1. We bash athletes who are assholes (Greg Hardy, Kareem Hunt, Tyreke Hill). Jones is as clean as they come.
2. We criticize Eli because he is immobile. For all intents and purposes we got one of the more athletic QBs in awhile who is also 6’5.
3. We mock Jones cause he shows a lot of qualities with his persona that Eli has. Almost as if that’s a bad thing?
4. We are complaining about Jones’ arm strength yet Eli never had a howlitzer, neither do the following QBs.... Watson, Peyton, Eli, Rivers, Ryan... etc. You know who had strong arms? Cutler, George, Russell.
5. The majority of BBI has wanted to move on from eli for years, now that we have... the majority still can’t stop bitching.
Listen, I wanted Josh Allen too. I am in the molds of building a team around the QB rather than vice versa. And I was as upset when we didn’t take Allen. But we have a new franchise guy who looks to be very easy to root for in the future. But reading BBI, this guy will be shit on from the get go for no reason.
Maybe he’s more like Eli than we ever imagined....
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In comment 14409232 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 14409211 ajr2456 said:
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In the NFL for awhile. Jones wasn’t good at in college. The arm strength isn’t an issue, it’s the ability to play the position.
And he played for a really bad team. So no shot that had an effect, right? And incase you've been sleeping through the last year, we are building a team that wants to dominate time of possession. Jones excels at everything you want in the short and intermediate game.
But hey, you bitched at me last week about how Gettelman doesn't like to invest in CB's so I guess I can learn a thing or two from you.
One pick doesn’t buck a trend.
Keep blaming Jones’ faults on his teammates, it really will be a smooth transition from Eli.
No, the trend was bucked when we traded for a Safety who can cover, then traded up for a top CB. Your analysis stinks, own it.
As for Jones, he's got work to do. His poor cast didn't help him, is this arguable? How about Evans helping Manziel look better, does it not work in reverse?
And let’s see what happens when Gettleman has to pay Peppers. I’ll take multiple off seasons of data over one.
And Mansfield didn’t go 6th, there were the same amount of people saying Manziel wouldn’t be good in the NFL as there were Jones.
I’m sure they would have preferred to get Jones at 17 and use the 6 pick on Allen or whoever fell to them. I think the problem was they couldn’t find a partner to trade up from 17 to get ahead of the 3-4 other teams who also might have taken a QB.
I look at it this way. They had a bonus pick and used it on a QB.
There, you said it. Need. This was a need pick, not a BPA pick. Unlike last year
But I get it, Gettleman is a genius.
Jones shits the bed in 2020, the Giants get the #1 overall pick in 2021, and get Sunshine Lawrence. He's playing the long game and we are all too blind to see it!
Do your homework. Seriously, do your homework than opine all you want to. Kirwan (he thought it was an uncanny amount) and others who know more than we do, could not believe the inordinate amount of DROPPED PASSES Jones had to endure at Duke. That factors in big time when you evaluate accuracy, don’t you think?
And let’s see what happens when Gettleman has to pay Peppers. I’ll take multiple off seasons of data over one.
And Mansfield didn’t go 6th, there were the same amount of people saying Manziel wouldn’t be good in the NFL as there were Jones.
So I was right, Evans did make Manziel look better. Interesting. And there are plenty of people who think Jones will be good, they jiust don't have him pegged as Andrew Luck so I guess he will stink.
You really are a miserable dude. Not sure why I bother responding. Guys like you who don't get their draft board confirmed by reality absolutely suck to have a conversation with.
I'll worry about paying Peppers in 2021.
Unlike Haskins, every third snap he was under jail break style pressure and still navigated the pocket and delivered an accurate ball. He seemed to navigate the pocket very well more often than not.
I know the dave brown stigma exists, but I didn’t see dave brown or even tannehill, I saw a guy with a lot of talent in his game who made his team better. The fact that the duke team was even nationally ranked is a testament to him. He made his team better, which is one of the things I know I was looking for in a qb.
It’s seems he was probably gone by cincy’s pick, so he probably doesn’t last until 17. The organization has conviction on a guy and took him. If it doesn’t work out, DG will be gone, if it does they Giants are wet at the position for the next 15 years.
