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NGT: Will Grier

Leg of Theismann : 5/8/2019 10:05 pm
The past couple of weeks I've been watching a lot of Daniel Jones tape... and no I don't just mean highlights I mean several of his full games from various points in his 3 years of starting...

So, randomly I stumbled across some of Will Grier's games and highlights and I'll admit I was captivated and couldn't help but watch more. To be honest this guy looks to me like a poor man's Baker Mayfield, and I mean that in a very good way. In fact the reason I'm starting this thread is to ask what exactly is it that makes us so sure Mayfield is a far superior player? I remember a lot of people didn't think Mayfield would pan out in the NFL based on his measurables and things like that, but he certainly seems to be an immediate success in this league...

So, back to Will Grier... it seems to me if he had been in Oklahoma's potent offense I see no reason why he couldn't have put up similar numbers as Mayfield. Also interesting to note is I have heard both players knocked for their lack of arm strength, yet both players threw 59/60 mph at their respective combines (clocked) and the only player in the last 10 years to be clocked at & gt; 60 mph at the combine was Josh Allen in 2018 at 62 mph(yes, the last TEN years). I certainly see no problem with Mayfield's arm strength in the pros and if anything I think he can really whip it around. Grier just appears to have a lot of similarities in the way he moves, throws, goes through progressions, processes what he sees, and plays in general. I'm just a bit surprised I didn't see more comparisons between Grier and Mayfield leading up to the draft.

Can someone with a little more expertise tell me why Grier is a projected Back-Up and why he's not going to be anywhere close to as good as Mayfield? I'd really like to know just to put my mind at ease that it was worth it to take Jones at #6 when we could have had Grier at #95, because right now from everything I've seen I get a better feeling about Grier than I do Jones (and I don't like having that feeling). Similar to Mayfield he just strikes me as a guy who can flat-out play, has a lot of natural talent, and it seems the only thing separating them is the fact Mayfield played in a much better offense with a better coach and better talent around him. Convince me otherwise, I beg of you.

Also, one last side note: I know Grier had some off-the-field issues and had a bit of a bad reputation for not being serious enough about football, which is always the type of stuff that causes the Giants' brass to avoid at all costs, but I've heard that in recent years and especially since getting married and having a baby in 2016 he's really matured and developed a better work ethic. I'm not saying I'm going to root against him (if anything I wish him the best) but at the same time I have to say it would be a tough pill to swallow to see him turn out to be better than Jones (I know, grow some balls, I'm just sayin' though). Anything that anyone with a little more expertise can tell me to put my mind at ease in that regard would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

That is supposed to say  
Leg of Theismann : 5/8/2019 10:06 pm : link
"faster than" 60 mph. Apparently it didn't like my "greater than" sign I tried to use.
Fyi, Daniel Jones sophmore year in HS  
George from PA : 5/8/2019 10:11 pm : link
Beat Will Grier team in HS. Will was a senior and 2+ years older
I like Grier as well  
Jim Bur(n)t : 5/8/2019 10:14 pm : link
Moxie
Good question...  
bw in dc : 5/8/2019 10:25 pm : link
I don't like the MPH stat, btw, because it's only a few throws in a controlled environment. Like running the forty without pads.

Being able to zip the ball in a game environment with a pass rush, a pocket, and secondary is the real measure.

But back to the ask. Mayfield, who have never been a fan of, is much better than Grier at throwing on the run when you can't get to your mechanics. He can generate pace and precision. It's pretty impressive actually. Grier is crafty too at skipping away from pressure, but his arm talent isn't there - yet.

Furthermore, that offense Holgerson put together for Grier at WVU was tremendous. Holgerson had a great offensive mind. So Grier was in an environment that was very QB friendly.

(BTW, Holgerson will do great things at the University of Houston with his offense...)

