(1) The Giants drafted the QB that THEY wanted. Time will tell, but they finally bit the bullet and made the most important decision they needed to make in the rebuild process.
(2) Long-time BBIers know I love big, strong, run-stuffing defensive tackles. Lawrence is like getting Ngata or Wilfork.
(3) The CB situation on this team was dreadful. The Giants drafted their #1 rated CB.
Go pound sand if you don't like it! (This is said with love).
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In comment 14410909 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 14410814 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 14410675 ryanmkeane said:
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Eric, love the Lawrence and Baker picks. With Jones, we will just have to wait and see, that is the thing with this pick. A lot of it rides on how good the team is and what Eli is doing. For example...what if we are good this year? Do they extend Eli another year??
Jones - we will see if he turns out to be good, but the weird thing is that there doesn't seem to be any way he gets onto the field in 2019 UNLESS Eli gets hurt or is just laughably bad (which...could happen).
Let's root like hell for the kid
Fans can't have it both ways.
Thursday: "We need a new QB to replace Eli!!!"
Friday: "Why the (blank) did we draft a QB??!!"
Except thats not whats being said.
People are upset about the QB that they took, not that they took a QB. Theres a big difference
Really. You are completely wrong with this. Folks wanted an Edge rusher not a QB.
You just keep the BS flowing.
What are you even saying? Neither post mentioned where the QB was taken.
Eric was questioning people who wanted a QB being upset they took a QB when the case is people are upset about who the QB is not that they took one.
The conversation had nothing to do with Edge rusher vs QB it specifically about people wanting a QB and being mad. Reading comprehension isnt hard.
Apparently it is very hard for you. People wanted Allen at 6. Whether Giants went Haskins or Jones you would all crying today. It has everything to do with Edge vs QB.
Eric is following the thinking that people wanted any QB no matter what, and shouldnt be mad because they got what they wanted.
QB vs Edge is an entirely different conversation .
Thursday: "We need a new QB to replace Eli!!!"
Friday: "Why the (blank) did we draft a QB??!!"
Except, why does it have to be this QB?
Eric is following the thinking that people wanted any QB no matter what, and shouldnt be mad because they got what they wanted.
QB vs Edge is an entirely different conversation .
This is BS. I hate to be a revisionist.... but there were many, many posters all during last season he clamored for a mobile QB. They clamored from a compelte break from Eli. They clamored for a new start. You were most definitely one of them. How many god damn times have we heard that DG has "no plan at QB".
I argued for months that it wasnt worth doing in this draft. I was called an eli-love, an eli-apologist, i was mocked by everyone on this board who wanted a new QB that I disliked all the possible replacements. It got to the point where I stopped saying it because posters like you and many many many more wanted change.
Now we drafted a mobile QB. Now that we have a succession plan. Now that we are moving on - now its "not the QB we wanted". Bullshit.
You were most definitely one of those posters. To say you werent is just a flat out lie. You got what you wanted - a mobile, new QB to start new from. Enjoy.
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Nobody who wanted a QB is mad because they took a QB, theyre mad because of the QB it was.
Eric is following the thinking that people wanted any QB no matter what, and shouldnt be mad because they got what they wanted.
QB vs Edge is an entirely different conversation .
This is BS. I hate to be a revisionist.... but there were many, many posters all during last season he clamored for a mobile QB. They clamored from a compelte break from Eli. They clamored for a new start. You were most definitely one of them. How many god damn times have we heard that DG has "no plan at QB".
I argued for months that it wasnt worth doing in this draft. I was called an eli-love, an eli-apologist, i was mocked by everyone on this board who wanted a new QB that I disliked all the possible replacements. It got to the point where I stopped saying it because posters like you and many many many more wanted change.
Now we drafted a mobile QB. Now that we have a succession plan. Now that we are moving on - now its "not the QB we wanted". Bullshit.
You were most definitely one of those posters. To say you werent is just a flat out lie. You got what you wanted - a mobile, new QB to start new from. Enjoy.
