and they think he will be available in rd 2 when they pick. it's prob worth it for them to trade back into the first to get him just to save on the cap
Would think they could easily get Finley or Grier Â
Coming back into the first round to grab a QB you don’t have a “franchise” mentality on (or else they would have been snapped up earlier) is a wasted pick, imo.
Coming back into the first round to grab a QB you don’t have a “franchise” mentality on (or else they would have been snapped up earlier) is a wasted pick, imo.
Why can't there be an in between. I don't think not wanting a guy at 6 means you don't love him. It can simply mean he just isn't rated as high.
If Jones is an 80 and an ER is a 90, take the ER. If Jones slips and he's now more in line with the rest of your board in the 20's, then do what you have to do to move up.
I'm fine with this. There's no way I want us picking a QB at 6 (or even 17) that's rated far behind the top end talent.
you draft Haskins, Murray, or trade for Rosen. I hate when teams do this crap where they move into the late 1st to get a QB. Outside of Rogers, how many good QB’s in recent memory have come out of the end of the first round?
All I can think of are the types like Brandon Weeden, JP Losman, Manziel, etc.
If that’s our plan I hope we just wait until next year to draft a QB.
Doubt that the Giants 2nd and 3rd (late third) enough? Even that would leave a draft hole from late 1st to 108th overall. Probably a 2020 pick in the trade.
don't like this. Either have a conviction to draft a QB you think can be your franchise QB or dont waste a big asset on one of these middling QBs. Im tired of these half measures like lauletta last year
Clearer by the day that the Giants are an organization that just does not know how to evaluate the qb position. Possibly it could be due to a lack of objectivity around Eli, but when I see names like Ryan Finley and Will Grier (as well as Jones for that matter) as first round picks, you just have to wonder.
Coming back into the first round to grab a QB you don’t have a “franchise” mentality on (or else they would have been snapped up earlier) is a wasted pick, imo.
Why can't there be an in between. I don't think not wanting a guy at 6 means you don't love him. It can simply mean he just isn't rated as high.
If Jones is an 80 and an ER is a 90, take the ER. If Jones slips and he's now more in line with the rest of your board in the 20's, then do what you have to do to move up.
I'm fine with this. There's no way I want us picking a QB at 6 (or even 17) that's rated far behind the top end talent.
Sorry, disagree to a degree. You take a QB that you believe can be your guy for at least the next decade. You don’t draft potential projects or might be’s..The stakes are too high, imo..If you believe totally in your projected QB pick, you don’t fluck around, you take him as soon as you can. Polian and Brandt have said this many times through the years
RE: Jesus Christ. Just get fucking Rosen if he's made available. Â
unless it was for Jones. Grier and Finley are not QB's that can carry a team. They are game managers at best. I would lose faith in Gettleman if he thought that either was the long term answer. If that's the case they need to wait until 2020 and take their chances then.
Clearer by the day that the Giants are an organization that just does not know how to evaluate the qb position. Possibly it could be due to a lack of objectivity around Eli, but when I see names like Ryan Finley and Will Grier (as well as Jones for that matter) as first round picks, you just have to wonder.
love keyboard warriors with the strong takes off of a comment that is complete speculation. let them actually do something before passing judgement.
our fourth or fifth choice? I call bullshit. If a QB is not worth taking with the 17th choice, or rated by the team as worth trading up from 17 into the top ten for, then he isn't worth taking (as the next franchise QB)at all.
RE: RE: RE: Jesus Christ. Just get fucking Rosen if he's made available. Â
Coming back into the first round to grab a QB you don’t have a “franchise” mentality on (or else they would have been snapped up earlier) is a wasted pick, imo.
Why can't there be an in between. I don't think not wanting a guy at 6 means you don't love him. It can simply mean he just isn't rated as high.
If Jones is an 80 and an ER is a 90, take the ER. If Jones slips and he's now more in line with the rest of your board in the 20's, then do what you have to do to move up.
