"That's their guy," an NFL source told SNY on Wednesday. "They love him and they have for a while. I can't imagine they'll wait until 17. He's not likely to last that long."
I'd be extremely upset w Jones at 6 but I think its funny how sometimes the order of transactions governs the reaction.
Exhibit A: If the OBJ trade was:
OBJ
OV
for
Zeitel
Peppers
the 17th pick
the 95th pick
instead of a disjointed version of that, i think people would have been less upset.
If RD1 tomorrow turns out to be Wilkins at 6 and Jones at 17, I think Giant fans will be somewhat less likely to jump out windows than if the reverse order.
of posts sort of assume that people know more than actual evaluators:
Quote:
That would literally fly in the face of everything DG has said
David B. : 3:24 pm : link : reply
AND lived last year.
He wouldn't "REACH" for Darnold or Rosen at 2 last year -- which wouldn't have been much of a reach, but all of the sudden he WILL REACH this year for a guy who's biggest proponents say he's a mid 1st round talent AT BEST, and others have him way lower?
You might make the case at 17 (and I wouldn't)
If Jones is THE BEST GUY ON THIER BOARD at 6, there's something dreadfully wrong with their scouting.
Killing any prospect and determining whose board is right or wrong is the part that is "throwing shit on the wall" to quote another comment.
Jones is going to be a polarizing guy to rate because his team was dogshit.
RE: I listened to a recent Wharton Moneyball show about drafting QBs Â
After listening it left me wondering if the Giants, who have 12 picks, wouldn't be better off picking 2 or 3 QBs in this draft.
I think one of the really interesting developments in recent years was the Redskins taking both RG3 and Cousins in the same draft. In the end that approach worked out for them...they ended up covered at QB for 6 years despite losing one to injury and general incompetence.
Would the Giants be well served to, say, draft Finley and Stidham both?
How many shitty QBs do you want the team to roster?
What I'd want is to develop QBs to play for the Giants and/or act as trade chips. No other position comes close in terms of value.
I think Jones fits NYG QB & will provide a more seamless transition from Eli to the next guy as some of the alternatives. The old Belichick quote about building a team & not collecting talent - Jones seems to fit that quote a little more.
I tend to agree with you, I’d be okay with Jones. I know it’s hard to maneuver the draft, but if we can get a defensive blue chip player at 6 & then trade up for Jones wouldn’t be bad.
RE: I listened to a recent Wharton Moneyball show about drafting QBs Â
After listening it left me wondering if the Giants, who have 12 picks, wouldn't be better off picking 2 or 3 QBs in this draft.
I think one of the really interesting developments in recent years was the Redskins taking both RG3 and Cousins in the same draft. In the end that approach worked out for them...they ended up covered at QB for 6 years despite losing one to injury and general incompetence.
Would the Giants be well served to, say, draft Finley and Stidham both?
I would draft a QB every year.
But to your question - this would be an interesting draft to do this because:
(1) We have 12 picks. And this would increase our chances
of possibly finding a quality QB.
(2) Since this pool of QBs has no real first round
quality (except, IMV, Lock) then try using multiple
picks, of the 12, to snag a few with upside in the
middle rounds.
drafting a QB every year was a philosophy of teams that ran West Coast offenses, even with guys like Montana and Young in place. Matt Hasselbeck, Kurt Warner and Brett Favre were all in the same QB room for a time in Green Bay. San Fran always had guys like Steve Bono and Elvis Grbac as solid depth who got starting opportunities elsewhere.
You keep saying this. What blue chip defender? What if the draft goes Murray, Bosa, Lock, Quinnen, and Allen? Who’s the blue chip guy? You don’t like White, so who is it? Oliver, who might not fit our system? Gary and Sweat with health issues? I just don’t see it.
You keep saying this. What blue chip defender? What if the draft goes Murray, Bosa, Lock, Quinnen, and Allen? Who’s the blue chip guy? You don’t like White, so who is it? Oliver, who might not fit our system? Gary and Sweat with health issues? I just don’t see it.
If someone trades into top 5 it is most likely for a QB, so Murray and Haskins could be gone at that point..
You keep saying this. What blue chip defender? What if the draft goes Murray, Bosa, Lock, Quinnen, and Allen? Who’s the blue chip guy? You don’t like White, so who is it? Oliver, who might not fit our system? Gary and Sweat with health issues? I just don’t see it.
