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Daniel Jones. Please sell me on this pick.

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/25/2019 10:55 pm
I want to be an optimist. Life is to short to be negative. I saw a couple of Duke games & never came away thinking he was a top 10 pick, but maybe I'm wrong.

So, you Jones fans, tell me why I'm wrong. There's some here. I hope this kid makes me eat crow.
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RE: Gil Brandt says  
GothamGiants : 4/25/2019 11:06 pm : link
In comment 14407906 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Jones reminds him of Peyton Manning and that their skill set and college stats are eerily similar


Gil and Cosell and Sy and I like Jones ... at least the giants weren’t blinded by Haskins pretty stats.

And imagine..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/25/2019 11:07 pm : link
that. I don't like Jones and still can come off not looking like a whiny cunt.

Quote:
Let’s be fair for a moment. You don’t like Jones either. You’ve posted such for weeks.


Josh watched Darnold be pedestrian last year and Barkley do very well and still posted constantly about firing Gettleman and how it was a terrible pick.

I also wanted the giants to draft Darnold last year (and actually wanted them to draft Lamar Jackson before he started flaking off with his mom as his agent).

I have reservations about Jones. But I'm more sure that Josh is a shitty poster than Jones is a poor QB.
RE: RE: 6’5  
Amtoft : 4/25/2019 11:08 pm : link
In comment 14407889 bigbluescot said:
Quote:
In comment 14407838 GothamGiants said:


Quote:


Mobile
Accurate
Good arm
Tough

Ignore his stats, his team wa pathetic.

I like Jones a lot actually - passing on Allen was just mind blowing to me. Jones has a lot o like about him, glad they didn’t reach on Haskins



He's not accurate. Sorry but he's not. Statistically he's not accurate at all, and watching the cutups, he's not great a ball placement he's constantly hitting the receivers high or on the back hip and not in stride. I suppose that's the receivers fault.

His arm is borderline. His deep outs float, he doesn't drive them at all.


You are wrong.
I am struggling to think of a player...  
bw in dc : 4/25/2019 11:08 pm : link
who has been taken as high as Jones with essentially no plus or plus-plus ability.

Sorry, but it's a near impossible sell because the value at #6 just wasn't there.

In fact, there were better players at every other single position of importance on the board who were considerably better than Jones.

This was the essence of poor draft management.
Personally I just hate the "he wasn't surrounded by talent" argument  
Leg of Theismann : 4/25/2019 11:08 pm : link
I HATE when you have to make excuses/rationalizations for why a guy is going to be good. You should just be able to turn on the tape and see he's a great player (if you're taking him at #6 at least). I don't see that with Jones.

So he's a hard-worker and a great teammate. Davis Webb said he was going to work harder than anyone's ever worked. It didn't end up mattering because he wasn't any good. He sucked. You have to actually be good at football to be good at it. It doesn't matter who your mentor was or how "rah rah" of a teammate you are.

A lot of people knocked Haskins for having such great talent around him and that being the reason his stats were so good. I still say you can't just put any QB in any system and watch him throw 50 TDs, otherwise guys would be doing it every freakin' year (they're not, those 50 TDs broke Drew Brees' Big 10 record). Not to mention the Ohio St. offense really wasn't tailored to Haskins's strengths as a QB. How confident are we Jones would have thrown 50 TDs if he played at Ohio St.?
He s big Strong and mobile  
joeinpa : 4/25/2019 11:09 pm : link
A great athlete, who sees the field and has a good touch on his throws

Kid is going to be very good.

Ignore the naysayers who speak with such conviction about a player well thought of inside NFL circles.


Funny Twitter Poll from this afternoon...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/25/2019 11:10 pm : link
"For Giants/Knicks fans, would you be okay with the Giants drafting Daniel Jones if that guaranteed the Knicks would get Zion Williamson this summer?"

The poll was 86% YES... 14% NO
RE: He's tough as nails.  
Since1965 : 4/25/2019 11:12 pm : link
In comment 14407926 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
He's a hard worker.