I'm fine with this. There's no way I want us picking a QB at 6 (or even 17) that's rated far behind the top end talent.
Sorry, disagree to a degree. You take a QB that you believe can be your guy for at least the next decade. You don’t draft potential projects or might be’s..The stakes are too high, imo..If you believe totally in your projected QB pick, you don’t fluck around, you take him as soon as you can. Polian and Brandt have said this many times through the years
Yeah and I get that. But they are starting Eli this year and have a stocked draft next year at the position. If you like a QB but he's simply not at the top of your board, what's the point in over drafting him? Why did Baltimore do it last year? They likely had Jackson dinged for his flaws but felt the value was much better towards the end of the first. They drafted a TE over him at 25, and now Jackson (right or wrong) is their starting QB.
This isn't the end all be all draft for QB - they made that clear by giving Eli his bonus. He's here to stay for 2019 which tells me they aren't going to force the pick but will look into jumping on an opportunity should it present itself. That's good business, IMO.
Don’t be duped. We are all anxious and these guys know it by writing this shit. Remind yourselves -don’t you find it amazing that just about 3.5 hours before a most secretive draft, that all of a sudden teams are chirping their intentions.
This kid makes the most sense for the Giants. The kid has a good contract, a year of experience with a line even worse than the Giants and will be coached by a guy who has demonstrated the ability to improve QBs with much less talent.
I watched Jones 4 times this year, Lock 3 times and Haskins 4-5 times. At no point in time did any impress me other than Haskins, who was inconsistent.
Clearer by the day that the Giants are an organization that just does not know how to evaluate the qb position. Possibly it could be due to a lack of objectivity around Eli, but when I see names like Ryan Finley and Will Grier (as well as Jones for that matter) as first round picks, you just have to wonder.
I'm constantly amazed at the people who read reports like this and just automatically believe its real. When did people become so gullible and naive?
Then it seems to me they plan to build with a big O Line and running game, and a dominant defense, with a game manager at QB.
I'm a contrarian by nature, but that to me is Giants football. I would LOVE it. And I think it still wins in the NFL, despite how it has morphed. If anything, I think it would be harder to play against a team like that today than it would have 20 or 30 years ago.
Don’t be duped. We are all anxious and these guys know it by writing this shit. Remind yourselves -don’t you find it amazing that just about 3.5 hours before a most secretive draft, that all of a sudden teams are chirping their intentions.
Rap got the information from other teams, not the Giants. Presumably because they Giants have had preliminary discussions about those picks with some of these teams.
RE: That would be a monumentally stupid decision Â
unless it was for Jones. Grier and Finley are not QB's that can carry a team. They are game managers at best. I would lose faith in Gettleman if he thought that either was the long term answer. If that's the case they need to wait until 2020 and take their chances then.
With all due respect, are you suggesting Jones is more than a game manager??
Help me understand the differences between Jones and Finley. Because I really don't see any.
If they grade any of them as early 2nd round players, just because they could get the fifth year on the rookie deal. That’s a huge issue with Rosen. You get a guy who will be in year 3 by the time he starts and he’d only have 3 years left on his rookie deal.
It looks like Lock is going to be there in the 20s
That's my guess as well.
And I think right now it’s a contingency in case the QB run in the mid 1st plays out to where Jones goes high. I think Rosen is fallback contingency if 1st round QB options don’t pan out.
I think Lock is as good a bet to be a Giant as Jones is.
Coming back into the first round to grab a QB you don’t have a “franchise” mentality on (or else they would have been snapped up earlier) is a wasted pick, imo.
Respectfully I disagree. It’s all about risk and reward. Using #6 or #17 on any of the QBs is too risky, especially with all the big needs the Giants have. But at #37 or the end of the 1st round would be much less of a risk.
Maybe they’ll pan out to be a starting QB or maybe they won’t. But if they don’t at least you didn’t miss out on a top defender (and this draft is loaded with them).
with Lock or Jones. Haskins I kind of get but the limited body of work is an issue, but Jones just looks a bit slow at processing information and floats balls, Lock has arm talent but is a bit all over the place technically (and it causes the ball to do funny things sometimes)
RE: RE: I bet this is all coming from that quote Â
The media took that and applied it to the next in line QBs.
