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Rosen: What the hell has changed in one year?

Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/25/2019 1:08 pm
I will preface my remarks by saying I simply didn't watch Rosen play for the Cardinals last season.

But I find it absolutely stunning that someone who was considered one of the top prospects one year ago has fallen so far.

If reports are to be believed, the Cardinals may be having issues finding ANY team willing to give up a #1 pick for him.

A lot of fans say he looked bad last year because the Cards were so bad. I get that. But don't NFL teams understand that too?

What is going on here? There must be more to the story.
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I'd look at it this way  
David B. : 4/25/2019 2:03 pm : link
The Giants did extensive homework on Rosen last year.
The owners had their dinners with him, etc.
They may well have liked him as a QB, but Barkley had the perfect grade.
He's already had his rookie growing pains behind a crap OL.
On the Giants, he'd sit a year and learn more behind Eli.
By the time he takes over, he should be significantly better than a rookie.
He's on a rookie contract, so he's still inexpensive.

There's a lot to like from that perspective.

If there's some horror show behind the scenes, wouldn't it have come out?

The concussion thing has been WAY overblown IMO. He got hit plenty last year.
I mentioned this in another thread about Sy's rankings  
KerrysFlask : 4/25/2019 2:04 pm : link
Rosen would be the #1 ranked player in this years draft. Higher than Q. Williams, Bosa, Allen, etc.

Yet everyone is jumping to spend the #6 pick on any of them. But you wouldn't spend a #37 on Rosen?

Talk about BPA....
RE: bw in dc  
Beezer : 4/25/2019 2:04 pm : link
In comment 14404813 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I know... but teams don't seem to agree.


That's just it.

We really don't know what teams are thinking. This year as much or more than any in memory.

I think teams ARE interested in him, and I think the Giants are one of them. I think Gettleman wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't have at least as ONE of his possible scenarios, a run at Rosen if/when the time came. Things just have to fall a certain way. So many moving parts this year. Kinda crazy, really.

Fun!
.  
arcarsenal : 4/25/2019 2:05 pm : link
Isn't it possible that Kingsbury views Murray as a better fit for his offense?

New coaches often want "their guy"... Rosen isn't that for Kingsbury. He's a guy from a regime that lasted one year and got fired.

They're in a position where they can get Kingsbury the QB he's long-coveted, recoup as much value as possible for Rosen and move on.

I don't think that's far-fetched.

How many teams are legitimately interested in Rosen right now? 3 or 4? Maybe they're just content with the alternative QB options available to them if Arizona won't bite on their offer for Rosen.

Have to remember that the team making the offer is getting a QB who already has 1 year of his rookie contract burned - and that's half the appeal. The contract. He's also, like I said before, taken a bit of a beating.

So, you'd be paying sticker price on a car that has been taken off the lot for a few test drives already...

I wouldn't want to do that. Would you?
What do the QB EXPERTS NOW SAY ABOUT ROSEN?  
5BowlsSoon : 4/25/2019 2:05 pm : link
The guys who know everything there is to know about qbs and what it takes to be a top NFL QB.......what do they say?

No disrespect intended for guys here sharing their opinions or wants, but all I care about is reading the words of the EXPERTS. if they say he can be a stud, Iím all in. If they say there are too many question marks, Iím all out.

Lastly, how does he compare with the top 5 QBs coming out this year? That is equally as important. What do the EXPERTS say about that?
RE: I'd look at it this way  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/25/2019 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14404891 David B. said:
Quote:
The Giants did extensive homework on Rosen last year.
The owners had their dinners with him, etc.
They may well have liked him as a QB, but Barkley had the perfect grade.
He's already had his rookie growing pains behind a crap OL.
On the Giants, he'd sit a year and learn more behind Eli.
By the time he takes over, he should be significantly better than a rookie.
He's on a rookie contract, so he's still inexpensive.

There's a lot to like from that perspective.

If there's some horror show behind the scenes, wouldn't it have come out?

The concussion thing has been WAY overblown IMO. He got hit plenty last year.


And yet have the Giants even offered their #17 pick for him? If they haven't, what does that say?
ĎWhat has changed in one year?í...  
Torrag : 4/25/2019 2:05 pm : link
Maybe nothing. They loved Barkley and they were right. They could have had a high grade on Rosen as well. Now he may be available. Itís that simple.
It's not "simple."  
Beezer : 4/25/2019 2:09 pm : link
But I think it can be as relatively simple as this: There have been conversations, feeling-out chats, to see where the Cards are. Of course they want to get the most they can. That's why they haven't come out and said the #1 pick is the QB yet. Once they do, Rosen's value drops.

