Somewhat understandably there is a lot of negativity on this board today. Guys I get it, but as some have said, many of you need to take a step back and look at the process the Giants have been engaged in since December 2017.
I said after Reese and McAdoo were fired that Mara would next begin the process of finding and returning the Giants to their traditional foundation. (I don't need to go into what an organizational disaster Reese and McAdoo were, we all know.) The hiring of Dave Gettleman is entirely consistent with that. The hiring of Pat Shurmur, a prior head coach on his second stint in the Captain's Chair, who possesses a measured and calm demeanor with a dedicated work ethic is also entirely consistent with that. Gettleman's dedication to building the trenches and running the football is entirely consistent with that. The Giants are trying to return to the 2007 style Giants.
I don't mean to knock the analytics crowd. I think the data has its uses, but I also think it leads some to very poor and unrelated conclusions. For example, there is a vein of that crowd that simply does not believe in player intangibles, team/organizational culture, toughness, instinct, big stage performances, the "it" factor, and other concepts now regarded as cliche. One of the reasons why I like Matt Walderman (rookie scouting portfolio) is that he blends analytics with intangibles, as he regards football as part performance art. Gettleman and the Giants still regard many of these traits as critical to player evaluation, and I happen to agree. And before anyone screams "but Dexter Lawrence has character issues" that suspension was by all reports an innocent mistake than any one of us could have made.
As it stands on the morning of April 26th, the New York Giants have nearly completed the demolition of what was internally a rotten structure and are rebuilding on a fresh foundation of concepts they believe they can rely on. Fans saw some great talent leave the organization in the last 9 months.
Snacks Harrison was a run stoping force and fan favorite, but he deliberately avoided being a leader on the team, allegedly didn't always practice or play hard, cost a lot of money, and may have been a negative influence in the locker room.
Eli Apple, I don't need to elaborate.
Landon Collins was an awesome player for the Giants, but he didn't cover well and the man would literally say anything and everything to the media. Openly calling Eli Apple a cancer (not that he wasn't, but still keep it in house). He was voted a team Captain by the locker room, but I'm not convinced he was exactly what the organization wanted in a locker room leader.
Odell Beckham Jr, this one still stings. I was a big OBJ fan, and many know I defended him just about every single time. Still, I always wished he would grow up, stay off of social media, and just focus on playing good football. He didn't. How tired did we all get of just waiting for the next OBJ headline to drop. If we got tired of it, how tired do you think the Giants and Giants players were with it. They may have loved him, I'm quite sure they did, but I am sure they were tired of the circus. To put it bluntly, Odell the person was detracting from Odell the player and preventing the Giants from using him as a building block.
There are others, like Bobby Hart, Vernon, and Flowers. They all had to go for different reasons. Whether it was poor performance, bad influence, or lack of dedication, Gettleman and Schurmur had to purge the locker room.
Now look at what the Giants have as building blocks going forward:
Saquon Barkley - Touched by the hand of God was only a partial reference to talent. He is impeccable off the field and with the media. A natural leader and plus player in the locker room. He's the face of the franchise.
Sterling Shepherd - Certainly not the same player OBJ is, but Eli trusts him, he works hard, never says or does the wrong thing (boat trip aside) and does the little things on the field right (route running and blocking). A never quite player.
Nate Solder - Some could argue this because of age, but LT is a corner stone position and Nate Solder is a class act all the way. A mentor and leader of his peers.
Eli Manning & Daniel Jones - All I will say about Eli here is that he has been the model NFL franchise QB from just about every angle. He is perfect with the media, meticulous in his preparation, and is as reliable Mon-Fri as an NFL QB can be. The results have not always been there on Sunday in recent years, but from an organizational standpoint there is a lot to lick.
Now Daniel Jones, the elephant in the room. I know many of you are not happy with the pick, and I wouldn't call myself happy, but I at least get it and am at peace with it. If you buy my initial premise that the Giants are all about returning to their foundation, their organizational identity, and that Gettleman and company value things beyond the numbers, then this pick makes all the sense in the world. I encourage everyone to listen to the move the sticks podcast 360 on Daniel Jones:
- The kid has known adversity. Broke his wrist playing basketball his junior of high school which pretty much dried up his recruitment opportunities. Was accepted at Princeton, walked onto Duke and earned his scholarship.
- Was 5'11" 140ish as a starting QB in high school. Jumped to 6'4" 185 by his senior year.
- Described as playing football from the neck up.
- In three years as a starter in High School, never missed an offensive meeting with the coaching staff, was always first in, last out.