It’s also not as difficult to walk away from a top pick as it used to be, the Cardinals did it yesterday.
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And let’s see what happens when Gettleman has to pay Peppers. I’ll take multiple off seasons of data over one.
And Mansfield didn’t go 6th, there were the same amount of people saying Manziel wouldn’t be good in the NFL as there were Jones.
So I was right, Evans did make Manziel look better. Interesting. And there are plenty of people who think Jones will be good, they jiust don't have him pegged as Andrew Luck so I guess he will stink.
You really are a miserable dude. Not sure why I bother responding. Guys like you who don't get their draft board confirmed by reality absolutely suck to have a conversation with.
I'll worry about paying Peppers in 2021.
Yes WRs make QBs look really good in an offense where you throw down field.
I’m really not but sorry I disagree with your takes on the Giants.
Listening to NY's number 1 morning sports talk show offered the following takes.
Greg Gionnotti said with certainty that not other team would have taken Jones in the 1st round. Oh really?
He also admitted he went to check Odell Beckham's twitter feed when they made the Jones pick. Why?
The kicker was when they couldn't even get the trade package we gave to move up correct. They claimed we gave a 2 and 2 3's.
They were also referring to Gettleman's Boston accent as fake.
It's funny since the Giants have had a couple of bad years, now every guy they move on from is the second coming of Reggie White or Barry Sanders.
I think most of us did not like this QB class at all, including our own gurus Sy and Dave Te.
On top of that, our crack asshats had us all picking an edge guy, right in the wheelhouse of this Defense strong and QB weak draft.
Nothing against Jones, he might be a solid QB eventually, but I'm sorry if like the rest of BBI, I ain't buying what Dave's selling us here. At all.
He's all in on Eli, and his "winning while rebuilding" line just got blown up by this pick. Jones does nothing to help us win this year.
We also have to buy that the Giants fell in absolute gaga love with Jones over not only the rest of this weak sauce QB class but also Darnold and Rosen.
Sorry, but when the Giants and DG act like they know better then the rest of the NFL, I'm with the rest of the league.
Because he knows better,DG did not check in with SF before finalizing the OBJ deal.Add his godawful 2018 free agency performance and Kyle Lauletta are 2 more reasons I ain't buying what he's selling.
And for the Giants themselves, they too knew better then the rest of the league the last time they drafted a QB from Duke. I don't want to hear Jones isn't Dave Brown either, but too bad, we are all going to hear it alot from now on, like it or not, that narrative is built in and the media will paint us with it all day long.
Again, I am with the rest of the NFL world again. Hope I am wrong as can be, but I wouldn't bet on it.
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In comment 14409380 ajr2456 said:
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And let’s see what happens when Gettleman has to pay Peppers. I’ll take multiple off seasons of data over one.
And Mansfield didn’t go 6th, there were the same amount of people saying Manziel wouldn’t be good in the NFL as there were Jones.
So I was right, Evans did make Manziel look better. Interesting. And there are plenty of people who think Jones will be good, they jiust don't have him pegged as Andrew Luck so I guess he will stink.
You really are a miserable dude. Not sure why I bother responding. Guys like you who don't get their draft board confirmed by reality absolutely suck to have a conversation with.
I'll worry about paying Peppers in 2021.
Yes WRs make QBs look really good in an offense where you throw down field.
I’m really not but sorry I disagree with your takes on the Giants.
Disagreeing is fine. I disagree with posters all the time. You just choose to refute evidence and facts like they are nothing.
Here's a stat, Jones played 3 years at Duke, 36 total games. His WR's dropped 86 passes. Only Drew Lock had more and his completion percentage was 3 points worse.
Please tell me it doesn't matter again.
I've always been an Eli guy. I still have faith in him if he actually has an OLine. I did not think a QB from this class was a smart move. We will see.
Scott Barrett
@ScottBarrettDFB
1) Last season, among all 64 Power-5 teams, Duke ranked 20th in passing grade, 7th-worst in receiving grade, and 2nd-worst in pass-blocking grade.