I'm not putting much stock in this
You may be correct here.
Would anyone really be shocked if the Giants did NOT take a QB? I wouldn't.
If they don't then fine. I have to believe that they like a couple of them and will take one in round 2-3 especially if they can trade back with 17 and get more 2nd or 3rd round picks.
RE: I don't normally criticise players but I really don't see it Â
with Lock or Jones. Haskins I kind of get but the limited body of work is an issue, but Jones just looks a bit slow at processing information and floats balls, Lock has arm talent but is a bit all over the place technically (and it causes the ball to do funny things sometimes)
Murray has the same, “limited body of work.” Just sayin’..:)
Don't take a QB just to take a QB. If they are convinced Jones is the guy to be a Giant for the next 15 years....you take him at number 6 and don't look back.
I'm not advocating that...but only take a QB if you think he is the guy.
It's your turn to pick and there's a linebacker available, who you like, but there are other players available who you have rated much higher. It would be idiocy imho to take the lb over higher rated players.
I also believe that the same logic should apply with respect to a QB. You stay true to your board. Your board may be influenced by positional importance. A Qb might be tiered higher than his actual value but once a value is assigned, you shouldn't reach. That doesn't mean that when value meets ranking that you shouldn't take a player that you already passed on.
RE: Jesus Christ. Just get fucking Rosen if he's made available. Â
He's better than all of these guys we're talking about here.
I really feel like that's the point. We've now been linked to Haskins, Lock, Jones, Grier, and even Finley. They're trying to get Arizona off their ass. I know it's foolish to be optimistic with this team but it makes a lot more sense than trading back into the first round for Ryan Finley or taking Jones at 6.
If you do that, he won't be playing for us until the third year of his deal or possibly later. Doesn't make sense. I wanted to trade for Rosen, but it had to happen in conjunction with cutting Eli. Rosen needs to be playing this year.
If you do that, he won't be playing for us until the third year of his deal or possibly later. Doesn't make sense. I wanted to trade for Rosen, but it had to happen in conjunction with cutting Eli. Rosen needs to be playing this year.
Disagree, most rookies take at least 2 years before they are any good. He got one year of experience on a shitty team, and he would learn from Eli for at least part or all of this season. You would have 2 years of him starting on his rookie deal plus his 5th year option. Not sure why this isn’t viable anymore. The Cardinals also get stuck paying his whole rookie signing bonus, so financially it’s a great deal for the Giants.
If the Giants aren't going to go for Rosen, Lock, Haskins, or Jones Â
then they might as well just avoid taking a QB unless Tyree Jackson is still on the board in rounds 4-5 or take Dolegala in the 7th round. Taking Grier or Finley is the definition of QB hell. Even if they become starters they won't be anything special.
If you do that, he won't be playing for us until the third year of his deal or possibly later. Doesn't make sense. I wanted to trade for Rosen, but it had to happen in conjunction with cutting Eli. Rosen needs to be playing this year.
Taking a QB in round 2 gives the Giants the same amount of years of control as Rosen. I don't understand this thought process that they only get 4 years of Rosen. If he works out who the fuck cares? Do some of you have a crystal ball that says Eli will play well and stay healthy all year? What if Eli comes out and plays his age while the defense and running game are playing well? It's better to have Rosen to turn to than Lauletta or Tanney.
As I like the idea of finding a day two type that you can groom. I realize that Drew Brees and Russel Wilson are hard to find, but I think it’s worth the investment cost. If there is a guy you know you would take in round 2 why not trade back into round 1, pick 25 or later, and get that 5th year option.
I like what I have seen from Stidham. His 2017 tape looks promising. His 2018 tape was inconsistent at best. But if he’s a Schurmur scheme fit then I think he might be worth the effort.
