This take has been on Twitter & it’s outrageous that people can just throw this out there.
Daniel Jones is white & boring, so let’s pound the Giants for being racist. So, it isn’t insulting to Jones to say he wouldn’t be drafted if he were black?
Just brutal.
RE: Man, somebody lock this thread before people start getting banned. Â
Is Racist! He has on multiple occasions made suggestive racial comments in the past. To make such an allegation with no evidence on a national sports show part of the problem today with the racial divide!!!!!!!
Again, if you truly believe the Giants make decisions based on race, why are you supporting this team?
That says more about you than the Giants.
The version of the Giants you think some of us are talking about are exclusionist. That actively move to exclude black quarterbacks.
What we’re actually discussing is an organization that may or may not have a subconscious preference for white quarterbacks.
They’re absolutely not the same thing. The former is a caricature.
"subconscious" ??? Stop... you sound like some 1st year gender studies idiot.
So the same owner that hired a black GM is a "subconscious" racist?
"He was fired" he has fired because he was awful at his job.
This BS systemic racism crap is just another way for librals to hold black people down. "Its not your fault you suck at life America is racist" ignoring that fact that we hired a black president...twice, have a black supreme court justice and black people have occupied virtually every know occupation.
What's the ratio of Black athletes to white athletes?
Draft just happened... how many white people were taken vs black people?
Stop with your bull shit race baiting its making the world a worst place
Implicit bias and systemic racism are real. It has nothing to do with politics (or "librals" holding "black people down". The issue here is whether systemic racism is driving the Giants' personnel decisions. I don't think there is any evidence for that. I also think that going in that direction first and foremost is a mistake.
When Geno started in 2017. I have to admit that is quite a long time (almost 100 years as a franchise) to go with one race at that one position. And Geno only started one game, it’s not like he was named the franchise QB.
Also, I don’t know if anyone is saying this was a conscious point. It’s not like their scouting report on Haskins was like “Black, so possibly not smart enough to be QB.” People are more saying it could have been subconscious racism which happens every day in various situations and people don’t even notice it.
Regardless of Haskins’s talent around him at Ohio St., ask yourself: would Daniel Jones also have thrown 50 TDs in that offense and broken Drew Brees’s record? He might have had a nice year but Haskins was truly impressive for being a 1st-year starter. That’s the other thing I don’t get. The knock on Haskins being a starter just one year. Like doesn’t that make what he did even more impressive? Daniel Jones started 3 years and it’s not like he lit it up his 3rd season thanks to all his experience. That tells me he may have already hit his ceiling, right? Also remember that Ohio St offense was not particularly perfectly suited for Haskins’s game, he tailored his game to fit the system and it worked out beautifully.
Maybe you could argue Jones is “smarter” because he went to Duke, but having a high football IQ is an entirely different thing, and Haskins we know had a high football IQ. Hell Lamar Jackson does an awful job in interviews but Ravens coaches raved about how quickly he could digest the playbook and process information and feedback and apply to his game on the field.
I’m not even saying Haskins is going to be a star, but he was clearly a better prospect and we at least know had the potential to be GREAT. Jones was good in college and they’re asking him to be GREAT in the NFL. I think they overthought this one, just my opinion, not my job though so we’ll see. We can’t know what all the factors were that went into the decision but it is true the Giants have had a particular racial bias at that position over the years compared to other teams, that’s just a fact, and it didn’t even necessarily have to be something that was conscious or deliberate.
Haskins isn't mobile. Shurmer wants a QB with some mobility.
Someone should tell Cris what the racial make-up of the New York Giants is (and every other team in the NFL).
It’s a stupid, ignorant statement to say Jones wouldn’t have been drafted had he been black and I expect nothing less from The Fall Guy. However, Eric, there has been a history of racial bias against black QBs in the NFL. I don’t buy your argument.
So you are rooting for a racist team? Nice.
Not my point at all. Damn you missed this one. My point is your argument is weak. Just because NFL rosters are predominantly black does not mean there hasn’t been or isn’t a bias against black QBs. I do not think the Giants are a racist organization. If I did, I absolutely would not root for them. Again, it was your point I disagree with.
Some of the most respected institutions in the world... Â
...including some whose mission statements are devoted to human and civil rights, have found implicit bias to be a factor in their own recruiting and hiring for certain positions.