I enjoyed watching Grier play at WVU.  
ZogZerg : 5/8/2019 10:37 pm : link
He does seem to have that "it" factor.
Not sure why he lasted until the 3rd round. For some reason the QB needy teams passed on him the first 2 rounds.
would like Davisian's input  
gtt350 : 5/8/2019 10:47 pm : link
.
RE: Fyi, Daniel Jones sophmore year in HS  
BlueLou'sBack : 5/8/2019 10:50 pm : link
In comment 14437188 George from PA said:
Quote:
Beat Will Grier team in HS. Will was a senior and 2+ years older


I nominate this for post of the year! Sneaky ass post of the year, at that.
RE: Good question...  
BSIMatt : 5/8/2019 10:59 pm : link
In comment 14437197 bw in dc said:
Quote:
I don't like the MPH stat, btw, because it's only a few throws in a controlled environment. Like running the forty without pads.

Being able to zip the ball in a game environment with a pass rush, a pocket, and secondary is the real measure.

But back to the ask. Mayfield, who have never been a fan of, is much better than Grier at throwing on the run when you can't get to your mechanics. He can generate pace and precision. It's pretty impressive actually. Grier is crafty too at skipping away from pressure, but his arm talent isn't there - yet.

Furthermore, that offense Holgerson put together for Grier at WVU was tremendous. Holgerson had a great offensive mind. So Grier was in an environment that was very QB friendly.

(BTW, Holgerson will do great things at the University of Houston with his offense...)


I don’t like the mph stat either as there isn’t a contest of who can throw the hardest, they are just looking to make completions to wrs running against air, they aren’t there trying to clock themselves on a radar gun, so I think it’ can be misleading. Some guys might take some off on sone throws for sake of accuracy etc. On top of that there are some numbers which really just don’t add up....guys ranking ahead of Mahomes for example that are generally accepted to have nowhere near the arm he has. There is an article debunking the value of combine velocity numbers that goes into more detail, I’ll try to find and post.
I thought Grier's passing drills at the combine were pretty bad.  
allstarjim : 5/8/2019 11:33 pm : link
And that doesn't mean everything. But he didn't help himself there.

I haven't really looked at his game film, though, and of course, that's way more important.
The one detail  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 5/9/2019 6:31 am : link
I remember from studying Grier awhile ago is that he struggles under pressure. There was, as well, concern about character issues/maturity. I believe he was a one-read QB, too. When he had to process through reads two and three, he struggled.
Seems he’s an example of the difference between NFL and college QBs  
BillT : 5/9/2019 6:43 am : link
When I watched him play he looked pretty darn good. But neither the draft predictions or the draft had him ranked or drafted as a guy who would be an NFL starter. I don't pretend to know or be able to tell you why but it’s pretty obvious he’s not considered a top prospect.
Will Grier = Ryan Fitzpatrick  
DavidinBMNY : 5/9/2019 7:19 am : link
They are streaky QBs. Grier can have a really awful game - a total stinker. They both can move, both are super competitive and both can be competitive QBs in the league given their team a chance to win.

Unless Grier cleans up the high turnover crash/burn games I don't feel he can lead you to a championship. I do feel he can get you to the playoffs in the right situation.

Keep in mind Grier also transferred in college and was suspended for using an illegal substance. So he is at least something off the field that needs some inquiry. I also believe he is an older prospect, so his upside is physical upside may be a bit more limited.
From the little I saw of him I liked Grier. Even commented on BBI  
Blue21 : 5/9/2019 7:19 am : link
that he reminded me somewhat of Mayfield. But as another poster mentioned reading defenses is a major part of analyzing a QB's potential NFL ability. Remember the Giants spent a good deal of time on him with visits inyterviews etc. But I'm not a scout, GM, or a coach and certainly not a QB guru. He went in a round he was pretty much projected to go in. And there were never any rumors of him going anywhere near the top. So all the teams pretty much agreed on his ability. Could he turn out great? Sure. But it's ironic that he was selected by a team that has a pretty good QB (Cam Newton) which tells me it may be awhile before he ever sees the playing field unless Newton gets hurt. And he wouldn't be the first QB drafted in the middle rounds and released the following year (see Davis Webb). Personally I never thought he was better than Jones but I figured if the Giants were going to try and wait to 17 to pick a QB, Jones would be gone and for that matter so would Haskins and Lock and they might snatch Grier in round 2 not with #37 but by trading up from their late 3rd round pick. As it turned out Lock hung around until round 2, apparently he didn't get the love everyone expected and the Giants didn't take a chance and grabbed Jone at 6 because of rumors he wouldn't last til 17. At least he's not in the NFC East. If any other QB is worrisome it should be Haskins because he's in the Giants in the NFC East and the Giants play him twice and they could have had him. I liked Haskins too but as I said I'm no QB guru. So it's no looking back. Giants got the QB they wanted and had the conviction on him to select him at 6 that so many on him said they should do if they sincerely thought he could be the next franchise QB. I like him and I like the decision. Time to move on.
nfl teams missed on him for whatever reason  
MM_in_NYC : 5/9/2019 7:53 am : link
if he gets a good chance he'll surprise people.
There’s a long list of QBs projected to be backups  
Big Blue '56 : 5/9/2019 8:09 am : link
entering the pros who became very good, even stars. I’ve observed this through many decades.