He's got great touch on his passes.

He's the most mobile Giants QB you've ever seen.

He doesn't turn the ball over.

He's got great size for the pro position.

He won't embarrass the organization.

"He's the most mobile Giants QB you've ever seen. Uh..... Gary Wood and Fran Tarkenton.
He's a solid round 1 NFL quarterback prospect  
MM_in_NYC : 4/25/2019 11:13 pm : link
The negatives you've heard about him, such as arm strength, are overblown. He in fact has a average NFL arm and can likely improve it with strength training. His timing on throws is excellent. He's tough as shit. You almost always have to pass on better talent at other positions to draft quarterbacks because quarterback position is that valuable. We don't have to draft a QB never year when we suck because this year our defense will be fucking disgraceful. Allen was overrated and too one dimensional, that's why he wasn't picked top 5.
It has to be said every year with the draft  
Oscar : 4/25/2019 11:13 pm : link
But nobody knows shit. The guy you saw who just did a good tweet does not know shit. The former player sitting on a panel on ESPN does not know shit. Football analytics guy who came up with some projection system does not know shit. The beat writer who will go in FAN tomorrow and trash the pick does not know shit.

None of us know fucking dick about about this kid will do in the pros. Just chill and see how it plays out.
Two-time team captain.  
CT Charlie : 4/25/2019 11:14 pm : link
Mobile for a tall guy, scored 17 rushing TD's, which Shurmur might like in comparison to Haskins. No question marks about character, thanks to the Mannings and Cutliffe -- though Haskins is high quality, too. Strange logic: If Eli is bad this season, there will probably be less fan demand for Jones than there would have been for Haskins or Rosen, simply because they're sexier choices. One of the top 2-3 Wonderlic scores among QB's. Known to be exceptionally hard worker -- first in, last out. Charlie Casserly called him the most NFL-ready QB in the draft, and Gil Brandt basically said he's a more athletic version of Peyton. Tough kid, broke his collarbone and was playing, with screws in, 20 days later.
Well, I don’t like the pick.  
bigbluehoya : 4/25/2019 11:15 pm : link
Sounds like he’ll be an easy enough kid to root for, though.
RE: Funny Twitter Poll from this afternoon...  
bigbluehoya : 4/25/2019 11:16 pm : link
In comment 14407968 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
"For Giants/Knicks fans, would you be okay with the Giants drafting Daniel Jones if that guaranteed the Knicks would get Zion Williamson this summer?"

The poll was 86% YES... 14% NO


I’d agree with the people! Make it so.
Can’t sell it  
Rflairr : 4/25/2019 11:16 pm : link
.
RE: Gil Brandt says  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/25/2019 11:17 pm : link
In comment 14407906 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Jones reminds him of Peyton Manning and that their skill set and college stats are eerily similar


Their college stats are similar... except for the fact they're NOT. Manning played in an offense with infinitely less screens and dump-offs, yet completed more passes for FAR more TDs, while getting picked off less often, and averaging a far superior yards per attempt.

Look at the best QBs in the NFL. With the exception of Tom Brady (who was a 6th round draft pick), they all put up superior numbers in college to Jones.
RE: RE: RE: 6’5  
bigbluescot : 4/25/2019 11:18 pm : link
In comment 14407941 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 14407889 bigbluescot said:


Quote:


In comment 14407838 GothamGiants said:


Quote:


Mobile
Accurate
Good arm
Tough

Ignore his stats, his team wa pathetic.

I like Jones a lot actually - passing on Allen was just mind blowing to me. Jones has a lot o like about him, glad they didn’t reach on Haskins



He's not accurate. Sorry but he's not. Statistically he's not accurate at all, and watching the cutups, he's not great a ball placement he's constantly hitting the receivers high or on the back hip and not in stride. I suppose that's the receivers fault.

His arm is borderline. His deep outs float, he doesn't drive them at all.



You are wrong.


