I don't know how much evidence and film study it takes for people to realize this guy isn't a 1st [or even a 2nd] round talent. He was an average college QB who never made the players around him better. His college team had a better record the three years prior to him ever becoming the starter. He wasn't even in the conversation for a day 1 or 2 pick until after the season yet he hasn't done anything since then to impress. He had a poor senior bowl week and an average combine.
The ONLY two reasons this guy is mentioned as a potential first round target is b/c his personality and demeanor remind people of Eli Manning (and thus able to handle the NY media) and b/c he was coached by David Cutliffe. That's it.
Drafting this guy in the first round would be the biggest draft day mistake since we took Dave Brown in the 1992 supplemental draft.
I have to believe this is all a smokescreen b/c there is no other explanation for even considering him on Thursday night.
I just don't see how you make the case for Jones at 6 or 17 Â
with the players in this draft. That would be forcing the pick.
If scouts couldn't agree that last year's available QBs were worth a top ten pick, then it would be almost impossible to believe that a player like Jones versus the defensive and OL talent potentially available at 6 or 17 has won over the scouts.
Brian Baldinger went through these issues last week on NFLN. He was very bearish on Jones's decision making, especially when he needed to fit the ball into tighter windows. Which doesn't bode well to the faster game of the NFL.
The Eli comparison needs to stop. Eli's arm was/is superior to Jones's. It's not even close. Jones is a bigger version of Andy Dalton.
Take Jones because of his connection to the Mannings and because he can be a good "game manager", then get ready for a lot of mediocre football. Hearing that he has limited talent but can be a guy who keeps the game under control is a mid round prospect. You do not spend the 6th pick in the draft on a qb whose ceiling is game manager.
Brian Baldinger went through these issues last week on NFLN. He was very bearish on Jones's decision making, especially when he needed to fit the ball into tighter windows. Which doesn't bode well to the faster game of the NFL.
The Eli comparison needs to stop. Eli's arm was/is superior to Jones's. It's not even close. Jones is a bigger version of Andy Dalton.
Problem is we are dealing with the same front office who didn't see an issue with Kyle Lauletta's arm.
The ceiling just isn't there - and you can see that almost all of the mistakes occur when he's trying to throw out routes. I have serious concerns about his ability to drive the ball outside the hashmarks and think he's going to turn the ball over a lot on those throws.
A lot of patting the ball before he releases it and doesn't show great anticipation.
I agree big time with the sentiment that he possesses many of Eli's "poor" traits, and only a few of his good ones.
Eli processed the field much faster and was more of a complete package. He had less questions on his arm. There are similarities... Jones looks like a Peyton/Eli hybrid - but it doesn't mean he'll perform like one.
Like many others have said... the upside seems limited with Jones and I'm not sure he has the toolbox to be better than an "average" NFL starter. Is that what we should be spending the 6th pick on?
I wouldn't.
But all of the Manning comparisons and Cutcliffe mentions make me worry that the Giants may see it differently.
Problem is we are dealing with the same front office who didn't see an issue with Kyle Lauletta's arm.
But at least Lauletta was properly placed - the 4th round.
Jones as the 6th pick, the 17th pick, and I think even the second round, would definitely set off alarms that this organization can't be trusted to evaluate the QB position.
Everytime I watched Daniel Jones last year I left with the impression that he struggles to throw the ball to the sideline. Now either he figures out how to work in the NFL or he is going to he a pick 6 machine. There was another thread where a poster who showed him throwing a deep ball and said don't see any arm strength issues there. That isn't the issue! It you can't threaten the sidelines than you better have some other skill like Lamar, who I am not sold on either for same issue, that can mask that deficieny. Lamar is at least wildly inaccurate to.the sideline, Daniel Jones seems like he's going to throw lots of tds to the other team. I'm not buying the high celling moniker many have given him. I think his floor is Nathan Peterman.
I'll take it one step further. Eli's arm TODAY is better than Jones' arm. At the time he was drafted is was vastly superior.
Agreed. When Eli can get his feet set, he still has a very good NFL arm. He just doesn't have the ability - not that he ever had it in big supply - to throw the ball with that zip when conditions break down and those mechanics can't be executed. And even under those situations, his arm is still better than Jones's.
The Eli comparison needs to stop. Eli's arm was/is superior to Jones's. It's not even close. Jones is a bigger version of Andy Dalton.
I'll take it one step further. Eli's arm TODAY is better than Jones' arm. At the time he was drafted is was vastly superior.
I don't get why people don't know Eli has an above average NFL arm and has always had one. His spirals are not pretty sometimes because of his release but he has a cannon. People were surprised and all wow over highlights from an ELi practice video. Maybe we just have not seen him get to set his feet in games like he can when no one is rushing him.
The ceiling just isn't there - and you can see that almost all of the mistakes occur when he's trying to throw out routes. I have serious concerns about his ability to drive the ball outside the hashmarks and think he's going to turn the ball over a lot on those throws.
A lot of patting the ball before he releases it and doesn't show great anticipation.
I agree big time with the sentiment that he possesses many of Eli's "poor" traits, and only a few of his good ones.
Eli processed the field much faster and was more of a complete package. He had less questions on his arm. There are similarities... Jones looks like a Peyton/Eli hybrid - but it doesn't mean he'll perform like one.
Like many others have said... the upside seems limited with Jones and I'm not sure he has the toolbox to be better than an "average" NFL starter. Is that what we should be spending the 6th pick on?
I wouldn't.
But all of the Manning comparisons and Cutcliffe mentions make me worry that the Giants may see it differently.
Agreed. Jones like all the other QBs is being grossly overvalued the closer we get to the draft. it's because teams are desperate for a franchise QB. It happens almost every year.
Everytime I watched Daniel Jones last year I left with the impression that he struggles to throw the ball to the sideline. Now either he figures out how to work in the NFL or he is going to he a pick 6 machine. There was another thread where a poster who showed him throwing a deep ball and said don't see any arm strength issues there. That isn't the issue! It you can't threaten the sidelines than you better have some other skill like Lamar, who I am not sold on either for same issue, that can mask that deficieny. Lamar is at least wildly inaccurate to.the sideline, Daniel Jones seems like he's going to throw lots of tds to the other team. I'm not buying the high celling moniker many have given him. I think his floor is Nathan Peterman.
Yep... if we're taking a QB @ 6, I really hope it's Haskins and not this guy. I really don't see a 1st rd. QB here.
But, if NYG takes him, I'll hope like heck I'm wrong.
Brian Baldinger went through these issues last week on NFLN. He was very bearish on Jones's decision making, especially when he needed to fit the ball into tighter windows. Which doesn't bode well to the faster game of the NFL.
The Eli comparison needs to stop. Eli's arm was/is superior to Jones's. It's not even close. Jones is a bigger version of Andy Dalton.
Problem is we are dealing with the same front office who didn't see an issue with Kyle Lauletta's arm.
Eric - I think they saw the arm, but he was a fourth round draft pick. That's the type of player that goes in the 4th round. They projected what he could become...and who knows, let's see how he looks in camp this year.
I'd be concerned about his hesitation to throw the ball, but I wonder how much of that had to do with a lack of confidence in his receivers, or them simply being overmatched. For instance, on the out route against Va Tech (around 2:35 of the video) the receiver is jogging and rounding off his route. Terrible.
When it comes to the next QB, I'm only thinking about a 5 year window; it's pretty unlikely that any QB we draft will be worth paying in 4-5 years. I'm looking for one of two types of QB:
1. A QB that is going to use his athleticism to change the way teams have to defend him; or
2. A QB that is going to get the ball to the right place at the right time, and in rhythm.
Jones is the latter type. If Eli weren't here I'd be fine with taking him at #6. Eli's being here is the only reason I wouldn't.
I don't think the Giants have the balls to take a QB at 6 Â
I don't know how much evidence and film study it takes for people to realize this guy isn't a 1st [or even a 2nd] round talent. He was an average college QB who never made the players around him better. His college team had a better record the three years prior to him ever becoming the starter. He wasn't even in the conversation for a day 1 or 2 pick until after the season yet he hasn't done anything since then to impress. He had a poor senior bowl week and an average combine.
