No that a few days have passed and the dust has settled on this week's tragic thread (you all know the one to which I am referring), I wanted say a few things to the BBI Community.
Threads like the one that happened this week are not a laughing matter. I see folks making jokes about it. The internet community as a whole has a problem of mob bullying. Singling out a poster for ridicule. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the individual poster in question behaved well, but for sure the BBI community piled on, ridiculed and didn't let it go. We are all bonded by a common love for our football team. I would hope that we can take the high road in these situations. To some extent, I know how the target poster felt, I have been the target poster on some threads for posts I would to this day defend if I cared to. I don't think I said anything wrong. Part of the problem with the internet is that we can't see body language, intonation and various other subtle forms of communication. It leaves our posts open to interpretation at times.
I for one will not engage in a mob pile-up on a poster. Its a tragic situation. How would some of you feel if you later found out that the poster truly had psychological issues and committed suicide shortly after a tragic thread. Nothing good comes out of those threads. Now this does not mean I won't fire back at somebody that trolls me, or call bullshit on another post. But if the mob kicks in, I'm out.
I have seen numerous posts this week calling that thread an all time classic. Its not an all time classic. Its an all time embarrassment. I would like to think we are better than that.
I hope that the vast majority of posters here are mature enough to help avoid adding fuel to the fire on these tragic threads. Anybody else willing to make the same statement as I have about not ganging up and bullying posters, even when they have said something stupid. Just let it go and walk away.
I originally began by attempting rational discussion using facts, logic, appeals to ethics, truth, etc. Met by complete dismissal of easily checked facts, derision, name calling, threats, I soon devolved into similar behavior rather than just recognizing the futility of further engagement. I began to ridicule them with no hope of persuasion, but somehow took satisfaction in at least exposing their B.S.
When I later re-read some of my posts, I didn't recognize myself and wasn't particularly fond of that person. To me, that thread in question appears as a microcosm of our times, human nature, and the nature of the faceless internet.
Should we just have abandoned the thread and left it to an irrational i
unbalanced individual sprewing slanderous statements with no response? Probably the noble wise thing to do but not the typical human response to attacks. Should BBI thread simply be left to the
unbalanced individuals insulting the site owner and others?
I think that you are making a case for simply banning posters which would be an easy solution. Personally I am against banning except for extreme circumstance and would rather challenge a speaker than silence them. I am also not big on deleting threads and in this case I understand why it was not done by the moderators.
You probably have a point about starting all these follow up threads and we should move on but there is a natural human reaction to discuss things of interest after they have been concluded.
There was a lot of restraint showed to a poster that had a lot of stamina to keep pushing forward that he deserved an apology - to the point that he hurled insult after insult to Eric, arc and others.
Like you said - many pleaded with him to step back and reconsider what was going on. But one can't underestimate the sheer effort to keep that thread alive that day. A poster was literally engaged for 12+ hours on that thread.
And even at the end - even though the act had worn thin, most posters still kept the comments above board. Eris showed the most humor and restraint I've seen from him. And he had some classic one-liners - that weren't even attacks on the guy who started the thread.
There could have been a lot of piling on
Should we just have abandoned the thread and left it to an irrational i
unbalanced individual sprewing slanderous statements with no response? Probably the noble wise thing to do but not the typical human response to attacks. Should BBI thread simply be left to the
unbalanced individuals insulting the site owner and others?
I think that you are making a case for simply banning posters which would be an easy solution. Personally I am against banning except for extreme circumstance and would rather challenge a speaker than silence them. I am also not big on deleting threads and in this case I understand why it was not done by the moderators.
You probably have a point about starting all these follow up threads and we should move on but there is a natural human reaction to discuss things of interest after they have been concluded.
Well, as you said, I didn't see the thread, so I really can't judge it. My comment was more about understanding how its possible for decent people to act out of character in this venue as I am guilty of it myself. I also have always been against banning posters … except maybe for threats of violence. Hated seeing MiS go and several others. I have no good opinions on how to make everyone play nice, and perhaps that shouldn't be the goal. But the variety of personas, make it interesting and what experienced here isn't unique to this site. In fact, probably our shared interest keeps it from going off the rails as much as other social media
Still, you had guys enabling him and chastising those who were resisting him as "the reason asshats don't post here anymore." I guess this final thread put an end to that.
