No that a few days have passed and the dust has settled on this week's tragic thread (you all know the one to which I am referring), I wanted say a few things to the BBI Community.
Threads like the one that happened this week are not a laughing matter. I see folks making jokes about it. The internet community as a whole has a problem of mob bullying. Singling out a poster for ridicule. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the individual poster in question behaved well, but for sure the BBI community piled on, ridiculed and didn't let it go. We are all bonded by a common love for our football team. I would hope that we can take the high road in these situations. To some extent, I know how the target poster felt, I have been the target poster on some threads for posts I would to this day defend if I cared to. I don't think I said anything wrong. Part of the problem with the internet is that we can't see body language, intonation and various other subtle forms of communication. It leaves our posts open to interpretation at times.
I for one will not engage in a mob pile-up on a poster. Its a tragic situation. How would some of you feel if you later found out that the poster truly had psychological issues and committed suicide shortly after a tragic thread. Nothing good comes out of those threads. Now this does not mean I won't fire back at somebody that trolls me, or call bullshit on another post. But if the mob kicks in, I'm out.
I have seen numerous posts this week calling that thread an all time classic. Its not an all time classic. Its an all time embarrassment. I would like to think we are better than that.
I hope that the vast majority of posters here are mature enough to help avoid adding fuel to the fire on these tragic threads. Anybody else willing to make the same statement as I have about not ganging up and bullying posters, even when they have said something stupid. Just let it go and walk away.
So keeping the idea of "community" in mind, I'd be willing to bet a lot of people here feel (and likely felt) that same way. For me, that goes especially in this case considering I was not in agreement with how the OP was handling the whole thing.
That's not to say things couldn't have been handled differently, and it doesn't mean Eric should be automatically exempt from criticism... But if you're going to call out the boss, then be prepared to hear from the rest of the employees (please give me a break on this awful analogy).
Nice Money shot.
It wasn't an isolated incident, either. The mob mentality is pretty brutal around here quite often.
It's mind boggling, especially when it's a group pile on.
There are threads that obviously seek controversy, one need not click, there are crazy ideas (my 5-0-6 rants)...the bullying doesn't come from a place of dignity.
You nailed it and some people need to see that when they do this it doesn't shine a positive light on themselves.
His insults actually didn't bother me (other than the one where he accused me of lying... that pissed me off). As I said in that thread, I haven't laughed so much due to one thread since Bavaro's old garage party thread.
The whole thing seemed surreal. As I said the next day, when I woke up, I thought it was some weird dream.
I missed the whole damn thread, and that kind of behavior is inexcusable.
And people have valid points about what really constitutes a tragedy, but the bigger point here is that you can let a guy just stew in his own stupid juices without further stirring the pot. I'll defend myself 100% if someone comes at me, the gloves will come off. But piling on when there's no reason to even get involved is really unnecessary even if it can be justified, and most of the time does this place a disservice.
I agree that many people pile on when they see an opening.
I agree with your opening post and share your sentiments.
Tragedy - ( New Window )
I originally began by attempting rational discussion using facts, logic, appeals to ethics, truth, etc. Met by complete dismissal of easily checked facts, derision, name calling, threats, I soon devolved into similar behavior rather than just recognizing the futility of further engagement. I began to ridicule them with no hope of persuasion, but somehow took satisfaction in at least exposing their B.S.
When I later re-read some of my posts, I didn't recognize myself and wasn't particularly fond of that person. To me, that thread in question appears as a microcosm of our times, human nature, and the nature of the faceless internet.
Should we just have abandoned the thread and left it to an irrational i
unbalanced individual sprewing slanderous statements with no response? Probably the noble wise thing to do but not the typical human response to attacks. Should BBI thread simply be left to the
unbalanced individuals insulting the site owner and others?
I think that you are making a case for simply banning posters which would be an easy solution. Personally I am against banning except for extreme circumstance and would rather challenge a speaker than silence them. I am also not big on deleting threads and in this case I understand why it was not done by the moderators.
You probably have a point about starting all these follow up threads and we should move on but there is a natural human reaction to discuss things of interest after they have been concluded.
There was a lot of restraint showed to a poster that had a lot of stamina to keep pushing forward that he deserved an apology - to the point that he hurled insult after insult to Eric, arc and others.
Like you said - many pleaded with him to step back and reconsider what was going on. But one can't underestimate the sheer effort to keep that thread alive that day. A poster was literally engaged for 12+ hours on that thread.
And even at the end - even though the act had worn thin, most posters still kept the comments above board. Eris showed the most humor and restraint I've seen from him. And he had some classic one-liners - that weren't even attacks on the guy who started the thread.
There could have been a lot of piling on
Should we just have abandoned the thread and left it to an irrational i
unbalanced individual sprewing slanderous statements with no response? Probably the noble wise thing to do but not the typical human response to attacks. Should BBI thread simply be left to the
unbalanced individuals insulting the site owner and others?
I think that you are making a case for simply banning posters which would be an easy solution. Personally I am against banning except for extreme circumstance and would rather challenge a speaker than silence them. I am also not big on deleting threads and in this case I understand why it was not done by the moderators.
You probably have a point about starting all these follow up threads and we should move on but there is a natural human reaction to discuss things of interest after they have been concluded.
Well, as you said, I didn't see the thread, so I really can't judge it. My comment was more about understanding how its possible for decent people to act out of character in this venue as I am guilty of it myself. I also have always been against banning posters … except maybe for threats of violence. Hated seeing MiS go and several others. I have no good opinions on how to make everyone play nice, and perhaps that shouldn't be the goal. But the variety of personas, make it interesting and what experienced here isn't unique to this site. In fact, probably our shared interest keeps it from going off the rails as much as other social media
Still, you had guys enabling him and chastising those who were resisting him as "the reason asshats don't post here anymore." I guess this final thread put an end to that.
