I was for Rosen last year and for Jones this year. Sy's assessment of Jones
made mere realize that with Jones, hope figured too much in the equation.
If the Giants are in on Rosen, they should not make a nickel and dime proposal.
The Cardinals are trying to save face from the criticism that comes with drafting
two "franchise" QBs consecutively. They want dearly to get a #1 pick as close
to the #10 pick they spent on Rosen last year.
I would offer our 17th pick for Rosen and the Cards 3rd round pick, and I would
do it tomorrow before the draft.
The Cardinals would be praised for getting fair value, and for taking care of the
QB dilemma before a circus developed after Murray is drafted. While it plays
to the strength of the draft, no one will pay much attention to the 3rd rounder.
I don't think DG should or would care, but the Giants would be praised for
taking care of their QB succession, and the Beckham trade would be viewed
more favorably, as it would be seen as providing the ammunition for acquiring
Rosen.
A win, win for both sides.
If the Giants believe in Rosen, it's a fair price.
If they really do believe in him, then any price within reason would be considered fair. However, no one outside of their brain-trust knows if they believe in him or not.
p.s.--I know Engram has his fans on BBI, but I'm not one of them. Nothing personal, but he'll never be anything more than an H-back and I prefer a real TE as part of the base offense, especially given Barkley's presence and Shurmur's love for play action. We're already starting two slot receivers (Tate and Shepard), Engram just makes it three. So let's trade Engram to a team where his skill set is a better fit for their particular jigsaw puzzle.
p.s.--I know Engram has his fans on BBI, but I'm not one of them. Nothing personal, but he'll never be anything more than an H-back and I prefer a real TE as part of the base offense, especially given Barkley's presence and Shurmur's love for play action. We're already starting two slot receivers (Tate and Shepard), Engram just makes it three. So let's trade Engram to a team where his skill set is a better fit for their particular jigsaw puzzle.
Guess we'd be drafting a TE early under that scenario and goodness we've already got so many roster deficiencies. Without Engram, Simonson and Ellison aren't scaring anybody. Anything left in FA or any potential vet cuts we might keep an eye on?
#17 and EE for Rosen and Peterson
I'd be thrilled with Rosen for 37 and whatever lower pick.
I'd even be OK with 17 for Rosen straight up, but I doubt the Giants would do that.
Sadly, I don't think the Giants are super interested in Rosen. If they are they are keeping it REALLY WELL hid.
It's also highly possible that all of this talk of AZ taking Murray is BUNK, designed to drive up the price of the pick, and that they intend to keep Rosen.
If I were their GM, that's what I'd be doing.
Bbiers keep mentioning NE, but they have gone more to a power I running team, doesn't fit there either. Kingsbury would be a good fit, or KC.
Guess we'd be drafting a TE early under that scenario and goodness we've already got so many roster deficiencies. Without Engram, Simonson and Ellison aren't scaring anybody. Anything left in FA or any potential vet cuts we might keep an eye on?
We should be wary of picking him up if it is the first, and Rosen is not worth expending top picks on. In that isn't the case, we should be looking to pick up a bargain, not helping AZ out by giving top dollar.
IF Washington decides to draft a QB, the market is drying up. Don't get into a bidding war with another team and DO NOT get into a bidding war with ourselves.
maybe add some low round 2020 pick
I have the feeling that if Rosen is available some other team
Redskins
Miami
Pats
Chargers
will end up offering a better deal
I really hope their qualms about Rosen are more substantive than that, but I fear they aren't.
a couple of the asshats indicate that Giants weren't all that hepped up on him last year. Did anything really change since then?
IF Wash offers up a 15, now the Giants would have to up theirs if GMen want him. Wash is desperate for a QB. Giants are not. Giants would have to really value him a lot to pony up more than a 15.
AZ giving up on him after one year is a big flag. I don't care how much of a boner they have for Murray.
We crossed the Rubicon with Eli when we paid his bonus on 3/17. The time to rethink the QB position got pushed back a year at that point.
We crossed the Rubicon with Eli when we paid his bonus on 3/17. The time to rethink the QB position got pushed back a year at that point.
Eli is only under contract this year. If we get Rosen are suggesting we would resign Eli if he didn't retire?
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but why trade for him if Eli is here? What if Eli doesn't retire after this year? Is Rosen going to sit on the bench again next year?
We crossed the Rubicon with Eli when we paid his bonus on 3/17. The time to rethink the QB position got pushed back a year at that point.
Eli is only under contract this year. If we get Rosen are suggesting we would resign Eli if he didn't retire?
I am.
Yup. The Giants are going to be a better team this year than they've been. If they didn't cut Eli after the last couple years they're not going to turn down an opportunity to run it back after an 8-8 year.
And don't underestimate Roethlisberger getting a new contract.
Barring injury I'd bet Eli is the quarterback the next two years minimum.
I think if that happens it's because Eli already informed them privately that this is his last year. I don't think there is any chance the Giants will risk Eli playing in another uniform or having an even slightly unceremonious breach with Eli.
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If the Giants have a solid year & he plays decent, he’ll be back in 2020. This is my concern with addressing QB this year.
Yup. The Giants are going to be a better team this year than they've been. If they didn't cut Eli after the last couple years they're not going to turn down an opportunity to run it back after an 8-8 year.
And don't underestimate Roethlisberger getting a new contract.
Barring injury I'd bet Eli is the quarterback the next two years minimum.
Are you saying that Ben's extension will impact the Giants decision on Eli?
I'd be thrilled with Rosen for 37 and whatever lower pick.
I'd even be OK with 17 for Rosen straight up, but I doubt the Giants would do that.