Yes I wanted a new QB, but I didnt want Jones. I wanted Haskins or Lock or even Grier. I also would have been fine taking no QB if it meant Jones was the one.
Why is that opinion not allowed? Why is this you guys got what you wanted deal with it rhetoric you created the only way people who wanted to find a new QB are allowed to think?
Fans can't have it both ways.
Thursday: "We need a new QB to replace Eli!!!"
Friday: "Why the (blank) did we draft a QB??!!"
Says who? The BBI Mainstream?
Give me a fucking break. It's not about the fact we drafted a QB; it's about who we drafted.
This constant hammering by the BBI Mainstream that everyone needs to fall in line with Jints Central now that the die is cast - because they are these brilliant football "experts" - is a bit insulting...
Oh, I forgot he is automatically gonna fail in the NFL. I mean can he throw one INT before BBI says he sucks?
See thats where your comprehension is off.
Thinking they should release Eli and sign a cheap vet while they work on getting their next QB is not the same as wanting any QB no matter who it was.
But keep doing you.
We should be more like you.
You guys bitch about the QB situation. The Giants addressed it. You don't like the guy, but they do.
Or throw an INt before we say he sucks?
You guys bitch about the QB situation. The Giants addressed it. You don't like the guy, but they do.
They had no plan of succession. They rather just gripe or complain about management. Its obvious at this point.
I think people still have the right to be frustrated that they like a QB enough to take him at #6, but aren't prepared to put him on the field.
They actually haven't "moved on" at all at this point.
I think a lot of people, like me, who wanted them to move on from Eli (some of us for a couple of seasons running) feel like we were essentially asked (not really asked) to buy in one more time on the 'we aren't far away' and 'Eli can still play' and 'they want to win in 2019' thing...
As the draft approached, I started to feel like 'hey, I've said my peace about why I think the overall approach is wrong. If they say they can win now, let's lean into the draft and win now'.
And then this.
Does it not feel like they're really trying to shoot the moon on a few different priorities at once? (Eli legacy / Winning Now / QB of the Future)
Is it really crazy to feel that they shouldn't have promised somebody the starting gig and then used #6 to draft a QB?
Is there really no merit to wanting the QB you draft at #6 overall on the field right away? Or damn soon?
I feel like everyone who isn't happy with the pick is being grouped into a "BBI" collective that is assumed to be unreasoned and off-base.
I don't begrudge any of the many fans who choose to quickly get behind whatever course the team takes. I totally understand how that might be a more enjoyable way to carry on mentally. That isn't interesting or fun to me personally, but to each their own. But the lashing out at those who don't conform to the same way of thinking seems unfair. Why is agreeing with what the team did assumed to be the higher ground in discussion?
BBI Group #1: "I hate Haskins".
BBI Group #2: "I hate Jones."
BBI Group #3: "I hate Rosen."
Do you guys even hear yourselves sometimes?
From what I read
the CB sounds decent.
the QB is a joke
and the NT may play two downs, but even if he plays 3, he potentially obscures the utility of one or both of BJ Hill and Dalvin Tomlinson, so puts to question the roster construction of an NFL team in an ever growing pass-first league.
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In comment 14410675 ryanmkeane said:
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Eric, love the Lawrence and Baker picks. With Jones, we will just have to wait and see, that is the thing with this pick. A lot of it rides on how good the team is and what Eli is doing. For example...what if we are good this year? Do they extend Eli another year??
Jones - we will see if he turns out to be good, but the weird thing is that there doesn't seem to be any way he gets onto the field in 2019 UNLESS Eli gets hurt or is just laughably bad (which...could happen).
Let's root like hell for the kid
Fans can't have it both ways.
Thursday: "We need a new QB to replace Eli!!!"
Friday: "Why the (blank) did we draft a QB??!!"
Except thats not whats being said.
People are upset about the QB that they took, not that they took a QB. Theres a big difference
And this is where I differ, and where you lose me. If I want the team to take a QB fine. I also likely have my opinions, again fine. However when there are 3 QB's there to choose from, and the GM picks a different guy than I would have (but still a legitimate choice), I say ok. Its his job, he is the expert, and we finally got a QB. I don't throw a temper tantrum, start calling the GM names, and wishing him to die on the internet.