The ONLY two reasons this guy is mentioned as a potential first round target is b/c his personality and demeanor remind people of Eli Manning (and thus able to handle the NY media) and b/c he was coached by David Cutliffe. That's it.
Drafting this guy in the first round would be the biggest draft day mistake since we took Dave Brown in the 1992 supplemental draft.
I have to believe this is all a smokescreen b/c there is no other explanation for even considering him on Thursday night.
I'm glad you're getting started on your annual draft whining a full week ahead of schedule this year.
I don't know how much evidence and film study it takes for people to realize this guy isn't a 1st [or even a 2nd] round talent. He was an average college QB who never made the players around him better. His college team had a better record the three years prior to him ever becoming the starter. He wasn't even in the conversation for a day 1 or 2 pick until after the season yet he hasn't done anything since then to impress. He had a poor senior bowl week and an average combine.
The ONLY two reasons this guy is mentioned as a potential first round target is b/c his personality and demeanor remind people of Eli Manning (and thus able to handle the NY media) and b/c he was coached by David Cutliffe. That's it.
Drafting this guy in the first round would be the biggest draft day mistake since we took Dave Brown in the 1992 supplemental draft.
I have to believe this is all a smokescreen b/c there is no other explanation for even considering him on Thursday night.
I'm glad you're getting started on your annual draft whining a full week ahead of schedule this year.
Having a strong opinion based on actually watching the games is whining? LOL ok. Maybe you should learn to formulate an original opinion and state it with conviction instead of just buying whatever narrative the Giants choose to sell you. Your malleable stance on the team's offseason moves makes your opinion worthless. I'll stick to my 'whining' 🙄.
I'm going to cut out a few clips and make a Youtube Â
scouting video. I'm going to pick and choose passes and show that Geno Smith is better than Mahomes. Then the pro-Geno crowd can crow about how much I know
I have to wonder, how would Brady be viewed if he were entering this draft? We already know he went late in the draft way back when but, what would college Tom Brady be viewed as coming out now? 6th rd pick or priority FA?
I don't know how much evidence and film study it takes for people to realize this guy isn't a 1st [or even a 2nd] round talent. He was an average college QB who never made the players around him better. His college team had a better record the three years prior to him ever becoming the starter. He wasn't even in the conversation for a day 1 or 2 pick until after the season yet he hasn't done anything since then to impress. He had a poor senior bowl week and an average combine.
The ONLY two reasons this guy is mentioned as a potential first round target is b/c his personality and demeanor remind people of Eli Manning (and thus able to handle the NY media) and b/c he was coached by David Cutliffe. That's it.
Drafting this guy in the first round would be the biggest draft day mistake since we took Dave Brown in the 1992 supplemental draft.
I have to believe this is all a smokescreen b/c there is no other explanation for even considering him on Thursday night.
I'm glad you're getting started on your annual draft whining a full week ahead of schedule this year.
Having a strong opinion based on actually watching the games is whining? LOL ok. Maybe you should learn to formulate an original opinion and state it with conviction instead of just buying whatever narrative the Giants choose to sell you. Your malleable stance on the team's offseason moves makes your opinion worthless. I'll stick to my 'whining' 🙄.
You already have the Giants drafting a player you don't like and are already bashing them for drafting a player you don't like even though they didn't and the draft is a couple days away. Chill.
RE: I'm going to cut out a few clips and make a Youtube Â
scouting video. I'm going to pick and choose passes and show that Geno Smith is better than Mahomes. Then the pro-Geno crowd can crow about how much I know
Or you could just craft an intelligent argument that perhaps illustrates why you feel Gold is wrong in his evaluation and back it up... but, nah... that would actually be harder than just taking shots from the balcony about what he knows or doesn't know.
And yes, I actually agree with the sentiment that Eli Manning today has a better NFL arm than Jones does.
100% believe that.
Absolutely.
Again, I ask: in what way is Daniel Jones significantly better than Ryan Finley? Why is one considered a 2nd-4th round pick and the other considered to be a potential top ten pick? They are very similar players.
Over the weekend. Just to see how he looked compared to the videos I’ve been watching of these guys. One, it’s notable how many Eli things he does, throwing off his back foot, really relying on his arm more than his lower body, just stuff we have seen over the years with the Giants.
But what was really notable was that he is fucking slinging the ball around. Jones does not look like a similar physical talent to my eyes. Eli has a bigger arm than he gets credit for and it was evident.
RE: RE: I'm going to cut out a few clips and make a Youtube Â
scouting video. I'm going to pick and choose passes and show that Geno Smith is better than Mahomes. Then the pro-Geno crowd can crow about how much I know
Or you could just craft an intelligent argument that perhaps illustrates why you feel Gold is wrong in his evaluation and back it up... but, nah... that would actually be harder than just taking shots from the balcony about what he knows or doesn't know.
No one here is listening to anyone's arguments. Its like politics now, no one is changing their position. What I know is that he took a crappy Duke team to an 8 win season and a bowl game. I also know that a lot of scouts and experts, who know a lot more than I do, like him and think he's rising up the board. If the Giants like him than I am good. He looks the part, and they are down into the mechanics, talent, and mindset, not me.
I am not one of these posters who thinks they know everything because they watch a stupid video like this one. As i stated jokingly above, anyone can create a video to prove any point they want to make. I could grab all his best throws, and create a case that he should be the top pick. Its all crap put out by wann-a-be nfl scouts.
I have to wonder, how would Brady be viewed if he were entering this draft? We already know he went late in the draft way back when but, what would college Tom Brady be viewed as coming out now? 6th rd pick or priority FA?
He'd probably be viewed the same. Brady wasn't at all a finished product when he was draft eligible. It's not like a Russell Wilson situation where the guy was simply excellent in college and somehow fell through the cracks. Brady was far from a blue chip prospect.
I don't know how much evidence and film study it takes for people to realize this guy isn't a 1st [or even a 2nd] round talent. He was an average college QB who never made the players around him better. His college team had a better record the three years prior to him ever becoming the starter. He wasn't even in the conversation for a day 1 or 2 pick until after the season yet he hasn't done anything since then to impress. He had a poor senior bowl week and an average combine.
The ONLY two reasons this guy is mentioned as a potential first round target is b/c his personality and demeanor remind people of Eli Manning (and thus able to handle the NY media) and b/c he was coached by David Cutliffe. That's it.
Drafting this guy in the first round would be the biggest draft day mistake since we took Dave Brown in the 1992 supplemental draft.
I have to believe this is all a smokescreen b/c there is no other explanation for even considering him on Thursday night.
I'm glad you're getting started on your annual draft whining a full week ahead of schedule this year.
Having a strong opinion based on actually watching the games is whining? LOL ok. Maybe you should learn to formulate an original opinion and state it with conviction instead of just buying whatever narrative the Giants choose to sell you. Your malleable stance on the team's offseason moves makes your opinion worthless. I'll stick to my 'whining' 🙄.
You already have the Giants drafting a player you don't like and are already bashing them for drafting a player you don't like even though they didn't and the draft is a couple days away. Chill.
Not true at all. I love Saquon Barkley, I root like hell for him and believe he will be a surefire hall of famer. I was (and I'm still) against drafting him at #2 overall in what was considered one of the best QB draft classes in a long time when we had a clear need at QB. I had the same opinion a week before the draft as I do today...it hasn't changed and I state that when it comes up on threads. That's not whining, it's just my opinion on the move.
As for Daniel Jones, I have a strong opinion about his inability to become a good starting QB in the NFL. I will continue to state that opinion through the draft and if we take him I'll hope like hell I'm wrong. Fingers crossed...
And yes, I actually agree with the sentiment that Eli Manning today has a better NFL arm than Jones does.
100% believe that.
Absolutely.
Again, I ask: in what way is Daniel Jones significantly better than Ryan Finley? Why is one considered a 2nd-4th round pick and the other considered to be a potential top ten pick? They are very similar players.
I've posed the same question several times.