Grier and Finley are not first round picks. Even taking either at #37 is a big reach. I also don't think Grier could survive the NY media.
As far as Lock is concerned, yes, I could see them trading back into the first round if he fell into the 20s. But I don't think he will. Despite concerns with his accuracy and mechanics, he's mobile and has a terrific arm. Someone will take him before the cost to move up is affordable.
Clearer by the day that the Giants are an organization that just does not know how to evaluate the qb position. Possibly it could be due to a lack of objectivity around Eli, but when I see names like Ryan Finley and Will Grier (as well as Jones for that matter) as first round picks, you just have to wonder.
Clearer by the day, Really? you have no idea what the Giants are thinking or doing
One of the analysts said that the Giants didn't like Rosen last year because of his injury history, and that hasn't changed at all, so the Giants still are NOT interested.
That might sound stupid but of all the stupid things being said right now, it fits right in. And there's still over an hour before the draft starts.
GFC
In fact I would prefer Rosen.
This^^^. I sure hope this isn’t the case! Haskins or trade for Rosen. Heck or extend Eli 2 or 3 more years and be done with it!
Why can't there be an in between. I don't think not wanting a guy at 6 means you don't love him. It can simply mean he just isn't rated as high.
If Jones is an 80 and an ER is a 90, take the ER. If Jones slips and he's now more in line with the rest of your board in the 20's, then do what you have to do to move up.
I'm fine with this. There's no way I want us picking a QB at 6 (or even 17) that's rated far behind the top end talent.
All I can think of are the types like Brandon Weeden, JP Losman, Manziel, etc.
If that’s our plan I hope we just wait until next year to draft a QB.
If Jones is there at 20 something (assuming that's where the need to be) sure go for it.
I'd skip the other 2 guys or wait till the second round +
Now I am not a Rosen fan by any stretch of the imagination, but if 37 gets that done, I probably pull the trigger.
If Jones is gone, I absolutely pull the trigger
You do know that most of this crap isn't true, right?
Just because someone says something, doesn't make it a fact.
Grier is more interesting. But they can stay at 37 and get him.
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Coming back into the first round to grab a QB you don’t have a “franchise” mentality on (or else they would have been snapped up earlier) is a wasted pick, imo.
Why can't there be an in between. I don't think not wanting a guy at 6 means you don't love him. It can simply mean he just isn't rated as high.
If Jones is an 80 and an ER is a 90, take the ER. If Jones slips and he's now more in line with the rest of your board in the 20's, then do what you have to do to move up.
I'm fine with this. There's no way I want us picking a QB at 6 (or even 17) that's rated far behind the top end talent.
Sorry, disagree to a degree. You take a QB that you believe can be your guy for at least the next decade. You don’t draft potential projects or might be’s..The stakes are too high, imo..If you believe totally in your projected QB pick, you don’t fluck around, you take him as soon as you can. Polian and Brandt have said this many times through the years
Yup, at this point I’d give up 17 for him. Why not? So we can use that pick on a player at the same position that is likely inferior?
Quote:
He's better than all of these guys we're talking about here.
Yup, at this point I’d give up 17 for him. Why not? So we can use that pick on a player at the same position that is likely inferior?
They don’t need to give up 17. Cardinals would jump if they offered 37.
love keyboard warriors with the strong takes off of a comment that is complete speculation. let them actually do something before passing judgement.
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In comment 14405496 The_Boss said:
Quote:
He's better than all of these guys we're talking about here.
Yup, at this point I’d give up 17 for him. Why not? So we can use that pick on a player at the same position that is likely inferior?
They don’t need to give up 17. Cardinals would jump if they offered 37.
I meant if 37 wasn’t good enough.
My thoughts exactly ... all the sudden everyone’s puffing BS smoke
The giants and Rosen make too much sense
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On AZ to lower their demands on Rosen?
My thoughts exactly ... all the sudden everyone’s puffing BS smoke
The giants and Rosen make too much sense
And I've been saying for weeks/months there is no way we trade for him. All the sudden in the last day I think it's a legit possibility.