2) He was the aggressor. He was the one name calling and bullying the owner of the site.
3) He continued to produce the very same behavior that led to his ridicule. For days!
That is the least sorry I've ever felt for a poster ever. This wasn't some guy coming here and then being chastised for his looks, intelligence, or a disability... aka things out of his control. He was a willing and aggressive participant--the catalyst--in a thread he started with fake information.
Tolerance implies patience and gentleness with people who are less than perfect, even when they ask for attention.
It's still bullying , even when they "deserve it".
Because we all "deserve it"
Schools struggle with bullying right now because the card is constantly played. We just had a couple situations where bullying didn't apply, yet was alleged. One was when a student didn't turn in their homework and the teacher lectured the entire class about how when you have a week to do an assignment and don't finish it is procrastination and unacceptable. The other was a lacrosse player was benched in the middle of the game for insubordination and his parents filed a complaint because other players were bullying him.
Turns out several players yelled at him to get his head out of his ass.
There is something to the idea that people who seek an odd corner Luke thus to find a voice and validation might already be damaged, and here comes fatty with his bully cudgel.
Shameless bastard.
You can crusade for the little guy if you wish, but not validating a shitty opinion isn't bullying.
There is something to the idea that people who seek an odd corner Luke thus to find a voice and validation might already be damaged, and here comes fatty with his bully cudgel.
Shameless bastard.
So, what does this critical and assumptive post qualify as?
Let me guess; you're just a "voice of reason" sharing your unbiased observations (whilst name-calling and flexing your armchair psychology muscle, of course...) ?
But yes, I'm sure he's just some ruthless poster constantly knocking down 12 year olds testing out pet theories. Those poor kids.
Tolerance implies patience and gentleness with people who are less than perfect, even when they ask for attention.
It's still bullying , even when they "deserve it".
Because we all "deserve it"
But we only have to be tolerant to those that share are viewpoint right? Cause F--k everyone else.
Bingo. Anything that anyone can perceive as critical or oppositional in nature now gets tagged as "bullying".
I try to stay away from people whose behavior is consistently inconsistent with their own self interests. Especially if they are blind to reason or self interest for awhile.
Something else is going on and im not smart enough to figure it out.
So my obligation is only to do no further harm blundering around when I don't know wtf they want or need.
Who has brain cells or time to devote to more chaos? Learning nothing and wasting time and not earning and not producing and not healing is net energy lost to stupid
In general, Martin Buber had a note worth remembering when I can remember it in time: Everybody else's cry of anger is a some kind of cry of pain.
Another kid responded - "let him play with the six year olds then, if he wants to play with the big kids he needs to learn the big kids rules".
I felt compassion for the little kid. After all, he was little and what did it matter if we let him kick a "home run".
But I learned that day that sometimes that just ruins the game for all the other kids. Every time that six year old wanted to come up the game was interrupted. Soon his other little friends also wanted to play. Before long it was late and we couldn't play or finish the game.
BBI is a place treasured because of the great minds that contribute. It's best when we have wiser minds doing most of the posting and the rest of us reading. Compassion has its place, but so does keeping the site intelligent enough to be of interest to everyone else.
(And a reminder to myself that I should post a lot less than I do and read a lot more!)
(And a reminder to myself that I should post a lot less than I do and read a lot more!)
You and me both. Sometimes when my schedule frees up I start posting a bunch. Sooner or later brighter minds speak up and tell me why I'm wrong about something, which is a great reminder to me that my contributions are greatly outweighed by those of quality posters here.
I think we can do both things - but sometimes a poster comes along and insists on posting the same stuff over and over again. It gets old, and worse yet, sometimes it starts getting repeated as fact. Brighter minds try to intervene and correct the thinking but sooner or later, a little harshness in criticism is the best remedy.
as for the claims of 'I repeatedly told him to calm down, but he only got angrier and angrier', well, after the first time or two and seeing the result, maybe one would figure out that it wasn't a very good approach since it was so counter productive. It becomes a case of taunting, no matter how well intentioned, and I'm of the opinion that much, if not most, of it was not well intentioned.
