I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
no it doesn't tank rosen's value for the thousandth time.
made the remark on the backend of a comment, to the effect of things could change or it being fluid.
JT has given us some great scoops. The reality of any situation in the draft, much less life, is value to benefit ratio. No different in this scenario. I think pick 37 is where the intersection of the 2 roads occurs, maybe even 17 if it's for JR and PP and we supplement with a later pick.
Dont want to sound like a party pooper, but would much rather Rosen at 37 than Jones at 17. It allows NYG to either fill 2 defensive holes, maybe fill a defensive hole and OT hole, etc. will have a much better talent at 17 than 37. I also dont see Jones as an amazing QB in the future, he could be an Alex Smith type of game manager which is fine I wouldnt touch him at 6, but Rosen has more upside and if he was in this draft, I would take Rosen at 37 IF available.
with the argument that you'd have to cut Eli if you take Rosen...if not, you're wasting the first two years of his rookie deal and you'll have a much shorter window of playing time in which to evaluate him for his 2nd contract which isn't ideal for a QB.
before they draft Murray or they'll have no leverage. Trading Rosen might come as late as while they're on the clock, but it won't come after their pick.
before they draft Murray or they'll have no leverage. Trading Rosen might come as late as while they're on the clock, but it won't come after their pick.
this is nonsense. they do not have to deal rosen before the pick to get value back.
I'm by no means a QB scholar and do truly appreciate all the info I've gained just reading here on Big Blue. As far as who is the best QB coming out this year, my take is pretty much that I trust the guys picking and will support whomever it is, although I am in the "Eli still has a little time left" camp. My only real thought is about Rosen and I just have never been comfortable with a California kid, who played college in California, coming into the Meadowlands. The closest he has ever been to bad weather, according to an interview I read, was spending Christmas in Philly with relatives. Does that bother anyone else, or is it just me?
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
LOL the Cards absolutely want to move Rosen before the draft but only 2 teams are interested. Yes the trade price would plummet. That being said, If Rosen is someone that DG wants, he is playing this thing perfectly.
810pm: Cards select Kyler Murray
811pm: DG calls AZ Ill give you our third rounder and a 2nd rounder next year. And the negotiation begins.
I think DG will want to know if he can get Rosen at the price he wants before we go on the clock for 17.
This will be fun to watch. Regardless of what has been reported of Rosens personality. Hes the number 1 QB in this draft (so to speak). I dont think its debatable outside the playmaking ability of Murray. IMO
The Pats have a sh*tload of picks too. I could see BelliCheat making a better offer to Land Rosen. Maybe give his 32 pick and another to out beat our 37 pick nd another...We have the capital. I believe in Dan S. scouting which says Rosen is better then all in this years class. Only thing is you get to his 2nd contract $$$ 1-2 years sooner then say a Lock, Jones, Haskins.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
LOL the Cards absolutely want to move Rosen before the draft but only 2 teams are interested. Yes the trade price would plummet. That being said, If Rosen is someone that DG wants, he is playing this thing perfectly.
810pm: Cards select Kyler Murray
811pm: DG calls AZ Ill give you our third rounder and a 2nd rounder next year. And the negotiation begins.
I think DG will want to know if he can get Rosen at the price he wants before we go on the clock for 17.
This will be fun to watch. Regardless of what has been reported of Rosens personality. Hes the number 1 QB in this draft (so to speak). I dont think its debatable outside the playmaking ability of Murray. IMO
you are totally wrong. here is a role play for you:
1) Cards: We select Kyler Murray.
2) Giants: Hello Cardinals. We were going to give you a 2nd round pick for Rosen but now that you have selected Kyler Murray we will, cleverly, only give you a 3rd rounder.
3) Cards: No.
There are TWO threads on BBI right now based on the same source, but folks are acting like it is a second source. It's not.
True, my comment was more so directed at people who think this has no chance of happening when its becoming clear the Giants have clear interest in him. But quoting you was unneeded.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
LOL the Cards absolutely want to move Rosen before the draft but only 2 teams are interested. Yes the trade price would plummet. That being said, If Rosen is someone that DG wants, he is playing this thing perfectly.
810pm: Cards select Kyler Murray
811pm: DG calls AZ Ill give you our third rounder and a 2nd rounder next year. And the negotiation begins.
I think DG will want to know if he can get Rosen at the price he wants before we go on the clock for 17.