Quote:
In comment 14405452 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Coming back into the first round to grab a QB you don’t have a “franchise” mentality on (or else they would have been snapped up earlier) is a wasted pick, imo.
Why can't there be an in between. I don't think not wanting a guy at 6 means you don't love him. It can simply mean he just isn't rated as high.
If Jones is an 80 and an ER is a 90, take the ER. If Jones slips and he's now more in line with the rest of your board in the 20's, then do what you have to do to move up.
I'm fine with this. There's no way I want us picking a QB at 6 (or even 17) that's rated far behind the top end talent.
Sorry, disagree to a degree. You take a QB that you believe can be your guy for at least the next decade. You don’t draft potential projects or might be’s..The stakes are too high, imo..If you believe totally in your projected QB pick, you don’t fluck around, you take him as soon as you can. Polian and Brandt have said this many times through the years
Yeah and I get that. But they are starting Eli this year and have a stocked draft next year at the position. If you like a QB but he's simply not at the top of your board, what's the point in over drafting him? Why did Baltimore do it last year? They likely had Jackson dinged for his flaws but felt the value was much better towards the end of the first. They drafted a TE over him at 25, and now Jackson (right or wrong) is their starting QB.
This isn't the end all be all draft for QB - they made that clear by giving Eli his bonus. He's here to stay for 2019 which tells me they aren't going to force the pick but will look into jumping on an opportunity should it present itself. That's good business, IMO.
I'm thinking they just don't like Rosen in the NYC environment.
I watched Jones 4 times this year, Lock 3 times and Haskins 4-5 times. At no point in time did any impress me other than Haskins, who was inconsistent.
I'm constantly amazed at the people who read reports like this and just automatically believe its real. When did people become so gullible and naive?
I'm a contrarian by nature, but that to me is Giants football. I would LOVE it. And I think it still wins in the NFL, despite how it has morphed. If anything, I think it would be harder to play against a team like that today than it would have 20 or 30 years ago.
Rap got the information from other teams, not the Giants. Presumably because they Giants have had preliminary discussions about those picks with some of these teams.
With all due respect, are you suggesting Jones is more than a game manager??
Help me understand the differences between Jones and Finley. Because I really don't see any.
That's my suspicion, I truly hope this is smokescreen
You can almost make a case for doing that for Jones, since many feel he won't even last until 17. But Finley and Grier are 3rd RD guys.
It jives with what I've heard but it's the first I've heard Finley.
I'm thinking they just don't like Rosen in the NYC environment.
Which I can’t figure out. It’s not like he’s some hayseed from Nebraska.
Makes no sense at all.
That's my guess as well.
Finley's going to be 25 in Dec 2019. Went to Boise State in 2013 the same year Jared Goff went to Cal.
More of Gettleman's "culture!" malarkey
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It looks like Lock is going to be there in the 20s
That's my guess as well.
And I think right now it’s a contingency in case the QB run in the mid 1st plays out to where Jones goes high. I think Rosen is fallback contingency if 1st round QB options don’t pan out.
I think Lock is as good a bet to be a Giant as Jones is.
Respectfully I disagree. It’s all about risk and reward. Using #6 or #17 on any of the QBs is too risky, especially with all the big needs the Giants have. But at #37 or the end of the 1st round would be much less of a risk.
Maybe they’ll pan out to be a starting QB or maybe they won’t. But if they don’t at least you didn’t miss out on a top defender (and this draft is loaded with them).
I supposed it's because they're already counting on that 2020 1st pick being in in the 28-32 overall pick range.
The media took that and applied it to the next in line QBs.
I'm not putting much stock in this
The media took that and applied it to the next in line QBs.
I'm not putting much stock in this
You may be correct here.
Would anyone really be shocked if the Giants did NOT take a QB? I wouldn't.
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that read he wants two starters AND a QB to sit.
The media took that and applied it to the next in line QBs.
