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NFT: Stopping Tragic Threads

.McL. : 5/3/2019 7:32 pm
No that a few days have passed and the dust has settled on this week's tragic thread (you all know the one to which I am referring), I wanted say a few things to the BBI Community.

Threads like the one that happened this week are not a laughing matter. I see folks making jokes about it. The internet community as a whole has a problem of mob bullying. Singling out a poster for ridicule. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the individual poster in question behaved well, but for sure the BBI community piled on, ridiculed and didn't let it go. We are all bonded by a common love for our football team. I would hope that we can take the high road in these situations. To some extent, I know how the target poster felt, I have been the target poster on some threads for posts I would to this day defend if I cared to. I don't think I said anything wrong. Part of the problem with the internet is that we can't see body language, intonation and various other subtle forms of communication. It leaves our posts open to interpretation at times.

I for one will not engage in a mob pile-up on a poster. Its a tragic situation. How would some of you feel if you later found out that the poster truly had psychological issues and committed suicide shortly after a tragic thread. Nothing good comes out of those threads. Now this does not mean I won't fire back at somebody that trolls me, or call bullshit on another post. But if the mob kicks in, I'm out.

I have seen numerous posts this week calling that thread an all time classic. Its not an all time classic. Its an all time embarrassment. I would like to think we are better than that.

I hope that the vast majority of posters here are mature enough to help avoid adding fuel to the fire on these tragic threads. Anybody else willing to make the same statement as I have about not ganging up and bullying posters, even when they have said something stupid. Just let it go and walk away.
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tl;dr  
JoeMoney19 : 5/3/2019 7:37 pm : link
.
An internet message board  
UConn4523 : 5/3/2019 7:38 pm : link
is something anyone can walk away from. There’s no identifiable information on BBI (unless you choose to) so everyone is virtually anonymous. It’s really on each poster to govern what they can handle and what they can’t. I didn’t take part in the thread but I read through it a bit, he could have ended it on a good note so many times and chose not to.

I hope he doesn’t have problems, and if he does I hope he works them out. But he didn’t do himself any favors.
Tragic?  
pjcas18 : 5/3/2019 7:38 pm : link
I think that's a little dramatic.

A tragedy is a little kid dying of cancer or a natural disaster wiping out a community.

Someone getting embarrassed on the internet might be wrong and probably bullying but it's not a tragedy.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/3/2019 7:41 pm : link
It's a message board.

If you think that was "tragic," you need to get out in the real world a little more.

There are far more tragic things going on than a football fan forum pile on against some fake insider who was slinging insults and demanding apologies from people who didn't owe him one whilst simultaneously cursing out the site owner.

I personally did try to take the high road several times - I even apologized to him when I had nothing to apologize for. I needled him on the your/you're thing - big fucking deal.

If you're going to stick a flag on this hill and die on it, I hope you're ready to spend the rest of your life fighting for this cause - because you'll find similar activity on.... pretty much any message board in existence.

I get the sentiment and don't even totally disagree with it completely, but - I feel this is a bit dramatic.

Let's save the word tragic for things that actually are.
Good point  
idiotsavant : 5/3/2019 7:44 pm : link
There are people here that have dedicated hours per week and day ....for..... 20 .....years ..to checking in to see if there is anyone handy to digitally slap down and bully....

It's mind boggling, especially when it's a group pile on.

There are threads that obviously seek controversy, one need not click, there are crazy ideas (my 5-0-6 rants)...the bullying doesn't come from a place of dignity.

RE: An internet message board  
.McL. : 5/3/2019 7:44 pm : link
In comment 14431148 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
is something anyone can walk away from. There’s no identifiable information on BBI (unless you choose to) so everyone is virtually anonymous. It’s really on each poster to govern what they can handle and what they can’t. I didn’t take part in the thread but I read through it a bit, he could have ended it on a good note so many times and chose not to.

I hope he doesn’t have problems, and if he does I hope he works them out. But he didn’t do himself any favors.

This post misses the point. I am not excusing the target poster. But I am not excusing everybody who egged it on, and piled on either.

We are responsible to ourselves. But we are also responsible to our community. This board is our community. What kind of community do we want to have?

One that regularly gangs up on a posters for perhaps not saying the wisest things. Even when sometimes those thing are misinterpreted.

Or do we want to have a community with a little more maturity.

Guys like bw, and Terps revel in engaging as contrarians, that's a different dynamic. I'm not referring to those threads.
Lets not get hung up on the word tragic  
.McL. : 5/3/2019 7:48 pm : link
They are meltdown threads, you all know I am talking about.