Yet to see anyone really give a good explanation of what makes Jones a 1st round pick and Finley a 3rd. They have many of the same strengths and weaknesses. They are similar in size.
To me, it's hard to really tell why there's such a gap in the way they're graded. I assume I must be missing something.
He seems o be getting a bump up based heavily on the David Cutcliffe Â
doesn't pay much attention to what's in vogue and being coached and taught in CFB these days.
The same quality of QB and OL play even from five years ago, is missing. CFB has become a game where you need to be able to drop 40 points at will to win a game.
And yes, I actually agree with the sentiment that Eli Manning today has a better NFL arm than Jones does.
100% believe that.
Absolutely.
Again, I ask: in what way is Daniel Jones significantly better than Ryan Finley? Why is one considered a 2nd-4th round pick and the other considered to be a potential top ten pick? They are very similar players.
Personally I'd have Finley over Lock and Haskins. I don't want any part of either of those two. I hear Dave Te comparing Lock to Jay Cutler and Haskins admitted he showed up to the most important job interview of his life out of shape.
Remember Belichick: "Talent sets the floor. Success is not all about talent. It’s about dependability, consistency, being coachable, and understanding what you need to do to improve.”
Yet to see anyone really give a good explanation of what makes Jones a 1st round pick and Finley a 3rd. They have many of the same strengths and weaknesses. They are similar in size.
To me, it's hard to really tell why there's such a gap in the way they're graded. I assume I must be missing something.
Here's THE only reason for me - Cutcliffe.
Ryan completed 66% of his passes the last two years. And he has very good size, too.
His age could be a concern turning 26 in December. To some, not me, that is flag of some sort...
With the Jones bashing. To this day he's one of the best talent evaluators in the league and he LOVES Jones. It's not just the Giants. Many in the league like him. He's going in the first round, most likely top 20, despite the nonsense on this thread. I have no issue if you don't like him, some like Haskins, I don't. It makes the draft great but don't lose sight of the fact the kid is liked in league circles and you could be wrong
With the Jones bashing. To this day he's one of the best talent evaluators in the league and he LOVES Jones. It's not just the Giants. Many in the league like him. He's going in the first round, most likely top 20, despite the nonsense on this thread. I have no issue if you don't like him, some like Haskins, I don't. It makes the draft great but don't lose sight of the fact the kid is liked in league circles and you could be wrong
Who is one of the best talent evaluators. And how do you know many in the league like him? B/c that's what leaked a week before the draft? And what about his talent impresses you> Or is it just poise and the fact he's faced adversity?
For the record, I watch games and tape of these guys, ALOT. I like lock and Jones out of this year's crop. Don't love them. No way I'd take either at 6. To be honest, you know my feelings, I wouldn't take a qb this year but the Giants might. I'm not defending Jones, per se, but am stating a fact that people in the league love him. Girl Brandt is very respected in nfl circles. His opinion isn't alone
Last year and they went 3-5. The bowl game? Yeh look who they played, when they played them, and what went down. Temple was in total dissaray. This is the problem, people repeat arguments they hear without any context, but those of us that actually watch a ton of college football know it's BS.
Jones did remarkable considering the talent around him. His team reminds me of the ole miss team eli had. He had no help. He was getting hit every play. I think he's tough, smart, poised, unflappable and has a better arm then you think. We saw that at combine. Again, I agree w you, I wouldn't take any qb this year but I'd say he's definitely going in the first round
With the Jones bashing. To this day he's one of the best talent evaluators in the league and he LOVES Jones. It's not just the Giants. Many in the league like him. He's going in the first round, most likely top 20, despite the nonsense on this thread. I have no issue if you don't like him, some like Haskins, I don't. It makes the draft great but don't lose sight of the fact the kid is liked in league circles and you could be wrong
Who is one of the best talent evaluators. And how do you know many in the league like him? B/c that's what leaked a week before the draft? And what about his talent impresses you> Or is it just poise and the fact he's faced adversity?
Do you have any scouting experience? Youtube, notwithstanding. As a fan, all you have to go by is what you read from people who have an actual educated opinion. The tape does no good if you're not educated as far as what you're looking at. I trust PS with QBs and i'll let him make the decision as far as the skill set he wants to run his offense
JT I agree with you he's tough, smart, poised and unflappable. Â
I still stand by my statement that he struggles to throw to sidelines and doesn't show enough anticipation to make up for it. Maybe that changes at the NFL level, but it is a major major projection. I think Jones makes a lot more sense in the second round to a team that can use up his value on a rookie deal. I just don't see how the guy is worth a second contract when you have a ton of his caliber being puked up by college football now.
If you think that duke was mediocre your lost. They were horrid. Be fair
This is where we will have to disagree. Yeh his receivers suck, but Cutcliffe has that team playing respectable football. Way past the yester year of Duke's one win football teams
All due respect, im very educated in football, you seem not to be. If you were you woukd know rule number 1. This is an inexact science, trust your eyes, no two people agree on a player. It's what makes the draft great. You don't like the guy great. Dont attack those that see it different. Neither one of us has gil brands experience. I promise you. He thinks he's the next payton manning
I don't know how much evidence and film study it takes for people to realize this guy isn't a 1st [or even a 2nd] round talent. He was an average college QB who never made the players around him better. His college team had a better record the three years prior to him ever becoming the starter. He wasn't even in the conversation for a day 1 or 2 pick until after the season yet he hasn't done anything since then to impress. He had a poor senior bowl week and an average combine.
The ONLY two reasons this guy is mentioned as a potential first round target is b/c his personality and demeanor remind people of Eli Manning (and thus able to handle the NY media) and b/c he was coached by David Cutliffe. That's it.
Drafting this guy in the first round would be the biggest draft day mistake since we took Dave Brown in the 1992 supplemental draft.
I have to believe this is all a smokescreen b/c there is no other explanation for even considering him on Thursday night.
I'm glad you're getting started on your annual draft whining a full week ahead of schedule this year.
Having a strong opinion based on actually watching the games is whining? LOL ok. Maybe you should learn to formulate an original opinion and state it with conviction instead of just buying whatever narrative the Giants choose to sell you. Your malleable stance on the team's offseason moves makes your opinion worthless. I'll stick to my 'whining' 🙄.
Yup, that's me! Mr. Malleable who goes along with what the Giants choose to sell me! Do you even read this board?
And yes, you whine like a child every single year during and after the draft. This year you've preemptively started whining before the draft, which feels like a step in the wrong direction.
You can call what you do formulating an original opinion. My original opinion is that you act like a child every year when the draft rolls around. Maybe the Giants sold that opinion to me though, I can't be sure.
Of course Duke talent isn't as good, but Cutcliffe has them playing Â
I didn't mean that thread as a shot at you. I'm just saying, even if your just a fan, trust your eyes. You know more then you give yourself credit for
i was talking to Josh, not you. I feel good about my eyes, but at the end of the day- coaches tape is different and they obviously get way more info to make a proper eval- thats all im saying
Ole Miss didn't have a great supporting cast either, especially considering the higher level of competition in the SEC vs the ACC. Although they had some pretty good linemen, particularly Chris Spencer, none of Eli's skill position teammates were drafted (unless you count Deuce McAllister, who was a senior when Eli was a freshman backup). Yet Eli's college performance blows Jones' out of the water.
He should not be drafted until late second or early third... Â
Daniel Jones has a high floor and low ceiling and is not worth a first round pick. At least three quarterbacks in this draft will be better risks than a first round Daniel Jones when the Giants make their picks at either #95 or #108.
Gettleman is way too smart to make such an egregious first round reach...
I have no idea what I'm seeing in that tape. Well of course I know Â
what I'm seeing and what I'm being told to see. Again I have no idea if or where he should be drafted but those "mistakes" weren't any different than I see on any given Sunday. Now I realize the speed of the NFL is different so maybe that would magnify the supposed weakness but I think most of the people on this sight don't know what they are seeing either. All I can say is before pick 17 comes many people better give their remotes to another family member just in case.
