity in college b/c of it since they're the ones who know how to work through it. Sounds like a smart plan instead of taking the guy with the most talent who actually lead his team to a good record and bowl games.
Yes because he said that adversity is the ONLY thing to look for.
It's the ONLY thing Jones showed in college to warrant anything close to being drafted in the first two rounds. That's the entire point.
Someone's play was obviously elevated.
The irony isn't lost on me that Josh ranted all last year about not taking Darnold, but now he's shitting all over Jones.
When we take a QB, I guess it will be the WRONG one.
There's his idea of logic....
There are 41 bowl games, 82 teams. And the Power Five dominate the selections. So making a bowl game isn't quite what it used to be...
He's amazingly accurate....except he has a career completion percentage of 59.9% and his highest single season total was three years ago?
I applaud Cutcliffe supporting his player but reality has a place in this conversation too right?
That's a bit unfair, but fine.
While I don't like the value of takings RBs high in the draft, at least Barkley was a player with some serious plus-plus skills.
Nothing of the sort can be said about Jones. Absolutely nothing. He's liking going to Subway and getting a 6" Turkey on wheat with lettuce, tomato, and some mayo. Ordinary.
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In comment 14399521 Josh in the City said:
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In comment 14399473 Reale01 said:
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There is something to be said for hanging in there in tough circumstances vs. the guy who is rarely hit and wins 70-3. IMO Many of the USC QBs failed in the NFL because they never had adversity in college.
Using this logic let's just take the college QB who sucked the most and faced the most adversity in college b/c of it since they're the ones who know how to work through it. Sounds like a smart plan instead of taking the guy with the most talent who actually lead his team to a good record and bowl games.
Yes because he said that adversity is the ONLY thing to look for.
It's the ONLY thing Jones showed in college to warrant anything close to being drafted in the first two rounds. That's the entire point.
I said there is "something to be said" for having done well under adverse conditions. I did not say it is the only thing - or even the most important thing. I don't particularly like Jones. I do think he will be a Giant for better or worse. It worries me that we will reach for him.
Duke went 8-5 and won a bowl game over Temple, a year after winning their bowl game too.
If Duke's roster is so bereft of talent, Jones clearly did something to keep them from being doormats.