Sure, it drops the second they make that pick, BUT ... there might be something to the "in the moment" emotional perception of making that trade during the draft that makes the Arizona front office want to hold off on surprising no one with the Murray pick.

Hope that makes sense. At least as I intend it.
RE: RE: I'd look at it this way  
Capt. Don : 4/25/2019 2:10 pm : link
In comment 14404907 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:


And yet have the Giants even offered their #17 pick for him? If they haven't, what does that say?


That they are waiting until they have selected Murray. It may also mean they just dont see him here.

I want Rosen here and have since the speculation began but I will admit that he doesnt seem like a DG type of QB. I trust JonC and jtgiants info.
Eric, all it says to me is that  
Beezer : 4/25/2019 2:13 pm : link
thew Giants are playing it close to the vest and want to get him for as little as possible. If no one has bitten by the time the Giants pick at 17, I think that might signal the Giants FO that he MAY still be there when they pick at 37. It's a shot ... but by then? Could the Cards FO be thinking, well hell, we'd better pull the trigger here or we may be screwed?"
Eric  
Giants38 : 4/25/2019 2:13 pm : link
JT believes they donít think his personality is a fit for NYC market and the fact that his dad is a doctor will push him to early retirement.
jtgiants told you Eric  
BigBlueCane : 4/25/2019 2:14 pm : link
Rosen and his family concern teams regardless of physical talent, teams need to believe that a player who maybe the face of their franchise is all in on winning no matter the cost.
Only thing that makes any sense at all  
Shecky : 4/25/2019 2:16 pm : link
If there truly is no interest in Rosen, itís because donít think they are really drafting Murray. Nothing else makes any sense.
RE: Motley Two  
ron mexico : 4/25/2019 2:18 pm : link
In comment 14404888 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Favre was a second round draft pick.


and his rookie year was a booze filled shit show in which he only threw 4 passes

RE: Eric  
jeff57 : 4/25/2019 2:18 pm : link
In comment 14404948 Giants38 said:
Quote:
JT believes they donít think his personality is a fit for NYC market and the fact that his dad is a doctor will push him to early retirement.


I can't think of a QB whose personality is a better fit for the NY market. The medical concerns in the family is something else. But that seems purely speculative
RE: RE: Bunch of cement heads in the AZ front office.....  
Thegratefulhead : 4/25/2019 2:20 pm : link
In comment 14404785 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14404778 MOOPS said:


Quote:


got outsmarted, called out and now are being punished and made fools of.



That doesn't make sense to me either. Teams don't seem to want him.
Seem is the key word. You were going to have BLOW the Cards away before they draft. What happens to the Cards if they trade Rosen and Murray becomes Tunsil hours before the draft? After the Cards draft Murray teams will have more leverage. They are waiting on the Cards to draft Murray for leverage. That is all that is happening.
Last year teams were drafting on the hope and potential  
steve in ky : 4/25/2019 2:21 pm : link
of what he could do at the NFL level. This year he is viewed with the reality of one year of having done that. Then also factor in one year of his rookie contract gone makes him slightly less of a bargain than drafting a rookie would be.
Heís an asshole...  
Damon : 4/25/2019 2:22 pm : link
Itís not a secret.
RE: RE: Motley Two  
Motley Two : 4/25/2019 2:27 pm : link
In comment 14404970 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14404888 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Favre was a second round draft pick.



and his rookie year was a booze filled shit show in which he only threw 4 passes



And Green Bay gave Atlanta the #19 pick for him a year later.
The draft can't come soon enough.  
madgiantscow009 : 4/25/2019 2:30 pm : link
If i didn't have a vet appointment I would take some nyquil and set my alarm for 5.
He had a lot of stuff going against him last year  
KingofSivar : 4/25/2019 2:32 pm : link
Bad O-line (we all can relate)
Terrible coaching. Their play calling was horrible.
He didn't always scan the field and he has a tendency to be REALLY late getting the ball out. I think that's the biggest issue. His process is slow and I think that gets solved by backing up a veteran for a season or two. He has all the tools besides that.

I like him over most of the QBs in this draft who are mostly projects that aren't Day 1 starters. IMO
RE: He had a lot of stuff going against him last year  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/25/2019 2:34 pm : link
In comment 14405026 KingofSivar said:
Quote:
Bad O-line (we all can relate)
Terrible coaching. Their play calling was horrible.
He didn't always scan the field and he has a tendency to be REALLY late getting the ball out. I think that's the biggest issue. His process is slow and I think that gets solved by backing up a veteran for a season or two. He has all the tools besides that.