There is no benefit to fueling the meltdown. Call it what you want, substitute any word that works for you.
And actually not all boards have this  
idiotsavant : 5/3/2019 7:48 pm : link
Tendency. There is civility out there, and decency.
I understand your point  
UConn4523 : 5/3/2019 7:49 pm : link
but he could have walked away at any time, and actually done so on a high now if he chose to. Others weren’t exhibiting great behavior but it wasn’t some heinous act.
mob mentality  
pjcas18 : 5/3/2019 7:51 pm : link
sucks, but when you use the word tragic to describe it that is what people will focus on.
What did I miss?  
Mike in St. Louis : 5/3/2019 7:52 pm : link
I imagine the thread has been deleted but what is this all about?
It you don't think cyberbullying is tragic  
.McL. : 5/3/2019 7:52 pm : link
You should read up on it...
Here is one to start.

https://theorganicagency.com/blog/life-death-consequences-cyber-bullying/

.  
arcarsenal : 5/3/2019 7:53 pm : link
This is an exercise in futility.

What do you honestly think is going to get accomplished here?

Whenever someone acts the way that poster did on a message board, they're opening themselves up to exactly what happened. He had the option to step away from it at any point. No one forced him to keep posting, no one made him do anything - he acted on his own accord.

Maybe there was something going on there, maybe there wasn't. I have no idea. None of us do. Maybe the guy was just on a bender and was hammered. Who the heck knows. He's been around here for years. He imploded and made an ass of himself, now he's gone.

I don't think this soapbox thread is going to fundamentally change anything about BBI going forward. But, that's just like... my opinion, man.
RE: Lets not get hung up on the word tragic  
JoeMoney19 : 5/3/2019 7:53 pm : link
In comment 14431161 .McL. said:
Quote:
They are meltdown threads, you all know I am talking about.

There is no benefit to fueling the meltdown. Call it what you want, substitute any word that works for you.

You used the word five separate times in your OP.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/3/2019 7:54 pm : link
What is this, an after school special?
Thanks McL  
Bill2 : 5/3/2019 8:01 pm : link
I have no idea and this is the lowest form of speculation ( meaning an average post) but there is one group of people who provoke their own beatings and push and push in defiance of a psychological pounding for hours.

People who were badly abused as kids.

Lets say the chances that he was one of those people unable to self correct deep hard wiring is 1%.

What emotional payoff do I get from ridiculing ( and I do get off stomping on stupid at times...we all do) versus the risk of shortening his life or chances? Im far from holier than thou when it comes to the temptation to cut a poster suffering from stupid or the lack of self awareness. I just keep trying to remember to do better when I see train wrecks and loneliness. All we can do
RE: Thanks McL  
.McL. : 5/3/2019 8:03 pm : link
In comment 14431181 Bill2 said:
Quote:
I have no idea and this is the lowest form of speculation ( meaning an average post) but there is one group of people who provoke their own beatings and push and push in defiance of a psychological pounding for hours.

People who were badly abused as kids.

Lets say the chances that he was one of those people unable to self correct deep hard wiring is 1%.

What emotional payoff do I get from ridiculing ( and I do get off stomping on stupid at times...we all do) versus the risk of shortening his life or chances? Im far from holier than thou when it comes to the temptation to cut a poster suffering from stupid or the lack of self awareness. I just keep trying to remember to do better when I see train wrecks and loneliness. All we can do


Thanks Bill... I agree.
You said  
Big Al : 5/3/2019 8:04 pm : link
“The internet community as a whole has a problem of mob bullying. Singling out a poster for ridicule. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the individual poster in question behaved well, but for sure the BBI community piled on, ridiculed and didn't let it go.”

I just find the use of the word bullying in this incident incorrect. Usually the bully picks on an innocent vulnerable person who has not invited the incident. I think calling him not “well behaved” is a bit of an understatement. It was people reacting to what I would call a crazed response to some debate and criticism. I think that also got backwards in this case on “who didn’t let it go”.He could have simply left at any time and the thread would have died.

I think we just saw an example of the simple human characteristic of slowing down to see a trainwreck which long precedes the internet.
btw  
Bill2 : 5/3/2019 8:05 pm : link
I did not read the thread remembering anyone else other then jtgiants endless cycling like a guy who ran into the town square asking for time in the stocks and would not leave even after the sheriff undid the locks and pulled the yoke off
Certainly not tragic  
RomanWH : 5/3/2019 8:08 pm : link
He made claims and when questioned, his reaction was way over the top. He took the skepticism as personal attacks and hurled insults and such that at best showed a complete lack of maturity and self-awareness. Not only did he violate the site's TOS, but he also lost any shred of credibility he had.