I think Carter’s accusation, as reported, is stupid, insulting clickbait. But that doesn’t mean the Giants shouldn’t review their own scouting and grading processes to ensure that they aren’t inadvertently tipping the scales toward QBs who look, sound, dress and act like Eli Manning. It’s the kind of introspection world-class organizations undertake as one pillar of continuous improvement.
Nothing radical here, nor any accusation of racism. I’m just hoping their minds are open to modern management techniques. The Giants have, historically, been behind the curve in many ways, whether it was Wellington Mara basing his draft picks on magazines and recommendations from neighbors, or Dave Gettleman scoffing at advanced analytics. So it’s not crazy to think that they might be missing something. But I doubt there’s much to see in the Jones/Haskins decision. Rosen? That one is more complicated, and not directly relevant to the subject at hand.
RE: RE: RE: Man, somebody lock this thread before people start getting banned. Â
I'm surprised Carter doesn't also think they traded OBJ because he is black.
Hard to make that argument when Peppers comes back in the trade. If it had been Vernon and OBJ for just picks, you might have heard it louder.
I think the Giants drafted 10 guys yesterday and 8 were black (I wan't looking up photos for some of the late guys, but I think that's right), so Carter has to be pretty selective to get to this accusation. It's QB and only QB.
Someone should tell Cris what the racial make-up of the New York Giants is (and every other team in the NFL).
Not saying I buy it, but thats not the argument. Its a supposed bias against black qbs not everyday players. It was not until last year that the Giants started a black qb (the last franchise to do so), which is a bit odd but hey who knows.
Considering that Eli Manning hasn't missed a snap since 2004 that's a silly argument. How many QBs had their first black QB start in that time frame?
Still, the lack of black QBs on the field, in meaningful games, for the Giants, is weird.
the Giants have gone a decade and a half with the same guy. Were they supposed to previously have a black QB for "meaningful games"??
And what is meaningful? The Patriots haven't had a black QB for meaningful games, especially with Brady there. The Chargers haven't since Rivers has been there. The Packers didn't while Favre was there. The Colts didn't when Manning was there.
D oteams like the Lions get some special consideration because a couple decades ago Rodney Peete was their guy? Why not while Stafford is there? Work one in for an occasional start?I mean the Bengals had Jeff Blake sandwiched in between Esiason and Dalton, but nobody else for "meaningful games".
I'm not sure what your point is supposed to be. I'm assuming "meaningful games" is code for Geno Smith's start not counting. Right?
The Giants drafted Saquon to be the face of the franchise.. Â
Someone should tell Cris what the racial make-up of the New York Giants is (and every other team in the NFL).
Not saying I buy it, but thats not the argument. Its a supposed bias against black qbs not everyday players. It was not until last year that the Giants started a black qb (the last franchise to do so), which is a bit odd but hey who knows.
Considering that Eli Manning hasn't missed a snap since 2004 that's a silly argument. How many QBs had their first black QB start in that time frame?
I meant hadn't to that point and hasn't missed a start rather than a snap.
That it's possible to think that Cris Carter is way off base, believe that race baiting happens, and also believe that claiming "librals" are conspiring to hold black people down is asinine.
That it's possible to think that Cris Carter is way off base, believe that race baiting happens, and also believe that claiming "librals" are conspiring to hold black people down is asinine.
Damaging to a legit issue that has existed in the NFL for decades. Black QBs have been disenfranchised by teams for so long but that trend has started to change lately. this is what happens when reporters end up emotionally invested in the player being drafted.
Decades ago, we had Moon & McNair & Cunningham. Now we have Wilson. Also Doug Williams won an SB. All pretty good. I'd add Cam as having been successful (tho many say he sucks) and Watson a wait-and-see, but...
Lets look at quality. Vick? Quincy Carter? RGIII? Geno? Freeman? Winston? Taylor? Dak? Josh Johnson? Maybe those available are always hurt or just suck? I'd accuse this view as being 'good QB-ist' (and it's despicable!)
And apparently it's NOT showing up to the combine out of shape, being relatively immobile, that kept Haskins from NYG (ignoring Jones' high work ethic & toughness for a sec). It's cuz he's black (ignoring Geno starting for Eli...facts meh)
Damaging to a legit issue that has existed in the NFL for decades. Black QBs have been disenfranchised by teams for so long but that trend has started to change lately. this is what happens when reporters end up emotionally invested in the player being drafted.