Plus Haskins becomes a great QB, like I think he will with my limited knowledge, BUT, I live near Cinncy and watched every game he QB'd last season. So unlike the morons on here that look at video highlights to pass judgement and the stupidest judgement tool of all the NFL combine, at least I watched him play every week. If a QB who has a quick release, makes quick and accurate decisions, and has a accurate arm and a cannon for an arm. If that is the player that is horrible, then sign me up for horrible, because that is what Haskins is, and I watched him complete more passes moving to his left then I ever saw on the college level, because he is a pass first, second, and third QB, not a running QB at all, but he does not need to be with his tools. The Giants pass on him and are wrong, they deserve to be what they once were, the laughing stocks of football.
But I just don't see it. Eli was throwing the ball downfield much more than Jones. And that was also in Cutcliffe's O. And Jones has averaged about 130 rushing attempts per year to Eli's 35. So Jones was using his athleticism a lot more based on design.
And I'm in the camp that Eli's velocity was noticeably better than Jones.
Maybe you are seeing something in their mannerisms that I don't see. Because with the Cutcliffe factor, I wonder if this would even be talked about...
RE: Who is this guy talking, and why should we believe his opinion more Â
With the Jones bashing. To this day he's one of the best talent evaluators in the league and he LOVES Jones. It's not just the Giants. Many in the league like him. He's going in the first round, most likely top 20, despite the nonsense on this thread. I have no issue if you don't like him, some like Haskins, I don't. It makes the draft great but don't lose sight of the fact the kid is liked in league circles and you could be wrong
Here'smyissue:
SOmeonhere are making the generic statement thta Jones "ismoving up on draft boards."
SUre on some he is -- but on soem he isn't. When you throw that out as -- unless you cna prove it's a consensus it really is a hollow statement.
He's not moving up on David Te's baord. Greg Cossell last I knew still had him at 4thrated QB in which he moved up Lock -- but kept Jones at 4. Maybe he did more.
PFF had him graded as a 3rd rounder saying teams will be desperate/. IMO Billick implied Jones isn;t worth a 1st rounder. Mayock mentioned when asked about jones moving up he spoke to the scouts he knew and they told him he wasn't moving up on their boards.
RE: Gettleman when asked if there were Super Bowl Winning Â
All due respect, im very educated in football, you seem not to be. If you were you woukd know rule number 1. This is an inexact science, trust your eyes, no two people agree on a player. It's what makes the draft great. You don't like the guy great. Dont attack those that see it different. Neither one of us has gil brands experience. I promise you. He thinks he's the next payton manning
You;ve used Gil Brandt more than once on here. Others will use David Te.
For me -- I'd use Gil Brandt -- but I'd also use Gil Brandt of 2018. In that he had Rosen as the number 2 overall.
You dont like him but a lot of people did including Gil Brant. I could use GiL Brandt and possibly assume he still holds Rosen high - at least probably higher than Jones. Thus I'd take Rosen and just not worry about Jones and where he's ranked.
To say Jones was on an overmatched team is fair. It’s absurd to say he has anywhere near the level of talent as Eli. Eli led Ole Miss to several huge wins. Jones was horrific as Duke got pasted by WF at home. Eli was also much more accurate at Ole Miss than Jones was at Duke.
Watch Jones throw, and you’ll notice the ball simply lacks the zip it has coming out of the hands of the other top QBs.
I have to wonder, how would Brady be viewed if he were entering this draft? We already know he went late in the draft way back when but, what would college Tom Brady be viewed as coming out now? 6th rd pick or priority FA?
Since Brady was drafted, as a one-year starter with "the worst quarterback body ever," there have probably been 100 guys who seemed to be about what he was when he left Michigan. Nobody's come close to elevating his game the way he did.
He's such an outlier he's not even a useful reference.
I don't know how much evidence and film study it takes for people to realize this guy isn't a 1st [or even a 2nd] round talent. He was an average college QB who never made the players around him better. His college team had a better record the three years prior to him ever becoming the starter. He wasn't even in the conversation for a day 1 or 2 pick until after the season yet he hasn't done anything since then to impress. He had a poor senior bowl week and an average combine.
The ONLY two reasons this guy is mentioned as a potential first round target is b/c his personality and demeanor remind people of Eli Manning (and thus able to handle the NY media) and b/c he was coached by David Cutliffe. That's it.
Drafting this guy in the first round would be the biggest draft day mistake since we took Dave Brown in the 1992 supplemental draft.
I have to believe this is all a smokescreen b/c there is no other explanation for even considering him on Thursday night.
I'm glad you're getting started on your annual draft whining a full week ahead of schedule this year.
Having a strong opinion based on actually watching the games is whining? LOL ok. Maybe you should learn to formulate an original opinion and state it with conviction instead of just buying whatever narrative the Giants choose to sell you. Your malleable stance on the team's offseason moves makes your opinion worthless. I'll stick to my 'whining' 🙄.
Yup, that's me! Mr. Malleable who goes along with what the Giants choose to sell me! Do you even read this board?
And yes, you whine like a child every single year during and after the draft. This year you've preemptively started whining before the draft, which feels like a step in the wrong direction.
You can call what you do formulating an original opinion. My original opinion is that you act like a child every year when the draft rolls around. Maybe the Giants sold that opinion to me though, I can't be sure.
You should change your handle to Mr. Malleable so that when you post it’s clear to everyone how worthless your posts are. And yes, I’ll continue stating my opinion and I’ll stick to it. Saquon Barkley was the wrong pick over Sam Darnold last year and Daniel Jones will never be an upper echelon QB in the NFL. But for us to get your opinion, we’ll just wait to see what the Giants do 🤣
For what (I think) the Giants are trying to achieve on offense, Jones is the best fit of these QBs. You don't want a freelancer like Lock, and you don't want someone with bad feet like Haskins.
We want the ball being delivered accurately and quickly to Barkley and tight ends on 3 step drops and rollouts in big personnel packages - Daniel Jones is the best fit in that type of offense. IMO the comp to look at is Sam Bradford's work with Shurmur in Philly and Minnesota. Short to intermediate accuracy and timing...it's a fit.
My only issue is doing it with Eli still on the roster. But given he's as close to an Eli clone as it gets, I don't know that we'd be looking at an acrimonious QB controversy if the season goes sideways.
And to me the quote of the offseason came from Sy: if the Giants like Jones in round 1 they aren't going to wait until 17 to take him.
there's a reason the Patriots like Jones too. Their offense is based on throwing the ball short to TEs and RBs, because they know those high percentage throws are how you stay in favorable down/distance and how you score in the red zone.
One thing about Jones's pro day that did impress me (and swung me to the realization that he may be our guy) was his performance in red zone throws. They were quick, tight, and accurate. The throws to the back of the end zone were high, just like they're supposed to be. The footwork was excellent.
Wherever he goes, I'll be interested to see how his career develops. People are saying he has the lowest ceiling, but I disagree completely. I think his ceiling can be very, very high in the right situation.
My problem with Jones is and has always been the limitations.
I think he can do all of those things well enough, but I feel like Murray, Haskins, and Lock all have much higher ceilings.
On the same token, I absolutely think those 3 guys are probably more volatile prospects with higher bust potential.
Murray's size/hands/commitment/competiton... Haskins' footwork, conditioning, and protection.... Lock's inconsistency, struggles with short range accuracy and poor performances against the cream of the crop, etc.
I do think the offense needs to go more heavy-set and run through Barkley first and foremost. I want to develop an offense that imposes their will the way we were in 2008 when we were steamrolling people and punching tough defenses like Baltimore in the mouth harder than they could hit us back.
My worry with Jones is that his lack of drive outside the hashes and being more of a "touch" passer is going to box our offense in. I think we'll see a lot of really heavy boxes. Teams are going to say "we're not letting Saquon Barkley eat us up all day... we're going to make Daniel Jones prove he can loosen the defense and make throws down the field."
Based on what I've seen, my concern is that he won't be able to do that.