Oliver, Wilkins would be the top choices if it fell that way. By that I mean my top choices. I have a feeling the fact that Daniel Jones attended Mannings passing camp along with the Cutcliff connection will end up trumping less important things...like talent.
about Jones, but this is what you want your GM to do. You want him to find a QB he believes in and make sure he gets him. That's one of the main jobs of a GM. I have been a harsh critic of DG for not prioritizing the QB position. Now that he might do it I will not criticize him. If Jones becomes the QB that DG thinks he is, then we all win. If Jones is a bust, DG loses his job. It is really quite simple.
about Jones, but this is what you want your GM to do. You want him to find a QB he believes in and make sure he gets him. That's one of the main jobs of a GM. I have been a harsh critic of DG for not prioritizing the QB position. Now that he might do it I will not criticize him. If Jones becomes the QB that DG thinks he is, then we all win. If Jones is a bust, DG loses his job. It is really quite simple.
Yeah, even if I'm not a fan of Jones, I'll respect the move from DG. Truly putting himself on the line and making a firm commitment to the next era of this franchise is better than trying to cobble together a couple of 9-7 seasons at the twilight of Eli's career.
What if the Giants grab Lock or Jones and then use them as trade leverage to a team like the Broncos or Raiders? Obviously the Eli/Rivers situation was pretty unique, but if you hypothetically knew a team was in love with one of the QB's, it could be done?
Or what about taking Lock or Jones at 6 and then a trade back up to 11 for a guy like Allen, Oliver, or Wilkins? I'd say the likelihood that one of those guys falls to 17 is slim to none.
There's going to be movement at the top of the draft. I just wonder how involved the Giants will be.
My info hasn't changed. I say Williams or Allen. If gone Oliver or Wilkins. They like white but has character red flags is what I was told
So the Giants hypothetically have 4 DL rated above any other position player? That's wild
it's not at all wild when you consider the prospects available ... this draft is absolutely loaded with elite defensive talent. Like, overhaul your defense in 1 successful draft deep if they hit on their picks like last year.
Glad to hear the Giants seem to be in line with this logic ... Hockenson and Murray are the only offensive players worth taking top 10 ... possibly Williams/Taylor @ OT
of posts sort of assume that people know more than actual evaluators:
Quote:
That would literally fly in the face of everything DG has said
David B. : 3:24 pm : link : reply
AND lived last year.
He wouldn't "REACH" for Darnold or Rosen at 2 last year -- which wouldn't have been much of a reach, but all of the sudden he WILL REACH this year for a guy who's biggest proponents say he's a mid 1st round talent AT BEST, and others have him way lower?
You might make the case at 17 (and I wouldn't)
If Jones is THE BEST GUY ON THIER BOARD at 6, there's something dreadfully wrong with their scouting.
Killing any prospect and determining whose board is right or wrong is the part that is "throwing shit on the wall" to quote another comment.
Jones is going to be a polarizing guy to rate because his team was dogshit.
Ok, but find some evaluators that rate Jones above Darnold. Heck, fine one that rates him above Rosen.
Ok, but find some evaluators that rate Jones above Darnold. Heck, fine one that rates him above Rosen.
Find an evaluator that rated Tom Brady as a franchise QB.
Aaron Rodgers was rated 4th or 5th in his class. Not to mention, Darnold and Rosen aren't in this draft. I do know there aren't any RB's rated higher than Barkley this year....
Ok, but find some evaluators that rate Jones above Darnold. Heck, fine one that rates him above Rosen.
Find an evaluator that rated Tom Brady as a franchise QB.
Aaron Rodgers was rated 4th or 5th in his class. Not to mention, Darnold and Rosen aren't in this draft. I do know there aren't any RB's rated higher than Barkley this year....
No, Darnold and Rosen aren't in this draft, but picking Jones here basically says he's better than both of them because the QB need was the same.
The draft is a crapshoot. Pointing to players who outplayed their evaluations doesn't change the fact that there are a ton more guys who didn't. If the Giants see something in Jones that no one else does, great! But what are the odds?
was Aaron Rodgers considered 4th or 5th? He went 24th and people were STUNNED he fell that far. Here are a few mocks from 2005.