No. The issue at hand is the slanderous accusation that the New York Giants are run by a bunch of bigots.
Am I getting this right? Is that how it works? Let me know because I'm new to this.
Damn. Now you’re just making stuff up. How am I a bigot? I would love to hear how you concluded that from my comments. All I said was I do not agree with your initial argument.
the Giants have played 600 games in their history and only in 1 Game has African American started as QB
you want to tell me during all those 94 years it was just coincidence and circumstance they could not find one African American player with enough talent to start as QB ?
Geno Smith played as well as Manning in the game played -- he might have played even better than Eli if he was allowed to start the rest of the season -- you don't think a percentage of the rage and anger from Giants fans was the fact that it was an African American who replaced Eli?
a question how many Giants BACKUP QBs have been African American?
They would never have even visited Haskins at his pro day or had him up to NY for a visit. They wouldn’t have considered him at all.
Also, I don’t get why it’s wrong or a negative to want QBs to be like Eli. We’ve done pretty darn well by Eli. Not just the SBs or the longevity but in how he carries himself publicly and by how he represents the franchise. I hope every QB we ever have is like Eli.
the Giants have played 600 games in their history and only in 1 Game has African American started as QB
you want to tell me during all those 94 years it was just coincidence and circumstance they could not find one African American player with enough talent to start as QB ?
Geno Smith played as well as Manning in the game played -- he might have played even better than Eli if he was allowed to start the rest of the season -- you don't think a percentage of the rage and anger from Giants fans was the fact that it was an African American who replaced Eli?
a question how many Giants BACKUP QBs have been African American?
(1) Look at who was playing quarterback in collegiate ranks for each decade in the past 100 years. (i.e., how many black quarterbacks were in the NFL Draft in 1950? 1960? 1970? 1980?)
(2) Phil Simms and Eli Manning have been the starting quarterback of the New York Giants for 30 of the last 40 years.
Daniel Jones is white & boring, so let’s pound the Giants for being racist. So, it isn’t insulting to Jones to say he wouldn’t be drafted if he were black?
Just brutal.
I agree. Like, Scatagories. Hungry Hungry Hippos IS a fucking toy. Which means triple points.
Quote:
In comment 14419563 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I've said what I needed to say on this thread.
Again, if you truly believe the Giants make decisions based on race, why are you supporting this team?
That says more about you than the Giants.
The version of the Giants you think some of us are talking about are exclusionist. That actively move to exclude black quarterbacks.
What we’re actually discussing is an organization that may or may not have a subconscious preference for white quarterbacks.
They’re absolutely not the same thing. The former is a caricature.
"subconscious" ??? Stop... you sound like some 1st year gender studies idiot.
So the same owner that hired a black GM is a "subconscious" racist?
"He was fired" he has fired because he was awful at his job.
This BS systemic racism crap is just another way for librals to hold black people down. "Its not your fault you suck at life America is racist" ignoring that fact that we hired a black president...twice, have a black supreme court justice and black people have occupied virtually every know occupation.
What's the ratio of Black athletes to white athletes?
Draft just happened... how many white people were taken vs black people?
Stop with your bull shit race baiting its making the world a worst place
Implicit bias and systemic racism are real. It has nothing to do with politics (or "librals" holding "black people down". The issue here is whether systemic racism is driving the Giants' personnel decisions. I don't think there is any evidence for that. I also think that going in that direction first and foremost is a mistake.
Quote:
There's plenty of other stuff to argue about.
I agree. Like, Scatagories. Hungry Hungry Hippos IS a fucking toy. Which means triple points.
Is a hot dog in a bun a sandwich?
Also, I don’t know if anyone is saying this was a conscious point. It’s not like their scouting report on Haskins was like “Black, so possibly not smart enough to be QB.” People are more saying it could have been subconscious racism which happens every day in various situations and people don’t even notice it.
Regardless of Haskins’s talent around him at Ohio St., ask yourself: would Daniel Jones also have thrown 50 TDs in that offense and broken Drew Brees’s record? He might have had a nice year but Haskins was truly impressive for being a 1st-year starter. That’s the other thing I don’t get. The knock on Haskins being a starter just one year. Like doesn’t that make what he did even more impressive? Daniel Jones started 3 years and it’s not like he lit it up his 3rd season thanks to all his experience. That tells me he may have already hit his ceiling, right? Also remember that Ohio St offense was not particularly perfectly suited for Haskins’s game, he tailored his game to fit the system and it worked out beautifully.