And if the original thread was still up, people could plainly read that he had been given a lot of leeway before finally having had enough. Plenty tried to calmly advise him to step away and cool off. Perhaps not get so personally invested in whatever info he was trying to pass on. At the end of the day, he brought that upon himself.
I was typing  
Big Al : 5/3/2019 8:09 pm : link
before Bill posted but I tend to agree with what he said (including the use both of us on the term trainwreck) although I guess I am ignorant of the effect of childhood experience on adult behavior.
McL  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/3/2019 8:10 pm : link
Since I was intimately involved in that thread, I know I'm going to sound biased here, but I believe MOST people in that thread demonstrated exceptional patience for the first few hours of prolonged abuse from the poster in question.

Posters repeatedly offered him advice. They also recommended he delete the thread. At one point, it was so over-the-top that it appeared he was begging to be banned in order to become a martyr. (I wasn't going to give him that honor)

The mob didn't kick in until the 7 or 8 hour mark of a 12-hour meltdown. Should we have pulled the plug on that thread sooner? Probably yes.

But that performance was beyond the pale. It was not an indictment of BBI posters. If anything, I felt that many people tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and help him. He refused.
And McL  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/3/2019 8:13 pm : link
With all due respect, the guy in the end proved to be a fraud. He got outed and didn't like it. But he took advantage of this community by pretending to be something he wasn't.

He's not the victim.
Have to agree with Eric  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 5/3/2019 8:16 pm : link
You can be a victim or you can make yourself a victim. In this case, the guy did everything possible to be the latter. It was really hard to fathom behavior.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/3/2019 8:25 pm : link
This entire meltdown was literally fueled by this guy being outed and losing his shit over it because he couldn't handle it.

He told me personally to "drop dead" more than once.

He routinely criticized Eric as a person, a business owner, and everything in between. He called people names, he cursed at people, and he basically just handled himself terribly.

When it came up that he had a gambling issue earlier, I stayed away from that - I told him specifically that I thought it would be in poor taste to mock him for that and that I didn't agree with anyone who had. I thought that was too below the belt.

But - he continually insisted that people WERE mocking him for it when they were not. Specifically Eric. Eric did not mock him or mention that a single time; yet he continued to demand an apology for it - all whilst continuing to call him Tiny Tim, a douchebag, and a "bad guy" with bad business acumen.

It really could have been a lot worse than it was. I think most of the criticisms he was getting were pretty measured and were attacking his questionable timeline in his OP or his absolute refusal to note the difference between your/you're.

Maybe a poster here or there took it too far - but it really wasn't that bad given the amount of vitriol he was sending back the other way.

He said far worse things to me than I said to him - I never even asked for an apology or cared to receive one.

It's a message board.
.....  
Micko : 5/3/2019 8:27 pm : link
I don’t know. Seemed like a community getting together to call out a fraud. Def one of the weirder things I’ve seen here. Granted, not sure it was a MiS or GG level meltdown but def similar.
.  
threeofakind33 : 5/3/2019 8:32 pm : link
I think the OP is not defending all of the poster-in-questions actions. Don’t get hung up on that. That poster was clearly in the wrong and banning was appropriate.

He’s talking about the continual abuse once it became apparent the individual might be a bit distressed.

I followed the thread. I laughed early on. The dog piling afterwards was the issue the OP raises. It became cringeworthy when it became clear there might be some warning signs showing in the poster-in-question. I don’t necessarily agree with the word tragic and it’s exceptionally hard to see that line in the moment, but I do agree with the spirit of his message.

Worth a moment of reflection at the very least and kudos for the thread.
This site has some really fucking weird people  
Route 9 : 5/3/2019 8:32 pm : link
...
I know  
crick n NC : 5/3/2019 8:33 pm : link
That I referred to poster Djm as "dim" instead of his proper bbi tag. For that I am sorry.
.  
Bill2 : 5/3/2019 8:35 pm : link
This is all in how you read into crap when you see it. Some threads I did not see into it. Some threads I provoked or pulled the weakness out. Some I knew where it was going and waited. I did not recognize my part until later on

But most of the time I just didn't think about the other guy and how he could take it or I overreacted or misread. Sometimes badly

Its not a medium that enhances communication.

This time I saw a guy who at first provoked, got stupid and then unraveled. I have no idea why. But I saw a guy whose behavior, self interest and hysteria kept rising over two days.

I was not in it and he was not calling on me so as Pete just put it so well...its was a hard thread to fathom and a hard guy to fathom.

