Just so it is slightly easier to understand how I grade players. Similar to a tier system. I have had teams/services ask for more specific grades based on schemes and situations, thus these grades are more general-based.
*Grading Scale:
90+ Elite, All Pro
85-89: Immediate starter, building block for a decade, franchise player
80-84: First round talent, starter and/or majority of the snaps each week
77-79: Day 2 pick, starter within their first 16-24 games as a pro
75-76: Fourth rounder, has starter traits but needs development
71-74: Fifth/Sixth rounder, should develop in to weekly contributor over rookie contract
68-70: Draftable, hopeful for special teams impact and long term development
67 and under: UDFA
______________________________________________
QUARTERBACK
WHERE THEY STAND
NYG is in a familiar place. They are "stuck" with an aging Eli Manning at QB, a top 6 pick in the draft, and unsure if they should use that pick on one of the class' top rated signal callers or use it on a higher graded player than can help build the foundation of the current rebuild. Nobody believed this QB class was going to live up to anything special last summer and here we are days before the draft and that notion remains the same. Drafting a QB at 6 would be, by almost all accounts, a reach. But because we all value the position more than others and some believe a new, young QB alone is going to reverse the fortunes of this franchise, many want to go get our guy in round 1. I won't say it is a bad idea, but buyer beware when you shop hungry. The Giants are building a better roster and culture around their two time Super Bowl MVP quarterback and even though there is no denying he as seen better days, Manning has not fallen off a cliff. He is still a threat to win games if the supporting cast is there. Behind him, there appears to be next to nothing.
TOP 25
1: Dwayne Haskins – Ohio State – 6’3/233
Grade: 81
Summary: Fourth year junior entry that was the main guy for Ohio State for just one season, although he got his feet wet initially in 2016. Haskins played behind all-time great (collegiately) JT Barrett. While he had to wait his turn, Haskins came in prepared and took full advantage of the starting role in 2018. He threw for 50 touchdowns and nearly 5,000 yards with his best football being played down the stretch. Haskins two standout traits; accuracy and intelligence. This is a kid that truly understands concepts and understands how to react quickly, swiftly, and efficiently. When it comes to throwing the ball, he rarely misses his target when he throws from a steady position. The issue that popped consistently was a lack of carry over to being under pressure. Haskins is not a good athlete, as he plays heavy-footed and tight-hipped. The lack of fluidity below the waist is a problem and could really impede his progress in the league. He projects as a starter but the fact he started for just one year and shows mechanical problems means he needs to sit for at least a year.
*Throughout the entire pre-draft process, Haskins has always been the guy that I trust the most. Accuracy, decisions, and swagger in big situations are standout traits that I think carry over in to the NFL very well, especially a market like New York. Haskins has a few things that he really needs to clean up, however. His lower body is a mess and he didn’t respond well to productive pass rushes. I also have a few concerns with the fact that Ohio State was loaded with talent all over the place. There are also some concerns with weight management and being professional in his approach off the field. Not a troublemaker at all, but some question if he can change and lead a locker room. I thought that was notable. In the discussion at 6 I’m sure, but another one I would rather hold off on until 17.
NFL Comparison: Ben Roethlisberger / PIT
2: Daniel Jones – Duke – 6’5/221
Grade: 80
Summary: Fourth year junior entry. A three year starter and two time team captain. Despite playing with inferior talent both up front and at the skill positions nearly every week, Jones put together a productive career as both a passer and rusher. The prototypical quarterback when it comes to size and playing style showed glimpses over the past two years of what a first round QB should look like. His NFL-caliber mechanics from head to toe give him the look of a professional passer and him being coached by David Cutcliffe, the college coach of both Peyton and Eli Manning, only helps strengthen the notion of how ready he is. Jones pairs that with toughness and grit that doesn’t come around often. However, there were constant red flags in his tape that are hard to ignore. He didn’t see things well and his decisions were too inconsistent. There just seemed to be a lack of a true feel for the pocket, the defense, and angles. Jones checks a lot of boxes but there is a lot of gamble in the team that takes him even though he comes across as a “safe” bet to some.
*I wanted to like Jones more than this, I really did. I have a thing for tough quarterbacks and I do think he brought his teammates to another level. That’s a trend that can really make a kid break out in the NFL. While I do have a 1st round grade on him and I do think he can be in play at 17 because of the position he plays, I think NYG may need to steer clear here. Jones has enough arm strength, touch, and athletic ability. But there isn’t a quick mind here, he doesn’t see everything a top tier QB does whether it is coverage or pass rush based. After a long time scouting him, he is a pass for me.
NFL Comparison: Ryan Tannheill / TEN
3: Drew Lock – Missouri – 6’3/228
Grade: 77
Summary: Three-plus year starter from the SEC that was among the conference leaders in the big passing statistics each year despite multiple schematic and coaching changes. Lock’s special arm talent earned 2nd Team All SEC honors as a senior, the first time he completed over 60% of his passes as the program introduced more pro passing concepts to the offense. The upside with him is higher than any passer in the class, as he possesses the rare ability to flick to wrist and shoot the ball out of his hand deep downfield with no wind up or warning. Lock has several plays on tape that scream top tier first round pick but the lack of consistency when it comes to accuracy and mechanics are alarming. The two are usually tied together, thus the notion that he can hide the issues with time to work on the details of the position is out there. It’s hard to imagine, however, after 1,200 passing attempts in college and seeing where he ended mechanically that all of the sudden those issues will disappear. The margin between his floor and ceiling is as wide as anyone.
*I remember watching him for the first time in the fall of 2017 and I immediately thought Matt Stafford 2.0. The release, quick and easy zip on his balls, and athletic base were attractive but I can’t get past the inconsistencies across the board. There are so many easy throws that he missed, so many times where his mechanics were a train wreck. Sure, you can say these things will change once he gets in to an NFL coaching environment but I am of the thought that after the amount of experience he’s had and the mistakes he is still making, we will see more of the same in the NFL. That, to me, is not a franchise QB.
NFL Comparison: Jay Cutler / FA
4: Kyler Murray – Oklahoma – 5’10/207
Grade: 77
Summary: Fourth year junior entry. Initially began his career at Texas A& M but transferred to the Sooners program after just one year in Aggie country. Was a two-sport athlete at Oklahoma and was actually the 9th overall pick in the 2018 MLB draft, receiving a multi million dollar contract and signing bonus from the Oakland A’s. The fall of 2018 was supposed to be a farewell-to-football tour for Murray but a Heisman and Davey O’Brien award winning, All American season caused Murray to think otherwise about his future. Ultimately he returned the money to the A’s and entered the NFL Draft, where many expect him to the top overall pick. Murray is a dynamic athlete with quick, smooth, and accurate release. His short limbs and explosive twitch give him a unique level of speed as both a rusher and passer. The height alone makes him a major risk and he doesn’t enter the league with a lot of starting expedience, either. The Murray risk that someone will take in round 1 will be the ultimate case study and a true testament to how much weight analytics can, or cannot, trump over traditional scouting. Murray is a swing for the fences by Adam Dunn, meaning he will be a major whiff or a 500-foot homerun. Nobody would be surprised by his success, nor would it be a shock if he were playing baseball within 5 years.
