I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
no it doesn't tank rosen's value for the thousandth time.
made the remark on the backend of a comment, to the effect of things could change or it being fluid.
JT has given us some great scoops. The reality of any situation in the draft, much less life, is value to benefit ratio. No different in this scenario. I think pick 37 is where the intersection of the 2 roads occurs, maybe even 17 if it's for JR and PP and we supplement with a later pick.
Dont want to sound like a party pooper, but would much rather Rosen at 37 than Jones at 17. It allows NYG to either fill 2 defensive holes, maybe fill a defensive hole and OT hole, etc. will have a much better talent at 17 than 37. I also dont see Jones as an amazing QB in the future, he could be an Alex Smith type of game manager which is fine I wouldnt touch him at 6, but Rosen has more upside and if he was in this draft, I would take Rosen at 37 IF available.
with the argument that you'd have to cut Eli if you take Rosen...if not, you're wasting the first two years of his rookie deal and you'll have a much shorter window of playing time in which to evaluate him for his 2nd contract which isn't ideal for a QB.
before they draft Murray or they'll have no leverage. Trading Rosen might come as late as while they're on the clock, but it won't come after their pick.
before they draft Murray or they'll have no leverage. Trading Rosen might come as late as while they're on the clock, but it won't come after their pick.
this is nonsense. they do not have to deal rosen before the pick to get value back.
I'm by no means a QB scholar and do truly appreciate all the info I've gained just reading here on Big Blue. As far as who is the best QB coming out this year, my take is pretty much that I trust the guys picking and will support whomever it is, although I am in the "Eli still has a little time left" camp. My only real thought is about Rosen and I just have never been comfortable with a California kid, who played college in California, coming into the Meadowlands. The closest he has ever been to bad weather, according to an interview I read, was spending Christmas in Philly with relatives. Does that bother anyone else, or is it just me?
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
LOL the Cards absolutely want to move Rosen before the draft but only 2 teams are interested. Yes the trade price would plummet. That being said, If Rosen is someone that DG wants, he is playing this thing perfectly.
810pm: Cards select Kyler Murray
811pm: DG calls AZ Ill give you our third rounder and a 2nd rounder next year. And the negotiation begins.
I think DG will want to know if he can get Rosen at the price he wants before we go on the clock for 17.
This will be fun to watch. Regardless of what has been reported of Rosens personality. Hes the number 1 QB in this draft (so to speak). I dont think its debatable outside the playmaking ability of Murray. IMO
The Pats have a sh*tload of picks too. I could see BelliCheat making a better offer to Land Rosen. Maybe give his 32 pick and another to out beat our 37 pick nd another...We have the capital. I believe in Dan S. scouting which says Rosen is better then all in this years class. Only thing is you get to his 2nd contract $$$ 1-2 years sooner then say a Lock, Jones, Haskins.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
LOL the Cards absolutely want to move Rosen before the draft but only 2 teams are interested. Yes the trade price would plummet. That being said, If Rosen is someone that DG wants, he is playing this thing perfectly.
810pm: Cards select Kyler Murray
811pm: DG calls AZ Ill give you our third rounder and a 2nd rounder next year. And the negotiation begins.
I think DG will want to know if he can get Rosen at the price he wants before we go on the clock for 17.
This will be fun to watch. Regardless of what has been reported of Rosens personality. Hes the number 1 QB in this draft (so to speak). I dont think its debatable outside the playmaking ability of Murray. IMO
you are totally wrong. here is a role play for you:
1) Cards: We select Kyler Murray.
2) Giants: Hello Cardinals. We were going to give you a 2nd round pick for Rosen but now that you have selected Kyler Murray we will, cleverly, only give you a 3rd rounder.
3) Cards: No.
There are TWO threads on BBI right now based on the same source, but folks are acting like it is a second source. It's not.