2) Last season Jones' receivers dropped 36 of his passes, which ranked third-worst in the Power-5. No QB lost more yards in air on dropped passes last year (525, 100+ more than the next-closest QB.)
3) Last season, among all Combine-invite QBs, Jones was pressured on 25.2% of his dropbacks (most), despite having the shortest time to throw on average (2.37s).
For perspective, Murray was pressured on only 13.2% of his dropbacks while averaging 3.06 seconds to throw.
Cant wait for ajr to tell me that this shit doesnt matter.
Not as much now, but when we drafted Eli he easily had a plus arm. There wasn’t a throw he couldn’t make. And that was back when the league was more vertical.
Jones has virtually no plus categories except he seems to have the mindset to handle NYC. Which is beyond laughable as a criteria.
First, we passed on Darnold.
Then we passed on Rosen.
Then we drafted Lauletta.
Then we kept Eli.
Then we didn’t trade for Rosen.
Then we passed on a premium edge rusher.
Then we drafted a QB with no plus skills at #6.
This is what we get for a fake GM search that lands a GM who has never picked a franchise QB. But he’s a card carrying member of the “Giants Way”...
No see you only reply to the complaints.
I complimented the Lawrence pick. The Hill, Carter, Hernandez picks last year. The Beal pick. The Golden signing.
Seems to me that QB is the one exception to the rule and that makes sense to me. I fully buy Lawrence and Baker being at the tops of their board.
I didn't want to spend the 6 on him with Allen sitting there. I thought for sure if there was conviction on sticking to BPA they had to pass on Jones and take Allen. But they took Jones. I'll live with it. I just don't get why they didn't take Allen and then Trade up from 17 with the Bills and take Jones there. Maybe they explored that and the offer wasn't good enough pre-draft. Maybe one day we will find out.
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Scott Barrett
@ScottBarrettDFB
1) Last season, among all 64 Power-5 teams, Duke ranked 20th in passing grade, 7th-worst in receiving grade, and 2nd-worst in pass-blocking grade.
2) Last season Jones' receivers dropped 36 of his passes, which ranked third-worst in the Power-5. No QB lost more yards in air on dropped passes last year (525, 100+ more than the next-closest QB.)
3) Last season, among all Combine-invite QBs, Jones was pressured on 25.2% of his dropbacks (most), despite having the shortest time to throw on average (2.37s).
For perspective, Murray was pressured on only 13.2% of his dropbacks while averaging 3.06 seconds to throw.
Cant wait for ajr to tell me that this shit doesnt matter.
These same stats excuses were made for Josh Allen last cycle and he went on to compete barely over 50% of his passes in the NFL. Drops aren’t always the WRs fault and are an inexact stat.
The point I’ve continually made in the Jones/His cast was bad debate is that he still should have been able to show flashes of elite talent and in my opinion it wasn’t there.
It’s not like he was playing Clemson every week.
Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, huh?
Getting back to Jones, hardly anybody has mentioned Gil Brandt's assessment and dismisses him as an old senile geezer. He has been pretty dependent with his assessment of players and projecting their success in the NFL. What if he is correct? He compares him to Danny White and Peyton Manning. I have heard Mitch Trubisky also. I saw Danny White play and he wasn't too shabby. Jones had no supporting cast his entire career at Duke. He had on OLine and got decimated but got right back up. His WRs where horrible and where amoungst the leaders in the NCAA in dropped balls. People say his accuracy is not great? What if Daniel Jones played for Ohio State or Oklahoma? I bet he would have been the 1st or 2nd overall pick in this draft if he had played with better talent on his team. I also like the fact that he is mobile. Yes, he has the ability to extend plays and move around the pocket. That is what Shurmur prefers. Maybe he molds him into an elite QB. That's what we as Giant fans should be hoping for.
What I don't get are people complaining of Haskins, because he only played 1 year. The funny think is Murray played only 1 year also and think he is the real deal. But yet, Jones played 3 full years of college football and has plenty of tape. What is the rationale with this argument? Personally, I would not have mind taking Haskins: because of his high IQ and accuracy and ability to handle the beign in NY. My opinion is that I would never had touched Murray, because of the uncertainty of how he would handle being in New York, his size and maybe leaving for baseball later on.
