I'm not telling people "like what the Giants do, or get lost!"
You don't have to like it. Hell, I didn't and don't... we passed on Allen who was a "run to the podium" guy for me and even though I had a feeling they really liked Jones, I still didn't expect him to be taken @ 6. I figured we'd go best defensive player and then move up for the QB.
But, here's the thing...
If you really are convinced this is the guy you want, then you don't play games. You don't hang out for 11 picks and hope he's still there when you pick.
And you also risk not being able to find the right trade up partner if you punt on him @ 6.
I'm not a Jones guy, I haven't been... I've posted several times about how his ceiling seems too low to draft @ 6, I worry that he can't zip the ball outside the hashes, I worry about his deep ball accuracy.
But on the flip side...
Beckham is gone now. This thing is going to go through Barkley. He's the centerpiece of this offense - no doubt about it. So, what we need to do is build a front that can block. we need to be able to execute short/intermediate, and we need to get Barkley the ball in space. We can do these things with Jones.
He's going to spend a year (or a good portion of it) learning from Eli, I think this is a good situation for him and I think he's a good fit for Pat Shurmur. We're probably going to see a healthy dose of RPO with Jones and he actually does move fairly well. No one will confuse him with Murray, but he's much more mobile than Eli is at this point.
I'm not saying anyone has to like it, but I don't understand all of the "fire Gettleman" and hysteric takes over how bad this is.
We don't know anything yet. It's actually not out of the question that the guy actually pans out. There are things he does really well, and he might be a great fit for the offense we're going to run.
For better or worse, this is the guy. So, we can get behind him and hope he pans out, or we can just spend the next however many months cursing Dave Gettleman over it. The latter doesn't seem productive.
If you're pissed off, maybe sleep on it and see how you feel tomorrow.
He had terrible WR's, his blocking was bad. He had an awful team around him. He's tough to evaluate. I watched as much of him as I could and still couldn't get a great feel for him because his team was so crappy.
Give the guy a chance. If he sucks, then kill Gettleman for it. Gettleman probably won't survive it if Jones busts anyway. But this stuff takes a little time to evaluate. All of these opinions posted with such certainty about how bad it is and how much he sucks... I just don't get that.
Flame away...
But on the flip side...
But on the flip side...
Brady didn't have a strong arm coming out and he did just fine. Now in not saying he's going to be Brady.
I'm just saying give the guys chance. Cutcliffe feels he's going to get MUCH better. Says that he reminds him of Peyton in many areas. But he did mention they don't have the same arm mechanics and such.
What I think hasn’t been mentioned enough, this is the end of Eli. All of the quotes about Eli still being able to play at a high level are questionable, they just took a QB with the 6th pick in the draft. I don’t care how close Eli is to the Duke program/Jones, this has to be a rough night for him.
Sean, Eli is an adult. He has earned $Millions. He will retire gracefully, with a smile. Besides, if all the
naysayers are even a little bit correct about Jones Eli
may even finish the season under center. I believe he has a lot left in the tank.
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In comment 14408084 Sean said:
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Taking him at 6 is ballsy. I think of the Gettleman quote, “no guts, no glory.”
What I think hasn’t been mentioned enough, this is the end of Eli. All of the quotes about Eli still being able to play at a high level are questionable, they just took a QB with the 6th pick in the draft. I don’t care how close Eli is to the Duke program/Jones, this has to be a rough night for him.
He expected it - I'm sure he knew and knows.
I did have a moment the other day though where it kind of hit me that life without Eli is very close.
And no matter how much we've all argued over him these last few years... it's still Eli Manning.
And it's going to be really strange when he's not under center anymore. I don't think it's going to hit a lot of fans here until it actually happens.
I'm not clinging onto him anymore in hopes that he'll regain his former glory... but the idea of Eli no longer being the Giants QB is sort of sobering. But.. it's time.
Jones will have a great guy to learn from.
It's all good. We can just slap a Manning nameplate on Jones's jersey, and no one will know the difference. That is, after all, why we drafted him. I have never seen such epic stupidity.
Another poster who is unwilling to realize that he may, possibly be wrong but can't acknowledge that and would rather call everyone else idiots.
Read my post again. I wanted Allen.
But some of these reactions are really childish and unbecoming.
I don't understand how people already KNOW that Jones is going to suck, we took the wrong guy, the future is bleak, etc...
I really don't.
Every Giants fan will want him to take the league by storm when he plays a la Mahomes but it just seems doubtful. I would love to look back five years from now and laugh at mine and all of our reactions to the draft pick announcement due to how good he really ended up being. But again, it just seems doubtful. We'll see though.
I guess those are positive.
It took some people even longer than that...
After the Minnesota game in 2007, half of the fanbase literally wanted Lorenzen to take over.
It doesn't take a super-seasoned NFL scout to see Jones's limitations.
