this training camp. Regardless of how much people have crapped on the Daniel Jones pick (and I almost threw the remote, TV and kitchen sink out the window), our front office picked him 6th in the entire draft as a QB. I expect a QB picked that high in the draft to immediately compete for the job no matter who the incumbent QB is, even 2-time Super Bowl champion Eli. Sitting Jones the entire year seems to be a farce to me and makes me think that Jones is not ready at all for the NFL. The way Jones can prove us all wrong is to either win the job off Eli in preseason or be given the chance by Shurmur in October should Eli struggle again...
Can you imagine Shurmur declaring that Eli and Jones are in an open QB competition? Shit, he'd lose more than his job, he'd probably lose a kneecap.
Jones will benefit from sitting. Doesn't have to be all year, but he'll definitely benefit.
Eli should start. I think it will be better for Jones.
This is the problem. Daniel Jones was not a great player in college. The #6 overall pick comes in with expectations of being great. He wasn't great at Duke so there's no way he just overnight becomes great in the NFL, period. It doesn't matter where this organization drafted him, that has no impact on his talent as a player. To say he needs to challenge Eli for the week 1 start just because he's the #6 overall pick is a rejection of the reality everyone can see with the naked eye.
And it's not just about what benefits Jones. Does it benefit the team to use the 6th pick so a guy can sit while we overpay Eli?
We'd have been better off with Jones starting from day one + having $17M to invest elsewhere in the roster.
We already are paying Eli, that's a sunk cost and not worth bellyaching over anymore. He's here, and it will be best for Jones to sit for a few weeks - I can't even count how many people have said that he's a guy who ideally would get to watch and learn for a year.
You actually can damage a QB's development by throwing him out there prematurely. If Eli wasn't here, I'd say play him - but he is here, and I don't think it will slow Jones' development at all if he doesn't play Week 1.
Patrick Mahomes didn't even play as a rookie.. he started 1 game.
That looks like it worked out okay.
But the Eli factor obviously trumps any chance of that. So the apprenticeship begins.
I'll say this - if Eli is extended, and I have the worst feeling he will be, this will really change the dynamic for Jones and we may not see him for three years. Which I think would be a bad outcome.
And if we continue to lose, there is a chance Shurmur is gone and the next coach would have to deal with a QB - Jones - that doesn't come close to suiting his vision.
Obviously, Eli gets the first couple of cracks, but if they don't win all bets are off.
We already are paying Eli, that's a sunk cost and not worth bellyaching over anymore. He's here, and it will be best for Jones to sit for a few weeks - I can't even count how many people have said that he's a guy who ideally would get to watch and learn for a year.
You actually can damage a QB's development by throwing him out there prematurely. If Eli wasn't here, I'd say play him - but he is here, and I don't think it will slow Jones' development at all if he doesn't play Week 1.
Patrick Mahomes didn't even play as a rookie.. he started 1 game.
That looks like it worked out okay.
We could still free up $12M by cutting Eli today.
Everyone brings up Mahomes, and they're all mistaken. People should be asking why Mahomes wasn't starting in 2017. Do we really think he was the league MVP because he sat behind Smith for a year? That seems ridiculous.
And again, it's not just about what benefits the player. What is of greater benefit to the team?
Is it better to have Jones start with $17M more of players on the roster, or to sit Jones for a year?
If Jones needs to sit behind Eli to become a better quarterback we drafted the wrong guy.
When I say we have/had shit fans.
Exhibit A.
GTF off the board then.
He'll get better with the right coach, OC, and, probably most critically, the right QB coach.
You here it all the time from the greats - Montana and Young about Holmgren, Favre about Marriuci, Peyton with Tom Moore, Aikman with Norv, Brady with McDaniels and O'Brien, Lombardi with Brees, etc, etc...
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I've heard countless players and scouts talk about how it does benefit certain players to sit and learn for a while.
We already are paying Eli, that's a sunk cost and not worth bellyaching over anymore. He's here, and it will be best for Jones to sit for a few weeks - I can't even count how many people have said that he's a guy who ideally would get to watch and learn for a year.
You actually can damage a QB's development by throwing him out there prematurely. If Eli wasn't here, I'd say play him - but he is here, and I don't think it will slow Jones' development at all if he doesn't play Week 1.
Patrick Mahomes didn't even play as a rookie.. he started 1 game.
That looks like it worked out okay.
We could still free up $12M by cutting Eli today.
Everyone brings up Mahomes, and they're all mistaken. People should be asking why Mahomes wasn't starting in 2017. Do we really think he was the league MVP because he sat behind Smith for a year? That seems ridiculous.
And again, it's not just about what benefits the player. What is of greater benefit to the team?
Is it better to have Jones start with $17M more of players on the roster, or to sit Jones for a year?
If Jones needs to sit behind Eli to become a better quarterback we drafted the wrong guy.
Completely disagree.
What's the point of even bringing up cutting Eli? That's not an option.
And it's just as unprovable that Mahomes DIDN'T benefit from sitting for a year as it is that he did.
I think Andy Reid has a pretty good idea of what he's looking at when it comes to QB's and think he knows what he's doing. I'm not going to sit here and say I'm smarter than he is.
There are countless examples of QB's who didn't start immediately and succeeded. If there was no benefit to young QB's sitting, no one would ever do it - yet, teams are still doing it and evaluators are continually saying that it would benefit the player to do so.
