Clearly enough. If josh Allen's there he's the pick
So awesome. Perfect fit for Bettchers D. And his coverage potential is rare for a guy his size. Super versatile, 5 FFs last year too. Love his potential in this defense.
Bottomline is that 2nd QB has to go Top 5 for this to become a legit possibility. Why? Because SF IS taking Bosa and the Jets are taking an edge rusher if they stay at #3.
So you Allen dreamers(LOL) better hope that Cincy is coming up to #3 for Haskins because imo that's the one real chance left for you guys.
Clearly enough. If josh Allen's there he's the pick
Obviously, there is a chance that is the case, as they may just love the guy so much that he trumps QB. I'd still go Haskins, but they are not necessarily me.
Allen is the betting favorite for the Giants pick on sportsbook.com. +225 for him, +250 for Jones, +300 for Oliver, +450 for Haskins. I don't think it's *that* far out there.
based on Sy’s review. And he’s persuaded me that Allen just isn’t an elite talent that should be in the upper half of this draft. There are too many 1x1 struggles and I don’t think he has plus quickness. And for an edge that’s a big deal in the NFL.
So I’m leaning more Lawrence or Oliver to upgrade the DL.
based on Sy’s review. And he’s persuaded me that Allen just isn’t an elite talent that should be in the upper half of this draft. There are too many 1x1 struggles and I don’t think he has plus quickness. And for an edge that’s a big deal in the NFL.
So I’m leaning more Lawrence or Oliver to upgrade the DL.
Pass rush is kinda like batting average no guy is going to beat his guy more than half the time. Every great pass rusher gets neutralized quite a bit. He's winning battles at a plenty high enough level and has amazing ability to force fumbles like Osi did and his potential in coverage is amazing. Great fit in this D.
Productions in the sec. he was doubled and gameplanned against and still had 17 sacks. I love him. Not sure how anyone can't but then I remind myself of my mantra. This is why we love the draft. It's all subjective
Productions in the sec. he was doubled and gameplanned against and still had 17 sacks. I love him. Not sure how anyone can't but then I remind myself of my mantra. This is why we love the draft. It's all subjective
Agreed. Random thought and a guy we've spoken little about but have you heard anything on Metcalf? Any interest there? Not my kind of guy but I wonder what Giants think of him.
based on Sy’s review. And he’s persuaded me that Allen just isn’t an elite talent that should be in the upper half of this draft. There are too many 1x1 struggles and I don’t think he has plus quickness. And for an edge that’s a big deal in the NFL.
So I’m leaning more Lawrence or Oliver to upgrade the DL.
Lol a nose tackle like Lawrence over Allen. The man had 17.5 sacks in the sec, over 20 tackles for loss, covers well for an edge guy, and has strong measureables. Not sure what more you want, it's just nitpicking at this point. Also, at the combine, when tackles were asked to name hardest player to defend against, it was Josh Allen. Khalil Mack type upside
Great 5 minute watch on Allen's elite efficiency as a pass rusher Â
based on Sy’s review. And he’s persuaded me that Allen just isn’t an elite talent that should be in the upper half of this draft. There are too many 1x1 struggles and I don’t think he has plus quickness. And for an edge that’s a big deal in the NFL.
So I’m leaning more Lawrence or Oliver to upgrade the DL.
Lol a nose tackle like Lawrence over Allen. The man had 17.5 sacks in the sec, over 20 tackles for loss, covers well for an edge guy, and has strong measureables. Not sure what more you want, it's just nitpicking at this point. Also, at the combine, when tackles were asked to name hardest player to defend against, it was Josh Allen. Khalil Mack type upside
Productions in the sec. he was doubled and gameplanned against and still had 17 sacks. I love him. Not sure how anyone can't but then I remind myself of my mantra. This is why we love the draft. It's all subjective
Well, someone disagrees, or he would not be falling to 6. That's not to say he's not good. But if the Jets go with Oliver and TB with White over Allen, they obviously disagree with your assessment. FWIW, so does Sy.
If Allen is on the board, I believe there is a strong chance he will be the pick, which is why I am hoping all three of him, Quinnen, and Bosa are gone. If one of those three falls, I think there is a good chance the Giants will take him, much like Denver passed on a QB for Chubb last year.
I’d support kicker and punter at 6 and 17 to avoid Jones or Haskins.
I absolutely would not take either guy at 6. At 17? Maybe...depends on the rest of the board. Personally, I don't want Haskins at all, under any circumstances.
Bottomline is that 2nd QB has to go Top 5 for this to become a legit possibility. Why? Because SF IS taking Bosa and the Jets are taking an edge rusher if they stay at #3.
So you Allen dreamers(LOL) better hope that Cincy is coming up to #3 for Haskins because imo that's the one real chance left for you guys.
