It has only been the last two decades when we've seen the emergence of the black college quarterback.
Who has been the QB of the New York Giants for the last 15 years?
Do the fucking math.
I was actually asking about the last 95 years not just the last 15. Twenty seven teams seemed to be able to find quarterbacks of color before Eli was drafted. Just curious what you think happened happened the other 80 years?
However we disagree on this proving racist motives for QB selection. I am quite sure Saquon Barkley is the face of the franchise today... and the Giants would have picked a green polka dotted guy if they thought he was the best QB.
This, if we were such a racist organization we would have picked one of the many top rated QB’s in last year’s draft over Barkley. That means Denver and Cincy, and Miami must all be racist as well since they needed QB’s and all passed on Haskins.
RE: RE: It's hard to miss the point as completely as some are. Â
Though we have a history of posts which I guess makes it unsurprising.
No ones missing the point at all.
Some people want to throw libelous allegations around without fear of consequence. And without fully recognizing that when they do so, they are implicating themselves as bigots.
Point out where I made such an accusation? You continuously quote me as a bigot that believes the team is racist. All I did was address your initial argument (which was stupid btw) and then you proceed to spew nonsense
anti semitic for not trading for Rosen. Nonsense and sour grapes. They took who they thought was their best guy. Haskins was slow. fat and out of shape at his combine workout. Whos fault was that ? He never moved, threw from the same spot pass after pass. that turned me off on him. He only played in a dozen college games as well.
I guess I'm not surprised. There's a lot of reasons to criticize the Giants picking Jones instead of Haskins, but their race is just so, so lazy.
Skin color aside, they are incredibly different prospects. One played 3 years with a bad cast and the other played one year with a great cast. The choice to pick one over the other can be justified just on the numbers and what they did on the field. There's no reason to make it more than that.
The only problem this organization doesn't have is racism Â
can point to a span of 30 years and point mainly to 2 starting QBs (Simms and Eli). That's quite a big chunk of time which was going to limit the opportunity for any QB to play other than those 2.
Honestly, I was going to start a separate thread about Jones at some point, but Jones is a super safe QB for the Giants, and it has nothing to do with the color of his skin. The Giants want a QB who is going to run their offense, fit in their system and not make mistakes, quick passes, short passes, etc. Bringing in Tate and extending Shepard, 2 guys who are underneath WRs, and Tate who has a good RAC, fits this scheme.
What we know about Jones is that he's not going to wow anyone with any particular skill. He is pretty much ok in all areas and comes from the Cutcliffe coaching which means the Giants coaches won't have to do too much to get him ready to play in the NFL. This year is a transition year with Eli and the Giants are hoping not to have to hit a reset button in 2020, but rather have a smooth transition. I think they pretty much know what Jones is going to do.
This is a typical, Giants conservative pick at QB since they don't like surprises. Getting a Cutcliffe QB, after being with Eli for 15 years, to run an offense that will fit his skillset and he will likely ultimately become a game manager QB, who we all hope has a higher upside at the end of all this.
So the real question is, Jones or Haskins if we are going with Carter's accusation. I saw Godeep13 post on this thread, and I know he posted a thread earlier in last week which had some good asshat info in there, and was deleted to protect his source. As I recall, Godeep13 is African American and he said that Haskins' body type looks to be one in which he is going to end up being a heavier QB. Not a Jared Lorenzon just a big fat guy, but that is what Haskins' build, as he gets older, he's not going to slim down. You want a more mobile QB to move around in the pocket, hit quick passes, maybe scramble for a first down as needed, etc. Jones will do that better than Haskins, though Haskins' arm will likely always be stronger.
For me personally, I would have been excited to see a Kyler Murray here only because the Giants have not had a weapon like that at QB maybe since Tarkinton. Hostetler was the last scrambling QB, that was nearly 30 years ago. But I don't think the Giants are racist. Maybe they need Cutcliffe to recruit an African American QB at Duke ;)
So the team that has hired a black GM, black director college scouting, hired black coordinators, hired black scouts and other front office personnel, whose roster has been predominately black for decades, have decided to conspiratorially prevent a black man from ever becoming a quarterback of the team?
So Jerry Reese (who is black) and Marc Ross (who is black) went along with this?
Identity politics has warped your minds.
No. First, every NFL team is predominantly black. Second, to me racism means that race is a factor in a decision or judgement. I rarely call anyone a racist because race is an omnipresent factor in American life. That type of decision making would need to be persistent for me to call them a racist. People who claim to be color blind are just being blind. Do I believe picking Jones over Haskins was based exclusively or even primarily due to race? No. But I think it is just naive not to believe that in weighing which QB to pick, race and fan reaction did play a factor.