Draft King
2005 NFL Mock Draft
1. San Francisco 49ers - Alex Smith, QB, Utah
2. Miami Dolphins - Ronnie Brown, RB, Auburn
3. Cleveland Browns - Braylon Edwards, WR, Michigan
4. Chicago Bears - Mike Williams, WR, USC
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Cadillac Williams, RB, Auburn
6. Tennessee Titans - Adam "Pac Man" Jones, CB, West Virginia
7. Minnesota Vikings (from Oakland) - Shawne Merriman, DE/OLB, Maryland
8. Arizona Cardinals - Aaron Rodgers, QB, Cal
9. Washington Redskins - Antrel Rolle, CB, Miami
10. Detroit Lions - Derrick Johnson, OLB, Texas
11. Dallas Cowboys - Demarcus Ware, DE/OLB, Troy
12. San Diego Chargers (from NY Giants) - Troy Williamson, WR, South Carolina
13. Houston Texans - Alex Barron, OT, Florida St.
14. Carolina Panthers - Cedric Benson, RB, Texas
15. Kansas City Chiefs - Mark Clayton, WR, Oklahoma
Walter Football
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Aaron Rodgers, QB, California
It is well known that starting receiver Michael Clayton is lobbying for Mike Williams. Gruden struck gold by drafting Clayton in 2004 but Tampa Bay has absolutely nothing around him at the receiver position, so why not draft Williams to create arguably the best, young receiving duo in the NFL? However, the Buccaneers really want Alex Smith, meaning they could draft Aaron Rodgers (best quarterback in this draft) to deal him to the 49ers with some draft picks in exchange for Smith.
247sports
6. Tennessee Titans- QB Aaron Rodgers- California (JR)
Needing everything, the Titans could go any which way here, and probably will be looking for trades to add picks from a team hungry to deal up for Rodgers. If they stay put, this makes the most sense, because "Air" McNair is running on fumes. A cornerback is also a possibility here.
1. San Francisco - Aaron Rodgers - QB - Cal
The 49ers have to get it right here after several disastrous recent draft classes that have left them at the bottom of the NFL. They need to start with a young franchise caliber QB and have attempted to move out of this spot the past few months with no success. They have entertained several offers and would like to add Philip Rivers with no deal agreed upon. They are debating between Rodgers and Smith at this point and are leaning towards Rodgers as the first overall pick.
Alternate Pick: Alex Smith - QB - Utah
Am I not understanding? HS class? Not being snarky just genuinely questioning... Rodgers was considered the #1 or #2 best QB by "everyone".
The draft is a crapshoot. Pointing to players who outplayed their evaluations doesn't change the fact that there are a ton more guys who didn't. If the Giants see something in Jones that no one else does, great! But what are the odds?
Who is "no one else"?? most people have Jones as a top 2-3 QB in this class. It isn't like the Giants have uncovered some jewel in the rough here.
The draft is a crapshoot. Pointing to players who outplayed their evaluations doesn't change the fact that there are a ton more guys who didn't. If the Giants see something in Jones that no one else does, great! But what are the odds?
Who is "no one else"?? most people have Jones as a top 2-3 QB in this class. It isn't like the Giants have uncovered some jewel in the rough here.
guy never threw for 3,000 yards and is below 60% completions. I will throw the remote and the whole TV set ou the window if we draft this guy in the first round.
write up on Jones. Slow reading defenses and recognizing pressure. That will just increase at the NFL level with the greater speed of players on a consistent basis.
The draft is a crapshoot. Pointing to players who outplayed their evaluations doesn't change the fact that there are a ton more guys who didn't. If the Giants see something in Jones that no one else does, great! But what are the odds?
Who is "no one else"?? most people have Jones as a top 2-3 QB in this class. It isn't like the Giants have uncovered some jewel in the rough here.
This is madness.
Our own Sy has him as a back of the first round pick, at best. He consistently is ranked after Murray, Haskins, and Lock, one of whom will be available. And that’s before we discuss any advanced stats analysis, where he’s even worse. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/qbase-2019
But hey, the Giants know Duke QBs. Maybe they’re right about this one.
That said, if they DO somehow take Jones (or any QB) at #6 with one or more of those blue chippers on the board, there really can't be any doubting that they had conviction on the guy, for better or worse.