*I actually think my 77 grade here is generous and part of me thinks his future in the league would be brighter as a running back. His athletic ability may actually be underrated by some because so much of the discussion surrounds his height and ability to throw the ball. But guys, this dude is a legit sub 4.4 runner with outstanding vision and change of direction. Do I want that to be the main weapon as a quarterback? No way, but he is intriguing. I wouldn’t put my job on the line with him, but there is no denying the excitement he brings to the table. But there are so many question marks, big question marks, that I just couldn’t handle him being my guy. There are a few major character question marks I have here too. Let someone else take him and enjoy the show, for better or worse.
NFL Comparison: Russell Wilson / SEA
5: Ryan Finley – NC State – 6’4/213
Grade: 77
Summary: Sixth year senior. Began his career at Boise State and had a career to forget there. After his redshirt season in 2013, Finley got a few starts in 2015 before breaking his ankle, forcing him to medically redshirt. He graduates in three years, which made the process of transferring to NC State simple. The three year starter for the Wolfpack put together three straight seasons of 60+% completion percentage and a 60:25 QB:INT ratio in the Wolfpack’s pro style offense. The two time All ACC quarterback had a span of 339 passes without an interception which approached Russell Wilsons school record 379 attempts, an FBS record. Finley is a smooth and under-control signal caller that makes good decisions in all situations. His body needs some more bulk to sustain NFL-caliber hits and he may lack the upside of a true starter, but he will be in the league a long time as a solid backup at least. He lacks the pop but can make up for it with intelligence and accuracy to a point. He will get a shot at some point in his career and it wouldn’t be a surprise to see him succeed.
*Finley was my top senior prospect leading up to the 2018 season and finished #1 on #2 on that list. I trust this kid even though I will acknowledge his upside doesn’t approach the guys above. He has a lot of pro-caliber traits to his game, both on and off the field. He still has the high schooler-body and there seems to be something lacking with his twitch and explosion as a passer. He would greatly benefit from a situation like NY where he would fully take in the benefits from watching Eli Manning for a year or two while working on his strength and presence. Finley and the possibility of him being taken day 2 by NYG isn’t discussed enough, it is a real possibility.
NFL Comparison: Sam Bradford / FA
6: Jarrett Stidham – Auburn – 6’2/218
Grade: 75
Summary: Fourth year junior. Began his career at Baylor but left the school amid the school’s sexual assault scandal After skipping out on football for a year, Stidham took off once he earned the starting role at Auburn, earning SEC newcomer of the year in 2017. While he didn’t take off in year two, Stidham leaves school as a prospect that checks a lot of boxes and could have his best football ahead of him once he enters a pro offense. He throws a nice ball, plays with a good blend of athleticism and throwing ability, and is always a coach’s favorite. There seems to be a struggle when it comes to reading the entire field and making adjustments when his initial target isn’t there. Stidham will instill the belief he can be a starter in the league at moments but inconsistencies are all over the place.
*I wanted to like Stidham. I have heard great things about him from both in and out of his circle as a person and leader. You know he has the talent, as he’s been the favorite of many QB coaches and evaluators when it comes to workouts. However the tape just doesn’t match the expectations and I question if he has it. Another guy I am not touching until day 3, but I expect him to get drafted earlier.
NFL Comparison: Trevor Siemien / NYJ
7: Will Grier – West Virginia – 6’2/217
Grade: 74
Summary: Fifth year senior. The son of a coach, Grier began his career at Florida and lasted 2 years. He got on the field for 5 starts but had a couple run ins with the coaching staff and a suspension that stemmed from a performance-enhancing drug. He sat out 2016 so he could transfer to West Virginia where he started to reach the potential many saw in him as a highly touted recruit. Grier threw over 70 touchdowns and completed over 65% of his passes in the Mountaineers spread attack. The husband and father has some of the best highlight reel throws in the class but he proved to be overly dependent on space and timing. When his rhythm was thrown off and traffic approached his landing spots, Grier’s performance took a step backwards. The accuracy has been overblown, as he struggles to his points on the move. Grier still plays with a sense of entitlement via poor body language and repeatable mistakes. He projects as a backup at the next level.
*Another popular name connected to NYG if we are talking day 2 of the draft. Grier was a hot player in the fall but as the scouting process got deeper and deeper, too many boxes remained unchecked. I don’t see it with him. The arm talent is average, the dealings with pressure are average, his athleticism is average, and I don’t see a leader that elevates others. Grier has some body language issues that strengthen the notion that he is in his own world. I wouldn’t call him uncoachable by any means, but the debate is whether or not he’s worth even trying to work with is enough for me to pass on him unless we are talking day 3.
NFL Comparison: Kirk Cousins / MIN
8: Taylor Cornelius – Oklahoma State – 6’6/220
Grade: 74
Summary: Fifth year senior. The long time backup to record setting Mason Rudolph, Cornelius finally got his shot as a senior in 2018 and flashed enough to warrant day three consideration. The tall, wiry, strong armed signal caller has professional athlete bloodlines and high jump accolades dating back to high school. He is a very composed, even keel player that shows tremendous touch on his deep balls and more than enough zip throughout the intermediate route tree. A lack of experience and inconsistent accuracy are red flags, but to think of what this kid can evolve in to once in an NFL system is worth the excitement. Day three project with starter upside.
*This kid was originally a walk on at Oklahoma State and won the starting job early over Mason Rudolph. However a change of heart in the 11th hour by the coaching staff put Rudolph atop the depth chart and we know what happened there. It’s hard not to think that could have been Cornelius and after that, it’s hard not to think Cornelius may be really undervalued. He has a lot of work ahead of him but he already proved he can be persistent and he has a lot of attractive tape.
NFL Comparison: Matt Schaub / ATL
9: Tyree Jackson – Buffalo – 6’7/249
Grade: 73
Summary: Fourth year junior entry. Three year starter that missed some time in 2017 with a knee injury. The 2018 MAC Offensive Player of the Year, Jackson oozes talent and upside stemming from an enormous frame and elite-level arm. He has a knack for making the highlight reel throws on the move. The two way threat can handle a lot of contact as he plays strong and powerful. Coupling that with his big arm and the fact he is relatively raw compared to other quarterback prospects, Jackson is a day three target that teams will want to take a chance on. He has a lot to clean up when it comes to his long release and lack of lower body engagement. In addition, there will be an enormous learning curve, making Jackson a 2+ year project that teams need to be patient with.
*Those that were going gaga over Josh Allen at this time last year are going to like Jackson. He is similar in that he has a big time arm that is especially notable when he is on the move. Jackson is light years behind when it comes to reading defenses and trusting his mechanics. He is a pretty sloppy prospect that plays like he is in the school yard with a bunch of buddies. While the talent is there, it takes so much more to be a quarterback in this league and he really has a ways to do.
NFL Comparison: Paxton Lynch / SEA
10: Easton Stick – North Dakota State – 6’1/224
Grade: 72
Summary: Fifth year senior. Got his first exposure in 2015, filling in for an injured Carson Wentz, going 8-0 as the starter. As a redshirt sophomore in 2016, Stick was named a team captain. He won the national championship in 2017 and 2018, leading the way with a dual-attack approach and knack for making the big play in big moments. Stick is a little rough around the edges but he plays with swagger and grit. He has shown the ability to handle himself well against pressure, holding on to his mechanics and progressions. He will need time to adjust to the NFL but whoever gets this kid in their system will have a high upside player that has more potential than a lot, if not all of the other day 3 quarterbacks.