Nope. I'm right based on production, everything else is excuse making about the lack of talent around him. Yes, they had a lot of drops last year, but ultimately over a career he's still got a completion rate of under 60% in an offense with a shit ton of RPO's and short passing.
RE: He’s fucking horrible  
MookGiants : 4/25/2019 11:19 pm : link
In comment 14407829 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
Sorry there is no sugar coating it. Will go down as the worst pick and biggest reach in franchise history. Taking a day 3 guy at 6 overall. Doesn’t get any worse. Fire gettleman!


Jesus christ im not a huge Jones fan but calling him a day three guy is incredibly dumb
RE: RE: He’s fucking horrible  
Del Shofner : 4/25/2019 11:20 pm : link
In comment 14408057 MookGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14407829 Josh in the City said:


Quote:


Sorry there is no sugar coating it. Will go down as the worst pick and biggest reach in franchise history. Taking a day 3 guy at 6 overall. Doesn’t get any worse. Fire gettleman!



Jesus christ im not a huge Jones fan but calling him a day three guy is incredibly dumb


Tom Brady was a day three guy too.
RE: He s big Strong and mobile  
bigbluescot : 4/25/2019 11:25 pm : link
In comment 14407960 joeinpa said:
Quote:
A great athlete, who sees the field and has a good touch on his throws

Kid is going to be very good.

Ignore the naysayers who speak with such conviction about a player well thought of inside NFL circles.



Again statistically, almost all of his production was on the first read. One source said only 6% of his throws were when he went off the first read but to be fair the article is pretty thin (https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/2019-contextualized-quarterbacking-duke-qb-daniel-jones). However when you watch Duke games it's noticeable. It's a heavy rpo and short passing offense.

Quote:
Jones was primarily asked to execute 0/1-step drops, RPOs, screens, and rollouts, concepts that generally indicate simpler, or even singular, reads. He did so on a whopping 72.6% of his dropbacks, the eighth-highest rate among 164 quarterbacks who dropped back 100+ times in 2018. To give you an idea of how that might translate to the NFL, Nick Foles had the highest rate of 43 NFL quarterbacks at 58.3%. Only two other quarterbacks did so at a rate above 50%, and the average rate among quarterbacks who dropped back at least 100 times was 33.8%.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: Can’t sell it  
Canton : 4/25/2019 11:25 pm : link
In comment 14408033 Rflairr said:
Quote:
.


Sure we can.
If he can build his arm strength then maybe...  
sb from NYT Forum : 4/25/2019 11:27 pm : link
...he can be a starting QB. That’s all I got.

I’m used to saying that about 3rd rounders [smh]
RE: Gil Brandt says  
twostepgiants : 4/25/2019 11:28 pm : link
In comment 14407906 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Jones reminds him of Peyton Manning and that their skill set and college stats are eerily similar


Peyton Manning was one of the greatest college QBs of all-time. He was presumed to be the #1 pick in the draft if he came out as a Junior and was as Senior.

Peyton had 10,060 yds passing and 78 TD with 27 INT with a 147 rating in his soph-senior years (34 starts)

Jones has 8201 passing with 52 TD with 29 INT and a 122 rating in his soph-Senior tears. (36 starts)

To sum up the difference, Peyton had 1,859 more pass yards with 26 more TD and 2 less INT in 2 less games.

Jones threw for 2659 yards and 22 TD this year so the difference is nearly a full season of Jones to make it up in stats.

Or

Peyton avg 296 yds per game to Jones 228 yds per game
Peyton avg 2.3 TDs per game to Jones 1.45 TD per game
Peyton had .79 INT per game to Jones .80 INT per game

He's got great hair and an award-winning smile.  
Klaatu : 4/25/2019 11:32 pm : link
....
RE: RE: Gil Brandt says  
Johnny5 : 4/25/2019 11:32 pm : link
In comment 14408152 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14407906 gidiefor said:


Quote:


Jones reminds him of Peyton Manning and that their skill set and college stats are eerily similar



Peyton Manning was one of the greatest college QBs of all-time. He was presumed to be the #1 pick in the draft if he came out as a Junior and was as Senior.