This will be fun to watch. Regardless of what has been reported of Rosens personality. Hes the number 1 QB in this draft (so to speak). I dont think its debatable outside the playmaking ability of Murray. IMO
you are totally wrong. here is a role play for you:
1) Cards: We select Kyler Murray.
2) Giants: Hello Cardinals. We were going to give you a 2nd round pick for Rosen but now that you have selected Kyler Murray we will, cleverly, only give you a 3rd rounder.
3) Cards: No.
See how easy that was?
Did you not read The negotiation begins. Reading helps ;-)
Dont want to sound like a party pooper, but would much rather Rosen at 37 than Jones at 17. It allows NYG to either fill 2 defensive holes, maybe fill a defensive hole and OT hole, etc. will have a much better talent at 17 than 37. I also dont see Jones as an amazing QB in the future, he could be an Alex Smith type of game manager which is fine I wouldnt touch him at 6, but Rosen has more upside and if he was in this draft, I would take Rosen at 37 IF available.
I'd go a step further. I'd prefer Rosen at #17 over Jones at #17.
Big Blue United
@BigBlueUnited
13m13 minutes ago
Sal Paolantonio made it very clear on ESPN moments ago that if Murray, Haskins, Lock & Jones are gone by #17 Overall, the Giants will look to either trade #37 to get back into the end of the 1st Round to select QB Will Grier, or trade for Josh Rosen.
of waiting until pick 17 to take a QB if he's there.
The only situation where that makes sense is if the Giants have agreed to the framework of a Rosen deal pending on what happens at 17.
They've basically set the whole thing up like a Hedge Fund would. They get to use the #6 on a QB while hedging the risk of waiting until 17 by knowing they have Rosen in the bag, if necessary.
Dont want to sound like a party pooper, but would much rather Rosen at 37 than Jones at 17. It allows NYG to either fill 2 defensive holes, maybe fill a defensive hole and OT hole, etc. will have a much better talent at 17 than 37. I also dont see Jones as an amazing QB in the future, he could be an Alex Smith type of game manager which is fine I wouldnt touch him at 6, but Rosen has more upside and if he was in this draft, I would take Rosen at 37 IF available.
I'd go a step further. I'd prefer Rosen at #17 over Jones at #17.
I would too. But the Cards will have zero negotiating power after they select Murray. If Im the Giants, I lowball the fuck out of them with the knowledge that they will most likely accept #37. But Im not offering that up first. No reason to.
Lombardo is simply making an article out of the earlier Schefter news. This isn't "new" or a "confirmation".
Yes but Adam Schefter said the Giants have reached out more than any other team. At this point there has to be some smoke.
The lower the picks the more willing it seems they would be to gamble on his personality. Because if you get him for lets say a 3rd round pick if he 'acts up' cutting the cord or trading him is much easier than if you spent lets say #17 on him.
Also its a better sell for him to sit if you got him for a lower pick than a higher one. Giants want to continue to ride Eli.
you are totally wrong. here is a role play for you:
1) Cards: We select Kyler Murray.
2) Giants: Hello Cardinals. We were going to give you a 2nd round pick for Rosen but now that you have selected Kyler Murray we will, cleverly, only give you a 3rd rounder.
3) Cards: No.
See how easy that was?
OK - let's say the Cards say no in that scenario. Are they prepared to go into the season with both Rosen and Murray? If they aren't, then don't they need to move Rosen?
Big Blue United
@BigBlueUnited
13m13 minutes ago
Sal Paolantonio made it very clear on ESPN moments ago that if Murray, Haskins, Lock & Jones are gone by #17 Overall, the Giants will look to either trade #37 to get back into the end of the 1st Round to select QB Will Grier, or trade for Josh Rosen.
^This. The Giants will take any of those QBs at #17 first, although I hate the idea of trading back into the first round for Grier. Just trade for Rosen.
Many believe Rosen would be best QB in this years class. Looks like Murray will go 1, Haskins top 10 and maybe others in 1st Rd. Other teams will be making offers. Rosens value may be top 10 even with loss of one year of rookie contract. Getting him with 17 still a bargain. Maybe flip 3rds from the last Gs hold and first Zona has.
you are totally wrong. here is a role play for you:
1) Cards: We select Kyler Murray.
2) Giants: Hello Cardinals. We were going to give you a 2nd round pick for Rosen but now that you have selected Kyler Murray we will, cleverly, only give you a 3rd rounder.
3) Cards: No.
See how easy that was?