On other thing. The comparisons of Daniel Jones to Dave Brown are stupid and plainly absurd. Just because he played for Duke and wore #17 doesn't qualify him for being a failure. You may as well say that Saquon Barkley is going to suck, because he played for played for Penn St., the same college that produced disappointing RBs such as Blair Thomas and Ki Jana Carter.
Lets get a grip everyone and move on. We got our QB of the future. Now the Saquon Barkley haters on this board can shut up. Let's start supporing your team and be a true Giant fan. If Jones doesn't pan out after playing on this team for a few years, then we can call the pick stupid and a failure. However, I do have at feeling Jones is going to work out.
Do You speak english? And count me as grateful you're not in the molds building a quarterback around the team. How would you do that?
Do You speak english? And count me as grateful you're not in the molds building a quarterback around the team. How would you do that?
Oh good another BBI legend who doesnt know his dick from his brain. Sorry I added a "s" on a word.
How the Browns doing? You admitted of being a Browns fan now. So you come here trolling the Giants board. A real winner you are.
I even joked a few days ago that BBI would go nuts if we drafted Jones at #6 with one of the "premium" defensive players there.
We could've had Allen, Beckham and Rosen. Instead, we have Jones, Lawrence and Baker. Maybe Gettlemen ends up being right, but it's hard to say he's inspired much confidence so far.
Not as much now, but when we drafted Eli he easily had a plus arm. There wasn’t a throw he couldn’t make. And that was back when the league was more vertical.
Jones has virtually no plus categories except he seems to have the mindset to handle NYC. Which is beyond laughable as a criteria.
First, we passed on Darnold.
Then we passed on Rosen.
Then we drafted Lauletta.
Then we kept Eli.
Then we didn’t trade for Rosen.
Then we passed on a premium edge rusher.
Then we drafted a QB with no plus skills at #6.
This is what we get for a fake GM search that lands a GM who has never picked a franchise QB. But he’s a card carrying member of the “Giants Way”...
Here we go with the dinasaur mentality again.
People who refuse to accept that the league has changed and can't change their opinions on what is necessary to play well in the league.
Arm strength may matter less today than at any point since the forward pass became a staple of the modern offense. With the speed and power of today's pass-rushers, the ability to get the ball out quickly and accurately is critical. Sitting in the pocket looking for the home run ball is asking for a sack, turnover or way to get your QB hurt.
If you need a clearer example of how the game has changed, look at Brady. In his early career (and yes, we can use the Super Bowl XLII as a great example), he would drop back and wait for receivers to come open deep and get the ball there.
After Brady got injured (ACL) and the game changed, the Patriots reimagined their offense, and adapted by moving small receivers across the defense in short patterns designed to create separation and get yards after the catch. While Brady still takes the deep shot occasionally, it is no longer the staple of the offense.
The Giants basically won Super Bowl XLII because they pounded Brady into submission by constantly hitting him- didn't get many sacks, but eventually the offense crumbled because he got rid of the ball faster and faster with less and less accuracy- and the offense was not designed to do that.
The Giants know- as just about every team in the league does, that QBs are not going to get 3-4 seconds back there very often. They will get 2 or less on many passing downs. Good luck getting the ball downfield in the air more than 20 yards in that short window- unless you are Mahomes- and there's only one of him.
Jones is the modern QB designed for the modern game. He doesn't have a howitzer, but has more than enough arm to make all the key throws. Accuracy and getting the right decision is his game.
Look at the offense Shurmer ran in Minnesota. It was high-octane, but not because the QB was heaving it 40 yards downfield. It was about moving the receivers and a QB who got the ball into the space where the receiver had space to catch and run. It was also balanced by a good run game. The OL was not top-notch, but it was good enough to give the QB and RB time and space.
