1. We bash athletes who are assholes (Greg Hardy, Kareem Hunt, Tyreke Hill). Jones is as clean as they come.
2. We criticize Eli because he is immobile. For all intents and purposes we got one of the more athletic QBs in awhile who is also 6’5.
3. We mock Jones cause he shows a lot of qualities with his persona that Eli has. Almost as if that’s a bad thing?
4. We are complaining about Jones’ arm strength yet Eli never had a howlitzer, neither do the following QBs.... Watson, Peyton, Eli, Rivers, Ryan... etc. You know who had strong arms? Cutler, George, Russell.
5. The majority of BBI has wanted to move on from eli for years, now that we have... the majority still can’t stop bitching.
Listen, I wanted Josh Allen too. I am in the molds of building a team around the QB rather than vice versa. And I was as upset when we didn’t take Allen. But we have a new franchise guy who looks to be very easy to root for in the future. But reading BBI, this guy will be shit on from the get go for no reason.
Maybe he’s more like Eli than we ever imagined....
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In comment 14409991 Eric on Li said:
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It is baffling to me that the loudest who claimed they were stupid last year for passing on a QB (any QB!) for Barkley, are now in many cases the loudest to claim they are stupid for passing on lesser players than Barkley for this 1 particular QB. Yet many would have been fine with the guy who fell to 15 and got passed over by more than 1 team who was looking at QB's. Or the guy who hasn't been drafted yet. Or a 25 year old projected to go in round 3 with a weaker arm? That would have been great value!
Again, why do people who wanted a new QB have to be happy with this pick?
Nobody needs to be happy about anything, but logic would dictate that people who thought QB was a desperate need would at least be happy they addressed the need. I personally don't love Baker for example, but I know they needed a CB so if they thought he was the best let's see how their evaluation turns out. They certainly invested a lot more into their evaluation than I did so I could be wrong.
Not if they felt they took the wrong QB. Addressing the need doesn’t matter if the potentially blew it.
After the pick
Bbi- wtf you doing
That about right
You just have to hope those who feel compelled to trust what very well appears to be an incompetent front office don't have to wait as long for vindication as the Warriors fans did.
I even joked a few days ago that BBI would go nuts if we drafted Jones at #6 with one of the "premium" defensive players there.
I said it in February. Something to the effect of, imagine when we pick Jones at 6.
It just made too much sense.
You just have to hope those who feel compelled to trust what very well appears to be an incompetent front office don't have to wait as long for vindication as the Warriors fans did.
Should we trust your opinion then over Gettlemans? What has Gettleman done that has been wrong so far.
Let me guess.... signing stewart and omameh - and cutting one of them after he saw his mistake? What success rate does a GM need to have to be deemed incompetent?
"We didn't sign OBJ to trade him."- trades him
"We take BPA at the draft, don't reach for players that's fatal philosophy."
I find it very hard to believe that Daniel Jones was the sixth best available overall prospect on the board which means the Giants reached a day after they said they won't do that.
It doesn't instill confidence or trust in the plan the front office has and DG doesn't have enough of a track record in his GM stint with the Giants yet to trust his decision making process.
I know people complained in the past about telegraphing picks, but there is a way to communicate with out telegraphing the pick and without downright lying. You keep lying to the media, they are going to be out for blood
I'm cautiously optimistic based on his past roles evaluating talent, but this pick need to be a home run.
I can't believe people care about this stuff.
What about Deshaun Watson?
If you don't think Wilson doesn't have a great arm, and are going to boil the comparison down to one day throwing indoors on a gun, then you are very naive.
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than Jones at the combine. And Rivers doesnt have a big arm.
What about Deshaun Watson?
If you don't think Wilson doesn't have a great arm, and are going to boil the comparison down to one day throwing indoors on a gun, then you are very naive.
Yeah, I’m the naive one.
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On the intermediate and deep throws. It's so far off from what you normally see from a top prospect.
But I get it, Gettleman is a genius.
Jones shits the bed in 2020, the Giants get the #1 overall pick in 2021, and get Sunshine Lawrence. He's playing the long game and we are all too blind to see it!
Do your homework. Seriously, do your homework than opine all you want to. Kirwan (he thought it was an uncanny amount) and others who know more than we do, could not believe the inordinate amount of DROPPED PASSES Jones had to endure at Duke. That factors in big time when you evaluate accuracy, don’t you think?
So, your saying that the talent evaluators aren't smart enough to look at where the passes are going versus whether they are caught or not? Come on. Let's face it. The Giants were in the minority on this guy. Last time that was the case, we drafted Ereck Flowers. Before that, Eli Apple.
Not your best effort.
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Scott Barrett
@ScottBarrettDFB
1) Last season, among all 64 Power-5 teams, Duke ranked 20th in passing grade, 7th-worst in receiving grade, and 2nd-worst in pass-blocking grade.
2) Last season Jones' receivers dropped 36 of his passes, which ranked third-worst in the Power-5. No QB lost more yards in air on dropped passes last year (525, 100+ more than the next-closest QB.)
3) Last season, among all Combine-invite QBs, Jones was pressured on 25.2% of his dropbacks (most), despite having the shortest time to throw on average (2.37s).