I also feel like Haskins can handle all of the same short/intermediate throws just as well as Jones - if not better. Haskins is better at putting the ball in tighter windows and he seems to throw passes with anticipation - to a spot where his WR will be out of his break - whereas Jones seems to need to see the guy come open before he lets it rip. And... that one extra patting of the football before he delivers it could be the difference between a completion and 6 points going the other way.
Haskins' feet seem to get much sloppier on deeper routes or plays where he's forced to leave the pocket and reset his feet. But I think he's pretty money on the shorter and intermediate stuff. And I think his football IQ can lead him further.
I just keep hearing things like "limited" and "average" when it comes to Jones, I see a lot of locking onto one read, etc... and I don't want to see us reach for a QB who has those things attached to his name as much as they seem to be attached to Jones.
I get it - if you love the QB, you don't punt on him @ 6 and pray he's still there 11 picks later. So, if the Giants are just totally sold on Jones and take him @ 6, so be it.
My major concern is the value not being there.
I'd hate to see us pass on a defensive player who could really be a game changer so that we can spend 4 years being wishy washy on Daniel Jones and being unsure about whether or not he's "the guy"
And it wouldn't surprise me at all to see a guy like Jones succeed in NE - but I think a lot of guys can/do succeed there that won't succeed elsewhere.
My problem with Jones is and has always been the limitations.
I think he can do all of those things well enough, but I feel like Murray, Haskins, and Lock all have much higher ceilings.
On the same token, I absolutely think those 3 guys are probably more volatile prospects with higher bust potential.
Murray's size/hands/commitment/competiton... Haskins' footwork, conditioning, and protection.... Lock's inconsistency, struggles with short range accuracy and poor performances against the cream of the crop, etc.
I do think the offense needs to go more heavy-set and run through Barkley first and foremost. I want to develop an offense that imposes their will the way we were in 2008 when we were steamrolling people and punching tough defenses like Baltimore in the mouth harder than they could hit us back.
My worry with Jones is that his lack of drive outside the hashes and being more of a "touch" passer is going to box our offense in. I think we'll see a lot of really heavy boxes. Teams are going to say "we're not letting Saquon Barkley eat us up all day... we're going to make Daniel Jones prove he can loosen the defense and make throws down the field."
Based on what I've seen, my concern is that he won't be able to do that.
I also feel like Haskins can handle all of the same short/intermediate throws just as well as Jones - if not better. Haskins is better at putting the ball in tighter windows and he seems to throw passes with anticipation - to a spot where his WR will be out of his break - whereas Jones seems to need to see the guy come open before he lets it rip. And... that one extra patting of the football before he delivers it could be the difference between a completion and 6 points going the other way.
Haskins' feet seem to get much sloppier on deeper routes or plays where he's forced to leave the pocket and reset his feet. But I think he's pretty money on the shorter and intermediate stuff. And I think his football IQ can lead him further.
I just keep hearing things like "limited" and "average" when it comes to Jones, I see a lot of locking onto one read, etc... and I don't want to see us reach for a QB who has those things attached to his name as much as they seem to be attached to Jones.
I get it - if you love the QB, you don't punt on him @ 6 and pray he's still there 11 picks later. So, if the Giants are just totally sold on Jones and take him @ 6, so be it.
My major concern is the value not being there.
I'd hate to see us pass on a defensive player who could really be a game changer so that we can spend 4 years being wishy washy on Daniel Jones and being unsure about whether or not he's "the guy"
that Jones might be lower risk and will be “pretty solid” and that he’ll be nice for the scheme. Last time I checked these are not things you should look for when drafting a franchise quarterback to win Super Bowls. Scheme is great until you have guys breathing down your neck play after play and have to make NFL caliber throws 25 times a game. Lock can do that. Not sure Jones can.
I see good decisions and good football plays on many of the highlight highlight films posted.... but I don’t see GREAT THROWS
I throw away Arm Strength as a factor, but only because it’s an ASSUMPTION that it’s there. You don’t need the QB with the Strongest Arm, but of these guys need to have the Arm Strength to Make Great Throws..... I don’t see many on his tape
For the record, I watch games and tape of these guys, ALOT. I like lock and Jones out of this year's crop. Don't love them. No way I'd take either at 6. To be honest, you know my feelings, I wouldn't take a qb this year but the Giants might. I'm not defending Jones, per se, but am stating a fact that people in the league love him. Girl Brandt is very respected in nfl circles. His opinion isn't alone
Gil Brandt ranked Rosen the #2 overall Player last year behind just SaquonBarkley
2
Josh Rosen - QB
School: UCLA | Year: Junior
I don't have any questions about this young man with regard to the chatter about his character. A good athlete, Rosen has a strong arm and accuracy -- he can make all the throws. By Year 2, he'll be a successful starter in the NFL. I really like this player.
I hope I'm wrong either about taking him with #6 or my assessment of him.
The ONLY two reasons this guy is mentioned as a potential first round target is b/c his personality and demeanor remind people of Eli Manning (and thus able to handle the NY media) and b/c he was coached by David Cutliffe. That's it.
Drafting this guy in the first round would be the biggest draft day mistake since we took Dave Brown in the 1992 supplemental draft.
I have to believe this is all a smokescreen b/c there is no other explanation for even considering him on Thursday night.
If scouts couldn't agree that last year's available QBs were worth a top ten pick, then it would be almost impossible to believe that a player like Jones versus the defensive and OL talent potentially available at 6 or 17 has won over the scouts.
The Eli comparison needs to stop. Eli's arm was/is superior to Jones's. It's not even close. Jones is a bigger version of Andy Dalton.
The Eli comparison needs to stop. Eli's arm was/is superior to Jones's. It's not even close. Jones is a bigger version of Andy Dalton.
Problem is we are dealing with the same front office who didn't see an issue with Kyle Lauletta's arm.
The ceiling just isn't there - and you can see that almost all of the mistakes occur when he's trying to throw out routes. I have serious concerns about his ability to drive the ball outside the hashmarks and think he's going to turn the ball over a lot on those throws.
A lot of patting the ball before he releases it and doesn't show great anticipation.
I agree big time with the sentiment that he possesses many of Eli's "poor" traits, and only a few of his good ones.
Eli processed the field much faster and was more of a complete package. He had less questions on his arm. There are similarities... Jones looks like a Peyton/Eli hybrid - but it doesn't mean he'll perform like one.
Like many others have said... the upside seems limited with Jones and I'm not sure he has the toolbox to be better than an "average" NFL starter. Is that what we should be spending the 6th pick on?
I wouldn't.
But all of the Manning comparisons and Cutcliffe mentions make me worry that the Giants may see it differently.
The Eli comparison needs to stop. Eli's arm was/is superior to Jones's. It's not even close. Jones is a bigger version of Andy Dalton.
I'll take it one step further. Eli's arm TODAY is better than Jones' arm. At the time he was drafted is was vastly superior.
100% believe that.
Problem is we are dealing with the same front office who didn't see an issue with Kyle Lauletta's arm.
But at least Lauletta was properly placed - the 4th round.
Jones as the 6th pick, the 17th pick, and I think even the second round, would definitely set off alarms that this organization can't be trusted to evaluate the QB position.
I'll take it one step further. Eli's arm TODAY is better than Jones' arm. At the time he was drafted is was vastly superior.
Agreed. When Eli can get his feet set, he still has a very good NFL arm. He just doesn't have the ability - not that he ever had it in big supply - to throw the ball with that zip when conditions break down and those mechanics can't be executed. And even under those situations, his arm is still better than Jones's.
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The Eli comparison needs to stop. Eli's arm was/is superior to Jones's. It's not even close. Jones is a bigger version of Andy Dalton.
I'll take it one step further. Eli's arm TODAY is better than Jones' arm. At the time he was drafted is was vastly superior.
The ceiling just isn't there - and you can see that almost all of the mistakes occur when he's trying to throw out routes. I have serious concerns about his ability to drive the ball outside the hashmarks and think he's going to turn the ball over a lot on those throws.
A lot of patting the ball before he releases it and doesn't show great anticipation.
I agree big time with the sentiment that he possesses many of Eli's "poor" traits, and only a few of his good ones.