*Fans will like this kid a lot. He is a spark plug, an exciting, blue collar quarterback that can make a lot happen with his feet. While I do get nervous about guys that rly so much on their legs, Stick has shown enough on tape via his passing skill set to get him a backup spot somewhere in this league. I’m not sure I see a guy that will evolve enough, but having an athlete and competitor like this on the depth chart would be nice.
NFL Comparison: Drew Stanton / CLE
11: Gardner Minshew – Washington State – 6’1/225
Grade: 72
Summary: A former junior college national champion, Minshew transferred to East Carolina but never quite took grip of the full time starting gig. He did get some action via injuries to the guy in front of him and played pretty well. Washington State Head Coach and offensive guru Mike Leach took a liking to him and brought him in for a Gradate transfer year. It was the best thing that ever happened to Minshew, as he was won the Pac 12 Offensive Player of the Year award and was among the nation’s leaders in multiple passing categories. While statistics aren’t a great measureable coming from that offensive system, Minshew has something in him that is overly attractive. He has all the swagger and confidence that can make others better. Teammates and coaches at WSU loved him and I think there is a gamer in him that some don’t have. The talent is a little short, but I do think he has enough to get a shot at some point once he gets used to the NFL style.
*I would put it at under 10% odds that Minshew ends up being something in the NFL beyond a backup, but he has something that you don’t see often. The ideal blend of confidence and cockiness that doesn’t rub people the wrong way, but instead makes others better. He is the kind of guy that can make others better, plain and simple. There is a lot of contagious to him and if the talent can be enough and he works hard to clean up his game, he is the kind of backup that comes on the field halfway through a year and rejuvenates a club. Just not sure he can sustain long term success.
NFL Comparison: Case Keenum / WAS
12: Brett Rypien – Boise State – 6’2/210
Grade: 71
Summary: A four year starter and four time 1st Team All Mountain West Conference honoree. Ended his career winning the conference Player of the Year Award. Nephew to Super Bowl MVP Mark Rypien. Rypien is a statistical compiler that did nothing but produce since the moment he stepped on the field. The debate on him will center around a lack of size, arm strength, and athletic ability. Mechanically and mentally, he has it. But the ceiling on him is capped.
*A lot of college fans like this kid a lot. He does look the part when he drops back and dishes the ball out, but he had it pretty easy in the MWC. He didn’t see a lot of pressure and the system he played in doesn’t necessarily translate to the league. I like him as a smooth and dependable backup with a lot of knowledge of the game, but I wouldn’t draft him with the mindset of him ever becoming more.
NFL Comparison: Brian Hoyer / NE
13: Trace McSorley – Penn State – 6’0/204
Grade: 70
Summary: Fifth year senior and a three time team captain for the storied program. McSorley is a gamer in every definition of the word that will lead his way in to the discussion of a starting role at some point in his career. The size, arm strength, and overall style of play likely won’t fit in the league but he has made a habit out of proving people wrong. The winning attitude and approach does mean something in the grading process and while he has career backup written all over him, don’t completely count him out.
*Maybe it is the old school mentality I have, but despite the fact I have so many negatives from game notes and grades, I still consider this kid draftable late day 3. I don’t see a big time upside, but I do think he will have value in a QB room at the next level. He is a good team guy to have around and when it comes to the QB position, that is worth something. He had productive career too, so it’s not like we are talking about a stiff. He has talent, can make most of the throws too.
NFL Comparison: Taylor Heinicke / CAR
14: Clayton Thorson – Northwestern – 6’4/222
Grade: 70
Summary: Fifth year senior. Son of former Giants quarterback, Chad Thorson. Thorson tore his ACL late in 2017 but was back in time for the start of his senior year. The two time All Big 10 quarterback never had the sexy stats that some of the other prospects putout but the scheme he played in didn’t often give him the opportunity to air it out often. Thorson is a sneaky arm talent with enough foot speed to evade pressure un and out of the pocket. His experience and leadership will be a welcomed addition to any quarterback room but he won’t evolve in to a starter.
*Not much to say or see here, except I think Thorson underachieved in 2018 because of the really quick ACL recovery and a lack of talent around him in addition to poor OL play. He is a better athlete than what we saw on tape and I like the maturity level. Carries himself well and plays really smart, but there is no starter upside.
NFL Comparison: Mason Rudolph / PIT
15: Jacob Dolegala – Central Connecticut – 6’6/240
Grade: 70
Summary: A three year starter that went under-recruited out of high school because of a shoulder injury. Dolegala was a relative unknown to many throughout the fall but he was on our list last August. The tools are there but his play at a low level of college football was far from dominant. He didn’t see many complex coverages but he still seemed to struggle when it came to multiple reads and progressions. But when this kid lines everything up, he can rifle it like a pro. Underrated athlete too that can take on contact with ease. Long term project but interesting tools.
*This is the kind of kid you draft late and try to hide on the practice squad but judging the amount of eyes that were on him at his Pro Day, you may have to keep him on the 53 to avoid someone grabbing him. Anyway, this is a shot in the dark based purely on tools but there isn’t anyone down this far on the list that has what he has.
NFL Comparison: Cardale Jones / LAC
16: Jake Browning – Washington – 6’2/211: 69
17: Eric Dungey – Syracuse – 6’3/222: 69
18: David Blough – Purdue – 6’’0/205: 69
19: Nick Fitzgerald – Mississippi State – 6’5/226: 69
20: Jordan Ta’amu – Ole Miss – 6’3/221
21: Kyle Shurmur – Vanderbilt – 6’4/230: 67
22: Drew Anderson – Murray State – 6’4/220: 66
23: Justice Hansen – Arkansas State – 6’4/218: 66
24: Kyle Kempt – Iowa State – 6’5/224: 66
25: Andrew Ford – Massachusetts – 6’3/210: 65
NYG APPROACH
Let me start off by saying 2 things. One, this QB class isn’t close to what the 2018 QB class was. Two, Josh Rosen is a couple tiers above all these guys and as I said in February, I am willing to give up a 1st round pick for him if it came down to that. If WAS offered their 15th overall pick, can NYG maybe offer #6 and get back Rosen plus ARI #33 overall? I think it is a bargain to pay for a franchise QB. If you told me last year at this time that NYG could have Rosen AND Barkley AND 3 picks in the top 37 of the 2019 draft, I am not even thinking about it. That is a no brainer in my eyes.
As for this class, none of these guys should be in play at #6 in my opinion. I think Haskins and Jones stand out as the two guys I could see evolving in to “franchise QBs” in the same sentence as someone like Mitch Trubisky, but we aren’t talking elite level guys. It really depends on what you want out of drafting a first round QB. DO you want someone that is simply “good enough” or do you want a guy that is going to take over games and be THE guy for a decade-plus? With where the Giants are now, I personally prefer to use the early picks on building a better team around Eli Manning and come back to the QB situation again in a year because I think you will always be able to find QB prospects with this kind of upside that Jones, Haskins, Lock…etc.