For perspective, Murray was pressured on only 13.2% of his dropbacks while averaging 3.06 seconds to throw.
Cant wait for ajr to tell me that this shit doesnt matter.
Jones adjusted completion percentage was 44%, which isn’t great.
Adjusted completion percentage:
"...credits passers for on-target throws that are dropped by receivers, but also removes passes that are thrown away (i.e. not targeting any receiver), batted at the line of scrimmage, spiked or even passes thrown when the quarterback was hit as he threw."
Adjusted completion percentage:
"...credits passers for on-target throws that are dropped by receivers, but also removes passes that are thrown away (i.e. not targeting any receiver), batted at the line of scrimmage, spiked or even passes thrown when the quarterback was hit as he threw."
Oh goodie. More formuals.
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Not your best effort.
It’s an observation that doesn’t require any effort at all.
It’s an observation that doesn’t require any effort at all.
We can tell..
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Adjusted completion percentage:
"...credits passers for on-target throws that are dropped by receivers, but also removes passes that are thrown away (i.e. not targeting any receiver), batted at the line of scrimmage, spiked or even passes thrown when the quarterback was hit as he threw."
Oh goodie. More formuals.
Only stats that matter are the ones that back your opinion. Got it.
Only stats that matter are the ones that back your opinion. Got it.
Funny, I was thinking the same about you. Heres a hint of something. When you use stats that dont include personnel - they have very little meaning.
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Only stats that matter are the ones that back your opinion. Got it.
Funny, I was thinking the same about you. Heres a hint of something. When you use stats that dont include personnel - they have very little meaning.
I’m still not sure how using stats that factor in his supporting cast don’t matter.
It actually supports your argument as his normal deep completion percentage was 25%. It also shows that he’s still not good at.
I’m still not sure how using stats that factor in his supporting cast don’t matter.
It actually supports your argument as his normal deep completion percentage was 25%. It also shows that he’s still not good at.
No what it doesnt do is tell the whole story. How often did he miss wide open guys? How many times were the well covered? How many times was he pressured or hell even have a clean pocket.
Context is important. If there is video evidence supported by stats that Jones missed 80% of open receivers that were open 20 yards plus downfield, then you catch my interest.
Plugging numbers in doesnt nor will it ever do it for me. Who knows with better personnel maybe that number jumps up? Maybe with better protection it jumps too.
Stats without context are meaningless. And thats what a lot of advanced stats are.
At least be consistent
With QBs, none of that shit matters. It only matters if the guy can make a play in an actual NFL game.
There's plenty of guys with incredible arms who sucked in the NFL. There's plenty of guys with incredible production in college who sucked in the NFL. There's plenty of guys who had ideal height, hand size and athleticism who sucked in the NFL. You can't look at a spreadsheet and know how this is going to turn out. You can't look at his scouting report and know how this is going to turn out. They may help you decide who to pick but Unlike Dexter Lawrence, who I think everyone agrees will be a successful pro, it's really hard to judge if a QB can play in the NFL until he gets the chance.
Gettlemen picked his guy. This is his Giants legacy one way or the other. We can't know how this will end. We won't even learn anything until the kid has the ball in his hand in the 4th quarter down a score. Then we will find out if he's an NFL QB or not. The rest of the stuff on these threads is noise.
At least be consistent
And it went to go to show that personnel factors into QB play, which is why I posted it. You and others have flat out stated that he is inaccurate. Well guess what drops is a stat that is always on the low end because many catchable arent deemed as drops - but are plays receivers usually make.
I disagree with this. Jones had the highest adjusted completion percentage on deep passes in the entire NCAA. Ahead of both Tua & Drew Lock. It's not his fault his WRs can't catch.
Also due to dropped passes he lost 525 air yards. Which is the most in college football by 100+ yards.
The heavy majority are fans with amateur understanding who rely on what mock drafts and talking heads say and perhaps a handful of games they caught of a player while watching as a casual fan.
And two of those five, the two contributors who are actual football scouts, were pretty lukewarm on Jones.
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That stated the number of drops with none of that context and said “I can’t wait for ajr to say these don’t matter”
At least be consistent
And it went to go to show that personnel factors into QB play, which is why I posted it. You and others have flat out stated that he is inaccurate. Well guess what drops is a stat that is always on the low end because many catchable arent deemed as drops - but are plays receivers usually make.
To play your game how many of those drops were because the player was well covered?
Adjusted completion percentage takes out all the stuff a QB can’t control and sure guys could be well covered but that’s not going to cause a 15% jump in adjusted completion percentage.
I’d pull his expected completion percentage which has proven to be a predictor of college to NFL success but it’s probably not worth the time.
To play your game how many of those drops were because the player was well covered?
Adjusted completion percentage takes out all the stuff a QB can’t control and sure guys could be well covered but that’s not going to cause a 15% jump in adjusted completion percentage.
I’d pull his expected completion percentage which has proven to be a predictor of college to NFL success but it’s probably not worth the time.
Well being that Duke has no draftable players - how many times do you think guys were running open for the majority of those incompletions?