Some people like Jones, some don't. Some like Haskins and some don't. Obviously the Giants weren't the only ones who liked Jones first, Denver and possibly Cincy were waiting for him too.
They took a QB, they made their decision that Jones has the best chance to be a franchise guy. After seeing limited amounts of all 3, who am I to really judge.
1. We heard all off season and offseason that we needed a mobile QB. We got one.
2. Too many posters are saying Jones sucks or wont be good.
He has never passed a ball in practice yet and people are making the proclamation. Its absurd. And just because its not the QB " they" wanted doesnt make it the wrong pick. You cant claim to want something and then when you get it - claim its not good enough.
Again, people are already saying that the value wasnt there there for him to be picked? I just think its still to make statements like this because he can up being the steal of the draft by the time his career is done.
BBI Group #1: "I hate Haskins".
BBI Group #2: "I hate Jones."
BBI Group #3: "I hate Rosen."
Do you guys even hear yourselves sometimes?
Man... what a fun forum this would be if we just said great job Dave! God forbid, we the people, dont agree with an average QB (in college) being picked with a premium pick. The horror.
From what I read
the CB sounds decent.
the QB is a joke
and the NT may play two downs, but even if he plays 3, he potentially obscures the utility of one or both of BJ Hill and Dalvin Tomlinson, so puts to question the roster construction of an NFL team in an ever growing pass-first league.
Our run defense was putrid last year. Tomlinson, Hill, and Lawerence are a stud line. Philly would use them. (And note how they've kicked our ass on the line for years).
Gettleman snowballed us all last year with his blathering about how he wouldn't force a QB pick just to get a new QB.....and then he did exactly that this year with an excellent pass rusher sitting right there, waiting to fill a role the Giants are desperately lacking in.
But you guys are not thinking logically. You seem to want to both draft Eli's replacement and the stud at #6. The Giants didn't think that was an option. They felt Denver or Washington (with a trade) would have nabbed Jones.
Gettleman snowballed us all last year with his blathering about how he wouldn't force a QB pick just to get a new QB.....and then he did exactly that this year with an excellent pass rusher sitting right there, waiting to fill a role the Giants are desperately lacking in.
So you would have stuck with Eli, Tanney, and Lauletta? At least you're being honest about it.
But that's not what the bulk of fans were demanding.
The majority also think that Daniel Jones was the wrong pick; however, they also think that if they had conviction on Jones being the guy it was the right move.
My opinion, is the data shows that Daniel Jones was going to be the least likely QB to succeed simply off of the ceiling that his NCAA numbers present (Yes they do not account for a terrible O-line or Drop passes), but they are a fairly accurate predictor of success.
This was a total gut over the data decision, and it's ultimately a very boom or bust pick. I'm hoping its a boom, but the data shows it's not likely.
I would have preferred to just wait out another year for better QB prospects in 2020 and or 2021 drafts. Build a better all around team that was in need of a QB, instead of a mixture of both.
BBI Group #1: "I hate Haskins".
BBI Group #2: "I hate Jones."
BBI Group #3: "I hate Rosen."
Do you guys even hear yourselves sometimes?
Youre posting this like a whole board is supposed to have one opinion.
Its reasonable to have wanted a qb and not wanted Jones
1. We heard all off season and offseason that we needed a mobile QB. We got one.
2. Too many posters are saying Jones sucks or wont be good.
He has never passed a ball in practice yet and people are making the proclamation. Its absurd. And just because its not the QB " they" wanted doesnt make it the wrong pick. You cant claim to want something and then when you get it - claim its not good enough.
Again, people are already saying that the value wasnt there there for him to be picked? I just think its still to make statements like this because he can up being the steal of the draft by the time his career is done.
I don't see why it would be wrong to want a QB and not like the one they pick. People have opinions (some informed, some not at all)
I'll certainly agree that some of the reactions are over-the-top, as they always are.