I will be the first to tell you Manning isn’t what he was. His feet are slowing down, his reaction times are slowing down, his arm is getting weaker. But this team can still win with him at the helm just as much as you can win with a fringe-first round talent youngster. A new face isn’t always a better face, remember that. There are rd flags in each of the QB prospects in this class that could easily turn this offense in to complete mush if they took over, and that wouldn’t even be until next year. Drafting a QB this year just for the sake of it is like covering a cut with a band aid when you really need to get stitches. It is a gamble that may, in the long run, make this awful run NYG is on even worse.
I would rather not see them use another mid round pick on a QB for the 3rd year in a row hoping to get lucky. Late day 3? Sure. But in 2017 NYG picked Davis Webb, I wanted them to choose DT Montavious Adams or CB Desmond King (an all Pro). In 2018 they picked Kyle Lauletta and I wanted them to choose Tyrell Crosby, a versatile backup OL. Point is, those selections are valuable.
If NYG loves one of these kids, then go for it. But not at 6. Draft an impact guy at 6 and trade up from 17 aggressively. Perhaps that is the thought in having 2 first rounders anyway. Time will tell.
BBI might implode a day earlier than expected
I really like how you go into the reviews either eliminating or confirming the impressions you initially have. That you want to like a certain player and then get into the details to see weaknesses is something not all reviewers do. They hold onto bias.
For me, that's the best quality in these reviews that you tell us those things upfront and then get into the details on why you arrive at a grade.
Awesome work all pre-draft!
Sy, you don't mention Lock's scrambling and athletic ability (or that of Jones)....any reason for that? Does that not factor into your grade for them?
If the Giants took Jones at #17 would you think it’s a good pick?
As always Sy, the time you take to do this for this site is incredible. Everyone appreciates it and me especially.
I hear you, but I also heard from another source who has said much of what you have said, but also says Haskins is not out of the picture.
For your lips to gods ears.
This is not the year to draft a QB. If we can get Rosen for cheap I’m all for it otherwise bolster the roster and call it a day.
Thanks again for your contribution to this site Sy - truly the best of BBI!
1 more day everyone! One of the best football weekends of the year, enjoy it.
Is that reflected in your grade on him as a prospect?
I have never for a moment thought Haskins was out of the picture personally. If Darnold continues to improve and becomes a true franchise QB and really if even one of Haskins, Rosen, Allen, Lock, or Jones does as well I think Gettleman will have made a big mistake. If three or more turn into really impressive pro QBs it’s pretty hard to justify having passed on so many. “No guts, no glory”
Also, I really believe that next year is going to be damn near impossible to get a QB. I don’t think any of the 3 (Fromm, Tua, Herbert) are that incredibly better prospects than the guys last year, but I also think the sheer amount of teams that definitely will be looking for a QB, coupled with the amount that very well could be looking for a QB is going to be difficult.
You keep saying this like you have an inside view or opinion on it, which flies in the face of JT and Jonc's comments. Why? To be clear, I want NOTHING to do with Haskins. He is David Garrard at best (size, build) and more likely a Stan Humphries like tease. No thanks.
The reason I say that is, one of the best things he does is during the draft he says who he would take in REAL TIME. Not after the fact as the dust settles and he knows who would be available later but IN REAL TIME.
Look at his track record! Not only has he shown a knack for avoiding busts that NYG decision makers have taken but in their place he routinely selects guys who go on to be pro bowlers.
I wish they’d do a slight trade up with the Jets, who are desperate to acquire more picks
I understand praying they fall (I do too) ... do you know if they don’t will there still be a prospect they “love”
I feel like Williams or Allen would be perfect for this team, then there’s a drop off... this is also why I hate meaningless late season wins, but I digress.
Thanks JT
That reference came out of the blue.
How was Humphries a "tease"? He was a 6th round pick who didn't even become a full-time starter until he was on his second team and 4 years in the league.
That's more similar to Nick Foles or Case Keenum than Haskins.
From your mouth to god's ears.
Just 2 out of 3 of the following has to happen.
Someone trades up for Haskins
Someone falls in love with Oliver
TB takes Devin White.
And then Allen or Williams falls to us just like Leonard Williams fell to the Jets.
What if they both fall?
Take one, then move heaven and earth to take the other?
Its fun to dream.
I feel like there is virtually no chance Williams drops, Allen I can definitely see being there, but Williams, no chance.
Not necessarily. If two QBs go in the top 5, and TB and Oak want a LB or pass rusher instead of a DL, he could fall to 6.
Sy talks about Webb and Lauletta being wasted picks. Gad! Haskins at #6 would be a five year disaster. That is my honest, less than humble, opinion.
...thanks so much!
Quote:
He is David Garrard at best (size, build) and more likely a Stan Humphries like tease. No thanks.
That reference came out of the blue.
How was Humphries a "tease"? He was a 6th round pick who didn't even become a full-time starter until he was on his second team and 4 years in the league.
That's more similar to Nick Foles or Case Keenum than Haskins.
No, not the selection spot, the play on the field. He has some similar skillsets adn body style- he always seemed like he was about to take off and didn't. I think Haskins has a style that will just tease about where it will go, but, will not. Physically he reminds me of those two guys...
Leonard Williams dropped to 6 and it wasnt bc of a red flag.
It isnt likely but it has happened.
So if they really want a defender, they will draft him.
That said, two people say a QB is not out of the picture. I take that as meaning the QB vs. a slightly lower-rated defender is a discussion still in play.
Any insight on why??? Should Giants consider him as UDFA???
So if they really want a defender, they will draft him.
That said, two people say a QB is not out of the picture. I take that as meaning the QB vs. a slightly lower-rated defender is a discussion still in play.
Just putting together everything, I'd guess there are two tiers of guys they have at 6.
Tier 1:
Q Williams
Bosa
Allen
Tier 2:
Devin White
Oliver
Wilkins
QB
Either way, Williams just seems like a long shot, and Allen seems like a very real possibility.
I really like how you go into the reviews either eliminating or confirming the impressions you initially have. That you want to like a certain player and then get into the details to see weaknesses is something not all reviewers do. They hold onto bias.
For me, that's the best quality in these reviews that you tell us those things upfront and then get into the details on why you arrive at a grade.
Awesome work all pre-draft!
Agreed. You are as objective as you are thorough. Very much appreciated.
Maybe it’s a sign
Quote:
For the record was again told last night no to Haskins. I'm hearing they pray Allen or Williams falls. They actually think there's a good chance it happens as fyi
I hear you, but I also heard from another source who has said much of what you have said, but also says Haskins is not out of the picture.
Like you, it's not "me" - I've just heard from two different sources that QB is not out of play. But both also say - like you - that a number of defenders appear to be higher on the list. The interesting thing is there are a couple of guys being mentioned who BBI has widely discussed, but who haven't been tied to the Giants by you or JonC yet.
Good question...as a Cuse fan, I love Eric Dungey as a UDFA in that role.
Who is your fourth? White? Oliver?
I am wondering the same, from what I saw of Rosen last year the negatives that Sy mentioned about Jones (poor decision making, taking long to process) seemed to be issues, and those weren't issues he had at UCLA. That is what had me wondering if those same issues for Jones could be a product of a poor supporting cast and will look better once he has better players around him.
Great job. Since you pretty much reinforced my views and know more in your pinky about football than I know in total -- makes me feel very smart, LOL.