True, my comment was more so directed at people who think this has no chance of happening when its becoming clear the Giants have clear interest in him. But quoting you was unneeded.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
LOL the Cards absolutely want to move Rosen before the draft but only 2 teams are interested. Yes the trade price would plummet. That being said, If Rosen is someone that DG wants, he is playing this thing perfectly.
810pm: Cards select Kyler Murray
811pm: DG calls AZ Ill give you our third rounder and a 2nd rounder next year. And the negotiation begins.
I think DG will want to know if he can get Rosen at the price he wants before we go on the clock for 17.
This will be fun to watch. Regardless of what has been reported of Rosens personality. Hes the number 1 QB in this draft (so to speak). I dont think its debatable outside the playmaking ability of Murray. IMO
you are totally wrong. here is a role play for you:
1) Cards: We select Kyler Murray.
2) Giants: Hello Cardinals. We were going to give you a 2nd round pick for Rosen but now that you have selected Kyler Murray we will, cleverly, only give you a 3rd rounder.
3) Cards: No.
See how easy that was?
Did you not read The negotiation begins. Reading helps ;-)
Dont want to sound like a party pooper, but would much rather Rosen at 37 than Jones at 17. It allows NYG to either fill 2 defensive holes, maybe fill a defensive hole and OT hole, etc. will have a much better talent at 17 than 37. I also dont see Jones as an amazing QB in the future, he could be an Alex Smith type of game manager which is fine I wouldnt touch him at 6, but Rosen has more upside and if he was in this draft, I would take Rosen at 37 IF available.
I'd go a step further. I'd prefer Rosen at #17 over Jones at #17.
Big Blue United
@BigBlueUnited
13m13 minutes ago
Sal Paolantonio made it very clear on ESPN moments ago that if Murray, Haskins, Lock & Jones are gone by #17 Overall, the Giants will look to either trade #37 to get back into the end of the 1st Round to select QB Will Grier, or trade for Josh Rosen.
of waiting until pick 17 to take a QB if he's there.
The only situation where that makes sense is if the Giants have agreed to the framework of a Rosen deal pending on what happens at 17.
They've basically set the whole thing up like a Hedge Fund would. They get to use the #6 on a QB while hedging the risk of waiting until 17 by knowing they have Rosen in the bag, if necessary.
Dont want to sound like a party pooper, but would much rather Rosen at 37 than Jones at 17. It allows NYG to either fill 2 defensive holes, maybe fill a defensive hole and OT hole, etc. will have a much better talent at 17 than 37. I also dont see Jones as an amazing QB in the future, he could be an Alex Smith type of game manager which is fine I wouldnt touch him at 6, but Rosen has more upside and if he was in this draft, I would take Rosen at 37 IF available.
I'd go a step further. I'd prefer Rosen at #17 over Jones at #17.
I would too. But the Cards will have zero negotiating power after they select Murray. If Im the Giants, I lowball the fuck out of them with the knowledge that they will most likely accept #37. But Im not offering that up first. No reason to.
Lombardo is simply making an article out of the earlier Schefter news. This isn't "new" or a "confirmation".
Yes but Adam Schefter said the Giants have reached out more than any other team. At this point there has to be some smoke.
The lower the picks the more willing it seems they would be to gamble on his personality. Because if you get him for lets say a 3rd round pick if he 'acts up' cutting the cord or trading him is much easier than if you spent lets say #17 on him.
Also its a better sell for him to sit if you got him for a lower pick than a higher one. Giants want to continue to ride Eli.
you are totally wrong. here is a role play for you:
1) Cards: We select Kyler Murray.
2) Giants: Hello Cardinals. We were going to give you a 2nd round pick for Rosen but now that you have selected Kyler Murray we will, cleverly, only give you a 3rd rounder.
3) Cards: No.
See how easy that was?
OK - let's say the Cards say no in that scenario. Are they prepared to go into the season with both Rosen and Murray? If they aren't, then don't they need to move Rosen?