Why so GD? Clearly possible Gettleman & Co can panic and succumb to the pressure to get a QB on the roster for the future. Conviction can be blurred...
has him as his 2nd ranked QB. You conveniently left that part out.
Ahead of Murray or Lock.
Which makes him an outlier in that regard. He still doesn’t grade him high enough to take at six. Look, I hope the Giants are right and all the public evaluators are wrong. My personal opinion is he’s got bust written all over him.
He’s an intriguing player if you lose the narrative that his arm strength is a huge concern, and many reputable people say it isn’t a concern at all. Footwork and getting the ball out, smarts, so much more that goes into the qb position than just blazing arm strength. Jones highlights Duke - ( New Window )
He’s an intriguing player if you lose the narrative that his arm strength is a huge concern, and many reputable people say it isn’t a concern at all. Footwork and getting the ball out, smarts, so much more that goes into the qb position than just blazing arm strength. Jones highlights Duke - ( New Window )
Shhhhh, Jints Central says he sucks and he cant fling the ball like Lock and he is not fun to look at.
Simms: Giants selling Daniel Jones to tri-state area Â
Exhibit A: If the OBJ trade was:
OBJ
OV
for
Zeitel
Peppers
the 17th pick
the 95th pick
instead of a disjointed version of that, i think people would have been less upset.
If RD1 tomorrow turns out to be Wilkins at 6 and Jones at 17, I think Giant fans will be somewhat less likely to jump out windows than if the reverse order.
That's actually a great point.
But wait until it's Jones at #6 and Gary at #17!
David B. : 3:24 pm : link : reply
AND lived last year.
He wouldn't "REACH" for Darnold or Rosen at 2 last year -- which wouldn't have been much of a reach, but all of the sudden he WILL REACH this year for a guy who's biggest proponents say he's a mid 1st round talent AT BEST, and others have him way lower?
You might make the case at 17 (and I wouldn't)
If Jones is THE BEST GUY ON THIER BOARD at 6, there's something dreadfully wrong with their scouting.
Killing any prospect and determining whose board is right or wrong is the part that is "throwing shit on the wall" to quote another comment.
Jones is going to be a polarizing guy to rate because his team was dogshit.
I think one of the really interesting developments in recent years was the Redskins taking both RG3 and Cousins in the same draft. In the end that approach worked out for them...they ended up covered at QB for 6 years despite losing one to injury and general incompetence.
Would the Giants be well served to, say, draft Finley and Stidham both?
How many shitty QBs do you want the team to roster?
I think Jones fits NYG QB & will provide a more seamless transition from Eli to the next guy as some of the alternatives. The old Belichick quote about building a team & not collecting talent - Jones seems to fit that quote a little more.
I tend to agree with you, I’d be okay with Jones. I know it’s hard to maneuver the draft, but if we can get a defensive blue chip player at 6 & then trade up for Jones wouldn’t be bad.
I think one of the really interesting developments in recent years was the Redskins taking both RG3 and Cousins in the same draft. In the end that approach worked out for them...they ended up covered at QB for 6 years despite losing one to injury and general incompetence.
Would the Giants be well served to, say, draft Finley and Stidham both?
I would draft a QB every year.
But to your question - this would be an interesting draft to do this because:
(1) We have 12 picks. And this would increase our chances
of possibly finding a quality QB.
(2) Since this pool of QBs has no real first round
quality (except, IMV, Lock) then try using multiple
picks, of the 12, to snag a few with upside in the
middle rounds.
Sorry Terps (for venting your way). I'm just ticked off at the possibility of Daniel Jones at 6.
You keep saying this. What blue chip defender? What if the draft goes Murray, Bosa, Lock, Quinnen, and Allen? Who’s the blue chip guy? You don’t like White, so who is it? Oliver, who might not fit our system? Gary and Sweat with health issues? I just don’t see it.
Quote:
pushes a blue chip defender to #6.
You keep saying this. What blue chip defender? What if the draft goes Murray, Bosa, Lock, Quinnen, and Allen? Who’s the blue chip guy? You don’t like White, so who is it? Oliver, who might not fit our system? Gary and Sweat with health issues? I just don’t see it.
If someone trades into top 5 it is most likely for a QB, so Murray and Haskins could be gone at that point..