Maybe you could argue Jones is “smarter” because he went to Duke, but having a high football IQ is an entirely different thing, and Haskins we know had a high football IQ. Hell Lamar Jackson does an awful job in interviews but Ravens coaches raved about how quickly he could digest the playbook and process information and feedback and apply to his game on the field.
I’m not even saying Haskins is going to be a star, but he was clearly a better prospect and we at least know had the potential to be GREAT. Jones was good in college and they’re asking him to be GREAT in the NFL. I think they overthought this one, just my opinion, not my job though so we’ll see. We can’t know what all the factors were that went into the decision but it is true the Giants have had a particular racial bias at that position over the years compared to other teams, that’s just a fact, and it didn’t even necessarily have to be something that was conscious or deliberate.
Haskins isn't mobile. Shurmer wants a QB with some mobility.
Quote:
In comment 14419338 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Someone should tell Cris what the racial make-up of the New York Giants is (and every other team in the NFL).
It’s a stupid, ignorant statement to say Jones wouldn’t have been drafted had he been black and I expect nothing less from The Fall Guy. However, Eric, there has been a history of racial bias against black QBs in the NFL. I don’t buy your argument.
So you are rooting for a racist team? Nice.
Not my point at all. Damn you missed this one. My point is your argument is weak. Just because NFL rosters are predominantly black does not mean there hasn’t been or isn’t a bias against black QBs. I do not think the Giants are a racist organization. If I did, I absolutely would not root for them. Again, it was your point I disagree with.
I think Carter’s accusation, as reported, is stupid, insulting clickbait. But that doesn’t mean the Giants shouldn’t review their own scouting and grading processes to ensure that they aren’t inadvertently tipping the scales toward QBs who look, sound, dress and act like Eli Manning. It’s the kind of introspection world-class organizations undertake as one pillar of continuous improvement.
Nothing radical here, nor any accusation of racism. I’m just hoping their minds are open to modern management techniques. The Giants have, historically, been behind the curve in many ways, whether it was Wellington Mara basing his draft picks on magazines and recommendations from neighbors, or Dave Gettleman scoffing at advanced analytics. So it’s not crazy to think that they might be missing something. But I doubt there’s much to see in the Jones/Haskins decision. Rosen? That one is more complicated, and not directly relevant to the subject at hand.
Quote:
In comment 14419701 Klaatu said:
Quote:
There's plenty of other stuff to argue about.
I agree. Like, Scatagories. Hungry Hungry Hippos IS a fucking toy. Which means triple points.
Is a hot dog in a bun a sandwich?
Yes of course, as is a taco
Agree sir!
Quote:
In comment 14419701 Klaatu said:
Quote:
There's plenty of other stuff to argue about.
I agree. Like, Scatagories. Hungry Hungry Hippos IS a fucking toy. Which means triple points.
Is a hot dog in a bun a sandwich?
I don’t even know anymore. Apparently, I’m not supposed to put ketchup on them.
Quote:
In comment 14419708 Hsilwek92 said:
Quote:
In comment 14419701 Klaatu said:
Quote:
There's plenty of other stuff to argue about.
I agree. Like, Scatagories. Hungry Hungry Hippos IS a fucking toy. Which means triple points.
Is a hot dog in a bun a sandwich?
Yes of course, as is a taco
Oh come on! Can we keep nothing sacred anymore!?
As if BBI is any better?
I think the Giants drafted 10 guys yesterday and 8 were black (I wan't looking up photos for some of the late guys, but I think that's right), so Carter has to be pretty selective to get to this accusation. It's QB and only QB.
Quote:
Someone should tell Cris what the racial make-up of the New York Giants is (and every other team in the NFL).
Not saying I buy it, but thats not the argument. Its a supposed bias against black qbs not everyday players. It was not until last year that the Giants started a black qb (the last franchise to do so), which is a bit odd but hey who knows.
Considering that Eli Manning hasn't missed a snap since 2004 that's a silly argument. How many QBs had their first black QB start in that time frame?
the Giants have gone a decade and a half with the same guy. Were they supposed to previously have a black QB for "meaningful games"??
And what is meaningful? The Patriots haven't had a black QB for meaningful games, especially with Brady there. The Chargers haven't since Rivers has been there. The Packers didn't while Favre was there. The Colts didn't when Manning was there.