And you heard one of the reasons why they took Jones - because he can supposedly handle NY.
I mean, are you f-ckin kidding me?!? That's a criteria? Give me the talent first and I'll get a good PR coach to handle big bad, scary NY.
So that's the Jones plus-plus "skill" - he'll be good with the NY spotlight.
How insane...
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"The team is expected to improve over 2018, so they will not have such a high pick(hopefully a late pick). So, they needed to pick a successor to Eli this year".
If they considered Jones as the best fit for the NYG system they had to pick him #6, not watch someone else take him # 7-16.
I hope he turns out to be a better fit than Rosen. Obviously Gettleman and Shurmur think that he is.
Them world is full of "Experts"!
What makes you think they will improve over last year?
I guess you think they'll get first crack at next year's best QB. Dream on.
Every Giants fan will want him to take the league by storm when he plays a la Mahomes but it just seems doubtful. I would love to look back five years from now and laugh at mine and all of our reactions to the draft pick announcement due to how good he really ended up being. But again, it just seems doubtful. We'll see though.
I understand the value argument - but nothing is more valuable than a good QB in this league. Maybe Jones will be that - maybe he won't.
But - I think what happens is that we look at draft rankings for months and months and months to the point where we start to just associate every player with their draft ranking.
If you were to go back and do redrafts of any draft after about 5 years or so, every single one would get completely reshuffled.
Teams wonder how the hell they missed on Alvin Kamara or didn't even think to draft Phillip Lindsay. People still don't understand how Aaron Rodgers got drafted after Alex Smith.
We become hardwired to just assume that every guy is going to basically chalk their projection - and they're so hard to project because what they did in college is only half the battle.
Of course, I don't expect people to not talk about Jones at all. It's a huge deal and this is going to define Gettleman's legacy here - way more than Barkley.
Give the guy a chance before burying him is all I'm saying.
I don't care if your WR's are arthritic sloths wearing oven gloves, it's problematic when you've got a career completion under 60% in a scheme designed to make completions.
But ultimately, if I'm picking a guy in the top 10 without top tier physical gifts, I'm either wanting someone absurdly accurate or someone who's had a good track record of going through NFL style reads. Jones hasn't got either.
It doesn't take a super-seasoned NFL scout to see Jones's limitations.
And you heard one of the reasons why they took Jones - because he can supposedly handle NY.
I mean, are you f-ckin kidding me?!? That's a criteria? Give me the talent first and I'll get a good PR coach to handle big bad, scary NY.
So that's the Jones plus-plus "skill" - he'll be good with the NY spotlight.
How insane...
You've seen me post about his limitations a billion times - I've seen them, I know what they are.
But he's not a finished product. He can get better.
He was hard to evaluate - he really was. His team fucking sucked. So many drops. So much poor blocking.
I don't think they took Jones just because he can handle NY.
They think he's legitimate potential heir to Eli - they would not have drafted him there for any other reason.
Will they be right? I have no idea. But I have a hard time just assuming they're throwing darts in the dark and there's just no rhyme or reason to what they're doing.
They really like the guy. We might not, but I'm not going to write him off before he even sees the field. A lot of people here are already doing that and I think that's silly.
They'll then be following the AS model.
It's not that Jones sucks. It's that there is nothing special about him to justify passing on Allen in order to pick him. All of Gettleman's blather about not forcing a pick for a QB and then he picks this guy #6 overall? Yeah, I'm not a scout, but the guy who IS a professional scout here, Sy, said his best comp is Ryan Tannehill, and that's supposed to inspire confidence?
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Come one, arc. You watch enough college football.
It doesn't take a super-seasoned NFL scout to see Jones's limitations.
And you heard one of the reasons why they took Jones - because he can supposedly handle NY.
I mean, are you f-ckin kidding me?!? That's a criteria? Give me the talent first and I'll get a good PR coach to handle big bad, scary NY.
So that's the Jones plus-plus "skill" - he'll be good with the NY spotlight.
How insane...
You've seen me post about his limitations a billion times - I've seen them, I know what they are.
But he's not a finished product. He can get better.
He was hard to evaluate - he really was. His team fucking sucked. So many drops. So much poor blocking.
I don't think they took Jones just because he can handle NY.
They think he's legitimate potential heir to Eli - they would not have drafted him there for any other reason.
Will they be right? I have no idea. But I have a hard time just assuming they're throwing darts in the dark and there's just no rhyme or reason to what they're doing.
They really like the guy. We might not, but I'm not going to write him off before he even sees the field. A lot of people here are already doing that and I think that's silly.
yes.. I have said it several times and I will repeat it here. This is what you want your GM to do. You want him to have a conviction about a QB and then go out and make sure they get him. Make sure nobody scoops you for him. Of course if he is a bust, DG will lose his job, and it will go down as one of the greatest busts in giants draft history.