He doesn't have to sit for 3 years. But this guy is coming from a smaller program, his decision making is a self-admitted issue of his, and he has work to do. Throwing him out there against NFL defenders in Week 1 would be a good way to make his head spin and shell shock him.
Not every rookie QB has to play from day 1 and it's not always beneficial for them to do that.
There's literally zero downside to having him sit behind Eli for a few weeks. Eli did it himself. He turned out just fine. There are a billion examples of QB's sitting a few weeks or the first year.
Not all of them are ready for NFL speed right away - I really don't think Jones is. He needs a little time.
Why are you even here?
Can't "neither" be an option?
If they want to sit him a few weeks that's one thing. But that isn't the plan. They aren't benching Eli unless he gets hurt.
The big positive is that this reduces the likelihood of Eli getting an extension, something I thought was a near certainty.
If they don't lose, theres no reason to play him yet.
There's a lot a QB can learn from not playing immediately. And the point about the speed of the game, is that you have to be more mentally prepared to be ready to handle it.
If you throw him out there Week 1 into a loud AT&T Stadium when he's still learning the offense and doesn't have a firm grasp of everything and can't hear shit, he's going to get his ass kicked. It's not a good idea.
The more work he does behind the scenes and the more he understands the looks the defenses are going to flash and the more time he spends in the film room learning this stuff, the more prepared he'll be when he does play and the slower the game will get.
There's no tangible benefit in sending him out there totally green to get lit up in Dallas in Week 1. That's not going to help him do anything but learn about the trainers table.
If they want to sit him a few weeks that's one thing. But that isn't the plan. They aren't benching Eli unless he gets hurt.
The big positive is that this reduces the likelihood of Eli getting an extension, something I thought was a near certainty.
If the Giants aren’t winning, Eli won’t play. Major pressure on winning out of the gate to prevent Jones from starting imo. It’s different this year taking QB at 6.
2. You find out sooner whether or not he can play
The sooner Jones is the starter the better for the Giants in the long term.
I was just thinking about that piece.
It really is a myth.
At least Jones would have a nice running game to support him. So I would run Barkley 400X+ for the next three years, or until he passes out with exhaustion. Limit his throws, hand off to Barkley, or check down to Barkley, and slowly expand the playbook as Jones get more comfortable.
If they want to sit him a few weeks that's one thing. But that isn't the plan. They aren't benching Eli unless he gets hurt.
The big positive is that this reduces the likelihood of Eli getting an extension, something I thought was a near certainty.
Exactly this
2. You find out sooner whether or not he can play
The sooner Jones is the starter the better for the Giants in the long term.
Your thinking is flawed man. Yes, in some cases you're right. But the way you speak makes it seem like this is always the best option. Its not. You keep the veteran QB because you never want to be rushed into playing a young kid who isn't ready, because as i believe Arc said above, it can permanently fuck them up. You don't back yourself into a corner with a rookie QB (exactly why Reid didn't start Mahomes right away) you let his maturation play its natural course. You can't just look at this from the mindset of "either he figures it out by playing right away or he doesn't get the 2nd contract!" not at this position, not when he is your top 10 pick. Thats your baby. You gotta take your time with him because your ass is on the line if he fails.
They couldn't have gotten him at 30. That's hyperbole at best, and complete fucking nonsense at worst.
It's entirely possible that Denver was targeting him.
2. You find out sooner whether or not he can play
The sooner Jones is the starter the better for the Giants in the long term.
My thinking was that Jones could be the goods if it were an open competition and he earns the job on merit by outperforming Eli
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1. His learning process begins earlier
2. You find out sooner whether or not he can play
The sooner Jones is the starter the better for the Giants in the long term.
My thinking was that Jones could be the goods if it were an open competition and he earns the job on merit by outperforming Eli
That will not be possible. The chances of Eli losing the job in camp are zero.
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In comment 14410992 Go Terps said:
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1. His learning process begins earlier
2. You find out sooner whether or not he can play
The sooner Jones is the starter the better for the Giants in the long term.
My thinking was that Jones could be the goods if it were an open competition and he earns the job on merit by outperforming Eli
That will not be possible. The chances of Eli losing the job in camp are zero.
And there is a major part of the dysfunction in the organization in a nutshell
2. You find out sooner whether or not he can play
The sooner Jones is the starter the better for the Giants in the long term.
Or he gets bombarded and stunts his growth. Even teams that don’t have a bet like Eli or Smith last year in kc always brings in a bet guy to keep the seat warm till the kids ready. Sometimes he wins the job in camp more times than not he will sit till he’s ready.
The staff will get to gauge where he’s at in camp and preseason and probably will have a timetable on when he could be ready if we struggle
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1. His learning process begins earlier
2. You find out sooner whether or not he can play
The sooner Jones is the starter the better for the Giants in the long term.
Or he gets bombarded and stunts his growth. Even teams that don’t have a bet like Eli or Smith last year in kc always brings in a bet guy to keep the seat warm till the kids ready. Sometimes he wins the job in camp more times than not he will sit till he’s ready.
The staff will get to gauge where he’s at in camp and preseason and probably will have a timetable on when he could be ready if we struggle
I could live with a 2004 redux where Eli is Warner and Jones is Eli