Big Blue United
@BigBlueUnited
13m13 minutes ago
Sal Paolantonio made it very clear on ESPN moments ago that if Murray, Haskins, Lock & Jones are gone by #17 Overall, the Giants will look to either trade #37 to get back into the end of the 1st Round to select QB Will Grier, or trade for Josh Rosen.
^This. The Giants will take any of those QBs at #17 first, although I hate the idea of trading back into the first round for Grier. Just trade for Rosen.
Many believe Rosen would be best QB in this years class. Looks like Murray will go 1, Haskins top 10 and maybe others in 1st Rd. Other teams will be making offers. Rosens value may be top 10 even with loss of one year of rookie contract. Getting him with 17 still a bargain. Maybe flip 3rds from the last Gs hold and first Zona has.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
no it doesn't tank rosen's value for the thousandth time.
JT has given us some great scoops. The reality of any situation in the draft, much less life, is value to benefit ratio. No different in this scenario. I think pick 37 is where the intersection of the 2 roads occurs, maybe even 17 if it's for JR and PP and we supplement with a later pick.
Same. It'd be pretty cool if they were able to get Rosen and still draft who they want with picks 6 and 17. And maybe even 37. Thats winning.
this is nonsense. they do not have to deal rosen before the pick to get value back.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
LOL the Cards absolutely want to move Rosen before the draft but only 2 teams are interested. Yes the trade price would plummet. That being said, If Rosen is someone that DG wants, he is playing this thing perfectly.
810pm: Cards select Kyler Murray
811pm: DG calls AZ Ill give you our third rounder and a 2nd rounder next year. And the negotiation begins.
I think DG will want to know if he can get Rosen at the price he wants before we go on the clock for 17.
This will be fun to watch. Regardless of what has been reported of Rosens personality. Hes the number 1 QB in this draft (so to speak). I dont think its debatable outside the playmaking ability of Murray. IMO
Let them go, they're on a roll...
Yes but Adam Schefter said the Giants have reached out more than any other team. At this point there has to be some smoke.
There are TWO threads on BBI right now based on the same source, but folks are acting like it is a second source. It's not.
+1000
Quote:
The cost for Rosen would plummet.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
LOL the Cards absolutely want to move Rosen before the draft but only 2 teams are interested. Yes the trade price would plummet. That being said, If Rosen is someone that DG wants, he is playing this thing perfectly.
810pm: Cards select Kyler Murray
811pm: DG calls AZ Ill give you our third rounder and a 2nd rounder next year. And the negotiation begins.
I think DG will want to know if he can get Rosen at the price he wants before we go on the clock for 17.
This will be fun to watch. Regardless of what has been reported of Rosens personality. Hes the number 1 QB in this draft (so to speak). I dont think its debatable outside the playmaking ability of Murray. IMO
you are totally wrong. here is a role play for you:
1) Cards: We select Kyler Murray.
2) Giants: Hello Cardinals. We were going to give you a 2nd round pick for Rosen but now that you have selected Kyler Murray we will, cleverly, only give you a 3rd rounder.
3) Cards: No.
See how easy that was?
There are TWO threads on BBI right now based on the same source, but folks are acting like it is a second source. It's not.
True, my comment was more so directed at people who think this has no chance of happening when its becoming clear the Giants have clear interest in him. But quoting you was unneeded.
But I don't think anything is "clear."
Arizona could be lying through their teeth to Schefter simply to create a market for Rosen that may not even be there.
Quote:
In comment 14404498 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
The cost for Rosen would plummet.
I don't understand how or why they'd go into the draft with the intention of taking Murray without trading Rosen before the draft. Once they've taken Murray, then everyone knows they are looking to move Rosen.
LOL the Cards absolutely want to move Rosen before the draft but only 2 teams are interested. Yes the trade price would plummet. That being said, If Rosen is someone that DG wants, he is playing this thing perfectly.