OK - let's say the Cards say no in that scenario. Are they prepared to go into the season with both Rosen and Murray? If they aren't, then don't they need to move Rosen?
my guess is yes if they have to. but most likely they get a 2nd rounder tonight. or when someone gets hurt in pre-season.
Remember - Gettleman went to personally watch Grier. I wouldn't sleep on him. He is similar to Romo IMO. Slippery and a downfield playmaker. Can throw on the move and create.
If Lock or Jones are available at 17, we take the available QB and do not trade for Rosen. If there is NOT a QB DG likes at 17, he pulls the trigger on the Rosen trade (consistent with 'let's see how the draft goes') and trades down with the 17 pick to recoup some of the draft capital lost in Rosen trade. This would be consistent with what JonC has mentioned.
Tonight should be an interesting night. Let's Go!!!
not sure I buy Paolantonio's argument... that would assume that "any QB will do"... I don't buy that for the face of the New York Giants.
This is very true - it would mean the Giants have determined they wouldn't mind any of Lock, Jones, Grier or Rosen. It could easily be the case. All 4 are very interesting projecting into Shurmur's O.
I think the majority of football fans would agree that the Giants getting, Barkley, Rosen and keeping both of our first round picks this year would be a major win (on paper) for the DG regime. Itd be a great move.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
Whoever wants Rosen is just refusing to make an offer before AZ takes a QB. Not Rocket Science.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
no it doesn't tank rosen's value for the thousandth time.
Not Rosen's value. It's the value of AZ's position that tanks.
Sounds like if the guy QB they want isn't there at 17
Remember - Gettleman went to personally watch Grier. I wouldn't sleep on him. He is similar to Romo IMO. Slippery and a downfield playmaker. Can throw on the move and create.
True, but why trade back into the first round for him? Just to get the fifth year option? The cost is too high. I'm also not sure his personality fits with the Giants.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
no it doesn't tank rosen's value for the thousandth time.
Not Rosen's value. It's the value of AZ's position that tanks.
are taking A(our need for a future QB) + B (Rosen being available) and thinking it = C (trade)
when its very possible A and B have nothing to do with C if the Giants don't like Rosen.
of waiting until pick 17 to take a QB if he's there.
The only situation where that makes sense is if the Giants have agreed to the framework of a Rosen deal pending on what happens at 17.
They've basically set the whole thing up like a Hedge Fund would. They get to use the #6 on a QB while hedging the risk of waiting until 17 by knowing they have Rosen in the bag, if necessary.
The reason it makes sense is they dont HAVE to select a QB this year. They can take a game changer on defense and select a QB later on. If this were the Jets last year, it would be a different story.
to have something to write about. We will see how it plays out tonight. Some of it happens every year. We will do whats in the best intrests of the Giants not anybody else.
They go D at 6, then wait to see if Jones slips to 17.
If Jones is off the board at 17, as jtgiants has mentioned - they look to trade down from 17 to pick up an extra pick between 37 and 95 and squarely into the flat area of red chips.
With the trade down pick in the 20's/early 30's, the Giants select Grier or use that pick to trade for Rosen. Can't wait to see how it plays out.
with the argument that you'd have to cut Eli if you take Rosen...if not, you're wasting the first two years of his rookie deal and you'll have a much shorter window of playing time in which to evaluate him for his 2nd contract which isn't ideal for a QB.
They are only losing year 2 of his contract not the first 2 years. And I do not agree that they would have to cut Eli if they acquire Rosen.
He sits unless Eli is playing awful and the season is over by week 8. Even if he sits the entire season, I would think the Giants move on from Eli after this year. So they would have two full seasons (barring missed games) to evaluate Rosen for his second deal.
Big Blue United
@BigBlueUnited
13m13 minutes ago
Sal Paolantonio made it very clear on ESPN moments ago that if Murray, Haskins, Lock & Jones are gone by #17 Overall, the Giants will look to either trade #37 to get back into the end of the 1st Round to select QB Will Grier, or trade for Josh Rosen.
That would probably enrage me more than anything if the Giants used an asset that could be used to acquire Rosen on Will Grier who is already 24.
I guess this means they seriously consider Grier as a good starter in this league. Just my opinion on a possible Rosen trade. #17 for Rosen and Haasan Reddick. May be why NYG cleared cap space with Zietler re-structure.
on a rebuilding young team. Less disruptions the better. Rosen sitting behind ELI will be a huge disruption. He knows that. He told ELI he would be back and that wont work in this scenario. We will see.
with an Eli/Grier season and win 6 games (the o/u Vegas has) does that mean with 4 possible franchise QBs Giants pass on QB next year for Grier or is it another Lauletta/Webb/Nassib situation but with much worse lost draft capital
They go D at 6, then wait to see if Jones slips to 17.