I suppose you believe that it isn’t fair to Mara and mgt. But our nations history makes it difficult for people like me not to see it as a possibility and something that is worth talking about.
Again, look at EVERY Chris Carter take ever on the Giants. Â
Is that one of the reasons the Giants drafted Jones is because he is a much more mobile QB. That is what Shurmur wants for his offense. That's what Gruden wanted as well.
How does an NFL team draft black quarterbacks when there were not many black quarterbacks in college football 30, 40, 50 years ago?
Nah, it's easier for you to slander without actually thinking this through.
I guess the Giants really should have drafted Jack Thompson over Phil Simms in 1979 so we wouldn't be having this conversation?
The 27 other teams I mentioned. If it was so hard to find black QBs in the last 95 years. Why were they able to find black quarterbacks when the Giants couldn’t?
He is assuming Daniel Jones and Eli are the same QB because of the color of their skin and because they look alike. The truth is they are very different. Daniel Jones is a mobile athletic QB who is threat to break off a big run. Eli is strictly a pocket passer but hey all white guys look alike am I right?
Though we have a history of posts which I guess makes it unsurprising.
No ones missing the point at all.
Some people want to throw libelous allegations around without fear of consequence. And without fully recognizing that when they do so, they are implicating themselves as bigots.
Point out where I made such an accusation? You continuously quote me as a bigot that believes the team is racist. All I did was address your initial argument (which was stupid btw) and then you proceed to spew nonsense
The point was clear enough. Suppose you cheer for a team that is run by bigots. Then you are part of the problem.
So for example, and speaking of myself only. I could not root for a team named after a racial slur (Redskins). People criticize the Chiefs for having thugs on their team (Hill, Hunt), but it is the Browns that took Hunt after they knew he was a problem. I have zero respect for the team that takes Hunt in after the Chiefs let him go.
The general point is that you can’t get all high and mighty when you root for an unprincipled team. If you think they are unprincipled you have to speak out or change your allegiance.
The Giants don't want a black QB because they are racist but they have no problem hiring a black general manager and a black director of college scouting?
The point made above about being the face of the franchise is valid. Can’t compare that with some behind the scenes guy. All I know is that the Maras have almost always preferred that the face of the franchise to come from Dixie.
Barkley is the face of the franchise and I don’t see that changing
explain why Jerry Reese and Marc Ross went along with their supposed anti-black QB agenda and never mentioned the owners racist ways? Marc Ross has been shitting on the Giants every time he is in tv yet he has not mentioned once that the organization was racist.
The Giants were very interested in Mahomes two years ago but they weren't aggressive enough trading up for him. Does Mahomes count or should we just ignore that and continue trying to ruin the Giants reputation by making baseless accusations?
Please tell me why you are endorsing a race-based organization like the New York Giants? Are you a closet QB white supremacist?
You seem very angry and I can tell that’s affecting your thinking because I’m pretty sure Phil Simms and Eli haven’t been the only two quarterbacks for the last century.
its about character for gettleman, haskins is brash and loud ie his "league done messed up" comments etc whereas jones was humble and thankful for his name being called that was the dynamic they wanted he sounds and acts like eli and that was the type of traits they wanted in his sucessor
if he was black and had the same demeanor they would still have drafted him just the same ,race had nothing to do with it
it was his character they loved not his skin colour
They fired him because they are racist? They hired him over DG and he worked in that role for a decade. He got fired because he ran about six shitty drafts in a row which put our team in the toilet of the NFL.
When you view the world through a racial prism, this is the kind of crap you get.
Some of you are embarrassing yourselves.
Too quickly do we state racism even when it doesn’t exist. It prevents us from discussing real issues because we are immediately fractured. The Gmen chose Jones for their own reasons and I believe none of them are due to his skin color. These constant discussions about race and hatred are exhausting and counter productive.
The NFL's farm system is college football.
It has only been the last two decades when we've seen the emergence of the black college quarterback.
Who has been the QB of the New York Giants for the last 15 years?
Do the fucking math.
I was actually asking about the last 95 years not just the last 15. Twenty seven teams seemed to be able to find quarterbacks of color before Eli was drafted. Just curious what you think happened happened the other 80 years?
This, if we were such a racist organization we would have picked one of the many top rated QB’s in last year’s draft over Barkley. That means Denver and Cincy, and Miami must all be racist as well since they needed QB’s and all passed on Haskins.
Quote:
Though we have a history of posts which I guess makes it unsurprising.
No ones missing the point at all.
Some people want to throw libelous allegations around without fear of consequence. And without fully recognizing that when they do so, they are implicating themselves as bigots.