For me, when I can be aware in time, I am going to try to ease off when I don't get it rather than double down when the target gets easier and larger. I will fail often for I seem to see stupid in large print but that is what I am going to try. No judgement on how others read it or will read into the other end of an exchange

Remember the old game "Battleship"? when you have a barrier and guess what holes in a pegboard the other guy has the ships in spaces that are important to him and a lot of spaces he does not care about? That's the internet. I never have any idea where the other guy has stuff that's important to him.
Stupidity,  
Big Al : 5/3/2019 8:37 pm : link
Ignorance and/or insanity are always going to get you roasted on this site. As I have said here for years, that is one of the charms of this place.
Big Al  
Bill2 : 5/3/2019 8:40 pm : link
Shortly after I joined I also agreed, applauded and participated in efforts to drive out the stupid.

Look what its gotten us?
The poster in question  
SJGiant : 5/3/2019 8:42 pm : link
Was self destructing as time passes on. Many of us tried to tell the poster to take time off and not get upset with all the criticism that was posted. People have opinions. If he wanted to give us inside information he could do that without giving all his opinions and constantly fight with everyone. Maybe in the future, there could be a timeout capability instead of a permanent ban until the person in question repeatedly demonstrates unacceptable behavior. It’s a shame that the poster couldn’t help himself.
arcarsenal  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/3/2019 8:42 pm : link
Oh, I eventually mocked him, especially for his grammar. But I had had it with him by that point. I also asked for a few old Chris in Philly memes to be reincarnated.

Again, could I have taken even higher road? Probably. But the guy was a douchebag.
so what..  
FranchiseQB : 5/3/2019 8:51 pm : link
he was a fraud. I think it was fairly obvious for a while now. Maybe he knew someone that knew someone but his info was sort of basic and in the end never amounted to anything.

I don't know people took him and it so seriously. To me he was good for a laugh. If BBI didn't let him provoke them it would have been nothing. He became a troll in the end, and BBI fed the troll.

Better to ignore him or anyone who has a melt down like that.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/3/2019 8:54 pm : link
Eric.. I mean for the gambling thing. He kept saying you were specifically mocking him for that or blaming you for letting others do it, but it was barely going on at all.

FMiC alluded to it innocently and then let it go as soon as he realized it. Basically everyone else was leaving it alone. I think maybe one or two people passed by and threw a little gas on that fire, but that was really it.

He was a douchebag. The guy should be somewhat responsible for the diarrhea he posted here for 15 hours in a row rather than painted as some martyr or tragic figure here. Maybe something was wrong with him, maybe something wasn't - but the majority of the criticism was regarding the bad info he had passed along or his shitty grammar.

That's hardly the type of "bullying" that drives people to suicide.

I just think this thread is way too dramatic. I get the overall sentiment. And I think I even acted somewhat appropriately all things considered - I really wasn't that aggressive or combative. I was super measured and relaxed in most of my responses. I wasn't even vulgar towards him.

I told him to sleep on it and maybe reevaluate it all the next day and see if he's cooled down, etc.

Even gidie addressed him in a totally non-combative way initially and jt went right after him and started insulting him, too.

He put all this shit on himself. Absolutely not the other way around.
.....  
Micko : 5/3/2019 8:57 pm : link
the corner forum has always been a fascinating social experiment.
.  
Danny Kanell : 5/3/2019 8:58 pm : link
To try to spin what went on on that thread into this OP is incredibly funny.
In all seriousness  
crick n NC : 5/3/2019 8:58 pm : link
I think mcl and Bill2 are saying we as posters could have exercised better self control and just left the thread or choose to not participate. I think that is all they are trying to communicate.
RE: In all seriousness  
Danny Kanell : 5/3/2019 9:01 pm : link
In comment 14431248 crick n NC said:
Quote:
I think mcl and Bill2 are saying we as posters could have exercised better self control and just left the thread or choose to not participate. I think that is all they are trying to communicate.


The vast majority of posters were trying to exercise self control.
RE: RE: In all seriousness  
crick n NC : 5/3/2019 9:04 pm : link
In comment 14431251 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
In comment 14431248 crick n NC said:


Quote:


I think mcl and Bill2 are saying we as posters could have exercised better self control and just left the thread or choose to not participate. I think that is all they are trying to communicate.



The vast majority of posters were trying to exercise self control.


Perhaps, but even a better way would be to just let it die.

I have my sarcastic comments in the thread as well.
RE: McL  
.McL. : 5/3/2019 9:05 pm : link
In comment 14431190 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Since I was intimately involved in that thread, I know I'm going to sound biased here, but I believe MOST people in that thread demonstrated exceptional patience for the first few hours of prolonged abuse from the poster in question.