D oteams like the Lions get some special consideration because a couple decades ago Rodney Peete was their guy? Why not while Stafford is there? Work one in for an occasional start?I mean the Bengals had Jeff Blake sandwiched in between Esiason and Dalton, but nobody else for "meaningful games".
I'm not sure what your point is supposed to be. I'm assuming "meaningful games" is code for Geno Smith's start not counting. Right?
Quote:
In comment 14419338 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Someone should tell Cris what the racial make-up of the New York Giants is (and every other team in the NFL).
Not saying I buy it, but thats not the argument. Its a supposed bias against black qbs not everyday players. It was not until last year that the Giants started a black qb (the last franchise to do so), which is a bit odd but hey who knows.
Considering that Eli Manning hasn't missed a snap since 2004 that's a silly argument. How many QBs had their first black QB start in that time frame?
I meant hadn't to that point and hasn't missed a start rather than a snap.
Posters, evidence?
I suspect there is none.
+
They had a black General Manager that oversees the whole organization... It not about race!
Some of you are embarrassing yourselves.
I just saw this response. I think you are doing a damn good job embarrassing yourself.
Try visiting any other forum discussing this topic.
You passionately support a racist football team.
Am I getting this right? Is that how it works? Let me know because I'm new to this.
Lets look at quality. Vick? Quincy Carter? RGIII? Geno? Freeman? Winston? Taylor? Dak? Josh Johnson? Maybe those available are always hurt or just suck? I'd accuse this view as being 'good QB-ist' (and it's despicable!)
And apparently it's NOT showing up to the combine out of shape, being relatively immobile, that kept Haskins from NYG (ignoring Jones' high work ethic & toughness for a sec). It's cuz he's black (ignoring Geno starting for Eli...facts meh)
Quote:
When you view the world through a racial prism, this is the kind of crap you get.
Some of you are embarrassing yourselves.
I just saw this response. I think you are doing a damn good job embarrassing yourself.
Read through the thread more carefully.
No. The issue at hand is the slanderous accusation that the New York Giants are run by a bunch of bigots.
That's the issue. Don't deflect.
I'm not sure if that's good or bad...
You passionately support a racist football team.
Am I getting this right? Is that how it works? Let me know because I'm new to this.
Damn. Now you’re just making stuff up. How am I a bigot? I would love to hear how you concluded that from my comments. All I said was I do not agree with your initial argument.
the Giants have played 600 games in their history and only in 1 Game has African American started as QB
you want to tell me during all those 94 years it was just coincidence and circumstance they could not find one African American player with enough talent to start as QB ?
Geno Smith played as well as Manning in the game played -- he might have played even better than Eli if he was allowed to start the rest of the season -- you don't think a percentage of the rage and anger from Giants fans was the fact that it was an African American who replaced Eli?
a question how many Giants BACKUP QBs have been African American?
If so, you are supporting a racist football team. What does that say about you?
Also, I don’t get why it’s wrong or a negative to want QBs to be like Eli. We’ve done pretty darn well by Eli. Not just the SBs or the longevity but in how he carries himself publicly and by how he represents the franchise. I hope every QB we ever have is like Eli.
I'm not sure if that's good or bad...
Giants are racist against white WRs. FACT.
the Giants have played 600 games in their history and only in 1 Game has African American started as QB
you want to tell me during all those 94 years it was just coincidence and circumstance they could not find one African American player with enough talent to start as QB ?
Geno Smith played as well as Manning in the game played -- he might have played even better than Eli if he was allowed to start the rest of the season -- you don't think a percentage of the rage and anger from Giants fans was the fact that it was an African American who replaced Eli?
a question how many Giants BACKUP QBs have been African American?
(1) Look at who was playing quarterback in collegiate ranks for each decade in the past 100 years. (i.e., how many black quarterbacks were in the NFL Draft in 1950? 1960? 1970? 1980?)
(2) Phil Simms and Eli Manning have been the starting quarterback of the New York Giants for 30 of the last 40 years.
Want to re-think your points?
I personally think the Redskins and the Giants were only seeking to improve their teams during this draft.
I also think the Redskins need to change their name ...
Fucking mongs.
In the past decade alone you have at least three:
- Andre Woodson
- Josh Johnson
- Geno Smith
I'm pretty confident that we aren't last in the NFL for black backups lately.
Fucking mongs.
People don't have feelings on this issue. They are just not as smart as you.