Maybe they will give Shurmur a 3rd day pick if there is a developmental guy he falls in love with, but the only QB I like in terms of real draft capital resources is Rosen.
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You could be right but my source has been adamant about this. Well see
Like you, it's not "me" - I've just heard from two different sources that QB is not out of play. But both also say - like you - that a number of defenders appear to be higher on the list. The interesting thing is there are a couple of guys being mentioned who BBI has widely discussed, but who haven't been tied to the Giants by you or JonC yet.
Could you name those two guys? I presume Haskins is one of them - can you confirm/deny that?
No. "Peppers" mentioned one guy. The other defender has already been tied to another team in the top 3.
If anyone of those three fall...
Chris Harris? PP? Josh Rosen??? Any of those would be welcomed.. :)
I didn't know you mentioned Oliver.
With Jets looking to trade down, Cards taking Murray and Oliver and White as likely top 5 guys. One of those 2 could realistically drop. That would be amazing.
And do they really like a QB? Or are they trying to entice someone to trade up in front of them to take a QB so a defender will fall?
A few years ago, the Giants were trying to entice the Cowboys to draft Manziel. It almost worked but JJ was talked out of it.
I never hear stuff like that.
And again, the guys who I talk to, usually preface their comments with... "this is the latest, but this stuff changes"
Diehl says he doesn't see anyway Rosen to Gmen happen. He believes Giants had Mayfield, Darnold, Allen and then Rosen.
If no one takes them, I see them being happy with Oliver. But I got a feeling Oliver will be taken by Oakland if they stand pat.
I am curious to this scenario.
Arizona - Murray
SF - Bosa
Jets - Allen
Raiders - Oliver
TB - Q Williams
This is where things would suck for the Giants.
Sy's a little worried about Allen. But most people seem to love the guy.
Well keep us updated.
-White possible fall back if Allen is gone
-if White is gone, Haskins or Wilkins
we already found him ... Kurt Warner!
What’s the deal with White’s character? I haven’t read anything about it. This guy has been compared to Bobby Wagner ability wise. If he’s sitting there at 6, he very well could be the best player available if he’s among a tier that includes Oliver, Gary, and Wilkins.
Over Q.williams if by some crazy chance they were both there?
If no one takes them, I see them being happy with Oliver. But I got a feeling Oliver will be taken by Oakland if they stand pat.
I am curious to this scenario.
Arizona - Murray
SF - Bosa
Jets - Allen
Raiders - Oliver
TB - Q Williams
This is where things would suck for the Giants.
Disagree. Devin White is pretty much a sure bet to be a really good player and team leader in defense. He would be the pick in this scenario
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Appears to be optimism josh Allen is there. If he is he's the pick
Sy's a little worried about Allen. But most people seem to love the guy.
Allen has elite coverage skill combined with tremendous pass rush talent. Perfect fit for Bettcher's D
If no one takes them, I see them being happy with Oliver. But I got a feeling Oliver will be taken by Oakland if they stand pat.
I am curious to this scenario.
Arizona - Murray
SF - Bosa
Jets - Allen
Raiders - Oliver
TB - Q Williams
This is where things would suck for the Giants.
You’d have to think White, no?
I don't think he's an option at 6 based on that feedback. Maybe 17??
No inside info on the next comment, but Haskins just reeks of NYG to me.
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so Williams or Allen falls.
If no one takes them, I see them being happy with Oliver. But I got a feeling Oliver will be taken by Oakland if they stand pat.
I am curious to this scenario.
Arizona - Murray
SF - Bosa
Jets - Allen
Raiders - Oliver
TB - Q Williams
This is where things would suck for the Giants.
You’d have to think White, no?
JT has said Giants arent sold on him. May be Wilkins? Or maybe a trade back for Cincy?
I don't think he's an option at 6 based on that feedback. Maybe 17??
Ahhh ok. Thx.
If no one takes them, I see them being happy with Oliver. But I got a feeling Oliver will be taken by Oakland if they stand pat.
I am curious to this scenario.
Arizona - Murray
SF - Bosa
Jets - Allen
Raiders - Oliver
TB - Q Williams
This is where things would suck for the Giants.
I'd hope they go Wilkins if this is the case
Rosen 89
Mayfield 86
Darnold 81
Haskins 81
Jackson 78
Allen 78
Lock 77
Murray 77
It would appear that a trade for Rosen would make the most sense.
I am not certain that I agree with the ratings,as I would have Murray(86) up near Mayfield.
I think that Murray will surprise and be a dynamic pro.
No inside info on the next comment, but Haskins just reeks of NYG to me.
What I think was telling was waiting until just a couple of days before the draft for the Giants to host Haskins. Was he the last main visit? If so, I think they are trying to start to play the game now enticing a team to tradd up in front of us to push one of the top defenders down.
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In comment 14401198 dep026 said:
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so Williams or Allen falls.
If no one takes them, I see them being happy with Oliver. But I got a feeling Oliver will be taken by Oakland if they stand pat.
I am curious to this scenario.
Arizona - Murray
SF - Bosa
Jets - Allen
Raiders - Oliver
TB - Q Williams
This is where things would suck for the Giants.
You’d have to think White, no?
JT has said Giants arent sold on him. May be Wilkins? Or maybe a trade back for Cincy?
So if White isn’t an option, I guess it’s Wilkins or your guy, Gary perhaps?
...and I'm pretty confident that he throws a better ball than Eli Manning.
Not saying is he currently as good as Eli Manning... just that the ball comes out of Rosen's hand better.
I don't think Gary is in play.
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due to injury. I would expect WIlkins to be the pick. But I wouldnt mind trading back to Cincy for a swap of first rounders, a 3rd and their first next year.
I don't think Gary is in play.
What about at 17 if he slips cause of the injury.
Teams will definitely be worried about decision making of someone with that background-regardless of age then.
Character issues in 2019 draft - ( New Window )
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In comment 14401243 dep026 said:
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due to injury. I would expect WIlkins to be the pick. But I wouldnt mind trading back to Cincy for a swap of first rounders, a 3rd and their first next year.
I don't think Gary is in play.
What about at 17 if he slips cause of the injury.
I’d pull a hammy running up with the card at 17 if he’s there.
Diehl says he doesn't see anyway Rosen to Gmen happen. He believes Giants had Mayfield, Darnold, Allen and then Rosen.
Wow if that's true I'm pretty shocked about Mayfield being their number 1. Gives me hope on their QB evaluations.
...and I'm pretty confident that he throws a better ball than Eli Manning.
Not saying is he currently as good as Eli Manning... just that the ball comes out of Rosen's hand better.
The ball came off of the hands of Jeff George and Ryan Leaf too... hell, it came off the hands of Davis Webb better. I'm all for arm strength, but it's much more than that.
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The talk is Allen, Oliver or Williams are legit targets and shots at 6.
Diehl says he doesn't see anyway Rosen to Gmen happen. He believes Giants had Mayfield, Darnold, Allen and then Rosen.
Wow if that's true I'm pretty shocked about Mayfield being their number 1. Gives me hope on their QB evaluations.
Allen over Rosen though makes me skeptical about their evaluation. But again, this is Diehl’s speculation. I don’t think he ever asked anyone at the NYG for their 2018 QB ranking.
If no one takes them, I see them being happy with Oliver. But I got a feeling Oliver will be taken by Oakland if they stand pat.