Point out where I made such an accusation? You continuously quote me as a bigot that believes the team is racist. All I did was address your initial argument (which was stupid btw) and then you proceed to spew nonsense
Dude, I'm just trying to stay off this thread (except for a couple of jokes) so I don't get banned again. It ain't easy.
But, if I was going to do another parody, it would probably be of "Ebony & Ivory."
Skin color aside, they are incredibly different prospects. One played 3 years with a bad cast and the other played one year with a great cast. The choice to pick one over the other can be justified just on the numbers and what they did on the field. There's no reason to make it more than that.
Honestly, I was going to start a separate thread about Jones at some point, but Jones is a super safe QB for the Giants, and it has nothing to do with the color of his skin. The Giants want a QB who is going to run their offense, fit in their system and not make mistakes, quick passes, short passes, etc. Bringing in Tate and extending Shepard, 2 guys who are underneath WRs, and Tate who has a good RAC, fits this scheme.
What we know about Jones is that he's not going to wow anyone with any particular skill. He is pretty much ok in all areas and comes from the Cutcliffe coaching which means the Giants coaches won't have to do too much to get him ready to play in the NFL. This year is a transition year with Eli and the Giants are hoping not to have to hit a reset button in 2020, but rather have a smooth transition. I think they pretty much know what Jones is going to do.
This is a typical, Giants conservative pick at QB since they don't like surprises. Getting a Cutcliffe QB, after being with Eli for 15 years, to run an offense that will fit his skillset and he will likely ultimately become a game manager QB, who we all hope has a higher upside at the end of all this.
So the real question is, Jones or Haskins if we are going with Carter's accusation. I saw Godeep13 post on this thread, and I know he posted a thread earlier in last week which had some good asshat info in there, and was deleted to protect his source. As I recall, Godeep13 is African American and he said that Haskins' body type looks to be one in which he is going to end up being a heavier QB. Not a Jared Lorenzon just a big fat guy, but that is what Haskins' build, as he gets older, he's not going to slim down. You want a more mobile QB to move around in the pocket, hit quick passes, maybe scramble for a first down as needed, etc. Jones will do that better than Haskins, though Haskins' arm will likely always be stronger.
For me personally, I would have been excited to see a Kyler Murray here only because the Giants have not had a weapon like that at QB maybe since Tarkinton. Hostetler was the last scrambling QB, that was nearly 30 years ago. But I don't think the Giants are racist. Maybe they need Cutcliffe to recruit an African American QB at Duke ;)
So the team that has hired a black GM, black director college scouting, hired black coordinators, hired black scouts and other front office personnel, whose roster has been predominately black for decades, have decided to conspiratorially prevent a black man from ever becoming a quarterback of the team?
So Jerry Reese (who is black) and Marc Ross (who is black) went along with this?
Identity politics has warped your minds.
No. First, every NFL team is predominantly black. Second, to me racism means that race is a factor in a decision or judgement. I rarely call anyone a racist because race is an omnipresent factor in American life. That type of decision making would need to be persistent for me to call them a racist. People who claim to be color blind are just being blind. Do I believe picking Jones over Haskins was based exclusively or even primarily due to race? No. But I think it is just naive not to believe that in weighing which QB to pick, race and fan reaction did play a factor.
I suppose you believe that it isn’t fair to Mara and mgt. But our nations history makes it difficult for people like me not to see it as a possibility and something that is worth talking about.
How does an NFL team draft black quarterbacks when there were not many black quarterbacks in college football 30, 40, 50 years ago?
Nah, it's easier for you to slander without actually thinking this through.
I guess the Giants really should have drafted Jack Thompson over Phil Simms in 1979 so we wouldn't be having this conversation?
If you insist on hiring a person because their black then your being racist against other races.
HOLY SHIT.
HAVE YOU SEEN THE FAN REACTION TO THE GIANTS DRAFTING DANIEL JONES?
YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS STUFF UP.
My thoughts exactly. Haha.
Pete Carroll says we’ll trade Russell Wilson (my favorite player in the NFL) for Jones ...
Does anyone think DG wouldn’t take those trades ?
Seriously ... this racial stuff is getting out of control.
But, besides Geno, I thought that we have had black QBs on the team at least through summer camp, in the past. Am I wrong there?
Again, if you truly believe the Giants make decisions based on race, why are you supporting this team?
That says more about you than the Giants.
But, besides Geno, I thought that we have had black QBs on the team at least through summer camp, in the past. Am I wrong there?
Anthony Wright was one of the backups on the 2007 championship team, along with J-Load.
Quote:
May want to write another parody here. I’m thinking “We Didn’t Start The Fire”
Dude, I'm just trying to stay off this thread (except for a couple of jokes) so I don't get banned again. It ain't easy.
But, if I was going to do another parody, it would probably be of "Ebony & Ivory."