I like him over most of the QBs in this draft who are mostly projects that aren't Day 1 starters. IMO


NFL teams know all of that.
Rosen bandwaggon  
Thegratefulhead : 4/25/2019 2:35 pm : link
There is room jump on board. Sy and Cosell are very high on him. I trust them. We can get the best QB to come out of college in 2 years for a second round pick. We can use our premium picks to build the defense. This would be so good for the franchise it is crazy. Do not let political bullshit affect your fandom. You need joy in your life, leave that shit elsewhere. Watch his highlights. He was running for his life while making beautiful throws.

Maturity? He has handled the Cardinal's flirtation with Murray with absolute class. How do you think Mayfield or Darnold would be handling this shit? Not any better, that is for sure. Durability, he got killed and kept trucking. Next year our high draft capital will build the team. It is a huge advantage if we can get this guy on the cheap. He will better than Jones. Bank on that.
One thing I believe wholeheartedly  
NBGblue : 4/25/2019 2:35 pm : link
Chris684 : 1:34 pm
the NFL doesnt love Josh Rosen as much as BBI does.

^^^^^^^^^
This.

Fans say that NYG didn't "pass" on Rosen because the Giants liked Barkley so much better. OK, maybe. But NYJ passed on him for Darnold and Buffalo passed on him for Allen, and if Ariz (who now wants to unload him after 1 yr) hadn't taken him at #10, he would have slid all the way to Balt at the end of the 1st round and maybe even out of it.
RE: ...  
One Man Thrill Ride : 4/25/2019 2:41 pm : link
In comment 14404868 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I thank you guys for the responses.

But I'm not reading anything persuasive here.

I've never seen a team give up on a top talent in less than a year, and I don't understand why some other team hasn't already traded for him.

I find the whole thing bizarre.


1. Murray is a superior prospect to Rosen and a potentially transformative player. Does not need to be more persuasive than that.

2a. Theyíll find a buyer when the dust settles ó many teams in the QB market might prefer to pursue the rookies before returning to Rosen

2b. As a top-10 pick, Rosenís 5th year option would be ~$20M whereas a QB picked outside the top-10 would cost ~$13-14M

3. Thereís obvious encouragement from the NFL to create theater with the 1st pick, hence the recent (false) reports that the Cards would keep Rosen
RE: .  
bw in dc : 4/25/2019 2:41 pm : link
In comment 14404904 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Isn't it possible that Kingsbury views Murray as a better fit for his offense?



This is clearly the answer.

But I have a hunch the slow down here for any deal is, ironically, Kingsbury. From what I've seen and heard, Rosen has come to these voluntary activities in great shape; and he is moving and throwing better than ever. So I think Kingsbury is really torn...

He may have the QB he needs already on the roster after all. So perhaps they need to start building the team around Rosen...

RE: And yet  
David B. : 4/25/2019 2:46 pm : link
Quote:
And yet have the Giants even offered their #17 pick for him? If they haven't, what does that say?


Who knows if they have or haven't?
Maybe they HAVE and AZ hasn't bit yet?

If any of this Rosen stuff has legs, DG likes Rosen at a certain price, and AZ is trying to get the most they can. They wouldn't be finalizing it until the draft begins. Perhaps DG would come up to 17 but didn't start there. Or perhaps DG gave AZ a standing offer for Rosen, and AZ is waiting to see if anyone beats it. WHO KNOWS?

We didn't get details of Accorsi's side of the Eli trade until a few years later.


I am not going through 3 pages of responses to see  
BlueLou'sBack : 4/25/2019 2:51 pm : link
if this was covered already. I watched a lot of Rosen's last 2 years in college, and at the end had him ranked neck and neck with Darnold, just below Saquon (who was clearly a gold jacket guy indeed.)

Living in the LA area, I read tons of stuff about him, including many inquiries into the national media's slam of his personality and the local LA refutation of those digs.

The one issue that seemed to have some real traction was how coachable he is/was, not because he's stupid or uncaring, but because he's "the smartest guy in the room". Heck under the coaches he had at UCLA, that might have been true both ways.

And it might have again been true last year in Arizona. I mean, clearly the FO didn't think much of their own coaching staff last year - they fired them after ONE SEASON!

But the attitude of a player thinking he's the smartest guy in the room doesn't sail in the NFL, unless you've got serious skins on the wall, like Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers.

Could that be it? It sure isn't the dude's ability to toss the rock.