I am curious to this scenario.
Arizona - Murray
SF - Bosa
Jets - Allen
Raiders - Oliver
TB - Q Williams
This is where things would suck for the Giants.
I've got this crazy feeling that the Giants have been playing a bit of a double con game here. It goes like this:
(1) Gettleman talks up the needs on defense and the preference for big tough guys;
(2) Other teams take that as a feint and that he really wants Haskins at 6. The full court press at his workout would only seem to "reconfirm" this;
(3) Thus, maybe Gettleman forces some team to jump in front of them to snag a Haskins (or some other QB), thereby allowing Josh Allen or Quinnen Williams to fall to 6.
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...and I'm pretty confident that he throws a better ball than Eli Manning.
Not saying is he currently as good as Eli Manning... just that the ball comes out of Rosen's hand better.
The ball came off of the hands of Jeff George and Ryan Leaf too... hell, it came off the hands of Davis Webb better. I'm all for arm strength, but it's much more than that.
I hear ya! And definitely YouTube ain't the greatest way to evaluate a QB!
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In comment 14401190 jvm52106 said:
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The talk is Allen, Oliver or Williams are legit targets and shots at 6.
Diehl says he doesn't see anyway Rosen to Gmen happen. He believes Giants had Mayfield, Darnold, Allen and then Rosen.
Wow if that's true I'm pretty shocked about Mayfield being their number 1. Gives me hope on their QB evaluations.
Allen over Rosen though makes me skeptical about their evaluation. But again, this is Diehl’s speculation. I don’t think he ever asked anyone at the NYG for their 2018 QB ranking.
I remember seeing a lot of smoke regarding allen ... his skillset is undeniable
gives me hope they target tyree jackson in the midrounds to sit behind eli
He's been the "solid" guy all along that probably fits right in with the #6 selection, value, and overall impact at that spot
How has he backed off?
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i'm a bit confused. The past few weeks you've been mocking posters for mentioning Haskins. Now that a few other asshats have said don't discount him and he's in play, you are backing off. Which is it?
How has he backed off?
Didn't he just say I do not see Haskins at all?
when before it was "how many times do i have to say it, stop discussing it, its not happening"
As we get closer jt has been softening that stance
Again, show me where he backed off.
when before it was "how many times do i have to say it, stop discussing it, its not happening"
As we get closer jt has been softening that stance
His exact quote was "I'll be shocked if it's Haskins but stranger things have happened". He's just trying to be a nice guy, thats how I read it. Unlike other people here he's being polite.
"However, there were constant red flags in his tape that are hard to ignore. He didn’t see things well and his decisions were too inconsistent. There just seemed to be a lack of a true feel for the pocket, the defense, and angles. Jones checks a lot of boxes but there is a lot of gamble in the team that takes him even though he comes across as a “safe” bet to some."
This is a very harsh - I believe spot on - but yet you still give Jones a first round grade. "Constant red flags"? That's obviously more than one. And you fail to mention any plus or plus-plus ability.
So I really struggle how this comes close to a first round grade. It's actually contradictory...
I will say this, jtgiants has provided much appreciated info and a lot of us have thanked him for that. I also wrote that part of the reason people are questioning him is because instead of just reporting the informatiom he is also adamantly defending the Giants process when others disagree with it. This kind of falls in that category. Sources are nice but don't know everything so we have to all understand that. The two things are separate things. There is the information that is being relayed to us and then there is the opinions that get blended together. That is where the issues are imo. Separate the two.
"However, there were constant red flags in his tape that are hard to ignore. He didn’t see things well and his decisions were too inconsistent. There just seemed to be a lack of a true feel for the pocket, the defense, and angles. Jones checks a lot of boxes but there is a lot of gamble in the team that takes him even though he comes across as a “safe” bet to some."
This is a very harsh - I believe spot on - but yet you still give Jones a first round grade. "Constant red flags"? That's obviously more than one. And you fail to mention any plus or plus-plus ability.
So I really struggle how this comes close to a first round grade. It's actually contradictory...
QBs are always overvalued and teams think they can coach up weaknesses.
His size and athleticism is definitely a first round grade and seems like to be a leader.
for better or worse. I never thought I'd consider being OK with Haskins again.
Honestly though, I hope we just steer clear of QB altogether if they get picked too high. Two blue chip defensive starters and a right tackle (Remmers or not) would be awesome.
when before it was "how many times do i have to say it, stop discussing it, its not happening"
As we get closer jt has been softening that stance
Of all the QBs not named Murray, Haskins would be the best get. I agree with Sy that Jones mental processing scares me. Definitely don't see the Mannings ability to quickly process what's happening on the field like they do.
But a QB at 6 basically means the Giants are telling Eli this is his last year. I could be wrong but I don't see the Gmen doing that. All these guys like Brees, Roth,Brady, Rivers are still going strong and have been beat up in terms of injuries more than Eli has. I don't think they force him out the door unless they see his really losing it (and he isn't)
If you go on 'asshatric' History alone jtgiants and hitdog are the top dogs (and JonC too).
And hitdog says his connections are not as solid as they used to be. Certainly doesnt mean hit no longer has info but perhaps not at the level as previous.
Pass rush at 6 in my mind is still the likely scenario.
So you are saying there is a chance.. ;)
jt- just curious if you have heard but, is EE a possible trade to say a team like NE?
Any updates on the potential percolating trades? Does it look like we may get a vet or trade one away (or both)?
Look, no asshat here is talking to Dave Gettleman and Chris Pettit. People are hearing stuff from different people. When you understand that, you understand that info may vary.
There were some other interesting tidbits he expressed and his thoughts on Beckham.
There were some other interesting tidbits he expressed and his thoughts on Beckham.
I didn't realize he got his Masters from Illinois. Good for him. I met him back in 2007 at training camp and damn was he big. Brandon Jacobs in person was huge and hard to believe he was a RB. Nice guy too. Interviewed him twice.
Just fascinating how people who are not casual fans can see such different things in a player.
Not true at all. He's passing along what he is hearing. Things change. The draft is very fluid.
Just fascinating how people who are not casual fans can see such different things in a player.
I think he nailed alot of the QBs but not Murray. In the right utilization he would be a terror. He isnt the typical running QB, this kid can make reads and looks to pass first. Still looks down the field even when flushed out of pocket.
Just fascinating how people who are not casual fans can see such different things in a player.
I feel a little less crazy about my Haskins love now that someone with better eyes is corroborating some of the sentiments I've had.
Issues are there, but if we're taking a QB @ 6, he's the only one I'd be happy with in that spot.
17 would be ideal - just can't see him making it that far.
Sy, you don't mention Lock's scrambling and athletic ability (or that of Jones)....any reason for that? Does that not factor into your grade for them?
Both are solid athletes but I think that has more to do with youth than ability, if that makes sense. They won't make money as scrambling and/or running QBs...but yes they offer more than Eli ever did.
I can see that mechanically but Jones is a better athlete, Ryan has the better and more accurate arm
Is that reflected in your grade on him as a prospect?
I think my grade says...he deserves a shot to start within 1 year or two, but don't get overly excited about the upside.
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and Murray at 77 and yet the Cardinals would be willing to trade out of the first for the latter. At considerable cost in the draft.