Eli processed the field much faster and was more of a complete package. He had less questions on his arm. There are similarities... Jones looks like a Peyton/Eli hybrid - but it doesn't mean he'll perform like one.
Like many others have said... the upside seems limited with Jones and I'm not sure he has the toolbox to be better than an "average" NFL starter. Is that what we should be spending the 6th pick on?
I wouldn't.
But all of the Manning comparisons and Cutcliffe mentions make me worry that the Giants may see it differently.
Agreed. Jones like all the other QBs is being grossly overvalued the closer we get to the draft. it's because teams are desperate for a franchise QB. It happens almost every year.
Yep... if we're taking a QB @ 6, I really hope it's Haskins and not this guy. I really don't see a 1st rd. QB here.
But, if NYG takes him, I'll hope like heck I'm wrong.
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Brian Baldinger went through these issues last week on NFLN. He was very bearish on Jones's decision making, especially when he needed to fit the ball into tighter windows. Which doesn't bode well to the faster game of the NFL.
The Eli comparison needs to stop. Eli's arm was/is superior to Jones's. It's not even close. Jones is a bigger version of Andy Dalton.
Problem is we are dealing with the same front office who didn't see an issue with Kyle Lauletta's arm.
Eric - I think they saw the arm, but he was a fourth round draft pick. That's the type of player that goes in the 4th round. They projected what he could become...and who knows, let's see how he looks in camp this year.
When it comes to the next QB, I'm only thinking about a 5 year window; it's pretty unlikely that any QB we draft will be worth paying in 4-5 years. I'm looking for one of two types of QB:
1. A QB that is going to use his athleticism to change the way teams have to defend him; or
2. A QB that is going to get the ball to the right place at the right time, and in rhythm.
Jones is the latter type. If Eli weren't here I'd be fine with taking him at #6. Eli's being here is the only reason I wouldn't.
The ONLY two reasons this guy is mentioned as a potential first round target is b/c his personality and demeanor remind people of Eli Manning (and thus able to handle the NY media) and b/c he was coached by David Cutliffe. That's it.
Drafting this guy in the first round would be the biggest draft day mistake since we took Dave Brown in the 1992 supplemental draft.
I have to believe this is all a smokescreen b/c there is no other explanation for even considering him on Thursday night.
I'm glad you're getting started on your annual draft whining a full week ahead of schedule this year.
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I don't know how much evidence and film study it takes for people to realize this guy isn't a 1st [or even a 2nd] round talent. He was an average college QB who never made the players around him better. His college team had a better record the three years prior to him ever becoming the starter. He wasn't even in the conversation for a day 1 or 2 pick until after the season yet he hasn't done anything since then to impress. He had a poor senior bowl week and an average combine.
The ONLY two reasons this guy is mentioned as a potential first round target is b/c his personality and demeanor remind people of Eli Manning (and thus able to handle the NY media) and b/c he was coached by David Cutliffe. That's it.
Drafting this guy in the first round would be the biggest draft day mistake since we took Dave Brown in the 1992 supplemental draft.
I have to believe this is all a smokescreen b/c there is no other explanation for even considering him on Thursday night.
I'm glad you're getting started on your annual draft whining a full week ahead of schedule this year.
Having a strong opinion based on actually watching the games is whining? LOL ok. Maybe you should learn to formulate an original opinion and state it with conviction instead of just buying whatever narrative the Giants choose to sell you. Your malleable stance on the team's offseason moves makes your opinion worthless. I'll stick to my 'whining' 🙄.
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In comment 14399675 Josh in the City said:
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I don't know how much evidence and film study it takes for people to realize this guy isn't a 1st [or even a 2nd] round talent. He was an average college QB who never made the players around him better. His college team had a better record the three years prior to him ever becoming the starter. He wasn't even in the conversation for a day 1 or 2 pick until after the season yet he hasn't done anything since then to impress. He had a poor senior bowl week and an average combine.
The ONLY two reasons this guy is mentioned as a potential first round target is b/c his personality and demeanor remind people of Eli Manning (and thus able to handle the NY media) and b/c he was coached by David Cutliffe. That's it.
Drafting this guy in the first round would be the biggest draft day mistake since we took Dave Brown in the 1992 supplemental draft.
I have to believe this is all a smokescreen b/c there is no other explanation for even considering him on Thursday night.
I'm glad you're getting started on your annual draft whining a full week ahead of schedule this year.
Having a strong opinion based on actually watching the games is whining? LOL ok. Maybe you should learn to formulate an original opinion and state it with conviction instead of just buying whatever narrative the Giants choose to sell you. Your malleable stance on the team's offseason moves makes your opinion worthless. I'll stick to my 'whining' 🙄.
You already have the Giants drafting a player you don't like and are already bashing them for drafting a player you don't like even though they didn't and the draft is a couple days away. Chill.
Or you could just craft an intelligent argument that perhaps illustrates why you feel Gold is wrong in his evaluation and back it up... but, nah... that would actually be harder than just taking shots from the balcony about what he knows or doesn't know.
100% believe that.
Absolutely.
Again, I ask: in what way is Daniel Jones significantly better than Ryan Finley? Why is one considered a 2nd-4th round pick and the other considered to be a potential top ten pick? They are very similar players.
But what was really notable was that he is fucking slinging the ball around. Jones does not look like a similar physical talent to my eyes. Eli has a bigger arm than he gets credit for and it was evident.
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scouting video. I'm going to pick and choose passes and show that Geno Smith is better than Mahomes. Then the pro-Geno crowd can crow about how much I know
Or you could just craft an intelligent argument that perhaps illustrates why you feel Gold is wrong in his evaluation and back it up... but, nah... that would actually be harder than just taking shots from the balcony about what he knows or doesn't know.
No one here is listening to anyone's arguments. Its like politics now, no one is changing their position. What I know is that he took a crappy Duke team to an 8 win season and a bowl game. I also know that a lot of scouts and experts, who know a lot more than I do, like him and think he's rising up the board. If the Giants like him than I am good. He looks the part, and they are down into the mechanics, talent, and mindset, not me.
I am not one of these posters who thinks they know everything because they watch a stupid video like this one. As i stated jokingly above, anyone can create a video to prove any point they want to make. I could grab all his best throws, and create a case that he should be the top pick. Its all crap put out by wann-a-be nfl scouts.
He'd probably be viewed the same. Brady wasn't at all a finished product when he was draft eligible. It's not like a Russell Wilson situation where the guy was simply excellent in college and somehow fell through the cracks. Brady was far from a blue chip prospect.
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In comment 14399754 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 14399675 Josh in the City said:
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I don't know how much evidence and film study it takes for people to realize this guy isn't a 1st [or even a 2nd] round talent. He was an average college QB who never made the players around him better. His college team had a better record the three years prior to him ever becoming the starter. He wasn't even in the conversation for a day 1 or 2 pick until after the season yet he hasn't done anything since then to impress. He had a poor senior bowl week and an average combine.
The ONLY two reasons this guy is mentioned as a potential first round target is b/c his personality and demeanor remind people of Eli Manning (and thus able to handle the NY media) and b/c he was coached by David Cutliffe. That's it.
Drafting this guy in the first round would be the biggest draft day mistake since we took Dave Brown in the 1992 supplemental draft.
I have to believe this is all a smokescreen b/c there is no other explanation for even considering him on Thursday night.
I'm glad you're getting started on your annual draft whining a full week ahead of schedule this year.
Having a strong opinion based on actually watching the games is whining? LOL ok. Maybe you should learn to formulate an original opinion and state it with conviction instead of just buying whatever narrative the Giants choose to sell you. Your malleable stance on the team's offseason moves makes your opinion worthless. I'll stick to my 'whining' 🙄.
You already have the Giants drafting a player you don't like and are already bashing them for drafting a player you don't like even though they didn't and the draft is a couple days away. Chill.
Not true at all. I love Saquon Barkley, I root like hell for him and believe he will be a surefire hall of famer. I was (and I'm still) against drafting him at #2 overall in what was considered one of the best QB draft classes in a long time when we had a clear need at QB. I had the same opinion a week before the draft as I do today...it hasn't changed and I state that when it comes up on threads. That's not whining, it's just my opinion on the move.