I'm not putting much stock in this
You may be correct here.
Would anyone really be shocked if the Giants did NOT take a QB? I wouldn't.
If they don't then fine. I have to believe that they like a couple of them and will take one in round 2-3 especially if they can trade back with 17 and get more 2nd or 3rd round picks.
Murray has the same, “limited body of work.” Just sayin’..:)
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that read he wants two starters AND a QB to sit.
The media took that and applied it to the next in line QBs.
I'm not putting much stock in this
You may be correct here.
Would anyone really be shocked if the Giants did NOT take a QB? I wouldn't.
I don't think they are going to draft a QB.
Quote:
that read he wants two starters AND a QB to sit.
The media took that and applied it to the next in line QBs.
I'm not putting much stock in this
I wouldn’t be shocked or upset about not taking a qb
You may be correct here.
Would anyone really be shocked if the Giants did NOT take a QB? I wouldn't.
I'm not advocating that...but only take a QB if you think he is the guy.
Quote:
On AZ to lower their demands on Rosen?
That's my suspicion, I truly hope this is smokescreen
That’s a great point about pressuring AZ.
I also believe that the same logic should apply with respect to a QB. You stay true to your board. Your board may be influenced by positional importance. A Qb might be tiered higher than his actual value but once a value is assigned, you shouldn't reach. That doesn't mean that when value meets ranking that you shouldn't take a player that you already passed on.
I really feel like that's the point. We've now been linked to Haskins, Lock, Jones, Grier, and even Finley. They're trying to get Arizona off their ass. I know it's foolish to be optimistic with this team but it makes a lot more sense than trading back into the first round for Ryan Finley or taking Jones at 6.
Disagree, most rookies take at least 2 years before they are any good. He got one year of experience on a shitty team, and he would learn from Eli for at least part or all of this season. You would have 2 years of him starting on his rookie deal plus his 5th year option. Not sure why this isn’t viable anymore. The Cardinals also get stuck paying his whole rookie signing bonus, so financially it’s a great deal for the Giants.
Exactly.
Taking a QB in round 2 gives the Giants the same amount of years of control as Rosen. I don't understand this thought process that they only get 4 years of Rosen. If he works out who the fuck cares? Do some of you have a crystal ball that says Eli will play well and stay healthy all year? What if Eli comes out and plays his age while the defense and running game are playing well? It's better to have Rosen to turn to than Lauletta or Tanney.
I like what I have seen from Stidham. His 2017 tape looks promising. His 2018 tape was inconsistent at best. But if he’s a Schurmur scheme fit then I think he might be worth the effort.
Jones will likely go in the top 15 picks.
Grier and Finley are not first round picks. Even taking either at #37 is a big reach. I also don't think Grier could survive the NY media.
As far as Lock is concerned, yes, I could see them trading back into the first round if he fell into the 20s. But I don't think he will. Despite concerns with his accuracy and mechanics, he's mobile and has a terrific arm. Someone will take him before the cost to move up is affordable.
Clearer by the day, Really? you have no idea what the Giants are thinking or doing
It’s what the ravens did last year, trading up to 32 for Lamar Jackson. Because you can sign the guy for 5 years instead of 4.
What’s the knock on Grier? He was very good in college at WV. Gentleman and crew went out to watch him live.
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Wouldn’t they be available with our 2nd Round pick?
It’s what the ravens did last year, trading up to 32 for Lamar Jackson. Because you can sign the guy for 5 years instead of 4.
What’s the knock on Grier? He was very good in college at WV. Gentleman and crew went out to watch him live.
Older, and an average arm.
That might sound stupid but of all the stupid things being said right now, it fits right in. And there's still over an hour before the draft starts.
If we get Allen at 6 and trade for Rosen and picks in round 2 and/or 3 I will me happy.
If we get Allen at 6 and trade for Rosen and picks in round 2 and/or 3 I will me happy.
No Way. I don't see Skins giving up all those picks. I think skins just playing trying to get Giants to trade up.