And I'm guessing that some of the posts bashing the player, if were to really get to the bottom of it, belie what is actually dissatisfaction with the plan in its entirety.
I will say I'm absolutely pumped about the athleticism/mobility aspect. Now I want to see it play.
Gettleman snowballed us all last year with his blathering about how he wouldn't force a QB pick just to get a new QB.....and then he did exactly that this year with an excellent pass rusher sitting right there, waiting to fill a role the Giants are desperately lacking in.
I'm with you Greg.
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really at all.
From what I read
the CB sounds decent.
the QB is a joke
and the NT may play two downs, but even if he plays 3, he potentially obscures the utility of one or both of BJ Hill and Dalvin Tomlinson, so puts to question the roster construction of an NFL team in an ever growing pass-first league.
Our run defense was putrid last year. Tomlinson, Hill, and Lawerence are a stud line. Philly would use them. (And note how they've kicked our ass on the line for years).
I'm not an x and o's football guy - no issue admitting that, but what happens if a team puts out a formation (even like 11 personnel the Giants used so much under McAdoo) and instead of running they pass from that formation - on 1st and/or 2nd down with those three (Hill, Tomlinson and Lawence) on the field?
Are those 3 and Carter or Ogletree or Martin or whatever other LB's are on the field going to generate enough pass rush?
I get those three can shut down the run, and Snacks was kind of a mirage (more reputation than results it seemed), but what happens with those three on the field and teams pass the ball?
Won't the QB have all day to get to someone downfield or if not, find the mismatch with a TE or RB?
I guess what would help is if I understood how those three can play together and help in pass D/pressuring the quarterback?
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I understand being a fan. Theres nothing wrong with it. But watching these #Giants fans reaction video where they turn into mental patients over a guy who could well pan out (you never know!) need to rethink their lives. #NFLDraft
@GeoffMags5490
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I understand being a fan. Theres nothing wrong with it. But watching these #Giants fans reaction video where they turn into mental patients over a guy who could well pan out (you never know!) need to rethink their lives. #NFLDraft
But Greg saw him play that one time live in 2017. I think that gives his opinion of Jones plenty of clout
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In comment 14410675 ryanmkeane said:
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Eric, love the Lawrence and Baker picks. With Jones, we will just have to wait and see, that is the thing with this pick. A lot of it rides on how good the team is and what Eli is doing. For example...what if we are good this year? Do they extend Eli another year??
Jones - we will see if he turns out to be good, but the weird thing is that there doesn't seem to be any way he gets onto the field in 2019 UNLESS Eli gets hurt or is just laughably bad (which...could happen).
Let's root like hell for the kid
Fans can't have it both ways.
Thursday: "We need a new QB to replace Eli!!!"
Friday: "Why the (blank) did we draft a QB??!!"
Except thats not whats being said.
People are upset about the QB that they took, not that they took a QB. Theres a big difference
But certainly you have to admit, you're talking about people who know far less about QB's than the people in charge of evaluating and then choosing QBs.
But you guys are not thinking logically. You seem to want to both draft Eli's replacement and the stud at #6. The Giants didn't think that was an option. They felt Denver or Washington (with a trade) would have nabbed Jones.
I get it man. Daniel Jones isnt even in the same breath as the top QBs in next years draft. And if we arent lying to ourselves, we know that the Giants will be in the top 15 again next year in position to draft a superior talent. Thats my gripe. Is what it is. What can you do.
You guys bitch about the QB situation. The Giants addressed it. You don't like the guy, but they do.
I'd like to think everyone is concerned about the Eli transition.
For QB, not anybody at #6 this year, but especially Jones. Again, it's about value and managing the draft correctly.
Eli is the QB for at least this year. Right? So what helps the team more at #6 to help us/Eli win this year or next? A top level pass rusher or a QB prospect who is, IMV, more project than guarantee. Or top level LB? Or the QB? Another OL? Or the QB?
I'm all ears if you can rationally explain why a project who will likely wait 1,2 or even 3 years is better for the team than any of those position needs I listed...