- At Duke in 2018, his receivers dropped at least 38 balls. Some of which would have gone for TDs (youtube shows this well).
- He was the most pressured QB in college football last year.
- Tough, recovered from a broken collar bone in two weeks. Back on the field throwing passes.
- Deceptively good athlete. Had 200 yards rushing in a single game this year. Good pocket mobility, throws well on the run.
Look, I wanted Allen at 6, but I like Jones, or at least what I think Jones gives the Giants organization and Schurmur to work with. He has many of the QB traits Schurmur places at the top of his list. The Jones selection is 100% consistent with Gettleman and Giants ownership returning the Giants to their traditional identity. Some of you may say, "but the league has changed, you can't win emphasizing defense, the run, and play action anymore." I disagree. The Patriots did it last year, and dominated the playoffs. Despite all their smoke and mirrors, the Rams highly emphasize the run game and play action. Same goes for the Saints. This league hasn't changed as much as some say. The trim and windows of the NFL house may have changed, but the foundation for winning teams has very much stayed the same.
You don't have to like what Gettleman is doing, you don't have to agree, but you need to understand it. He is rebuilding an organization that was hollowed out by years of bad drafts and selfish players. He has all but completed phase I. He has a new core of players, shedding bad contracts, QB of the future on the roster. Only time will tell if this all works, but there are many positives if we can all just take a step back and look at the bigger picture.
Hoping for a couple more players tonight!
Great OL/run game
Solid D
My problem is, more times than not, the teams with the better QB’s are the ones in the playoffs consistently.
Culture is not enough by itself to win football games. This isn't a boy scout troop, it's a professional football team. At this level, natural talent is a huge factor in success. Daniel Jones simply does not have much of that.
Davis Webb was supposedly going to "work harder than anyone" to become the next NY franchise QB. He was cut a few months later. You can have the best attitude and work ethic and that doesn't mean sh*t if you don't have the top-tier talent needed to succeed at this level.
Players can want to be great all they want. They can have the best mentors and coaches in the sport and be fantastic teammates. But you need a whole lot more than that to be a
You are right. Analytics had nothing to do with the picks, because they can't measure what DG and PS are looking for. They are projecting Jones as a franchise QB in measuring the tools he had to work in the talent that surrounded him and the tools he currently has as a football player. That is pretty difficult to measure when you have crappy talent surrounding you.
Culture is not enough by itself to win football games. This isn't a boy scout troop, it's a professional football team. At this level, natural talent is a huge factor in success. Daniel Jones simply does not have much of that.
Davis Webb was supposedly going to "work harder than anyone" to become the next NY franchise QB. He was cut a few months later. You can have the best attitude and work ethic and that doesn't mean sh*t if you don't have the top-tier talent needed to succeed at this level.
Players can want to be great all they want. They can have the best mentors and coaches in the sport and be fantastic teammates. But you need a whole lot more than that to be a
They passed on him because they felt Jones was our franchise guy and Rosen and Haskins were not. GMs who know far more than we do (yes, I know, they’re not infallible) such as Kirwan, Brandt and Polian have said MANY times through the years, if you have a conviction on a guy, take him as soon as you can and don’t risk losing him. We don’t really know what went on behind the scenes, but APPARENTLY, Denver, Cincy and even Washington wanted him. True or not, the Giants did not want to lose a potential franchise. We’ll see if they’re right in the next few years
success: the ancient history of the 50s and early 60s, the late 80s and the 2007-2011 period. In between have been periods of mediocrity and abject failure. The constant has been ownership by then Mara family, and I have no faith in Mara to hire the best management or execute a winning plan in the current era of football.
Gary does but haven’t heard that about Allen
Those arent good references.
Don’t you realize how hard some here worked to formulate the draft they envisioned. It was all right there, and Gettleman blew it, just read the hysteria from yesterday if you think I jest.
Eli is here, and he has anywhere between 1-3 years left based off what’s been said here and there. I really wouldn’t be surprised by an extension. Jones will compete and be mentored by Eli. I know Eli said he’s not a mentor, but it’s pretty clear he’ll be mentoring Daniel, even doing it happily it seems.
There’s a partnership I see happening here and a true passing of the torch that can be pure class and inspiration to witness if it works. I’m rooting for Daniel to take the torch from Eli and watching Eli pass it to him. As a fan, this could be very special to watch. The connection between the QBs and their history is interesting. If Jones does share Eli’s intangibles, I’m more than thrilled with the future.
So with all these romantic notions of mine out of the way, there had better be some gob damn Olinemen coming next.
Couldn't agree more. All anyone needs to know and take into account.