Peyton had 10,060 yds passing and 78 TD with 27 INT with a 147 rating in his soph-senior years (34 starts)

Jones has 8201 passing with 52 TD with 29 INT and a 122 rating in his soph-Senior tears. (36 starts)

To sum up the difference, Peyton had 1,859 more pass yards with 26 more TD and 2 less INT in 2 less games.

Jones threw for 2659 yards and 22 TD this year so the difference is nearly a full season of Jones to make it up in stats.

Or

Peyton avg 296 yds per game to Jones 228 yds per game
Peyton avg 2.3 TDs per game to Jones 1.45 TD per game
Peyton had .79 INT per game to Jones .80 INT per game

Pretty sure that the mid 90's Vols were a slightly better overall team than Duke.
RE: RE: RE: Gil Brandt says  
twostepgiants : 4/25/2019 11:53 pm : link
In comment 14408193 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 14408152 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


In comment 14407906 gidiefor said:


Quote:


Jones reminds him of Peyton Manning and that their skill set and college stats are eerily similar



Peyton Manning was one of the greatest college QBs of all-time. He was presumed to be the #1 pick in the draft if he came out as a Junior and was as Senior.

Peyton had 10,060 yds passing and 78 TD with 27 INT with a 147 rating in his soph-senior years (34 starts)

Jones has 8201 passing with 52 TD with 29 INT and a 122 rating in his soph-Senior tears. (36 starts)

To sum up the difference, Peyton had 1,859 more pass yards with 26 more TD and 2 less INT in 2 less games.

Jones threw for 2659 yards and 22 TD this year so the difference is nearly a full season of Jones to make it up in stats.

Or

Peyton avg 296 yds per game to Jones 228 yds per game
Peyton avg 2.3 TDs per game to Jones 1.45 TD per game
Peyton had .79 INT per game to Jones .80 INT per game



Pretty sure that the mid 90's Vols were a slightly better overall team than Duke.


I’m sorry but did the post not say “stats eeerily similar”?
I thought Jones was the best QB in this class  
Go Terps : 4/26/2019 12:00 am : link
Highest upside.
RE: I thought Jones was the best QB in this class  
bw in dc : 4/26/2019 12:02 am : link
In comment 14408463 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Highest upside.


If you have another kid and it's a boy, I take it Daniel will be the name? ;)
RE: RE: I thought Jones was the best QB in this class  
Go Terps : 4/26/2019 12:04 am : link
In comment 14408490 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14408463 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Highest upside.



If you have another kid and it's a boy, I take it Daniel will be the name? ;)


It's funny you say that...I just found out today I'm having another boy, no shit.
Congrats GT  
figgy2989 : 4/26/2019 12:05 am : link
Great news for you and the Mrs. Best of luck to you guys.
RE: Congrats GT  
Go Terps : 4/26/2019 12:10 am : link
In comment 14408517 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
Great news for you and the Mrs. Best of luck to you guys.


Thanks!
RE: RE: RE: I thought Jones was the best QB in this class  
bw in dc : 4/26/2019 12:11 am : link
In comment 14408506 Go Terps said:
Quote:

It's funny you say that...I just found out today I'm having another boy, no shit.


Congrats. Great news.

I know we differ on Jones, but I'd be careful putting that name in the hat. :)
RE: RE: RE: I thought Jones was the best QB in this class  
arcarsenal : 4/26/2019 12:12 am : link
In comment 14408506 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14408490 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 14408463 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Highest upside.



If you have another kid and it's a boy, I take it Daniel will be the name? ;)



It's funny you say that...I just found out today I'm having another boy, no shit.


Congrats, man.

As for Jones and the thread... well, he wasn't my favorite QB in this class, but I do think he does some things well and there's room to grow. I think he'll be a good fit for Shurmur's offense.