If Jones is off the board at 17, as jtgiants has mentioned - they look to trade down from 17 to pick up an extra pick between 37 and 95 and squarely into the flat area of red chips.
With the trade down pick in the 20's/early 30's, the Giants select Grier or use that pick to trade for Rosen. Can't wait to see how it plays out.
I think that's the plan, except that they will wait to see if Jones or Lock slips to 17. If not, trade down to get a player and an extra day two pick. I'd just rather trade for Rosen than draft Grier.
for Rosen I don't think they're willing to give up their 2nd rounder based on reports weeks back and Gettleman's comments on how deep the draft is and wanting more picks in the 3rd and 4th rounds. If it happens, my opinion is that it'll be for their #95 pick.
Remember - Gettleman went to personally watch Grier. I wouldn't sleep on him. He is similar to Romo IMO. Slippery and a downfield playmaker. Can throw on the move and create.
I agree. I'm all over the place on who they should take. I've even said if the top 4 are gone by 17 maybe they should just take Rosen but I don't dislike Grier as much as others on here. I see some Mayfield in him and I agree on the Romo comparison. Trade back and get an extra pick and get Grier.
not sure I buy Paolantonio's argument... that would assume that "any QB will do"... I don't buy that for the face of the New York Giants.
Eric, the other obvious flaw in Palantonio's premise is that Cards just hang out while the Giants wait to see who's left on their QB board when pick 17 rolls around. Any team, at any time, could swoop in. This is one of those Conklin/Floyd situations where intentions appear to be obvious..
The only thing for certain tonight is that events will NOT unfold as predicted or as Giants might wish in the best of all possible worlds.
It makes so much damn sense on so many levels its mind boggling.
The cost for Rosen could go up if some of the QB-hungry teams don't get their guy in the first round. If DG wants to do this, me might be smart to pull the trigger earlier rather than later. If they think Lock or Jones > Rosen, then. sure, they should wait. If they think Rosen > the QBs in this draft, I say make the trade as soon as the Cards draft Murray.
Remember - Gettleman went to personally watch Grier. I wouldn't sleep on him. He is similar to Romo IMO. Slippery and a downfield playmaker. Can throw on the move and create.
Speaking of Romo, not sure how the guy went undrafted. Really his only knock was playing for a small school:
From an old Draft Insiders profile for 2003:
Quote:
Positional Overview excerpt
The small college group of QBs may be the strongest in memory, but has received little fanfare yet has the upside potential to make this a bonanza for the 32 clubs hunting for young QB talent. With the current high demand for NFL caliber passers, one can expect several late picks at this position as clubs search for developmental passers that they can refine further on practice squads and in NFL Europe.
Smooth strong small college passer completed an excellent senior season at the Division 1 AA level that earned him the Walter Payton Award, symbolic of the level's best player. Tony completed a record setting career that included three consecutive Ohio Valley Conference Player of the Year awards in addition to numerous first team All-American teams. He is a fine athlete with a live arm and the ability to make all the throws. He has shown excellent accuracy, touch and timing as a passer with the ability to hit receivers in stride on a consistent basis. He has operated mainly from the shotgun and has decent setup technique when starting from under center.
He has a very quick release with a smooth compact delivery that wastes little motion that allows him to get the ball off nicely when under pressure.
He has a good arm with the ability to throw the short and intermediate passes exceptionally well. He needs some work on the deep ball with improved arm strength and better foot positioning necessary to increase his completion %. He has a good feel for pressure in the pocket with the mobility to avoid tacklers and make a good throw on the move. He makes things happen outside the pocket with the ability to hit receivers on the money. Over his career, he made nice strides in all areas of play, especially decision making. He goes through his progressions well with the quick decision making to deliver the ball to the right receiver at the right time. He has the complete makeup of an NFL starting QB - athletic, sound arm with the ability to make quick smart decisions consistently.
The Numbers: Over his career, he threw for 8212 yards passing with 85 TD passes on 584 completions of 941 attempts. He had a huge senior year, which earned him the Walter Payton award. He threw for 3165 yards on 258 completions of 407 passes for 34 TDs, which earned him high season honors. As a junior, he threw for 2068 yards on 67% completion rate for 21 TDs and 6 picks. He helped his cause with a good week at the Paradise Bowl, displaying an accurate live arm and nice mobility in the pocket. His strong final season earned rave reviews from NFL scouts about his passing talents and intangibles as a leader.