Quote:
pushes a blue chip defender to #6.
You keep saying this. What blue chip defender? What if the draft goes Murray, Bosa, Lock, Quinnen, and Allen? Who’s the blue chip guy? You don’t like White, so who is it? Oliver, who might not fit our system? Gary and Sweat with health issues? I just don’t see it.
Oliver, Wilkins would be the top choices if it fell that way. By that I mean my top choices. I have a feeling the fact that Daniel Jones attended Mannings passing camp along with the Cutcliff connection will end up trumping less important things...like talent.
You’ll be ok.
If you're nervous, count your toes. I'll do the mastermindin' around here.
Yeah, even if I'm not a fan of Jones, I'll respect the move from DG. Truly putting himself on the line and making a firm commitment to the next era of this franchise is better than trying to cobble together a couple of 9-7 seasons at the twilight of Eli's career.
Or what about taking Lock or Jones at 6 and then a trade back up to 11 for a guy like Allen, Oliver, or Wilkins? I'd say the likelihood that one of those guys falls to 17 is slim to none.
There's going to be movement at the top of the draft. I just wonder how involved the Giants will be.
Like that waaayyyy better than Jones at 6.
So the Giants hypothetically have 4 DL rated above any other position player? That's wild
Quote:
My info hasn't changed. I say Williams or Allen. If gone Oliver or Wilkins. They like white but has character red flags is what I was told
So the Giants hypothetically have 4 DL rated above any other position player? That's wild
it's not at all wild when you consider the prospects available ... this draft is absolutely loaded with elite defensive talent. Like, overhaul your defense in 1 successful draft deep if they hit on their picks like last year.
Glad to hear the Giants seem to be in line with this logic ... Hockenson and Murray are the only offensive players worth taking top 10 ... possibly Williams/Taylor @ OT
Thank you. Praying this is the case ... Defense, defense tomorrow night.
Quote:
That would literally fly in the face of everything DG has said
David B. : 3:24 pm : link : reply
AND lived last year.
He wouldn't "REACH" for Darnold or Rosen at 2 last year -- which wouldn't have been much of a reach, but all of the sudden he WILL REACH this year for a guy who's biggest proponents say he's a mid 1st round talent AT BEST, and others have him way lower?
You might make the case at 17 (and I wouldn't)
If Jones is THE BEST GUY ON THIER BOARD at 6, there's something dreadfully wrong with their scouting.
Killing any prospect and determining whose board is right or wrong is the part that is "throwing shit on the wall" to quote another comment.
Jones is going to be a polarizing guy to rate because his team was dogshit.
Ok, but find some evaluators that rate Jones above Darnold. Heck, fine one that rates him above Rosen.
Anywhere lower than 6 sounds better to me. Actually could see them try moving up from 17 to try and pick one.
Find an evaluator that rated Tom Brady as a franchise QB.
Aaron Rodgers was rated 4th or 5th in his class. Not to mention, Darnold and Rosen aren't in this draft. I do know there aren't any RB's rated higher than Barkley this year....
Quote:
Ok, but find some evaluators that rate Jones above Darnold. Heck, fine one that rates him above Rosen.
Find an evaluator that rated Tom Brady as a franchise QB.
Aaron Rodgers was rated 4th or 5th in his class. Not to mention, Darnold and Rosen aren't in this draft. I do know there aren't any RB's rated higher than Barkley this year....
No, Darnold and Rosen aren't in this draft, but picking Jones here basically says he's better than both of them because the QB need was the same.
The draft is a crapshoot. Pointing to players who outplayed their evaluations doesn't change the fact that there are a ton more guys who didn't. If the Giants see something in Jones that no one else does, great! But what are the odds?