Posters repeatedly offered him advice. They also recommended he delete the thread. At one point, it was so over-the-top that it appeared he was begging to be banned in order to become a martyr. (I wasn't going to give him that honor)

The mob didn't kick in until the 7 or 8 hour mark of a 12-hour meltdown. Should we have pulled the plug on that thread sooner? Probably yes.

But that performance was beyond the pale. It was not an indictment of BBI posters. If anything, I felt that many people tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and help him. He refused.

I'm not disagreeing with you with regards to the individual poster. I don't know what happened with him. Never seen him act like that before. Maybe he lost his job, maybe he was on a bender and won't remember a thing, maybe he lost a lot of money, or a lost a family member and it sent him into a tailspin. I'm not sure it matters, something was wrong.

But as a community we fed that 12 hour meltdown, unnecessarily. I don't think anybody benefited from it. Quoting you: "He was outed as a fraud".
Nothing to see here, move along.

And I don't want to single out any single poster on that thread. These threads have happened enough that most of us are guilty of it at one time or another. I can admit in the early days of BBI (before we had logins), I remember participating in one, don't remember who it was now... But I decided afterwards it was wrong.

Eric, I understand your particular anger, he attacked you the most. Had it been just between the 2 of you, that's a different dynamic. It gets problematic when everybody piles on. Group dynamics is different than 1v1. From a psychological standpoint, the group thing makes it harder for certain people to back down. It becomes a downward spiral.

Even now on this thread, I am feeling reluctant to continue posting. However, since you are the site owner and the primary target of the melting down individual, I felt that you deserved the respect of this response.

Everybody is free to choose their own path. As a community, I thought it would be good for a bit of self reflection. I will leave the thread up, but I have said my piece. I'm out.
RE: Big Al  
Big Al : 5/3/2019 9:07 pm : link
In comment 14431220 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Shortly after I joined I also agreed, applauded and participated in efforts to drive out the stupid.

Look what its gotten us?
i realize that in the end it is just to dream the impossible dream and to fight the unbeatable foe. But it brings short term satisfaction.
This thread is epic  
SteelGiant : 5/3/2019 9:12 pm : link
I cant decide if I am happy that I missed it because it sounds like something horrible happened. But I am also sad I missed it because from my perspective this thread is like watching a VHS taped movie and it getting chewed up before you know what happens next.

An Anti-Bullying reminder probably isn't a bad idea for a message board and it also sounds like someone played with fire. A nice refresher course on two lessons everyone should learn at a younger age.
Cheers!
Respectfully I disagree  
RomanWH : 5/3/2019 9:12 pm : link
To say nothing and "let it die"... Allowing that behavior doesn't make this community stronger. It just breeds more nonsense. Wild misleading claims... Personal attacks... Calls for a "time and a place" to fight others...

Some people might be fine ignoring a crying child that's acting out. Let him tire himself out? Some people won't abide by that. I'm on their side
RE: RE: Big Al  
SteelGiant : 5/3/2019 9:16 pm : link
In comment 14431264 Big Al said:
Quote:
In comment 14431220 Bill2 said:


Quote:


Shortly after I joined I also agreed, applauded and participated in efforts to drive out the stupid.

Look what its gotten us?

i realize that in the end it is just to dream the impossible dream and to fight the unbeatable foe. But it brings short term satisfaction.


To right the unrightable wrong
This thread seems  
pjcas18 : 5/3/2019 9:19 pm : link
preachy and judgmental, maybe delete it.
McL  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/3/2019 9:19 pm : link
I don't disagree with you. It's worthy of discussion and thought.

His insults actually didn't bother me (other than the one where he accused me of lying... that pissed me off). As I said in that thread, I haven't laughed so much due to one thread since Bavaro's old garage party thread.

The whole thing seemed surreal. As I said the next day, when I woke up, I thought it was some weird dream.
RE: Respectfully I disagree  
crick n NC : 5/3/2019 9:22 pm : link
In comment 14431273 RomanWH said:
Quote:
To say nothing and "let it die"... Allowing that behavior doesn't make this community stronger. It just breeds more nonsense. Wild misleading claims... Personal attacks... Calls for a "time and a place" to fight others...

Some people might be fine ignoring a crying child that's acting out. Let him tire himself out? Some people won't abide by that. I'm on their side


Continued behavior that he was exhibiting would get him banned. He wouldn't be roaming the MB insulting everyone when he wanted.
Eric  
Bill2 : 5/3/2019 9:23 pm : link
I certainly could see that take. To me you were the target so what ever you responded was certainly not poking a sick mess...more like a snarling pitbull from your vantage point
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