Nah. MJ’s “Black or White”
Go big or go home.
How does an NFL team draft black quarterbacks when there were not many black quarterbacks in college football 30, 40, 50 years ago?
Nah, it's easier for you to slander without actually thinking this through.
I guess the Giants really should have drafted Jack Thompson over Phil Simms in 1979 so we wouldn't be having this conversation?
The 27 other teams I mentioned. If it was so hard to find black QBs in the last 95 years. Why were they able to find black quarterbacks when the Giants couldn’t?
Hooray!!!
Matt in SGS Tweet - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 14419509 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
Though we have a history of posts which I guess makes it unsurprising.
No ones missing the point at all.
Some people want to throw libelous allegations around without fear of consequence. And without fully recognizing that when they do so, they are implicating themselves as bigots.
Point out where I made such an accusation? You continuously quote me as a bigot that believes the team is racist. All I did was address your initial argument (which was stupid btw) and then you proceed to spew nonsense
The point was clear enough. Suppose you cheer for a team that is run by bigots. Then you are part of the problem.
So for example, and speaking of myself only. I could not root for a team named after a racial slur (Redskins). People criticize the Chiefs for having thugs on their team (Hill, Hunt), but it is the Browns that took Hunt after they knew he was a problem. I have zero respect for the team that takes Hunt in after the Chiefs let him go.
The general point is that you can’t get all high and mighty when you root for an unprincipled team. If you think they are unprincipled you have to speak out or change your allegiance.
The world can offer some of the most beautiful metaphors out of the blue sometimes.
Quote:
In comment 14419530 Hsilwek92 said:
Quote:
May want to write another parody here. I’m thinking “We Didn’t Start The Fire”
Dude, I'm just trying to stay off this thread (except for a couple of jokes) so I don't get banned again. It ain't easy.
But, if I was going to do another parody, it would probably be of "Ebony & Ivory."
Nah. MJ’s “Black or White”
Go big or go home.
That song blows.
Maybe "Black & White" by Three Dog Night, or...you know what? "Everyday People," by Sly and the Family Stone. "Everyday QB's." Ha!
Quote:
The Giants don't want a black QB because they are racist but they have no problem hiring a black general manager and a black director of college scouting?
The point made above about being the face of the franchise is valid. Can’t compare that with some behind the scenes guy. All I know is that the Maras have almost always preferred that the face of the franchise to come from Dixie.
Barkley is the face of the franchise and I don’t see that changing
Hooray!!! Matt in SGS Tweet - ( New Window )
Hey, I just wanted Josh Allen ;)
The Giants were very interested in Mahomes two years ago but they weren't aggressive enough trading up for him. Does Mahomes count or should we just ignore that and continue trying to ruin the Giants reputation by making baseless accusations?
How long was Phil Simms here?
How long has Eli Manning been here?
Please tell me why you are endorsing a race-based organization like the New York Giants? Are you a closet QB white supremacist?
Again, if you truly believe the Giants make decisions based on race, why are you supporting this team?
That says more about you than the Giants.
The version of the Giants you think some of us are talking about are exclusionist. That actively move to exclude black quarterbacks.
What we’re actually discussing is an organization that may or may not have a subconscious preference for white quarterbacks.
They’re absolutely not the same thing. The former is a caricature.
How long was Phil Simms here?
How long has Eli Manning been here?
Please tell me why you are endorsing a race-based organization like the New York Giants? Are you a closet QB white supremacist?
You seem very angry and I can tell that’s affecting your thinking because I’m pretty sure Phil Simms and Eli haven’t been the only two quarterbacks for the last century.
You are CLEARLY alleging the Giants are a bigoted organization, that they make their decisions based on race.
Own it. That's clearly your implication.
And by supporting the team, you are clearly OK with bigoted organizations.
I find that repulsive.
if he was black and had the same demeanor they would still have drafted him just the same ,race had nothing to do with it
it was his character they loved not his skin colour
But because this draft had Haskins and the Giants passed,factor in ESPN being the scum of the earth,and this is what you get.
College football did not start producing black quarterbacks en masse until the last couple of decades.
Phil Simms and Eli Manning were the QBs for this team for for a total of three decades.
How do you not understand that math?
Quote:
About the former GM being black
They fired him.
They fired him because they are racist? They hired him over DG and he worked in that role for a decade. He got fired because he ran about six shitty drafts in a row which put our team in the toilet of the NFL.
Some of you are embarrassing yourselves.
Too quickly do we state racism even when it doesn’t exist. It prevents us from discussing real issues because we are immediately fractured. The Gmen chose Jones for their own reasons and I believe none of them are due to his skin color. These constant discussions about race and hatred are exhausting and counter productive.