RE: Only thing that makes any sense at all  
FranchiseQB : 4/25/2019 2:52 pm : link
In comment 14404968 Shecky said:
Quote:
If there truly is no interest in Rosen, itís because donít think they are really drafting Murray. Nothing else makes any sense.

Eric's question is a good one and this is the most sensible answer.
you lose a year of control  
Amtoft : 4/25/2019 3:00 pm : link
So now if the Giants trade for him and he sits a year we have only 3 years of control before his contract goes way up. Plus it is supply and demand. If they have two then they have to take less. I would trade my second #37... I liked Rosen as the top QB last year. His OL was horrible and he stood tall. Also look at how well he is handling all this Murray talk. I have a lot of respect for him. Going to work and putting in work.
RE: I am not going through 3 pages of responses to see  
bw in dc : 4/25/2019 3:00 pm : link
In comment 14405103 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
if this was covered already. I watched a lot of Rosen's last 2 years in college, and at the end had him ranked neck and neck with Darnold, just below Saquon (who was clearly a gold jacket guy indeed.)

Living in the LA area, I read tons of stuff about him, including many inquiries into the national media's slam of his personality and the local LA refutation of those digs.

The one issue that seemed to have some real traction was how coachable he is/was, not because he's stupid or uncaring, but because he's "the smartest guy in the room". Heck under the coaches he had at UCLA, that might have been true both ways.

And it might have again been true last year in Arizona. I mean, clearly the FO didn't think much of their own coaching staff last year - they fired them after ONE SEASON!

But the attitude of a player thinking he's the smartest guy in the room doesn't sail in the NFL, unless you've got serious skins on the wall, like Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers.

Could that be it? It sure isn't the dude's ability to toss the rock.


Good post. Totally agree.
Eric  
ryanmkeane : 4/25/2019 3:09 pm : link
if you looked at Jared Goff his first year, you would have thought he sucked. Rosen was in an even worse situation than that, and he looked decently OK as a rookie. Rookie QBs don't really perform that well most of the time.
RE: Eric  
bw in dc : 4/25/2019 3:11 pm : link
In comment 14405175 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
if you looked at Jared Goff his first year, you would have thought he sucked. Rosen was in an even worse situation than that, and he looked decently OK as a rookie. Rookie QBs don't really perform that well most of the time.


And Rosen knows the sun rises in the east and sets in the west... ;)
new coach wants "his"  
madgiantscow009 : 4/25/2019 3:12 pm : link
guy.
He's off my board (as is Sweat)  
Bill L : 4/25/2019 3:15 pm : link
you build around him, you sacrifice taking other QB's and then he pulls a Chris Borland on you and you're screwed. Not going to risk it.
RE: Eric  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/25/2019 3:17 pm : link
In comment 14405175 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
if you looked at Jared Goff his first year, you would have thought he sucked. Rosen was in an even worse situation than that, and he looked decently OK as a rookie. Rookie QBs don't really perform that well most of the time.


What does that have to do with any of the questions I've raised?
Francesa just said  
Chris684 : 4/25/2019 3:24 pm : link
he's heard the Cardinals have not made one phone call about Rosen and that they might be having a contract hold up with Murray re: getting money back if he bolts for baseball.
Maybe a deal is already in place...  
M.S. : 4/25/2019 3:27 pm : link

...and no one is letting the cat out of the bag.
Further reason to laugh at the Rosen cultists  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 4/25/2019 3:33 pm : link
And the bbi echo chamber, the sheer stupidity.
RE: Further reason to laugh at the Rosen cultists  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/25/2019 3:42 pm : link
In comment 14405266 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
And the bbi echo chamber, the sheer stupidity.


Why haven't you been banned yet?
RE: Maybe a deal is already in place...  
eric2425ny : 4/25/2019 3:57 pm : link
In comment 14405234 M.S. said:
Quote:

...and no one is letting the cat out of the bag.


This, I bet he was traded to some team weeks ago with a stipulation that he has to be A.) healthy on the actual transaction day (likely tonight), and B.) the deal canít be announced until after the start of round 1. The NFL wants as much excitement for the prime time round 1 as possible.
I know what happen  
giantfan2000 : 4/25/2019 5:02 pm : link
Patrick Mahomes happened --
Patrick Mahome is now the prototype QB of the future a QB . that can cover up defects in your OL and that can make your team win much sooner than later all in his second year!