2) He was the aggressor. He was the one name calling and bullying the owner of the site.
3) He continued to produce the very same behavior that led to his ridicule. For days!
That is the least sorry I've ever felt for a poster ever. This wasn't some guy coming here and then being chastised for his looks, intelligence, or a disability... aka things out of his control. He was a willing and aggressive participant--the catalyst--in a thread he started with fake information.
Tolerance implies patience and gentleness with people who are less than perfect, even when they ask for attention.
It's still bullying , even when they "deserve it".
Because we all "deserve it"
Schools struggle with bullying right now because the card is constantly played. We just had a couple situations where bullying didn't apply, yet was alleged. One was when a student didn't turn in their homework and the teacher lectured the entire class about how when you have a week to do an assignment and don't finish it is procrastination and unacceptable. The other was a lacrosse player was benched in the middle of the game for insubordination and his parents filed a complaint because other players were bullying him.
Turns out several players yelled at him to get his head out of his ass.
There is something to the idea that people who seek an odd corner Luke thus to find a voice and validation might already be damaged, and here comes fatty with his bully cudgel.
Shameless bastard.
You can crusade for the little guy if you wish, but not validating a shitty opinion isn't bullying.
There is something to the idea that people who seek an odd corner Luke thus to find a voice and validation might already be damaged, and here comes fatty with his bully cudgel.
Shameless bastard.
So, what does this critical and assumptive post qualify as?
Let me guess; you're just a "voice of reason" sharing your unbiased observations (whilst name-calling and flexing your armchair psychology muscle, of course...) ?
But yes, I'm sure he's just some ruthless poster constantly knocking down 12 year olds testing out pet theories. Those poor kids.
Tolerance implies patience and gentleness with people who are less than perfect, even when they ask for attention.
It's still bullying , even when they "deserve it".
Because we all "deserve it"
But we only have to be tolerant to those that share are viewpoint right? Cause F--k everyone else.
Bingo. Anything that anyone can perceive as critical or oppositional in nature now gets tagged as "bullying".
I try to stay away from people whose behavior is consistently inconsistent with their own self interests. Especially if they are blind to reason or self interest for awhile.
Something else is going on and im not smart enough to figure it out.
So my obligation is only to do no further harm blundering around when I don't know wtf they want or need.
Who has brain cells or time to devote to more chaos? Learning nothing and wasting time and not earning and not producing and not healing is net energy lost to stupid
In general, Martin Buber had a note worth remembering when I can remember it in time: Everybody else's cry of anger is a some kind of cry of pain.
Another kid responded - "let him play with the six year olds then, if he wants to play with the big kids he needs to learn the big kids rules".
I felt compassion for the little kid. After all, he was little and what did it matter if we let him kick a "home run".
But I learned that day that sometimes that just ruins the game for all the other kids. Every time that six year old wanted to come up the game was interrupted. Soon his other little friends also wanted to play. Before long it was late and we couldn't play or finish the game.
BBI is a place treasured because of the great minds that contribute. It's best when we have wiser minds doing most of the posting and the rest of us reading. Compassion has its place, but so does keeping the site intelligent enough to be of interest to everyone else.
(And a reminder to myself that I should post a lot less than I do and read a lot more!)
(And a reminder to myself that I should post a lot less than I do and read a lot more!)
You and me both. Sometimes when my schedule frees up I start posting a bunch. Sooner or later brighter minds speak up and tell me why I'm wrong about something, which is a great reminder to me that my contributions are greatly outweighed by those of quality posters here.
I think we can do both things - but sometimes a poster comes along and insists on posting the same stuff over and over again. It gets old, and worse yet, sometimes it starts getting repeated as fact. Brighter minds try to intervene and correct the thinking but sooner or later, a little harshness in criticism is the best remedy.
as for the claims of 'I repeatedly told him to calm down, but he only got angrier and angrier', well, after the first time or two and seeing the result, maybe one would figure out that it wasn't a very good approach since it was so counter productive. It becomes a case of taunting, no matter how well intentioned, and I'm of the opinion that much, if not most, of it was not well intentioned.
He's not the victim.
True.... plus HE was the one who was throwing around insults.
Hi Steve, I'm not sure if your reply was meant for my post above about deciding to be silent. For any particular thread heading down that same path, choosing the to disengage wouldn't be shunning. Now, if that poster is meant with the same silence on other posts that have nothing to do with their past thread then, yes I see your point.
Personally, I feel it's right to be respectful and polite as much as possible, even if the other chooses to use insults. I am not a big fan of "taking the gloves off" so to speak. I believe there are better ways to handle a hostile situation in regards to a message board discussion. In the past when I have chose to engage with an individual in an insulting manner it was typically because I was allowing my self pride to take control of my actions. My thoughts were a lot of times insulting, but me choosing to allow the thoughts to come out as visual words were fueled by my pride not wanting them to "best" me.
Now this is my personality, and the way I prefer to handle things. What I have said above isn't meant to be a solution for others. I also don't handle every situation perfectly in regards to my standards or beliefs.
I guess "at the end of the day" (Hi Antrel) I have no idea where people are in life, or what is going on in their life or what has happened to them. I also don't have the ability to change anyone's view on life, and I shouldn't be able to. I have only learned a very tiny amount in life, that certainly disqualifies me as a life expert. One thing I have learned is that people tend to look for acceptance, compassion, and understanding. But, to the point, if I attempt to help the person see why others are coming at them in a genuine way and they choose to ignore then to me the best way to handle the situation is to disengage, at least for that subject, not for future unrelated subjects.