Don't necessarily need two QBs to go top 5 in order for Allen to fall to the Giants.
Murray, Bosa and Williams are pretty much a given in the top 5 and Tampa supposedly loves White. If the Jets or Raiders go for Oliver that's a top 5 with only one QB... leaving the Giants free to select... Daniel Jones.
...I think edge rushers in general are perceived as relatively high-risk picks. I'm not sure that perception is accurate, and it's somewhat offset by the League's appetite for the next Von Miller; but I can see a risk-averse GM leaning toward the putative "safety" of Quinnen/Jonah Wiliams, or a more complete, "base" DE like Bosa. If Allen is on the board at #6, that kind of bias might be a factor, along with any other limitations in his skill set that have shown up on tape.
No one ever agrees. It is what makes the draft great. Bart Scott called Barkley overrated last year as example. I love Allen. If he's there I understand he's the pick but we'll see
Productions in the sec. he was doubled and gameplanned against and still had 17 sacks. I love him. Not sure how anyone can't but then I remind myself of my mantra. This is why we love the draft. It's all subjective
I know the production. I’m an avid college football watcher and was discussing Allen back in September. But I thought Sy had a very reasonable point. That’s all.
I wouldn’t hate the pick, like I would with the selection of Haskins or Jones, but just think there would be better value elsewhere.
Productions in the sec. he was doubled and gameplanned against and still had 17 sacks. I love him. Not sure how anyone can't but then I remind myself of my mantra. This is why we love the draft. It's all subjective
I know the production. I’m an avid college football watcher and was discussing Allen back in September. But I thought Sy had a very reasonable point. That’s all.
I wouldn’t hate the pick, like I would with the selection of Haskins or Jones, but just think there would be better value elsewhere.
But you have to keep in mind the drop off on edge rushers after the top tiers are gone tho.
If they think edge is absolute priority... they will take Allen if he grades equally or just about the same as an interior lineman.
...I think edge rushers in general are perceived as relatively high-risk picks. I'm not sure that perception is accurate, and it's somewhat offset by the League's appetite for the next Von Miller; but I can see a risk-averse GM leaning toward the putative "safety" of Quinnen/Jonah Wiliams, or a more complete, "base" DE like Bosa. If Allen is on the board at #6, that kind of bias might be a factor, along with any other limitations in his skill set that have shown up on tape.
Toughest guy to play against as dubbed by his peers at the Combine. Thats pretty good praise directly from the guys that tried to block him. Highest pass rush efficiency rate and he dropped back alot in Kentucky's D. Excellent coverage skills on or in the level potentially of a Myles Jack.
There is a ton to like there for how he'd be used in Bettchers D. Rumors were Bettchers like him the most of anyone while Getts loves Quinnen.
love to get Allen, but a lot has to happen for him to fall to us, including as others have said, a second QB going in the top five. Even then, the Buccaneers could take him.
love to get Allen, but a lot has to happen for him to fall to us, including as others have said, a second QB going in the top five. Even then, the Buccaneers could take him.
Murray.
Q. Williams.
QB (Trade).
Bosa.
Allen.
Dont forget Oliver has gotten plenty of top 5 buzz. And a mention or 2 of Hock.
Its what Allen offers in his skillset that makes him a much better option for us. We lack in the pass rush department and Bettchers D is predicated on pressure. As a bonus he has excellent coverage ability and shows great awareness defending the pass game.
I think I would lose my mind if both Allen and Williams were there at Â
Clearly enough. If josh Allen's there he's the pick
Well, I would hope so. IMO Q.Williams and Allen are the best two players in this draft. If either make it to the Giants I hope they take him. But I am not counting on the 5 teams ahead of them to all be dumb enough to let one of them pass through.
Jets don’t love Allen as much as people assume. They are still trying to trade down, borderline desperately.
Raiders - who the hell knows. DK Metcalf ? Oliver ? Wouldn’t be surprised with anyone they take ... i believe they also love Haskins, Gruden gets “his guy?”. OAK is the wildcard
Bucs - White
Murray, Q, Bosa, ___, White, Allen?
RE: Great 5 minute watch on Allen's elite efficiency as a pass rusher Â
Clearly enough. If josh Allen's there he's the pick
Well, I would hope so. IMO Q.Williams and Allen are the best two players in this draft. If either make it to the Giants I hope they take him. But I am not counting on the 5 teams ahead of them to all be dumb enough to let one of them pass through.
Imagine trading 17, 37 and next years 2nd or first (if Jets are that desperate to trade out) FOR BOTH Q and Allen? Q is a special talent to me that doesnt come out every year and he and Allen would absolutely transform the Defense the moment they step on the field. Trade up from 95 with a fourth and fifth for another selected target in a deep red chip draft.