The Skinny: This guy may be the gem of this deep QB class. He is an ideal fit for the West Coast offense that emphasizes accuracy, mobility and quick decision-making. He has the triangle numbers NFL scouts seek in a pro prospect and he has the makeup to become a starter with further development and continued improvement. He has the talent to surprise over time and may be the best small college passer since Kurt Warner.
He needs further coaching and playing experience especially working under center and making adjustments while setting up in the pocket. At the combine, he ran a 5.0 forty, had a 30" vertical jump and an 8'9" broad jump.
He is a talented prospect with the tools to start, but most likely a 2nd day selection in this deep QB class. He is a quality 3rd string NFL passer with excellent upside potential. This guy should emerge as an NFL starter in time with proper coaching and some patience. Excellent middle round prospect with the ability to shine in a West Coast offense.
on a rebuilding young team. Less disruptions the better. Rosen sitting behind ELI will be a huge disruption. He knows that. He told ELI he would be back and that wont work in this scenario. We will see.
Don't see why Rosen sitting behind Eli is any more of a disruption than Haskins or Jones or Lock.
RE: RE: Think DG wants a calm professional locker room
on a rebuilding young team. Less disruptions the better. Rosen sitting behind ELI will be a huge disruption. He knows that. He told ELI he would be back and that wont work in this scenario. We will see.
Don't see why Rosen sitting behind Eli is any more of a disruption than Haskins or Jones or Lock.
news flash... whoever it is, if they add Haskins, Jones, Lock or Rosen, Eli is not finishing the year as starting QB.
RE: RE: RE: Think DG wants a calm professional locker room
on a rebuilding young team. Less disruptions the better. Rosen sitting behind ELI will be a huge disruption. He knows that. He told ELI he would be back and that wont work in this scenario. We will see.
Don't see why Rosen sitting behind Eli is any more of a disruption than Haskins or Jones or Lock.
news flash... whoever it is, if they add Haskins, Jones, Lock or Rosen, Eli is not finishing the year as starting QB.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
no it doesn't tank rosen's value for the thousandth time.
JT has given us some great scoops. The reality of any situation in the draft, much less life, is value to benefit ratio. No different in this scenario. I think pick 37 is where the intersection of the 2 roads occurs, maybe even 17 if it's for JR and PP and we supplement with a later pick.
Same. It'd be pretty cool if they were able to get Rosen and still draft who they want with picks 6 and 17. And maybe even 37. Thats winning.
this is nonsense. they do not have to deal rosen before the pick to get value back.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
LOL the Cards absolutely want to move Rosen before the draft but only 2 teams are interested. Yes the trade price would plummet. That being said, If Rosen is someone that DG wants, he is playing this thing perfectly.
810pm: Cards select Kyler Murray
811pm: DG calls AZ Ill give you our third rounder and a 2nd rounder next year. And the negotiation begins.
I think DG will want to know if he can get Rosen at the price he wants before we go on the clock for 17.
This will be fun to watch. Regardless of what has been reported of Rosens personality. Hes the number 1 QB in this draft (so to speak). I dont think its debatable outside the playmaking ability of Murray. IMO
Let them go, they're on a roll...
Yes but Adam Schefter said the Giants have reached out more than any other team. At this point there has to be some smoke.
There are TWO threads on BBI right now based on the same source, but folks are acting like it is a second source. It's not.
+1000
Quote:
The cost for Rosen would plummet.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
LOL the Cards absolutely want to move Rosen before the draft but only 2 teams are interested. Yes the trade price would plummet. That being said, If Rosen is someone that DG wants, he is playing this thing perfectly.
810pm: Cards select Kyler Murray
811pm: DG calls AZ Ill give you our third rounder and a 2nd rounder next year. And the negotiation begins.
I think DG will want to know if he can get Rosen at the price he wants before we go on the clock for 17.
This will be fun to watch. Regardless of what has been reported of Rosens personality. Hes the number 1 QB in this draft (so to speak). I dont think its debatable outside the playmaking ability of Murray. IMO
you are totally wrong. here is a role play for you:
1) Cards: We select Kyler Murray.
2) Giants: Hello Cardinals. We were going to give you a 2nd round pick for Rosen but now that you have selected Kyler Murray we will, cleverly, only give you a 3rd rounder.