As for Daniel Jones, I have a strong opinion about his inability to become a good starting QB in the NFL. I will continue to state that opinion through the draft and if we take him I'll hope like hell I'm wrong. Fingers crossed...
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And yes, I actually agree with the sentiment that Eli Manning today has a better NFL arm than Jones does.
100% believe that.
Absolutely.
Again, I ask: in what way is Daniel Jones significantly better than Ryan Finley? Why is one considered a 2nd-4th round pick and the other considered to be a potential top ten pick? They are very similar players.
I've posed the same question several times.
Yet to see anyone really give a good explanation of what makes Jones a 1st round pick and Finley a 3rd. They have many of the same strengths and weaknesses. They are similar in size.
To me, it's hard to really tell why there's such a gap in the way they're graded. I assume I must be missing something.
But you could have said the same thing about Lauletta. At the time he was picked, he was a well-regarded sleeper prospect.
The same quality of QB and OL play even from five years ago, is missing. CFB has become a game where you need to be able to drop 40 points at will to win a game.
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And yes, I actually agree with the sentiment that Eli Manning today has a better NFL arm than Jones does.
100% believe that.
Absolutely.
Again, I ask: in what way is Daniel Jones significantly better than Ryan Finley? Why is one considered a 2nd-4th round pick and the other considered to be a potential top ten pick? They are very similar players.
Agreed.
Remember Belichick: "Talent sets the floor. Success is not all about talent. It’s about dependability, consistency, being coachable, and understanding what you need to do to improve.”
I've posed the same question several times.
Yet to see anyone really give a good explanation of what makes Jones a 1st round pick and Finley a 3rd. They have many of the same strengths and weaknesses. They are similar in size.
To me, it's hard to really tell why there's such a gap in the way they're graded. I assume I must be missing something.
Here's THE only reason for me - Cutcliffe.
Ryan completed 66% of his passes the last two years. And he has very good size, too.
His age could be a concern turning 26 in December. To some, not me, that is flag of some sort...
NCST had talent, they definitively recruited and had more talent across their team then Duke did.
Yet NCST arguably underachieved while Duke over-achieved.
Who?
Who is one of the best talent evaluators. And how do you know many in the league like him? B/c that's what leaked a week before the draft? And what about his talent impresses you> Or is it just poise and the fact he's faced adversity?
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With the Jones bashing. To this day he's one of the best talent evaluators in the league and he LOVES Jones. It's not just the Giants. Many in the league like him. He's going in the first round, most likely top 20, despite the nonsense on this thread. I have no issue if you don't like him, some like Haskins, I don't. It makes the draft great but don't lose sight of the fact the kid is liked in league circles and you could be wrong
Who is one of the best talent evaluators. And how do you know many in the league like him? B/c that's what leaked a week before the draft? And what about his talent impresses you> Or is it just poise and the fact he's faced adversity?
Do you have any scouting experience? Youtube, notwithstanding. As a fan, all you have to go by is what you read from people who have an actual educated opinion. The tape does no good if you're not educated as far as what you're looking at. I trust PS with QBs and i'll let him make the decision as far as the skill set he wants to run his offense
It's almost impossible to overstate how shitty and non-talented that Duke team was. Especially considering the 20 hours a week rule in CFB now.
This is where we will have to disagree. Yeh his receivers suck, but Cutcliffe has that team playing respectable football. Way past the yester year of Duke's one win football teams
At 6 not happening. But at 17? Going to be interesting....
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In comment 14399675 Josh in the City said:
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I don't know how much evidence and film study it takes for people to realize this guy isn't a 1st [or even a 2nd] round talent. He was an average college QB who never made the players around him better. His college team had a better record the three years prior to him ever becoming the starter. He wasn't even in the conversation for a day 1 or 2 pick until after the season yet he hasn't done anything since then to impress. He had a poor senior bowl week and an average combine.
The ONLY two reasons this guy is mentioned as a potential first round target is b/c his personality and demeanor remind people of Eli Manning (and thus able to handle the NY media) and b/c he was coached by David Cutliffe. That's it.
Drafting this guy in the first round would be the biggest draft day mistake since we took Dave Brown in the 1992 supplemental draft.
I have to believe this is all a smokescreen b/c there is no other explanation for even considering him on Thursday night.
I'm glad you're getting started on your annual draft whining a full week ahead of schedule this year.
Having a strong opinion based on actually watching the games is whining? LOL ok. Maybe you should learn to formulate an original opinion and state it with conviction instead of just buying whatever narrative the Giants choose to sell you. Your malleable stance on the team's offseason moves makes your opinion worthless. I'll stick to my 'whining' 🙄.
Yup, that's me! Mr. Malleable who goes along with what the Giants choose to sell me! Do you even read this board?
And yes, you whine like a child every single year during and after the draft. This year you've preemptively started whining before the draft, which feels like a step in the wrong direction.
You can call what you do formulating an original opinion. My original opinion is that you act like a child every year when the draft rolls around. Maybe the Giants sold that opinion to me though, I can't be sure.
i was talking to Josh, not you. I feel good about my eyes, but at the end of the day- coaches tape is different and they obviously get way more info to make a proper eval- thats all im saying
Gettleman is way too smart to make such an egregious first round reach...
Jones has what exactly as his backup?
Also note the amount of time that has passed siince Cutcliffe coached Ole Miss vs being at Duke and all that's changed in CFB since then.
That is certainly a common refrain around here.
But I just don't see it. Eli was throwing the ball downfield much more than Jones. And that was also in Cutcliffe's O. And Jones has averaged about 130 rushing attempts per year to Eli's 35. So Jones was using his athleticism a lot more based on design.
And I'm in the camp that Eli's velocity was noticeably better than Jones.
Maybe you are seeing something in their mannerisms that I don't see. Because with the Cutcliffe factor, I wonder if this would even be talked about...
You realize that there are some experts and scouts that don't value Jones that well, right? Not just the ones you want to listen to.
If he takes Jones at 6, it certainly answers the question about conviction.
Also as good of friends as they are, Don t you think there will be some Acorsi influence if a quarterback is selected.
Here'smyissue:
SOmeonhere are making the generic statement thta Jones "ismoving up on draft boards."
SUre on some he is -- but on soem he isn't. When you throw that out as -- unless you cna prove it's a consensus it really is a hollow statement.
He's not moving up on David Te's baord. Greg Cossell last I knew still had him at 4thrated QB in which he moved up Lock -- but kept Jones at 4. Maybe he did more.
PFF had him graded as a 3rd rounder saying teams will be desperate/. IMO Billick implied Jones isn;t worth a 1st rounder. Mayock mentioned when asked about jones moving up he spoke to the scouts he knew and they told him he wasn't moving up on their boards.
If he takes Jones at 6, it certainly answers the question about conviction.
Also as good of friends as they are, Don t you think there will be some Acorsi influence if a quarterback is selected.
I thought he specifically said he wouldn't say how many
You;ve used Gil Brandt more than once on here. Others will use David Te.
For me -- I'd use Gil Brandt -- but I'd also use Gil Brandt of 2018. In that he had Rosen as the number 2 overall.
You dont like him but a lot of people did including Gil Brant. I could use GiL Brandt and possibly assume he still holds Rosen high - at least probably higher than Jones. Thus I'd take Rosen and just not worry about Jones and where he's ranked.
Giving us a little color or is that an opinion?
To say Jones was on an overmatched team is fair. It’s absurd to say he has anywhere near the level of talent as Eli. Eli led Ole Miss to several huge wins. Jones was horrific as Duke got pasted by WF at home. Eli was also much more accurate at Ole Miss than Jones was at Duke.
Watch Jones throw, and you’ll notice the ball simply lacks the zip it has coming out of the hands of the other top QBs.
He's such an outlier he's not even a useful reference.