Sadly, I don't think the Giants are super interested in Rosen. If they are they are keeping it REALLY WELL hid.
It's also highly possible that all of this talk of AZ taking Murray is BUNK, designed to drive up the price of the pick, and that they intend to keep Rosen.
If I were their GM, that's what I'd be doing.
If the Cards draft Murray they *almost* have to trade Rosen. For that reason, it wouldn't be wise to offer a 1st. That is why Antonio Brown went for pennies on the dollar. Pittsburgh had almost no choice but to trade him.
DG says it's the best draft ever through 4 rounds and everyone immediately wants to punt the entire thing. I can't believe we hate DG that much.
Wow this would be one of the worst trades IMO. Peterson for 17? He'll be 29 before the season starts. Rosen I can get on board with for the 37. I wouldn't even take Peterson for the 37th. You can get starting caliber or even cornerstone players with those picks.
I really hope their qualms about Rosen are more substantive than that, but I fear they aren't.
The cheap contract thing is why I have soured on any deal involving Rosen. Originally, I was thinking if you could get him for our third or a third and a lower round throw in - great. Now, I don't want him.
That's because once you've found the right QB, via the draft, you have a 5 year window where you likely have your best chance of building a champion. Your QB is on a cheap rookie contract for 5 years until you potentially have to sign him to a contract worth 10s of millions of dollars.
Rosen is currently on the 2nd year of his contract. If we trade for him, barring injury/the team is mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, he's not playing this year.
Now we get to year 3 of the Rosen contract. Assuming the team shows an improvement this year, I can see the team extending Eli's contract for another year, Eli announcing it will be his final season, and Mara getting all Giddy over a Derek Jeter type final season send-off - Rosen rides the bench again.
Rosen enters year 4 - he starts but we still have no idea whether he's the guy.
Absoltely not. Remember we are going to have to pay PP and we would get AT MOST 3 years of Rosen on his rookie deal.
I'd like to say thats crazy talk, but I'm not so sure anymore
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I think it can influence their thinking with regards to how long they think Eli can play, yeah.
I'd like to say thats crazy talk, but I'm not so sure anymore
The Giants are not operating objectively as it regards Eli. That is beyond doubt.
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For Peterson and Rosen. You can't anyone better than Peterson at 17 and you can't get anyone better than Rosen at 37. If we got Allen at 6...sick sick sick sick. I would even throw in a conditional 2020 as a sweetener if needed.
Absoltely not. Remember we are going to have to pay PP and we would get AT MOST 3 years of Rosen on his rookie deal.
PP is a stud and would lock down the back end of our D. Add in a Pash Rusher like Allen at 6. I have Rosen graded exactly as Sy56 does(6 isn't even too much for me) I think this trade puts us in the playoffs in a weak NFC east. It also gives us our franchise QB of the future.
Why do you beleive that? Because they don't seem to be in the market for a guy that they were not in the market for last year and for whom nobody else seems to be in the market for this year (including his own team)?
He has the worst supporting cast in football, more specifically the offensive line.
He showed toughness and grit and stayed focused and driven despite the crappy situation....those were the 2 red flags from the media at this time last year.
If you made a cut up of the top 100 throws in the NFL last year, Rosen has at least 5 of them. He fit some balls in to windows that very few guys can. His mechanics stayed clean, he tried to stand tall against pressure even when everyone knew the rush was gonna reach him within 3 seconds.
If Rosen was on CLE last year, he outplays Mayfield in my opinion.
I was very pleased to read this, and it supported many things I have written about Rosen last year in Arizona.
With that said, I agree that we should leverage our 17th pick for Rosen. I was stuck on just a second round pick - tops. But this QB class is too underwhelming. We really need to get this done...
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are not in on Rosen at all. I believe them that that is likely the case, but I hope it is for football reasons and not personality. My fear is that they have an opportunity to acquire a very talented QB on a cheap contract, but will let that slip by because he is outspoken and with potentially different political views from ownership that they worry will become a distraction in NY.
I really hope their qualms about Rosen are more substantive than that, but I fear they aren't.
The cheap contract thing is why I have soured on any deal involving Rosen. Originally, I was thinking if you could get him for our third or a third and a lower round throw in - great. Now, I don't want him.
That's because once you've found the right QB, via the draft, you have a 5 year window where you likely have your best chance of building a champion. Your QB is on a cheap rookie contract for 5 years until you potentially have to sign him to a contract worth 10s of millions of dollars.
Rosen is currently on the 2nd year of his contract. If we trade for him, barring injury/the team is mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, he's not playing this year.
Now we get to year 3 of the Rosen contract. Assuming the team shows an improvement this year, I can see the team extending Eli's contract for another year, Eli announcing it will be his final season, and Mara getting all Giddy over a Derek Jeter type final season send-off - Rosen rides the bench again.
Rosen enters year 4 - he starts but we still have no idea whether he's the guy.
The 5 year cheap rookie contract is a myth. There is no cheap 5th year option with QBs. Look at Winston and Mariota, both are making $21M on the 5th year option. Also, to elect the 5th year option on any player's contract, it has to be picked up by May at the end of the player's 3rd season. So in the case of Rosen, if he sits this year behind Eli, the Giants would only have 1 season before deciding to pick-up the 5th year option.
Also, to elect the 5th year option on any player's contract, it has to be picked up by May at the end of the player's 3rd season. So in the case of Rosen, if he sits this year behind Eli, the Giants would only have 1 season before deciding to pick-up the 5th year option.
I did not realize that was the time table for picking up the 5th year option. In that case, that enforces my feelings on a potential Rosen trade even more. Can't do it...no way. He's not playing this year barring a complete collapse. Mara will not allow Eli to be benched this year unless the season is a complete disaster.