Clearly enough. If josh Allen's there he's the pick
Well, I would hope so. IMO Q.Williams and Allen are the best two players in this draft. If either make it to the Giants I hope they take him. But I am not counting on the 5 teams ahead of them to all be dumb enough to let one of them pass through.
Imagine trading 17, 37 and next years 2nd or first (if Jets are that desperate to trade out) FOR BOTH Q and Allen? Q is a special talent to me that doesnt come out every year and he and Allen would absolutely transform the Defense the moment they step on the field. Trade up from 95 with a fourth and fifth for another selected target in a deep red chip draft.
Team needs a lot of players, Rather get Allen, Wilkins and Risner with the 3 picks.
Clearly enough. If josh Allen's there he's the pick
Well, I would hope so. IMO Q.Williams and Allen are the best two players in this draft. If either make it to the Giants I hope they take him. But I am not counting on the 5 teams ahead of them to all be dumb enough to let one of them pass through.
Imagine trading 17, 37 and next years 2nd or first (if Jets are that desperate to trade out) FOR BOTH Q and Allen? Q is a special talent to me that doesnt come out every year and he and Allen would absolutely transform the Defense the moment they step on the field. Trade up from 95 with a fourth and fifth for another selected target in a deep red chip draft.
I wouldn’t give up next years 1, but otherwise yes absolutely. They have the ammo to move back into round 3 ... quality not quantity for me. Allen, Williams ... wow. Not happening, but it’d be lovely
Dream scenario
6-allen
17-bush
37-risner
Trade #95 and a 2020 2 or 3 for Rosen
Those 4 players go a LONG way in turning things around
If Allen is on the board I just dont see anyway we take a QB.
Trade up not a possibility?
Would you put Ed Oliver next on the list if Q, Bosa, and Allen are gone?
So awesome. Perfect fit for Bettchers D. And his coverage potential is rare for a guy his size. Super versatile, 5 FFs last year too. Love his potential in this defense.
So you Allen dreamers(LOL) better hope that Cincy is coming up to #3 for Haskins because imo that's the one real chance left for you guys.
Obviously, there is a chance that is the case, as they may just love the guy so much that he trumps QB. I'd still go Haskins, but they are not necessarily me.
That said - say it with me - HOPING FOR HASKINS!
I like rosas ... punters good this year?
I have wanted him here since November 2018
So I’m leaning more Lawrence or Oliver to upgrade the DL.
So I’m leaning more Lawrence or Oliver to upgrade the DL.
Pass rush is kinda like batting average no guy is going to beat his guy more than half the time. Every great pass rusher gets neutralized quite a bit. He's winning battles at a plenty high enough level and has amazing ability to force fumbles like Osi did and his potential in coverage is amazing. Great fit in this D.
Agreed. Random thought and a guy we've spoken little about but have you heard anything on Metcalf? Any interest there? Not my kind of guy but I wonder what Giants think of him.
So I’m leaning more Lawrence or Oliver to upgrade the DL.
Lol a nose tackle like Lawrence over Allen. The man had 17.5 sacks in the sec, over 20 tackles for loss, covers well for an edge guy, and has strong measureables. Not sure what more you want, it's just nitpicking at this point. Also, at the combine, when tackles were asked to name hardest player to defend against, it was Josh Allen. Khalil Mack type upside
Allen breakdown - ( New Window )
Quote:
based on Sy’s review. And he’s persuaded me that Allen just isn’t an elite talent that should be in the upper half of this draft. There are too many 1x1 struggles and I don’t think he has plus quickness. And for an edge that’s a big deal in the NFL.
So I’m leaning more Lawrence or Oliver to upgrade the DL.
Lol a nose tackle like Lawrence over Allen. The man had 17.5 sacks in the sec, over 20 tackles for loss, covers well for an edge guy, and has strong measureables. Not sure what more you want, it's just nitpicking at this point. Also, at the combine, when tackles were asked to name hardest player to defend against, it was Josh Allen. Khalil Mack type upside
Peers saying that is a huge endorsement
Well, someone disagrees, or he would not be falling to 6. That's not to say he's not good. But if the Jets go with Oliver and TB with White over Allen, they obviously disagree with your assessment. FWIW, so does Sy.
If Allen is on the board, I believe there is a strong chance he will be the pick, which is why I am hoping all three of him, Quinnen, and Bosa are gone. If one of those three falls, I think there is a good chance the Giants will take him, much like Denver passed on a QB for Chubb last year.
So you Allen dreamers(LOL) better hope that Cincy is coming up to #3 for Haskins because imo that's the one real chance left for you guys.
Don't necessarily need two QBs to go top 5 in order for Allen to fall to the Giants.
Murray, Bosa and Williams are pretty much a given in the top 5 and Tampa supposedly loves White. If the Jets or Raiders go for Oliver that's a top 5 with only one QB... leaving the Giants free to select... Daniel Jones.