Barkley is going to be the centerpiece. We're not going to be a team that's slinging the ball 700 times like the Steelers did last year. Tate and Shepard are guys who will get open underneath and in the flats and make things happen with the ball in their hands.

I want to move Engram outside a bit or draft a WR with a little outside size. Jones throws the ball with great touch into the back corners of the endzone. A big target for him in there would pay huge dividends I think. That looked to me like a major strength of his.
RE: Accurate. Makes the right throws.  
Danny80 : 4/26/2019 12:13 am : link
In comment 14407927 kelsto811 said:
Quote:
Perfect mechanics. Tough runner and competitor.

Most of all. he's going to represent your NYG for the next decade. His road ahead looks like it will be as tough as Eli's. Another underdog you can root for and watch prove people wrong.


Eli was an underdog?? In what world? He was the consensus #1 pick in the draft who the giants traded part of their draft and the next for in order to get him. Eli was never an underdog until later in his career when he (naturally) lost a bit. It's no knock on Eli that he's a human being whose physical skills naturally atrophy after not missing a single football game for 14 seasons. It's just life.
RE: RE: He's tough as nails.  
Mr. Bungle : 4/26/2019 12:16 am : link
In comment 14407991 Since1965 said:
Quote:
In comment 14407926 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


He's a hard worker.

He's got great touch on his passes.

He's the most mobile Giants QB you've ever seen.

He doesn't turn the ball over.

He's got great size for the pro position.

He won't embarrass the organization.


"He's the most mobile Giants QB you've ever seen. Uh..... Gary Wood and Fran Tarkenton.

SFNCIPAGiantsFan isn't old enough for them.
RE: RE: RE: I thought Jones was the best QB in this class  
Mr. Bungle : 4/26/2019 12:17 am : link
In comment 14408506 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14408490 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 14408463 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Highest upside.



If you have another kid and it's a boy, I take it Daniel will be the name? ;)



It's funny you say that...I just found out today I'm having another boy, no shit.

Congrats!
Todd McShay  
Carl in CT : 4/26/2019 12:18 am : link
Never be more than a backup. Wow.
RE: RE: RE: I thought Jones was the best QB in this class  
christian : 4/26/2019 12:27 am : link
In comment 14408506 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14408490 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 14408463 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Highest upside.



If you have another kid and it's a boy, I take it Daniel will be the name? ;)



It's funny you say that...I just found out today I'm having another boy, no shit.


Congrats dude!
I never wrote much on here about Jones  
.McL. : 4/26/2019 12:42 am : link
Because for me he was never a consideration...
I have crapped all over Herbert for his lack of ability to see the field nad for poor decision making.

The problem for me, is Jones seemd to be worse than Herbert in that department, and that is just killer for a QB therese days. They have to be able to process the field faster than ever, and make good decisions quickly. I just didn't see that in Jones. He looks the part, does some nice things at times, but his decision making is rough, and I am not sure how coachable that is at this point.

He is a Giant now, and we all have to hope for the best.
RE: One of my best friends son...is one of Jones best friends  
cosmicj : 4/26/2019 1:26 am : link
In comment 14407885 George from PA said:
Quote:
Who knew????

My buddy (the entire family is die hard Giants fans, like me) says...he actually think he is more Peyton then Eli. The kid refuses to fail. Brighter then everyone. Works harder then everyone.

Now, He feels....it would have been so much better at 17, instead of 6. As no one else was chasing him.