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Reminds of following the Warriors forums a bit in the 90s and 2000s, where you'd see people defending moves like trading Vince Carter for Antawn Jamison or drafting Mike Funleavey over Amare Stoudemire.
You just have to hope those who feel compelled to trust what very well appears to be an incompetent front office don't have to wait as long for vindication as the Warriors fans did.
Should we trust your opinion then over Gettlemans? What has Gettleman done that has been wrong so far.
That's exactly what I mean. That's exactly the sort of argument the optimistic Warriors fans would make. And the Warriors sure gave them a lot of opportunities to make them!
That's exactly what I mean. That's exactly the sort of argument the optimistic Warriors fans would make. And the Warriors sure gave them a lot of opportunities to make them!
But you provided no information on the questions I asked - which is a staple of yours and BBI. See how the game is played?
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That's exactly what I mean. That's exactly the sort of argument the optimistic Warriors fans would make. And the Warriors sure gave them a lot of opportunities to make them!
But you provided no information on the questions I asked - which is a staple of yours and BBI. See how the game is played?
That's because I dismissed your questions as rhetorical and knew jerk.
At the end of five years, I'm fairly sure Gettleman will either have made enough mistakes to have justified a firing, or will have been given the opportunity to draft another stud QB high on account of a few miserable seasons he helped to precipitate. There are poorly run teams in the NFL. If we aren't one of them, who is?
He should have them contending by now!
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In the NFL for awhile. Jones wasn’t good at in college. The arm strength isn’t an issue, it’s the ability to play the position.
I disagree with this. Jones had the highest adjusted completion percentage on deep passes in the entire NCAA. Ahead of both Tua & Drew Lock. It's not his fault his WRs can't catch.
Also due to dropped passes he lost 525 air yards. Which is the most in college football by 100+ yards.
That same site called him a third round talent. Deep passes are one thing. The rest of his game is mediocre.
Likely to be 'overdrafted.' Whoops - ( New Window )
seriously, I would never suggest I am qualified to judge college players but by pretty much every account, this is a bad pick in the sense that D Jones is not worthy of being picked #6... and that matters.
I predict that when history is written on all of this, the narrative will correctly be that the Giants really screwed up the Eli transition. Start with wasting his later years, then the Geno Webb start, followed by keeping him too long and then drafting a QB that, on the surface, seems to have been chosen in large part b/c of his connection to the Mannings.
It is all ham-handed and unfortunately Jones will have to manage through it. Maybe everyone else is wrong and DG is a genius but I wouldn't bet on it.
The Giants used a premium pick on what is most likely a middling QB. What a shame.
seriously, I would never suggest I am qualified to judge college players but by pretty much every account, this is a bad pick in the sense that D Jones is not worthy of being picked #6... and that matters.
I predict that when history is written on all of this, the narrative will correctly be that the Giants really screwed up the Eli transition. Start with wasting his later years, then the Geno Webb start, followed by keeping him too long and then drafting a QB that, on the surface, seems to have been chosen in large part b/c of his connection to the Mannings.
It is all ham-handed and unfortunately Jones will have to manage through it. Maybe everyone else is wrong and DG is a genius but I wouldn't bet on it.
The Giants used a premium pick on what is most likely a middling QB. What a shame.
I quoted tweets from a guy that did research on a player that I know very little about. If you want to dispute them or just go out and say he is not worthy of the pic and be lazy - thats your choice.
And for anyone who says he wasnt worth the pick 6 is just too funny to me. What if he plays 12 years wins a super bowl throws for over 40,000 yards and over 300 TDs...
Is he still not worth it? Making judgements like this keeps ESPN and fox sports in business.
And for anyone who says he wasnt worth the pick 6 is just too funny to me. What if he plays 12 years wins a super bowl throws for over 40,000 yards and over 300 TDs...
If you're willing, I'll take that bet.
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And for anyone who says he wasnt worth the pick 6 is just too funny to me. What if he plays 12 years wins a super bowl throws for over 40,000 yards and over 300 TDs...
If you're willing, I'll take that bet.
How about you tell me what would it take for him to be worthy of the pick? I mean people keeping preaching value, value, value.... but is there a definitive value on value?
I am just telling you I don't think that will be the case.
sometimes these things are fairly simple and the one guy in the room who sees what no one else does is actually the one who is wrong.
The guys who told us "you should never reach for a player" reached for a player.
Now we wait, root like hell and see it all plays out...
Now we wait, root like hell and see it all plays out...
I am glad we are. I am not sure everyone else here will.
This 100%. He's not a great QB, period. You can analyze it all you want, he wasn't great in college. Eli was great in college. None of your other comments matter to me after that.
I am just telling you I don't think that will be the case.
sometimes these things are fairly simple and the one guy in the room who sees what no one else does is actually the one who is wrong.
The guys who told us "you should never reach for a player" reached for a player.
Now we wait, root like hell and see it all plays out...
I'm with ya-- going to root like hell -- hoping in near future we can put out a contending team but it won;t be in 2019 season and that is certainly not Jones's fault.
WHat gets me is that DG can say anything he wants and some here hold him accountable for NOTHING bad. Only praise him for anything good.