He's not the victim.
True.... plus HE was the one who was throwing around insults.
Hi Steve, I'm not sure if your reply was meant for my post above about deciding to be silent. For any particular thread heading down that same path, choosing the to disengage wouldn't be shunning. Now, if that poster is meant with the same silence on other posts that have nothing to do with their past thread then, yes I see your point.
Personally, I feel it's right to be respectful and polite as much as possible, even if the other chooses to use insults. I am not a big fan of "taking the gloves off" so to speak. I believe there are better ways to handle a hostile situation in regards to a message board discussion. In the past when I have chose to engage with an individual in an insulting manner it was typically because I was allowing my self pride to take control of my actions. My thoughts were a lot of times insulting, but me choosing to allow the thoughts to come out as visual words were fueled by my pride not wanting them to "best" me.
Now this is my personality, and the way I prefer to handle things. What I have said above isn't meant to be a solution for others. I also don't handle every situation perfectly in regards to my standards or beliefs.
I guess "at the end of the day" (Hi Antrel) I have no idea where people are in life, or what is going on in their life or what has happened to them. I also don't have the ability to change anyone's view on life, and I shouldn't be able to. I have only learned a very tiny amount in life, that certainly disqualifies me as a life expert. One thing I have learned is that people tend to look for acceptance, compassion, and understanding. But, to the point, if I attempt to help the person see why others are coming at them in a genuine way and they choose to ignore then to me the best way to handle the situation is to disengage, at least for that subject, not for future unrelated subjects.
It's 🆒
Weeks? It was more than a year. He was pulling the same garbage last year leading up to the draft too, except that his "predictions" (which were really more just preferences that the Giants remain loyal to Eli at all cost) didn't blow up in his face last year, so he got to keep the asshat title that he clearly craved.
This year that changed - not only did the Giants not abide by his personal wishes for Eli when they selected Jones at #6, it also represented a major ding against his asshat cred (in his own perception at least, which made him extra defensive).
That's what triggered that thread and the meltdown that followed, IMO. He was so emotionally invested in not only being seen as an asshat here, but also in the Giants believing in Eli in perpetuity, that when both of those two things evaporated simultaneously, he seemed genuinely distraught.
I feel bad about a lot of the things I posted in that thread - I can't claim innocence here because I felt like he was having a meltdown and I kept poking the bear. I'm not proud of that despite the fact that I didn't think there was anything wrong with pointing out that he was not nearly the credible source that so many believed he was.
If he was in fact experiencing some sort of emotional breakdown, I do hope he gets whatever help he needs.
In my OP I stated that I would not participate in the mob culture of ganging up on some posters. I also asked who else was willing to say the same.
I want to make it clear that the behavior of the poster who was ganged up on is in no way acceptable or easily forgiven. It was reprehensible. He has been here a long time and never behaved that way before. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter, because what matters is that each of us should examine our own behavior and decide if that behavior is that behavior a point or pride or not? How are others perceiving that behavior and is that perception desirable? What are the impacts of that behavior, and are those impacts desirable?
I am not forcing anybody to change their behavior. I am not pointing a finger at anybody, passing judgement, being presumptuous, or as one poster said being a pussy.
It is about taking responsibility for myself, my actions, and working (emphasis on the working) to be a better version of myself than I was the day before. And doing that every day of my life. When I started this thread, I knew that I would get flamed by some. And I make this post knowing that I will get flamed again. Taking responsibility for myself is not presumptuous, it is not passing judgement, it is not preachy. That said, I have the courage of my convictions, to speak up for what I believe in. I leave it to individuals to decide for themselves if they agree or not. But speaking up when you know that some will excoriate you for doing so, is the exact opposite of being a pussy.
And let me be clear on this, it’s not about just BBI. BBI is just a microcosm of the rest of Society. Personal responsibility, honor, and real service to making our society better has never been at a lower point than it is now. The evidence is everywhere. We have a mass shooting once a week, including the one that happened yesterday. Road rage violence. Out of control corporate and personal greed. We have divisive politics threatening our democracy. Suicide rates are at all-time highs, especially amongst children. Hate crimes on the rise. Nuclear proliferation and climate change that present us with serious existential threats. We didn't just suddenly arrive here. As a Society, bit by bit, we have allowed our souls to be eaten, our honor to be eroded, and our personal responsibility abdicated. We all want to get ahead and have a better life, and I am by no mean saying it should not be that way, but it should come with responsibility.