That is what the Giants are looking to replicate- guys like Engram and Barkley getting into space and getting the ball in their hands without having to break stride, and allow their athleticism shine in the open field.
bw, the era of the big armed QB is OVER. Time to come out of the paleolithic era of football and recognize that the game has changed- and your view of what is important in a QB hasn't changed.
I hope Daniel Jones turns out to be Bert Jones. If so, we will all be giddy.
Unlike Haskins, every third snap he was under jail break style pressure and still navigated the pocket and delivered an accurate ball. He seemed to navigate the pocket very well more often than not.
I know the dave brown stigma exists, but I didn’t see dave brown or even tannehill, I saw a guy with a lot of talent in his game who made his team better. The fact that the duke team was even nationally ranked is a testament to him. He made his team better, which is one of the things I know I was looking for in a qb.
It’s seems he was probably gone by cincy’s pick, so he probably doesn’t last until 17. The organization has conviction on a guy and took him. If it doesn’t work out, DG will be gone, if it does they Giants are wet at the position for the next 15 years.
It’s also not as difficult to walk away from a top pick as it used to be, the Cardinals did it yesterday.
This is the first post I have ever agreed with LAX on.
We could've had Allen, Beckham and Rosen. Instead, we have Jones, Lawrence and Baker. Maybe Gettlemen ends up being right, but it's hard to say he's inspired much confidence so far.
Why? After drafting Barkley, Hernandez, BJ Hill, and Carter last year I am more than willing to give him so space
The next time having a dominant run game and controlling clock is a bad thing, it will be a first for the NFL.
Look at the kids college production. Granted bad team impacted his numbers but 56% completion with a noodle arm. I read somewhere his % was 28% on throws over 20 yards.
QBs always get over drafted but my god at 6 with Allen on the board Ill never understand. Where is our pass rush coming from this year?
Where is this "noodle arm" and inaccurate passer crappola coming from?
It is baffling to me that the loudest who claimed they were stupid last year for passing on a QB (any QB!) for Barkley, are now in many cases the loudest to claim they are stupid for passing on lesser players than Barkley for this 1 particular QB. Yet many would have been fine with the guy who fell to 15 and got passed over by more than 1 team who was looking at QB's. Or the guy who hasn't been drafted yet. Or a 25 year old projected to go in round 3 with a weaker arm? That would have been great value!
I was not enthused about Daniel Jones 2-3 months ago, but as teams in the teens began bringing him in for private workouts I took a closer look and saw enough there to think he warranted a first round pick. In particular he played a very ballsy game vs. Clemson with 3 top 17 defenders taking turns treating him like a tackling dummy (or trying to). He accomplished things at Duke that haven't happened in a long time (or ever). I fail to see how anyone could view Josh Allen (the qb who went #7 last year) better in any area of being a QB other than pure arm strength. Jones played better competition, produced better results, and checks all the same size/speed/smarts boxes.
I’m bothered by using #6 overall on a player you basically don’t even intend to give an honest chance to win the starting job. Eli’s had a great career, but I think the level of emphasis being placed on having a new QB be his understudy is absurd. If the kid was a project that didn’t require huge investment, I totally get it.
I have a hard time reconciling the ‘Eli can still play’, ‘they want to win in 2019’, and ‘Eli is definitely the starter in 2019’ with taking a QB at #6 in the face of the massive talent deficiency throughout the rest of the roster.
It is baffling to me that the loudest who claimed they were stupid last year for passing on a QB (any QB!) for Barkley, are now in many cases the loudest to claim they are stupid for passing on lesser players than Barkley for this 1 particular QB. Yet many would have been fine with the guy who fell to 15 and got passed over by more than 1 team who was looking at QB's. Or the guy who hasn't been drafted yet. Or a 25 year old projected to go in round 3 with a weaker arm? That would have been great value!
Again, why do people who wanted a new QB have to be happy with this pick?
bw, the era of the big armed QBs is OVER. Time to come out of the paleolithic era of football and recognize that the game has changed- and your view of what is important in a QB hasn't changed.
I couldn't disagree more. The game isn't moving away from arm strength as much as the game is embracing QB mobility - horizontally and vertically. The ability of a QB to make throws horizontally and to be able to run vertically to make plays, especially on crucial downs. And in order to make those throws horizontally you have better have a plus arm.