So yes, he COULD become a playa at this level.
The other thing I forgot to mention in my previous thread is  
Blue21 : 5/9/2019 8:12 am : link
maybe the Giants FO wasn't comfortable with how he would fit in NY especially with the press. The importance of that was mentioned numerous times by DG.
RE: The other thing I forgot to mention in my previous thread is  
Big Blue '56 : 5/9/2019 8:13 am : link
In comment 14437341 Blue21 said:
Quote:
maybe the Giants FO wasn't comfortable with how he would fit in NY especially with the press. The importance of that was mentioned numerous times by DG.


and poo-pooed by some on here as a non-factor, which is NONSENSE.
In honesty...  
Giant John : 5/9/2019 9:05 am : link
I did not see much of Grier. What I did note was that at times he was not always accurate. That is the biggest difference between him and some of the other QB prospects. Can that be fixed yes to a degree through better mechanics? Can he grow into a top flight QB? Yes, but time will tell us if he will.
Regarding Baker I knew when I first started watching him he was a player. A good player. I commented many times on this site that I felt he was the best prospect of the bunch. You can include this years group in that bunch. Even when the so called pundits were killing him. Well what did I know? BTW Baker has very good arm strength.
Jones has good arm strength too and I don’t care what the “experts” or anyone who comments on this site have to say about it.
Does Grier have the will to win and heart Baker has? I don’t think so but wouldn’t mind being wrong on that count.
Good thread.
Grier..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/9/2019 9:09 am : link
is a lot like a shorter version of Charlie Whitehurst.

With a certain amount of breaks, he could become a starter, but will likely have the ceiling of being a backup.
As an aside..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/9/2019 9:22 am : link
"Clipboard Jesus" has to be one of the best nicknames in sports history
I think Grier's upside is Derek Carr  
Jay on the Island : 5/9/2019 10:07 am : link
He's already 24 and I don't think he has a big enough upside which is why he was drafted in the 3rd round. Even if the Giants didn't take a QB I wouldn't have taken Grier before the 4th round.
Grier  
Tim in JTown : 5/9/2019 11:15 am : link
I liked what I saw of him at WV. But that senior bowl was some of the worst QB play I have seen.
Will Grier's Arm Strength  
Deejboy : 5/9/2019 12:36 pm : link
"Grier has good backup talent. I'm not sold on his arm. Lot of throws die on him when he can't set his feet, and the great NFL QBs have to play with a muddled pocket 75 percent of the time. Requires a level of twitch, core power, arm strength to get throws off with velocity from unstable platforms. Grier doesn't have that type of arm."

That is the difference between Mayfield and Grier along with Mayfield's superior athleticism. Also the huge difference between Jones and Grier.
For the same reason  
Vanzetti : 5/10/2019 2:15 am : link
that Troy Aikman was considered a better QB than Jeff Hostetler

Big difference between being a Sooner and a Mountaineer.
Because he’s a  
tyrik13 : 5/10/2019 9:55 am : link
Fucking bum. Straight Geno smith part 2. Noodle arm, holds the ball too long, doesn’t go through his progression at all, locks on to one receiver, played in a gimmick offense, etc
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