You can say it’s not a big deal it’s just fan message board for a football team. But if I cannot take responsibility for the way I behave here, how is that I can say that I am taking responsibility anywhere else. Am I spending time with my son making sure he is happy, and noticing any changes? Am I teaching him the right values? Am I setting the right examples? Am I doing my best I can to leave him a world and society in which he can thrive when it’s his turn? As a parent, that I must take these responsibilities seriously. I need to set the right example for my son. I need to face him and say that not only am I not participate in the continued erosion of our Earth and society, but that I tried to make it a bit better. As a Society, how far do we need to sink before we start taking responsibility, when does it stop?
There is the aspect of BBI being a rough place, post at your own risk, and in that way, it is self-policing. I even said in my Op that if somebody trolls me, I will fire back, if somebody posts stupid, I will call bullshit. And I encourage that kind of self-policing, otherwise this place will get overwhelmed with stupid, it will lose part of the fun of the hard debate, and be plain boring. However, in this case I agree with fkap, I first opened that thread after about 2 hours. In fact, I saw when it was first created, but I knew just from the title what was going to happen. And the thread itself was exactly as I expected, it was a clear meltdown pretty much from the get go, the thread starter was getting lots of “help”, over, and over, and over again. Even when it was clear that the poster was not reacting well to the “help”, there was no shortage of more “help”. As Bill2 said, I knew I wasn’t in a position to know what the underlying issue was with the poster, and I was not in a position to provide real help. There was simply no benefit to be had by me spending time and posting on the thread.
To tie all this together with the sad and tragic news from Colorado, every time we participate in the disaffection of another human being, we inch a little bit closer to the next Columbine, Sandy Hook, or Parkland. Every time we abdicate responsibility, we allow another nibble on our collective soul, and help create an environment that enables the hate, enables loneliness, enables the corruption, enables the bullies, enables the anger, etc. Will my taking responsibility for my actions on BBI matter in Society as a whole. Probably not. You can criticize me for using the word tragic as a euphemism, but, the point is the little things in life matter, doing lots of little things right eventually adds up to something much bigger, doing them wrong eventually leads to bad results, sometimes tragic results.
I will not participate in a mob culture of hanging up on people. However, again as I and others have said I do not consider that thread a mob attack. Being a chat forum, I will post when I feel like posting saying what I want to say (which is not necessarily part of a mob because I am part of the majority opinion). If I want to try to “help” someone I disagree with I will do so without worrying about those who are on a higher moral plain than me disagreeing and passing judgment.
In my OP I stated that I would not participate in the mob culture of ganging up on some posters. I also asked who else was willing to say the same.
I'm with you. Once the crowd moves in I back away.
That wasn't always the case. In my early years of message boarding I would seek out stupid posts from stupid posters to shred them apart.
I am still a wise ass from time to time but for the most part I keep it focused on the guys who can handle it.
There should be a personal responsibility to deliver material that is worth contributing. There should be a personal responsibility to not create multiple usernames with the intention of trolling a board until banned and then repeat. Those two things alone would elevate the level of discourse
IMO, the tie to Colorado here is misguided. That shooter was a bully. He would whisper into student's ears that he was going to start shooting when pencils hit the floor and then throw pencils on the floor to scare them. He wasn't bullied to the point of snapping or disaffected by other's rebuke. Same with the shooter in Charlotte.
One can be reflective in the wake of tragic events, but let's not pretend that the actions on a thread where a poster self-destructed is a microcosm of anything.
No amount of these threads will ever change that.
No amount of these threads will ever change that.
One could say that goes for any message board. Footles.
Quote:
that being a big shot on BBI or any other site that people frequent is a very big deal to some people. It's curious but it's reality.
No amount of these threads will ever change that.
One could say that goes for any message board. Footles.
May '19. Interesting choice to weigh in on this thread.