810pm: Cards select Kyler Murray
811pm: DG calls AZ Ill give you our third rounder and a 2nd rounder next year. And the negotiation begins.
I think DG will want to know if he can get Rosen at the price he wants before we go on the clock for 17.
This will be fun to watch. Regardless of what has been reported of Rosens personality. Hes the number 1 QB in this draft (so to speak). I dont think its debatable outside the playmaking ability of Murray. IMO
you are totally wrong. here is a role play for you:
1) Cards: We select Kyler Murray.
2) Giants: Hello Cardinals. We were going to give you a 2nd round pick for Rosen but now that you have selected Kyler Murray we will, cleverly, only give you a 3rd rounder.
3) Cards: No.
See how easy that was?
Did you not read The negotiation begins. Reading helps ;-)
I'd go a step further. I'd prefer Rosen at #17 over Jones at #17.
Big Blue United
@BigBlueUnited
13m13 minutes ago
Sal Paolantonio made it very clear on ESPN moments ago that if Murray, Haskins, Lock & Jones are gone by #17 Overall, the Giants will look to either trade #37 to get back into the end of the 1st Round to select QB Will Grier, or trade for Josh Rosen.
The only situation where that makes sense is if the Giants have agreed to the framework of a Rosen deal pending on what happens at 17.
They've basically set the whole thing up like a Hedge Fund would. They get to use the #6 on a QB while hedging the risk of waiting until 17 by knowing they have Rosen in the bag, if necessary.
Quote:
Dont want to sound like a party pooper, but would much rather Rosen at 37 than Jones at 17. It allows NYG to either fill 2 defensive holes, maybe fill a defensive hole and OT hole, etc. will have a much better talent at 17 than 37. I also dont see Jones as an amazing QB in the future, he could be an Alex Smith type of game manager which is fine I wouldnt touch him at 6, but Rosen has more upside and if he was in this draft, I would take Rosen at 37 IF available.
I'd go a step further. I'd prefer Rosen at #17 over Jones at #17.
I would too. But the Cards will have zero negotiating power after they select Murray. If Im the Giants, I lowball the fuck out of them with the knowledge that they will most likely accept #37. But Im not offering that up first. No reason to.
Quote:
Lombardo is simply making an article out of the earlier Schefter news. This isn't "new" or a "confirmation".
Yes but Adam Schefter said the Giants have reached out more than any other team. At this point there has to be some smoke.
The lower the picks the more willing it seems they would be to gamble on his personality. Because if you get him for lets say a 3rd round pick if he 'acts up' cutting the cord or trading him is much easier than if you spent lets say #17 on him.
Also its a better sell for him to sit if you got him for a lower pick than a higher one. Giants want to continue to ride Eli.
you are totally wrong. here is a role play for you:
1) Cards: We select Kyler Murray.
2) Giants: Hello Cardinals. We were going to give you a 2nd round pick for Rosen but now that you have selected Kyler Murray we will, cleverly, only give you a 3rd rounder.
3) Cards: No.
See how easy that was?
OK - let's say the Cards say no in that scenario. Are they prepared to go into the season with both Rosen and Murray? If they aren't, then don't they need to move Rosen?
But if they are shut out on other targets and he can be had for 'cheap'....who knows?
He's a loose cannon.
Couldn't even shut up for 2 weeks (or whatever the time frame) for ARI to backtrack on them "not" taking Murray
Hoping GB/WAS swoops in for him.
Big Blue United
@BigBlueUnited
13m13 minutes ago
Sal Paolantonio made it very clear on ESPN moments ago that if Murray, Haskins, Lock & Jones are gone by #17 Overall, the Giants will look to either trade #37 to get back into the end of the 1st Round to select QB Will Grier, or trade for Josh Rosen.
^This. The Giants will take any of those QBs at #17 first, although I hate the idea of trading back into the first round for Grier. Just trade for Rosen.
He could still overplay it though. We'll see.