My buddy son spent last weekend at Duke with him

This post is remarkable. George- I would start being pretty careful about what you post on BBI. You’re likely to start hearing scraps of inside info beyond what the press hears.
One thing worth mentioning is that Jones is young.  
cosmicj : 4/26/2019 1:31 am : link
He’s 21 and will turn 22 next month. I’m disappointed in the pick but drafting is about projecting and there is the possibility that he can develop athletically (throwing) in a significant way based on his age.
'Please sell me on this pick'...  
Torrag : 4/26/2019 1:32 am : link
Only Jones can do that now...and you'll have to watch for a few years to have closure.
One thing Peyton had over Eli  
Jim in Forest Hills : 4/26/2019 2:58 am : link
Was that he was willing to be the asshole and hold people accountable all the time. I hope Jones brings that with him as well.
I couldn’t imagine  
darren in pdx : 4/26/2019 3:07 am : link
being a Cards fan. One of my co-workers in LA is one. Spending a #10 and then a #1 on QB’s two years in a row..and looking like you will only get peanuts back for one of them, or hold onto them and cause yourself an instant QB controversy.
NCAA rules and regulations dicate  
BigBlueCane : 4/26/2019 4:45 am : link
that coaches have very limited time to actually coach their players so unless its Bama or similar, where the rules don't matter...

most college schemes are going to be fairly easy to understand and grasp.

And when you don't have any help (read: talent) on offense, its very easy to over-compensate and try to play perfect which results in worse outcomes.
We have  
Les in TO : 4/26/2019 6:06 am : link
A good track record taking 6 foot 5 Duke QBs in the first round
RE: RE: RE: RE: Gil Brandt says  
Johnny5 : 4/26/2019 9:58 am : link
In comment 14408410 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14408193 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


In comment 14408152 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


In comment 14407906 gidiefor said:


Quote:


Jones reminds him of Peyton Manning and that their skill set and college stats are eerily similar



Peyton Manning was one of the greatest college QBs of all-time. He was presumed to be the #1 pick in the draft if he came out as a Junior and was as Senior.

Peyton had 10,060 yds passing and 78 TD with 27 INT with a 147 rating in his soph-senior years (34 starts)

Jones has 8201 passing with 52 TD with 29 INT and a 122 rating in his soph-Senior tears. (36 starts)

To sum up the difference, Peyton had 1,859 more pass yards with 26 more TD and 2 less INT in 2 less games.

Jones threw for 2659 yards and 22 TD this year so the difference is nearly a full season of Jones to make it up in stats.

Or

Peyton avg 296 yds per game to Jones 228 yds per game
Peyton avg 2.3 TDs per game to Jones 1.45 TD per game
Peyton had .79 INT per game to Jones .80 INT per game



Pretty sure that the mid 90's Vols were a slightly better overall team than Duke.



I’m sorry but did the post not say “stats eeerily similar”?

Yep I was just adding that for emphasis
RE: He’s fucking horrible  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/26/2019 3:07 pm : link
In comment 14407829 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
Sorry there is no sugar coating it. Will go down as the worst pick and biggest reach in franchise history. Taking a day 3 guy at 6 overall. Doesn’t get any worse. Fire gettleman!

Josh's annual post-draft meltdown has begun!
Still pretty lukewarm  
Kyle in NY : 4/26/2019 3:13 pm : link
on the pick but one thing I absolutely like about him is the size/mobility combination. He is not a statue back there, saw more than a few examples of him breaking away on runs in the secondary or just showing good movement in the pocket.

Really needed that in our next QB, somebody with an ability to extend plays if necessary. He certainly does that better than Haskins can, and I'm a noted fan of Haskins.
Josh in the City  
Ryan in Albany : 4/26/2019 3:22 pm : link
would be the first poster I block if that feature existed here.

What a bag of cramps.
RE: RE: He’s fucking horrible  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/26/2019 3:29 pm : link
In comment 14407873 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14407829 Josh in the City said:


Quote:


Sorry there is no sugar coating it. Will go down as the worst pick and biggest reach in franchise history. Taking a day 3 guy at 6 overall. Doesn’t get any worse. Fire gettleman!



LOL. 365 more days of this?
We didn't take your guy!! Fire everyone!!!

365? It's been multiple years of the same shit from Josh during/after every draft. What makes you think it's going to stop next year?

The real bright side is that we're closer to it being 365 days until Josh's next tantrum. At least we get a respite for almost a year.
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