Draft King
2005 NFL Mock Draft
1. San Francisco 49ers - Alex Smith, QB, Utah
2. Miami Dolphins - Ronnie Brown, RB, Auburn
3. Cleveland Browns - Braylon Edwards, WR, Michigan
4. Chicago Bears - Mike Williams, WR, USC
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Cadillac Williams, RB, Auburn
6. Tennessee Titans - Adam "Pac Man" Jones, CB, West Virginia
7. Minnesota Vikings (from Oakland) - Shawne Merriman, DE/OLB, Maryland
8. Arizona Cardinals - Aaron Rodgers, QB, Cal
9. Washington Redskins - Antrel Rolle, CB, Miami
10. Detroit Lions - Derrick Johnson, OLB, Texas
11. Dallas Cowboys - Demarcus Ware, DE/OLB, Troy
12. San Diego Chargers (from NY Giants) - Troy Williamson, WR, South Carolina
13. Houston Texans - Alex Barron, OT, Florida St.
14. Carolina Panthers - Cedric Benson, RB, Texas
15. Kansas City Chiefs - Mark Clayton, WR, Oklahoma
Walter Football
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Aaron Rodgers, QB, California
It is well known that starting receiver Michael Clayton is lobbying for Mike Williams. Gruden struck gold by drafting Clayton in 2004 but Tampa Bay has absolutely nothing around him at the receiver position, so why not draft Williams to create arguably the best, young receiving duo in the NFL? However, the Buccaneers really want Alex Smith, meaning they could draft Aaron Rodgers (best quarterback in this draft) to deal him to the 49ers with some draft picks in exchange for Smith.
247sports
6. Tennessee Titans- QB Aaron Rodgers- California (JR)
Needing everything, the Titans could go any which way here, and probably will be looking for trades to add picks from a team hungry to deal up for Rodgers. If they stay put, this makes the most sense, because "Air" McNair is running on fumes. A cornerback is also a possibility here.
Frank Coyle
Articles Home
2005 NFL Mock Draft
Round 1
Courtesy of Draft Insiders Digest
4/21/05
1. San Francisco - Aaron Rodgers - QB - Cal
The 49ers have to get it right here after several disastrous recent draft classes that have left them at the bottom of the NFL. They need to start with a young franchise caliber QB and have attempted to move out of this spot the past few months with no success. They have entertained several offers and would like to add Philip Rivers with no deal agreed upon. They are debating between Rodgers and Smith at this point and are leaning towards Rodgers as the first overall pick.
Alternate Pick: Alex Smith - QB - Utah
Am I not understanding? HS class? Not being snarky just genuinely questioning... Rodgers was considered the #1 or #2 best QB by "everyone".
Who is "no one else"?? most people have Jones as a top 2-3 QB in this class. It isn't like the Giants have uncovered some jewel in the rough here.
This is madness.
Quote:
The draft is a crapshoot. Pointing to players who outplayed their evaluations doesn't change the fact that there are a ton more guys who didn't. If the Giants see something in Jones that no one else does, great! But what are the odds?
Who is "no one else"?? most people have Jones as a top 2-3 QB in this class. It isn't like the Giants have uncovered some jewel in the rough here.
This is madness.
But I'm not arrogant enough to think I know more than scouts.
What’s predictable? That we’ve heard about 10-15 names associated with the Giants?
Quote:
The draft is a crapshoot. Pointing to players who outplayed their evaluations doesn't change the fact that there are a ton more guys who didn't. If the Giants see something in Jones that no one else does, great! But what are the odds?
Who is "no one else"?? most people have Jones as a top 2-3 QB in this class. It isn't like the Giants have uncovered some jewel in the rough here.
This is madness.
Our own Sy has him as a back of the first round pick, at best. He consistently is ranked after Murray, Haskins, and Lock, one of whom will be available. And that’s before we discuss any advanced stats analysis, where he’s even worse. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/qbase-2019
But hey, the Giants know Duke QBs. Maybe they’re right about this one.
Ahead of Murray or Lock.
...But I'm not arrogant enough to think I know more than scouts.
It’s too bad this sentiment isn’t more widely held on BBI.
That said, if they DO somehow take Jones (or any QB) at #6 with one or more of those blue chippers on the board, there really can't be any doubting that they had conviction on the guy, for better or worse.
Why so GD? Clearly possible Gettleman & Co can panic and succumb to the pressure to get a QB on the roster for the future. Conviction can be blurred...
Ahead of Murray or Lock.
Which makes him an outlier in that regard. He still doesn’t grade him high enough to take at six. Look, I hope the Giants are right and all the public evaluators are wrong. My personal opinion is he’s got bust written all over him.
Jones highlights Duke - ( New Window )
Shhhhh, Jints Central says he sucks and he cant fling the ball like Lock and he is not fun to look at.
Starting at 15:20 mark.
Simms on Daniel Jones - ( New Window )