Now every losing teams wants their own Patrick Mahomes - Kyler Murray is this year's Patrick Mahomes
RE: I know what happen  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/25/2019 5:03 pm : link
In comment 14405610 giantfan2000 said:
Quote:
Patrick Mahomes happened --
Patrick Mahome is now the prototype QB of the future a QB . that can cover up defects in your OL and that can make your team win much sooner than later all in his second year!


Now every losing teams wants their own Patrick Mahomes - Kyler Murray is this year's Patrick Mahomes


I'm sorry but your answer doesn't make any sense from the perspective on why other teams are not trying to trade for him and are considering drafting Haskins, Jones, and others.
RE: I am not going through 3 pages of responses to see  
Brown_Hornet : 4/25/2019 5:08 pm : link
In comment 14405103 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
if this was covered already. I watched a lot of Rosen's last 2 years in college, and at the end had him ranked neck and neck with Darnold, just below Saquon (who was clearly a gold jacket guy indeed.)

Living in the LA area, I read tons of stuff about him, including many inquiries into the national media's slam of his personality and the local LA refutation of those digs.

The one issue that seemed to have some real traction was how coachable he is/was, not because he's stupid or uncaring, but because he's "the smartest guy in the room". Heck under the coaches he had at UCLA, that might have been true both ways.

And it might have again been true last year in Arizona. I mean, clearly the FO didn't think much of their own coaching staff last year - they fired them after ONE SEASON!

But the attitude of a player thinking he's the smartest guy in the room doesn't sail in the NFL, unless you've got serious skins on the wall, like Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers.

Could that be it? It sure isn't the dude's ability to toss the rock.

+1
I have only one comment.  
Big Al : 4/25/2019 5:10 pm : link
?
Potential  
Thegratefulhead : 4/25/2019 5:21 pm : link
I know a lot of you think some of us Rosen backers are crazy. I won't presume to speak for anyone else but I think he is a sure thing. This is why I will not stop banging his drum until there's no chance for us to have him on the team.

I agree with everyone who says if we give Eli decent protection a running game and competent wide receivers he will have a good season.I think if you give the same thing to Rosen, he is capable of Tom Brady Aaron Rodgers Drew Brees numbers. Smart and talented people sometimes rub people the wrong way.

Anyway that's what I see. I guarantee that if he gets put into a situation where he has time to survey the field and throw the ball, Rosen will be a top 5 in the NFL QB. That's why I keep posting about him. If we get Rosen and Barkley, I am thinking super bowls. Rosen is smart and he will exploit Barkleys greatness in the passing game.Rosen throws with touch and anticipation that is the key to Shurmur's offense for yards after the catch. It is a dream matchup.
Cards  
bc4life : 4/25/2019 5:34 pm : link
could be playing everybody
How much value  
Big Al : 4/25/2019 5:50 pm : link
doe a car lose when you drive it off the lot?

Oops, sorry wrong thread.

RE: RE: Itís because AZ is run by complete idiots.  
clatterbuck : 4/25/2019 6:59 pm : link
In comment 14404688 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In comment 14404676 sb from NYT Forum said:


Quote:


Itís really nothing more than that.



This. Kingsbury gets fired from Texas Tech, but somehow will transition into being the next offensive guru who lights up the NFL?


Agree. They hire/fire Wilks, change out OCs, then make a head-scratching move of hiring a losing college coach in Kingsbury. Rosen played with the worst or among the few worst O-lines in the league. His stats aren't mucch different than golden-boy Darnold. Meanwhile, his teammates speak highly of him and his attitude and work ethic. Sounds like organizational malfeasance more than the player.
RE: RE: I'd look at it this way  
clatterbuck : 4/25/2019 7:04 pm : link
In comment 14404907 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14404891 David B. said:


Quote:


The Giants did extensive homework on Rosen last year.
The owners had their dinners with him, etc.
They may well have liked him as a QB, but Barkley had the perfect grade.
He's already had his rookie growing pains behind a crap OL.
On the Giants, he'd sit a year and learn more behind Eli.
By the time he takes over, he should be significantly better than a rookie.
He's on a rookie contract, so he's still inexpensive.

There's a lot to like from that perspective.

If there's some horror show behind the scenes, wouldn't it have come out?

The concussion thing has been WAY overblown IMO. He got hit plenty last year.



And yet have the Giants even offered their #17 pick for him? If they haven't, what does that say?


Maybe it says the priority is to fix the defense with 6 and 17. They're OK with going with Eli this year. And maybe they think they can get Rosen for a second or maybe less (if they are inerested at all).

And it wouldn't shock me if the Pats jump in and make the trade with #32.
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