I find it fucking hilarious that fans talk about “their boards”
Exactly. I believe he shouldn't have been picked but if he's The Man after Eli then we have to root for Jones to be as successful as possible
Allen I was giddy he fell but if we got our QB it will all
work out period .We got two defensive studs I suspect
we will move up again to pick up an O-line player or
a pass rusher .
It's even harder to shake the feeling that this franchise is completely lost. It was lost when Coughlin was still here. It was lost when Reese had his last shot. And it sure as shit still feels lost with Gettleman. Telegraphing their interest in Jones for weeks before the draft. Re-signing Beckham only to trade him a year later and take a massive cap hit. Pissing away good money on mediocre (at best) FAs.
Nothing this team has done since 2012 inspires even the least bit of confidence. So give Jones a shot? Sure. Have anything but the most managed expectations that the Giants might not be out of playoff contention by the end of October? Probably not.
Lost in all the sauce tn, Go Terps drops in AND he is pleased. I like it!
Easy to throw darts at the pick from the cheap seats, but it’s a career defining pick for Gettleman, he’s staking his reputation on it. Will sure be interesting to see how it plays out
If that mix shook out to be another Tim Tebow - bingo! We just drafted him.
It's like what George Bernard Shaw said to the gorgeous actress in one of his plays that declared she wanted to marry him because she imagines the possibilities for a child with his brains and her looks...
"What if the child turns out exactly the opposite?" Shaw supposedly replied.
Many had Lock earmarked for the Broncos. Yet, rather than take him when he was available, Denver instead moved out of their spot.
Jones might be terrible for all I know, but the sense I am getting is that there’s a fair disconnect between the way scouts viewed him and the way the media viewed him - with the latter being the much “louder” sentiment.
There are scouts and people out there who think Jones is the goods. And just because it’s not the prevailing opinion, that doesn’t mean they’re wrong.
I just wish people would stop screaming and listening to themselves rant for like 2 minutes and consider that maybe their view of Jones is skewed/inaccurate, or will at least admit that he may well succeed here even if you’d be willing to bet against that.
Just seeing the way so many people (not just here) are trashing this kid makes me want to pull for him even more.
One last thought - I believe that the direction the NFL has moved has actually made the QB transition easier and I think more drafted QB’s with specific skills can succeed in this landscape where they probably would not have 10-20 years ago. The league has changed a lot.
Like I’ve always said - Pat Shurmur could wind up being the wrong coach, but if there is something I trust him on, it is the QB position and I do think he knows what’s he’s looking at and can coach this guy to get the most out of him.
Be angry, be annoyed - everyone has that right as a fan. Jones wasn’t my favorite QB in this draft - heck, wasn’t even number 2...or 3! But I can see what the Giants like and they had the balls to do this knowing they’d probably get crushed for it. I wanted to see some conviction here. Well, Gettleman sure gave me that much.
We’ll see if he was right.
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But I'm rooting for him. I hope he's a mix of Brady, Montana and Jesus
If that mix shook out to be another Tim Tebow - bingo! We just drafted him.
It's like what George Bernard Shaw said to the gorgeous actress in one of his plays that declared she wanted to marry him because she imagines the possibilities for a child with his brains and her looks...
"What if the child turns out exactly the opposite?" Shaw supposedly replied.
In what way is Jones remotely similar to Tebow? He's as similar to a disinterested waiter serving overcooked steak as he is to Tebow.
The team needs someone to come in and evaluate the way they communicate and strategize.
Because the Getts can see talent, and loves his linesmen. This is endemic and will continue after The Getts is gone, if that's what transpires.
The team needs someone to come in and evaluate the way they communicate and strategize.
Because the Getts can see talent, and loves his linesmen. This is endemic and will continue after The Getts is gone, if that's what transpires.
"The Getts"?
For better or worse, this is the guy. So, we can get behind him and hope he pans out, or we can just spend the next however many months cursing Dave Gettleman over it. The latter doesn't seem productive.
There are still some bitching about Barkley over a QB, so no, don’t expect that to happen. I’m going to make an even greater effort this year to totally avoid those posters. Including you, bw Central..:)
Reminds me of Lego Batman....
"It's me, the Jokes!"
"Uh, no one calls you that."
"Sure they do!"
It's not that Jones sucks. It's that there is nothing special about him to justify passing on Allen in order to pick him. All of Gettleman's blather about not forcing a pick for a QB and then he picks this guy #6 overall?
Yeah, that's ultimately the part that's... not a good look.
It only seems forced because it didn't line up with the consensus.
Like I said earlier - I think after so many weeks/months of looking at draft rankings and all of these boards, etc.. people just start to assume that pre-draft rankings accurately project and reflect the value of each player.
So, when picks stray far from that, it turns into "oh man, they have no idea what they're doing!" - but, team boards are probably quite a bit different than what we see from the Mel Kiper and Todd McShay's of the world.