Just fascinating how people who are not casual fans can see such different things in a player.
It's not that simple. Sy doesn't tailor his grade to any particular offense, so it's possible the grades would be different if he were grading for a specific offense (and the offense's current personnel). Also, and perhaps more importantly, Sy doesn't give a shit about selling tickets or jerseys. There is a commercial benefit that comes with selecting Kyler Murray and a team like Arizona is more likely to value that than a team like the Giants.
Will he be able to see everything at 5'10? That is a legit concern. He made a ton of easy throws in to space against weak Big 12 defenses, didn't see a ton of pro caliber throws.
Oh that can certainly be the case and I think that is the one thing that could make Jones in to a. guy that exceeds my grade my a wide margin
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But you don't go into details. Just out of curiosity, what are they?
Will he be able to see everything at 5'10? That is a legit concern. He made a ton of easy throws in to space against weak Big 12 defenses, didn't see a ton of pro caliber throws.
He has the worst supporting cast in football, more specifically the offensive line.
He showed toughness and grit and stayed focused and driven despite the crappy situation....those were the 2 red flags from the media at this time last year.
If you made a cut up of the top 100 throws in the NFL last year, Rosen has at least 5 of them. He fit some balls in to windows that very few guys can. His mechanics stayed clean, he tried to stand tall against pressure even when everyone knew the rush was gonna reach him within 3 seconds.
If Rosen was on CLE last year, he outplays Mayfield in my opinion.
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What's your take on Rosen's play last year?
He has the worst supporting cast in football, more specifically the offensive line.
He showed toughness and grit and stayed focused and driven despite the crappy situation....those were the 2 red flags from the media at this time last year.
If you made a cut up of the top 100 throws in the NFL last year, Rosen has at least 5 of them. He fit some balls in to windows that very few guys can. His mechanics stayed clean, he tried to stand tall against pressure even when everyone knew the rush was gonna reach him within 3 seconds.
If Rosen was on CLE last year, he outplays Mayfield in my opinion.
No question he has it on the field. Footwork, beautiful throws, fast mental processing. Anticipitory thrower vs 'see it throw it' guy. But is he a DG guy and NYG face of the franchise guy?
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What's your take on Rosen's play last year?
He has the worst supporting cast in football, more specifically the offensive line.
He showed toughness and grit and stayed focused and driven despite the crappy situation....those were the 2 red flags from the media at this time last year.
If you made a cut up of the top 100 throws in the NFL last year, Rosen has at least 5 of them. He fit some balls in to windows that very few guys can. His mechanics stayed clean, he tried to stand tall against pressure even when everyone knew the rush was gonna reach him within 3 seconds.
If Rosen was on CLE last year, he outplays Mayfield in my opinion.
Wow, impressive review. I hope we can get him
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What's your take on Rosen's play last year?
He has the worst supporting cast in football, more specifically the offensive line.
He showed toughness and grit and stayed focused and driven despite the crappy situation....those were the 2 red flags from the media at this time last year.
If you made a cut up of the top 100 throws in the NFL last year, Rosen has at least 5 of them. He fit some balls in to windows that very few guys can. His mechanics stayed clean, he tried to stand tall against pressure even when everyone knew the rush was gonna reach him within 3 seconds.
If Rosen was on CLE last year, he outplays Mayfield in my opinion.
Rosen highlights - ( New Window )
"However, there were constant red flags in his tape that are hard to ignore. He didn’t see things well and his decisions were too inconsistent. There just seemed to be a lack of a true feel for the pocket, the defense, and angles. Jones checks a lot of boxes but there is a lot of gamble in the team that takes him even though he comes across as a “safe” bet to some."
This is a very harsh - I believe spot on - but yet you still give Jones a first round grade. "Constant red flags"? That's obviously more than one. And you fail to mention any plus or plus-plus ability.
So I really struggle how this comes close to a first round grade. It's actually contradictory...
To. me, it comes down to what is correctable and do other areas in his game somewhat make up for it. Watching the All-22 tapes, it looks like there are times he doesn't see things simply because his guys can't get open and his OL was overmatched.
My thought on Jones is, he has the tools and he plays tough. But whether or not a better OL and more talent at WR helps him process things is a guess. At this point you can't say either approach is right or wrong.
Not at all. That is a product of OL play and him knowing he is about to get clocked. We have seen that come and go with Manning too.
I like Finley...and have had him atop this senior QB list since last summer. I thought with a big year he could have been in top 10 discussions, but he just didn't take the next step. he is limited physically but he has enough there. Just worry about the somewhat slow nature to his play as a thrower and mover. Doesn't have a sturdy looking body. And there are throws he just can't make routinely.
Harry Highlights - ( New Window )
Big Ben...not from a production point of view (his supporting cast has been the best in football)...but from a point of view of being a top 10 guy in the league for long time
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What's your take on Rosen's play last year?
He has the worst supporting cast in football, more specifically the offensive line.
He showed toughness and grit and stayed focused and driven despite the crappy situation....those were the 2 red flags from the media at this time last year.
If you made a cut up of the top 100 throws in the NFL last year, Rosen has at least 5 of them. He fit some balls in to windows that very few guys can. His mechanics stayed clean, he tried to stand tall against pressure even when everyone knew the rush was gonna reach him within 3 seconds.
If Rosen was on CLE last year, he outplays Mayfield in my opinion.
This is great stuff. I hope more people read this.
BTW, I've watched some footage from the Cards voluntary camp. Rosen looks in great shape and moving even better.
I have a hunch Kingsbury, now that he's been around Rosen in live situations, is struck by how talented Rosen is...
To. me, it comes down to what is correctable and do other areas in his game somewhat make up for it. Watching the All-22 tapes, it looks like there are times he doesn't see things simply because his guys can't get open and his OL was overmatched.
My thought on Jones is, he has the tools and he plays tough. But whether or not a better OL and more talent at WR helps him process things is a guess. At this point you can't say either approach is right or wrong.
Fair enough. Frankly, I don't see much difference between Finley and Jones. I've grown to prefer Finley.
I guess one can say Jones is a better athlete - and I guess the Cutclifee factor - but I think Finley is more accurate, more pocket poise, and actually a better improvisor.
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To. me, it comes down to what is correctable and do other areas in his game somewhat make up for it. Watching the All-22 tapes, it looks like there are times he doesn't see things simply because his guys can't get open and his OL was overmatched.
My thought on Jones is, he has the tools and he plays tough. But whether or not a better OL and more talent at WR helps him process things is a guess. At this point you can't say either approach is right or wrong.
Fair enough. Frankly, I don't see much difference between Finley and Jones. I've grown to prefer Finley.
I guess one can say Jones is a better athlete - and I guess the Cutclifee factor - but I think Finley is more accurate, more pocket poise, and actually a better improvisor.
Thats fine....I think in 5 years both are solid backups
The Browns say that had no strong feelings about Mayfield until they met him. Then, they say, his leadership abilities were just unmistakable and separated him from the others.
I think that this is one of the main reasons that ranking the quarterbacks doesn't work well. You just don't know about the intangibles.
Is he going to stay healthy, can he play well if not at his physical best? When under pressure will he protect the ball or will he heave it almost straight up while going down?
We only have to take a trip down memory lane and A-Rod for a reminder of how a player can fail in the clutch.