Here's an exercise - write down all the current successful QB in the NFL, with their various styles, and tell me who doesn't have a strong arm. I'll guarantee right now the majority have a plus arm.
I'll help you get started:
Mahomes, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Wilson, Wentz, Brady, Rivers, Luck, Goff, Newton...I'll let you finish the rest.
What about Deshaun Watson?
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It is baffling to me that the loudest who claimed they were stupid last year for passing on a QB (any QB!) for Barkley, are now in many cases the loudest to claim they are stupid for passing on lesser players than Barkley for this 1 particular QB. Yet many would have been fine with the guy who fell to 15 and got passed over by more than 1 team who was looking at QB's. Or the guy who hasn't been drafted yet. Or a 25 year old projected to go in round 3 with a weaker arm? That would have been great value!
Again, why do people who wanted a new QB have to be happy with this pick?
Nobody needs to be happy about anything, but logic would dictate that people who thought QB was a desperate need would at least be happy they addressed the need. I personally don't love Baker for example, but I know they needed a CB so if they thought he was the best let's see how their evaluation turns out. They certainly invested a lot more into their evaluation than I did so I could be wrong.
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In comment 14409991 Eric on Li said:
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It is baffling to me that the loudest who claimed they were stupid last year for passing on a QB (any QB!) for Barkley, are now in many cases the loudest to claim they are stupid for passing on lesser players than Barkley for this 1 particular QB. Yet many would have been fine with the guy who fell to 15 and got passed over by more than 1 team who was looking at QB's. Or the guy who hasn't been drafted yet. Or a 25 year old projected to go in round 3 with a weaker arm? That would have been great value!
Again, why do people who wanted a new QB have to be happy with this pick?
Nobody needs to be happy about anything, but logic would dictate that people who thought QB was a desperate need would at least be happy they addressed the need. I personally don't love Baker for example, but I know they needed a CB so if they thought he was the best let's see how their evaluation turns out. They certainly invested a lot more into their evaluation than I did so I could be wrong.
Not if they felt they took the wrong QB. Addressing the need doesn’t matter if the potentially blew it.
After the pick
Bbi- wtf you doing
That about right
You just have to hope those who feel compelled to trust what very well appears to be an incompetent front office don't have to wait as long for vindication as the Warriors fans did.
I even joked a few days ago that BBI would go nuts if we drafted Jones at #6 with one of the "premium" defensive players there.
I said it in February. Something to the effect of, imagine when we pick Jones at 6.
It just made too much sense.
You just have to hope those who feel compelled to trust what very well appears to be an incompetent front office don't have to wait as long for vindication as the Warriors fans did.
Should we trust your opinion then over Gettlemans? What has Gettleman done that has been wrong so far.
Let me guess.... signing stewart and omameh - and cutting one of them after he saw his mistake? What success rate does a GM need to have to be deemed incompetent?
"We didn't sign OBJ to trade him."- trades him
"We take BPA at the draft, don't reach for players that's fatal philosophy."
I find it very hard to believe that Daniel Jones was the sixth best available overall prospect on the board which means the Giants reached a day after they said they won't do that.
It doesn't instill confidence or trust in the plan the front office has and DG doesn't have enough of a track record in his GM stint with the Giants yet to trust his decision making process.
I know people complained in the past about telegraphing picks, but there is a way to communicate with out telegraphing the pick and without downright lying. You keep lying to the media, they are going to be out for blood
I'm cautiously optimistic based on his past roles evaluating talent, but this pick need to be a home run.
I can't believe people care about this stuff.
What about Deshaun Watson?
If you don't think Wilson doesn't have a great arm, and are going to boil the comparison down to one day throwing indoors on a gun, then you are very naive.
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than Jones at the combine. And Rivers doesnt have a big arm.
What about Deshaun Watson?
If you don't think Wilson doesn't have a great arm, and are going to boil the comparison down to one day throwing indoors on a gun, then you are very naive.
Yeah, I’m the naive one.