3) Cards: No.
See how easy that was?
There are TWO threads on BBI right now based on the same source, but folks are acting like it is a second source. It's not.
True, my comment was more so directed at people who think this has no chance of happening when its becoming clear the Giants have clear interest in him. But quoting you was unneeded.
But I don't think anything is "clear."
Arizona could be lying through their teeth to Schefter simply to create a market for Rosen that may not even be there.
Quote:
In comment 14404498 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
The cost for Rosen would plummet.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
LOL the Cards absolutely want to move Rosen before the draft but only 2 teams are interested. Yes the trade price would plummet. That being said, If Rosen is someone that DG wants, he is playing this thing perfectly.
810pm: Cards select Kyler Murray
811pm: DG calls AZ Ill give you our third rounder and a 2nd rounder next year. And the negotiation begins.
I think DG will want to know if he can get Rosen at the price he wants before we go on the clock for 17.
This will be fun to watch. Regardless of what has been reported of Rosens personality. Hes the number 1 QB in this draft (so to speak). I dont think its debatable outside the playmaking ability of Murray. IMO
you are totally wrong. here is a role play for you:
1) Cards: We select Kyler Murray.
2) Giants: Hello Cardinals. We were going to give you a 2nd round pick for Rosen but now that you have selected Kyler Murray we will, cleverly, only give you a 3rd rounder.
3) Cards: No.
See how easy that was?
Did you not read The negotiation begins. Reading helps ;-)
I'd go a step further. I'd prefer Rosen at #17 over Jones at #17.
Big Blue United
@BigBlueUnited
13m13 minutes ago
Sal Paolantonio made it very clear on ESPN moments ago that if Murray, Haskins, Lock & Jones are gone by #17 Overall, the Giants will look to either trade #37 to get back into the end of the 1st Round to select QB Will Grier, or trade for Josh Rosen.
The only situation where that makes sense is if the Giants have agreed to the framework of a Rosen deal pending on what happens at 17.
They've basically set the whole thing up like a Hedge Fund would. They get to use the #6 on a QB while hedging the risk of waiting until 17 by knowing they have Rosen in the bag, if necessary.
Quote:
Dont want to sound like a party pooper, but would much rather Rosen at 37 than Jones at 17. It allows NYG to either fill 2 defensive holes, maybe fill a defensive hole and OT hole, etc. will have a much better talent at 17 than 37. I also dont see Jones as an amazing QB in the future, he could be an Alex Smith type of game manager which is fine I wouldnt touch him at 6, but Rosen has more upside and if he was in this draft, I would take Rosen at 37 IF available.
I'd go a step further. I'd prefer Rosen at #17 over Jones at #17.
I would too. But the Cards will have zero negotiating power after they select Murray. If Im the Giants, I lowball the fuck out of them with the knowledge that they will most likely accept #37. But Im not offering that up first. No reason to.
Quote:
Lombardo is simply making an article out of the earlier Schefter news. This isn't "new" or a "confirmation".
Yes but Adam Schefter said the Giants have reached out more than any other team. At this point there has to be some smoke.
The lower the picks the more willing it seems they would be to gamble on his personality. Because if you get him for lets say a 3rd round pick if he 'acts up' cutting the cord or trading him is much easier than if you spent lets say #17 on him.
Also its a better sell for him to sit if you got him for a lower pick than a higher one. Giants want to continue to ride Eli.
you are totally wrong. here is a role play for you:
1) Cards: We select Kyler Murray.
2) Giants: Hello Cardinals. We were going to give you a 2nd round pick for Rosen but now that you have selected Kyler Murray we will, cleverly, only give you a 3rd rounder.
3) Cards: No.
See how easy that was?
OK - let's say the Cards say no in that scenario. Are they prepared to go into the season with both Rosen and Murray? If they aren't, then don't they need to move Rosen?
But if they are shut out on other targets and he can be had for 'cheap'....who knows?
He's a loose cannon.
Couldn't even shut up for 2 weeks (or whatever the time frame) for ARI to backtrack on them "not" taking Murray
Hoping GB/WAS swoops in for him.
Big Blue United
@BigBlueUnited
13m13 minutes ago
Sal Paolantonio made it very clear on ESPN moments ago that if Murray, Haskins, Lock & Jones are gone by #17 Overall, the Giants will look to either trade #37 to get back into the end of the 1st Round to select QB Will Grier, or trade for Josh Rosen.