Eli had the health thing and the pressure thing going for him.
It doesn't seem logical to me that one year the draft can have five first rounder and the next year none. I haven't done the research, but I bet it would show franchise quarterbacks in years where there were supposed to be none, and a bunch of busts in years that were supposed to be full of first round quarterbacks.
Gil Brandt is 86, but he still sounds like he knows what he is talking about and he rates four quarterbacks to be round one picks: Murray (7), Jones (17), Lock (20) and Haskins (25). So three of them in the top 20 and Haskins not far behind.
I think that the press latches on to a few names and they start all agreeing with each other. Two months ago Haskins was the consensus top choice. Murray was considered very risky until the Cards showed their great interest. I don't recall hearing much about Jones at all.
Given that the quarterback rankings are unreliable, I think that you have to have a guy in to try to measure his intangibles. And I think that you have to also consider the penalty for delaying another year. In the Giants' case that means likely not having the draft power to get one of the top two quarterbacks on their list next year if they pick 14th or 15th. And if they are that fortunate, they will have to pay heavily with 2021 picks.
Maybe it is an advantage when everyone in NFL land is saying what a weak year this is for quarterbacks. You won't have to pay as much.
It is fine...I don't get too In to guys and different mechanics of throwing unless the release is too slow
I certainly don't think his dare devil style will work, but I was actually surprised by his arm. With some more polish, he could fit somewhere...
I certainly don't think his dare devil style will work, but I was actually surprised by his arm. With some more polish, he could fit somewhere...
Agree 100%
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Since you really didn't mention it in the write-up, what do you think of Haskins's throwing motion?
It is fine...I don't get too In to guys and different mechanics of throwing unless the release is too slow
To be clear... Haskins has probably one of the quickest releases in this years class and last.
Not sure about that. But if improves this year, and there are some real holes in his game (but fixable), he's going to go number one. He's an immense talent...
We can't sleep on Jacob Eason, btw. I think he's going to have a monster year for UDub.
glad Sy and I agree 100% on Haskins ... this is no way this guy is worth the 6th pick in the draft.
hopefully Washington does the stupid things Washington does and trades up for this overrated prospect.
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that Herbert didn't declare. Fairly certain he would be our pick
Not sure about that. But if improves this year, and there are some real holes in his game (but fixable), he's going to go number one. He's an immense talent...
We can't sleep on Jacob Eason, btw. I think he's going to have a monster year for UDub.
Eason is over rated... He is going to struggle against a stout Cal pass defense!
glad Sy and I agree 100% on Haskins ... this is no way this guy is worth the 6th pick in the draft.
hopefully Washington does the stupid things Washington does and trades up for this overrated prospect.
You don't really agree with him 100% - he didn't say there's no way Haskins is worth the 6th pick. He said 17 would be preferable... and he has Haskins rated ahead of every other QB in this class.
Sounds like you're just picking bits and pieces and trying to change what he's saying.
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"Haskins has a few things that he really needs to clean up, however. His lower body is a mess and he didn’t respond well to productive pass rushes. I also have a few concerns with the fact that Ohio State was loaded with talent all over the place. There are also some concerns with weight management and being professional in his approach off the field. "
glad Sy and I agree 100% on Haskins ... this is no way this guy is worth the 6th pick in the draft.
hopefully Washington does the stupid things Washington does and trades up for this overrated prospect.
You don't really agree with him 100% - he didn't say there's no way Haskins is worth the 6th pick. He said 17 would be preferable... and he has Haskins rated ahead of every other QB in this class.
Sounds like you're just picking bits and pieces and trying to change what he's saying.
What I'm doing is highlighting the portion that is exactly why I don't want anything to do with Haskins at 6.
I never said he wasnt a first round pick and have acknowledged his "plus" arm/accuracy ... although I feel the arm talent is somewhat overrated as well. Carry on.
take I would toss the remote with Haskins at #6
The only pick I didn't like last year was Lauletta with
Crosby sitting there. But hey maybe he can be a solid backup
but he has a very long ways to go .
I have seen some tape on Rosen and I wonder if he can handle
the media here they can be brutal .
If Arizona takes Murray than I hope we deal for Rosen
he would be perfect behind Eli and he is NFL ready .
But your respective descriptions of Haskins and Jones sound like considerably more than a 1 point grade difference on any scale. The NFL comparisons you make, too - Rothlesberger vs Tannehill - only 1 point?
I, like most draft pundits it seems, think there's a bigger gap between the two of them so far as grade and NFL potential than one point. IDK, but it seems to me you have not factored in Haskins' 14 starts vs Jones' 3 years, as you did for example grading Drew Lock.
Barring that I’d like to see the Giants trade for 2020 draft capital from their excess of 2019 picks.
Murray was, statistically-speaking, one of the greatest players in the history of high school football. Then, in one year of college football, he won the Heisman running the same offense as the now-successful former 1st-overall pick Baker Mayfield. I don't look at that trend and say "well logically he is going to suck in the NFL then." He's freakin' gamer and I think he's going to prove a lot of doubters wrong. Just my 2 cents.
But your respective descriptions of Haskins and Jones sound like considerably more than a 1 point grade difference on any scale. The NFL comparisons you make, too - Rothlesberger vs Tannehill - only 1 point?
I, like most draft pundits it seems, think there's a bigger gap between the two of them so far as grade and NFL potential than one point. IDK, but it seems to me you have not factored in Haskins' 14 starts vs Jones' 3 years, as you did for example grading Drew Lock.
Don't get caught up on comparisons...they are just simple references to what kind of style they play to, not what I think they will be in NFL.
Haskins' lack of experience is certainly a factor and it is a part of my grade for him. I don't see a major gap between them now but I do think Haskins ceiling is higher
More and more its like College Basketball where the coach/system matters more then the players.
More and more its like College Basketball where the coach/system matters more then the players.
That goes against everything all have said about 2029.
More and more its like College Basketball where the coach/system matters more then the players.
Herbert, Fromm, and Tua are so much more talented than Haskins/Jones it’s not even close.
This QB class is a joke. And yet, 4 will go over drafted as people become obsessed with the “franchise QB” “face of the franchise” BS.
You're fooling yourself if you think next is going to be any better or different.
[quote] will have many of the same question marks that this group does. Just no one has bothered to do the digging into them yet. Example, Tua will have many of the same question marks Haskins does this year regarding supporting cast making his job a lot easer.
You're fooling yourself if you think next is going to be any better or different. [/quote
Same thing with Fromm. Georgia has been stacked. Also Herbert's completion percentage getting much worse is gonna be a big question. The one time he's played a full season his his completion percentage and yards per attempt went down significantly from the year before.
He'll be the first coach Smart fires in mid-season.
For example I still don't understand how you could've had Bradberry as a 79 grade but say he is going to start right away and be around for 10 years or so etc. Scheme or no scheme you project his as a quality starter for a long time. ANyways you had me convinced ot go with Dillard as David Te and others.
Now to Jones. I hope with GMEn everything works out. But again you have me confused. You compare him to Tannehill - but imo Tannehill type should never be an 80 grade.
Anyways I'm with ya about Rosen and we all got to be pumped up for season coming up. I think Jones is a major error but am hopeful it all works out and he turns into a damn fine QB leading GMEn to some big playoff performances.