;>)
BBI Meltdown follows....
BBI Meltdown follows....
You mean Daniel Jones causes the meltdown.
Quote:
instead.
BBI Meltdown follows....
You mean Daniel Jones causes the meltdown.
Either one will cause a meltdown. I just think Haskins is a more likely pick at 6.
I know the production. I’m an avid college football watcher and was discussing Allen back in September. But I thought Sy had a very reasonable point. That’s all.
I wouldn’t hate the pick, like I would with the selection of Haskins or Jones, but just think there would be better value elsewhere.
Quote:
Productions in the sec. he was doubled and gameplanned against and still had 17 sacks. I love him. Not sure how anyone can't but then I remind myself of my mantra. This is why we love the draft. It's all subjective
I know the production. I’m an avid college football watcher and was discussing Allen back in September. But I thought Sy had a very reasonable point. That’s all.
I wouldn’t hate the pick, like I would with the selection of Haskins or Jones, but just think there would be better value elsewhere.
But you have to keep in mind the drop off on edge rushers after the top tiers are gone tho.
If they think edge is absolute priority... they will take Allen if he grades equally or just about the same as an interior lineman.
Toughest guy to play against as dubbed by his peers at the Combine. Thats pretty good praise directly from the guys that tried to block him. Highest pass rush efficiency rate and he dropped back alot in Kentucky's D. Excellent coverage skills on or in the level potentially of a Myles Jack.
There is a ton to like there for how he'd be used in Bettchers D. Rumors were Bettchers like him the most of anyone while Getts loves Quinnen.
Murray.
Q. Williams.
QB (Trade).
Bosa.
Allen.
Murray.
Q. Williams.
QB (Trade).
Bosa.
Allen.
Dont forget Oliver has gotten plenty of top 5 buzz. And a mention or 2 of Hock.
Its what Allen offers in his skillset that makes him a much better option for us. We lack in the pass rush department and Bettchers D is predicated on pressure. As a bonus he has excellent coverage ability and shows great awareness defending the pass game.
Either way, the Giants would be getting someone special. Happiness would then ensue.
Jets don’t love Allen as much as people assume. They are still trying to trade down, borderline desperately.
Raiders - who the hell knows. DK Metcalf ? Oliver ? Wouldn’t be surprised with anyone they take ... i believe they also love Haskins, Gruden gets “his guy?”. OAK is the wildcard
Bucs - White
Murray, Q, Bosa, ___, White, Allen?
Allen breakdown - ( New Window )
Who are those dorks?
Quote:
Clearly enough. If josh Allen's there he's the pick
Well, I would hope so. IMO Q.Williams and Allen are the best two players in this draft. If either make it to the Giants I hope they take him. But I am not counting on the 5 teams ahead of them to all be dumb enough to let one of them pass through.
Imagine trading 17, 37 and next years 2nd or first (if Jets are that desperate to trade out) FOR BOTH Q and Allen? Q is a special talent to me that doesnt come out every year and he and Allen would absolutely transform the Defense the moment they step on the field. Trade up from 95 with a fourth and fifth for another selected target in a deep red chip draft.
Quote:
In comment 14403012 jtgiants said:
Quote:
Clearly enough. If josh Allen's there he's the pick
Well, I would hope so. IMO Q.Williams and Allen are the best two players in this draft. If either make it to the Giants I hope they take him. But I am not counting on the 5 teams ahead of them to all be dumb enough to let one of them pass through.
Imagine trading 17, 37 and next years 2nd or first (if Jets are that desperate to trade out) FOR BOTH Q and Allen? Q is a special talent to me that doesnt come out every year and he and Allen would absolutely transform the Defense the moment they step on the field. Trade up from 95 with a fourth and fifth for another selected target in a deep red chip draft.
6-Williams/Allen
17-Bush/Burns
37-Risner/Ya-Sin
Quote:
In comment 14403012 jtgiants said:
Quote:
Clearly enough. If josh Allen's there he's the pick
Well, I would hope so. IMO Q.Williams and Allen are the best two players in this draft. If either make it to the Giants I hope they take him. But I am not counting on the 5 teams ahead of them to all be dumb enough to let one of them pass through.
Imagine trading 17, 37 and next years 2nd or first (if Jets are that desperate to trade out) FOR BOTH Q and Allen? Q is a special talent to me that doesnt come out every year and he and Allen would absolutely transform the Defense the moment they step on the field. Trade up from 95 with a fourth and fifth for another selected target in a deep red chip draft.
I wouldn’t give up next years 1, but otherwise yes absolutely. They have the ammo to move back into round 3 ... quality not quantity for me. Allen, Williams ... wow. Not happening, but it’d be lovely
I hope so.
Even having LB White ahead?
Even having LB White ahead?
Talent evaluation is highly subjective and no ones hit percentage is near 100%