^This. The Giants will take any of those QBs at #17 first, although I hate the idea of trading back into the first round for Grier. Just trade for Rosen.
He could still overplay it though. We'll see.
Quote:
you are totally wrong. here is a role play for you:
1) Cards: We select Kyler Murray.
2) Giants: Hello Cardinals. We were going to give you a 2nd round pick for Rosen but now that you have selected Kyler Murray we will, cleverly, only give you a 3rd rounder.
3) Cards: No.
See how easy that was?
OK - let's say the Cards say no in that scenario. Are they prepared to go into the season with both Rosen and Murray? If they aren't, then don't they need to move Rosen?
my guess is yes if they have to. but most likely they get a 2nd rounder tonight. or when someone gets hurt in pre-season.
Yeah, why would they want a bright, articulate guy to be the face of the franchise.
Tonight should be an interesting night. Let's Go!!!
This is very true - it would mean the Giants have determined they wouldn't mind any of Lock, Jones, Grier or Rosen. It could easily be the case. All 4 are very interesting projecting into Shurmur's O.
I think the majority of football fans would agree that the Giants getting, Barkley, Rosen and keeping both of our first round picks this year would be a major win (on paper) for the DG regime. Itd be a great move.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
Whoever wants Rosen is just refusing to make an offer before AZ takes a QB. Not Rocket Science.
LOL. Nice.
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The cost for Rosen would plummet.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
no it doesn't tank rosen's value for the thousandth time.
Not Rosen's value. It's the value of AZ's position that tanks.
True, but why trade back into the first round for him? Just to get the fifth year option? The cost is too high. I'm also not sure his personality fits with the Giants.
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In comment 14404498 RobCarpenter said:
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The cost for Rosen would plummet.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
no it doesn't tank rosen's value for the thousandth time.
Not Rosen's value. It's the value of AZ's position that tanks.
Exactly.
when its very possible A and B have nothing to do with C if the Giants don't like Rosen.
It makes so much damn sense on so many levels its mind boggling.
The only situation where that makes sense is if the Giants have agreed to the framework of a Rosen deal pending on what happens at 17.
They've basically set the whole thing up like a Hedge Fund would. They get to use the #6 on a QB while hedging the risk of waiting until 17 by knowing they have Rosen in the bag, if necessary.
The reason it makes sense is they dont HAVE to select a QB this year. They can take a game changer on defense and select a QB later on. If this were the Jets last year, it would be a different story.
I agree 100% with this. They can't be so happy with this class that they just want to get any one of them as if they're interchangeable.
They go D at 6, then wait to see if Jones slips to 17.
If Jones is off the board at 17, as jtgiants has mentioned - they look to trade down from 17 to pick up an extra pick between 37 and 95 and squarely into the flat area of red chips.
With the trade down pick in the 20's/early 30's, the Giants select Grier or use that pick to trade for Rosen. Can't wait to see how it plays out.
They are only losing year 2 of his contract not the first 2 years. And I do not agree that they would have to cut Eli if they acquire Rosen.
He sits unless Eli is playing awful and the season is over by week 8. Even if he sits the entire season, I would think the Giants move on from Eli after this year. So they would have two full seasons (barring missed games) to evaluate Rosen for his second deal.
Big Blue United
@BigBlueUnited
13m13 minutes ago
Sal Paolantonio made it very clear on ESPN moments ago that if Murray, Haskins, Lock & Jones are gone by #17 Overall, the Giants will look to either trade #37 to get back into the end of the 1st Round to select QB Will Grier, or trade for Josh Rosen.
That would probably enrage me more than anything if the Giants used an asset that could be used to acquire Rosen on Will Grier who is already 24.
They go D at 6, then wait to see if Jones slips to 17.
If Jones is off the board at 17, as jtgiants has mentioned - they look to trade down from 17 to pick up an extra pick between 37 and 95 and squarely into the flat area of red chips.
With the trade down pick in the 20's/early 30's, the Giants select Grier or use that pick to trade for Rosen. Can't wait to see how it plays out.
I think that's the plan, except that they will wait to see if Jones or Lock slips to 17. If not, trade down to get a player and an extra day two pick. I'd just rather trade for Rosen than draft Grier.
I agree. I'm all over the place on who they should take. I've even said if the top 4 are gone by 17 maybe they should just take Rosen but I don't dislike Grier as much as others on here. I see some Mayfield in him and I agree on the Romo comparison. Trade back and get an extra pick and get Grier.