+3
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In comment 14399754 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 14399675 Josh in the City said:
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I don't know how much evidence and film study it takes for people to realize this guy isn't a 1st [or even a 2nd] round talent. He was an average college QB who never made the players around him better. His college team had a better record the three years prior to him ever becoming the starter. He wasn't even in the conversation for a day 1 or 2 pick until after the season yet he hasn't done anything since then to impress. He had a poor senior bowl week and an average combine.
The ONLY two reasons this guy is mentioned as a potential first round target is b/c his personality and demeanor remind people of Eli Manning (and thus able to handle the NY media) and b/c he was coached by David Cutliffe. That's it.
Drafting this guy in the first round would be the biggest draft day mistake since we took Dave Brown in the 1992 supplemental draft.
I have to believe this is all a smokescreen b/c there is no other explanation for even considering him on Thursday night.
I'm glad you're getting started on your annual draft whining a full week ahead of schedule this year.
Having a strong opinion based on actually watching the games is whining? LOL ok. Maybe you should learn to formulate an original opinion and state it with conviction instead of just buying whatever narrative the Giants choose to sell you. Your malleable stance on the team's offseason moves makes your opinion worthless. I'll stick to my 'whining' 🙄.
Yup, that's me! Mr. Malleable who goes along with what the Giants choose to sell me! Do you even read this board?
And yes, you whine like a child every single year during and after the draft. This year you've preemptively started whining before the draft, which feels like a step in the wrong direction.
You can call what you do formulating an original opinion. My original opinion is that you act like a child every year when the draft rolls around. Maybe the Giants sold that opinion to me though, I can't be sure.
You should change your handle to Mr. Malleable so that when you post it’s clear to everyone how worthless your posts are. And yes, I’ll continue stating my opinion and I’ll stick to it. Saquon Barkley was the wrong pick over Sam Darnold last year and Daniel Jones will never be an upper echelon QB in the NFL. But for us to get your opinion, we’ll just wait to see what the Giants do 🤣
For what (I think) the Giants are trying to achieve on offense, Jones is the best fit of these QBs. You don't want a freelancer like Lock, and you don't want someone with bad feet like Haskins.
We want the ball being delivered accurately and quickly to Barkley and tight ends on 3 step drops and rollouts in big personnel packages - Daniel Jones is the best fit in that type of offense. IMO the comp to look at is Sam Bradford's work with Shurmur in Philly and Minnesota. Short to intermediate accuracy and timing...it's a fit.
My only issue is doing it with Eli still on the roster. But given he's as close to an Eli clone as it gets, I don't know that we'd be looking at an acrimonious QB controversy if the season goes sideways.
And to me the quote of the offseason came from Sy: if the Giants like Jones in round 1 they aren't going to wait until 17 to take him.
One thing about Jones's pro day that did impress me (and swung me to the realization that he may be our guy) was his performance in red zone throws. They were quick, tight, and accurate. The throws to the back of the end zone were high, just like they're supposed to be. The footwork was excellent.
Wherever he goes, I'll be interested to see how his career develops. People are saying he has the lowest ceiling, but I disagree completely. I think his ceiling can be very, very high in the right situation.
I think he can do all of those things well enough, but I feel like Murray, Haskins, and Lock all have much higher ceilings.
On the same token, I absolutely think those 3 guys are probably more volatile prospects with higher bust potential.
Murray's size/hands/commitment/competiton... Haskins' footwork, conditioning, and protection.... Lock's inconsistency, struggles with short range accuracy and poor performances against the cream of the crop, etc.
I do think the offense needs to go more heavy-set and run through Barkley first and foremost. I want to develop an offense that imposes their will the way we were in 2008 when we were steamrolling people and punching tough defenses like Baltimore in the mouth harder than they could hit us back.
My worry with Jones is that his lack of drive outside the hashes and being more of a "touch" passer is going to box our offense in. I think we'll see a lot of really heavy boxes. Teams are going to say "we're not letting Saquon Barkley eat us up all day... we're going to make Daniel Jones prove he can loosen the defense and make throws down the field."
Based on what I've seen, my concern is that he won't be able to do that.
I also feel like Haskins can handle all of the same short/intermediate throws just as well as Jones - if not better. Haskins is better at putting the ball in tighter windows and he seems to throw passes with anticipation - to a spot where his WR will be out of his break - whereas Jones seems to need to see the guy come open before he lets it rip. And... that one extra patting of the football before he delivers it could be the difference between a completion and 6 points going the other way.
Haskins' feet seem to get much sloppier on deeper routes or plays where he's forced to leave the pocket and reset his feet. But I think he's pretty money on the shorter and intermediate stuff. And I think his football IQ can lead him further.
I just keep hearing things like "limited" and "average" when it comes to Jones, I see a lot of locking onto one read, etc... and I don't want to see us reach for a QB who has those things attached to his name as much as they seem to be attached to Jones.
I get it - if you love the QB, you don't punt on him @ 6 and pray he's still there 11 picks later. So, if the Giants are just totally sold on Jones and take him @ 6, so be it.
My major concern is the value not being there.
I'd hate to see us pass on a defensive player who could really be a game changer so that we can spend 4 years being wishy washy on Daniel Jones and being unsure about whether or not he's "the guy"
Belichick is just that good.
I think he can do all of those things well enough, but I feel like Murray, Haskins, and Lock all have much higher ceilings.
On the same token, I absolutely think those 3 guys are probably more volatile prospects with higher bust potential.
Murray's size/hands/commitment/competiton... Haskins' footwork, conditioning, and protection.... Lock's inconsistency, struggles with short range accuracy and poor performances against the cream of the crop, etc.
I do think the offense needs to go more heavy-set and run through Barkley first and foremost. I want to develop an offense that imposes their will the way we were in 2008 when we were steamrolling people and punching tough defenses like Baltimore in the mouth harder than they could hit us back.
My worry with Jones is that his lack of drive outside the hashes and being more of a "touch" passer is going to box our offense in. I think we'll see a lot of really heavy boxes. Teams are going to say "we're not letting Saquon Barkley eat us up all day... we're going to make Daniel Jones prove he can loosen the defense and make throws down the field."
Based on what I've seen, my concern is that he won't be able to do that.
I also feel like Haskins can handle all of the same short/intermediate throws just as well as Jones - if not better. Haskins is better at putting the ball in tighter windows and he seems to throw passes with anticipation - to a spot where his WR will be out of his break - whereas Jones seems to need to see the guy come open before he lets it rip. And... that one extra patting of the football before he delivers it could be the difference between a completion and 6 points going the other way.
Haskins' feet seem to get much sloppier on deeper routes or plays where he's forced to leave the pocket and reset his feet. But I think he's pretty money on the shorter and intermediate stuff. And I think his football IQ can lead him further.
I just keep hearing things like "limited" and "average" when it comes to Jones, I see a lot of locking onto one read, etc... and I don't want to see us reach for a QB who has those things attached to his name as much as they seem to be attached to Jones.
I get it - if you love the QB, you don't punt on him @ 6 and pray he's still there 11 picks later. So, if the Giants are just totally sold on Jones and take him @ 6, so be it.
My major concern is the value not being there.
I'd hate to see us pass on a defensive player who could really be a game changer so that we can spend 4 years being wishy washy on Daniel Jones and being unsure about whether or not he's "the guy"
+1000000000000000000
That's not what Brandt said. He said that Jones reminded him of a young Peyton Manning.
He also ranked Jones #17 on his list. If Jones were "the next Peyton Manning," how could he be ranked anything other than #1?
I throw away Arm Strength as a factor, but only because it’s an ASSUMPTION that it’s there. You don’t need the QB with the Strongest Arm, but of these guys need to have the Arm Strength to Make Great Throws..... I don’t see many on his tape
Gil Brandt ranked Rosen the #2 overall Player last year behind just SaquonBarkley
2
Josh Rosen - QB
School: UCLA | Year: Junior
I don't have any questions about this young man with regard to the chatter about his character. A good athlete, Rosen has a strong arm and accuracy -- he can make all the throws. By Year 2, he'll be a successful starter in the NFL. I really like this player.
Well the Pats traded out of the 4th round just ahead of when Giants grabbed him.
So no one knows who the Pats like or don’t like.