Jon mentioned it in another thread - if everything had played out the same only with Allen taken at 6 rather than Jones, I doubt many people would be griping about the draft because we'd see the nucleus of a damned good defense taking shape, filling holes at multiple positions.
Those people applauding the pick - do you think Jones will ever be an All-Pro, or even a Pro Bowl QB? Will he ever be considered one of the top 5 QBs in the league? Do you think he can carry an offense to a Super Bowl? If your reaction to those questions isn't an unequivocal "yes", then don't use the #6 overall pick on that guy.
If they were always right we wouldnt be in the position we are in. Time will tell.
That's more than 99% of the cheerleaders on here waving their pom-poms over Jones have watched him play, isn't it?
And, again since the pep squad hasn't wanted to face this fact - there are two actual, professional football scouts who contribute here. One of them, Dave, outright didn't like Jones. The other, Sy, was tepid in his evaluation and said that he would pass on him at #6. So stop with the canard that "hurrrrr only dorks who watched a YouTube video think Jones isn't that good"
Having come to that decision, people became emotionally wed to a specific player and any choice other than that player simply was wrong. The pick of Jones is decried not because of talent but because our own egos can't handle disagreement without seeing it as a personal affront.
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No one is saying you can't criticize. I criticize the Giants all of the time. And I get slammed for doing so.
But you guys are not thinking logically. You seem to want to both draft Eli's replacement and the stud at #6. The Giants didn't think that was an option. They felt Denver or Washington (with a trade) would have nabbed Jones.
I get it man. Daniel Jones isnt even in the same breath as the top QBs in next years draft. And if we arent lying to ourselves, we know that the Giants will be in the top 15 again next year in position to draft a superior talent. Thats my gripe. Is what it is. What can you do.
Taking Haskins and Lock out of the equation. They did exactly what the anti QB crowd last year pounded the table about. Taking a lesser QB with better ones on the horizon.
If Jones doesnt work out AND the Giants up toward the top 5 of the next two drafts and cant take Tua or Lawrence because of Jones that could potentially be disastrous.
If they were always right we wouldnt be in the position we are in. Time will tell.
I don't know automatically. But there's probably a >99% chance.
Why can't folks accept this?
If Jones doesnt work out AND the Giants up toward the top 5 of the next two drafts and cant take Tua or Lawrence because of Jones that could potentially be disastrous.
Or do what Arizona did, right?
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No one is saying you can't criticize. I criticize the Giants all of the time. And I get slammed for doing so.
But you guys are not thinking logically. You seem to want to both draft Eli's replacement and the stud at #6. The Giants didn't think that was an option. They felt Denver or Washington (with a trade) would have nabbed Jones.
I get it man. Daniel Jones isnt even in the same breath as the top QBs in next years draft. And if we arent lying to ourselves, we know that the Giants will be in the top 15 again next year in position to draft a superior talent. Thats my gripe. Is what it is. What can you do.
I agree wholeheartedly here. That's my disappointment; I wanted the better 2020 guy.
But it's done and, being an adult, I can move on and support their choice.
Jones needs to be better than Darnold because the Giants passed on him. No one can tell me Darnold wasn't a better recruit than Jones. They must see a potential in Jones that no one else can see.
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No one is saying you can't criticize. I criticize the Giants all of the time. And I get slammed for doing so.
But you guys are not thinking logically. You seem to want to both draft Eli's replacement and the stud at #6. The Giants didn't think that was an option. They felt Denver or Washington (with a trade) would have nabbed Jones.
I get it man. Daniel Jones isnt even in the same breath as the top QBs in next years draft. And if we arent lying to ourselves, we know that the Giants will be in the top 15 again next year in position to draft a superior talent. Thats my gripe. Is what it is. What can you do.
But thats it, you don't know Jones isn't going to be good. Its you opinion I guess, but the experts the Giants have had a different opinion. You can't state Jones stinks as a fact.
I don't know their reasoning but his heart took him completely off my board (same for Murray (baseball) and Rosen (CTE).