The only thing for certain tonight is that events will NOT unfold as predicted or as Giants might wish in the best of all possible worlds.
according to JT it is a factor. They promised Eli the job and dont want a QB controversy.
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for #37 is the only sensible option.
It makes so much damn sense on so many levels its mind boggling.
Speaking of Romo, not sure how the guy went undrafted. Really his only knock was playing for a small school:
From an old Draft Insiders profile for 2003:
The small college group of QBs may be the strongest in memory, but has received little fanfare yet has the upside potential to make this a bonanza for the 32 clubs hunting for young QB talent. With the current high demand for NFL caliber passers, one can expect several late picks at this position as clubs search for developmental passers that they can refine further on practice squads and in NFL Europe.
Tony Romo #17 - 6'2" 220 lbs. - Eastern Illinois - Sp. 4.9 Rating 78
Smooth strong small college passer completed an excellent senior season at the Division 1 AA level that earned him the Walter Payton Award, symbolic of the level's best player. Tony completed a record setting career that included three consecutive Ohio Valley Conference Player of the Year awards in addition to numerous first team All-American teams. He is a fine athlete with a live arm and the ability to make all the throws. He has shown excellent accuracy, touch and timing as a passer with the ability to hit receivers in stride on a consistent basis. He has operated mainly from the shotgun and has decent setup technique when starting from under center.
He has a very quick release with a smooth compact delivery that wastes little motion that allows him to get the ball off nicely when under pressure.
He has a good arm with the ability to throw the short and intermediate passes exceptionally well. He needs some work on the deep ball with improved arm strength and better foot positioning necessary to increase his completion %. He has a good feel for pressure in the pocket with the mobility to avoid tacklers and make a good throw on the move. He makes things happen outside the pocket with the ability to hit receivers on the money. Over his career, he made nice strides in all areas of play, especially decision making. He goes through his progressions well with the quick decision making to deliver the ball to the right receiver at the right time. He has the complete makeup of an NFL starting QB - athletic, sound arm with the ability to make quick smart decisions consistently.
The Numbers: Over his career, he threw for 8212 yards passing with 85 TD passes on 584 completions of 941 attempts. He had a huge senior year, which earned him the Walter Payton award. He threw for 3165 yards on 258 completions of 407 passes for 34 TDs, which earned him high season honors. As a junior, he threw for 2068 yards on 67% completion rate for 21 TDs and 6 picks. He helped his cause with a good week at the Paradise Bowl, displaying an accurate live arm and nice mobility in the pocket. His strong final season earned rave reviews from NFL scouts about his passing talents and intangibles as a leader.
The Skinny: This guy may be the gem of this deep QB class. He is an ideal fit for the West Coast offense that emphasizes accuracy, mobility and quick decision-making. He has the triangle numbers NFL scouts seek in a pro prospect and he has the makeup to become a starter with further development and continued improvement. He has the talent to surprise over time and may be the best small college passer since Kurt Warner.
He needs further coaching and playing experience especially working under center and making adjustments while setting up in the pocket. At the combine, he ran a 5.0 forty, had a 30" vertical jump and an 8'9" broad jump.
He is a talented prospect with the tools to start, but most likely a 2nd day selection in this deep QB class. He is a quality 3rd string NFL passer with excellent upside potential. This guy should emerge as an NFL starter in time with proper coaching and some patience. Excellent middle round prospect with the ability to shine in a West Coast offense.
Draft Projection: 5th-6th Round
Why?
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as the frontman of the Giants franchise.
Why?
because people get hung up on nonsense..
Don't see why Rosen sitting behind Eli is any more of a disruption than Haskins or Jones or Lock.
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on a rebuilding young team. Less disruptions the better. Rosen sitting behind ELI will be a huge disruption. He knows that. He told ELI he would be back and that wont work in this scenario. We will see.
Don't see why Rosen sitting behind Eli is any more of a disruption than Haskins or Jones or Lock.
news flash... whoever it is, if they add Haskins, Jones, Lock or Rosen, Eli is not finishing the year as starting QB.
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In comment 14404694 TMS said:
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on a rebuilding young team. Less disruptions the better. Rosen sitting behind ELI will be a huge disruption. He knows that. He told ELI he would be back and that wont work in this scenario. We will see.
Don't see why Rosen sitting behind Eli is any more of a disruption than Haskins or Jones or Lock.
news flash... whoever it is, if they add Haskins, Jones, Lock or Rosen, Eli is not finishing the year as starting QB.
Don't forget the "KC Model" as it were.