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Let's analyze the 5th round of this year's NFL Draft

YANKEE28 : 5/8/2019 10:46 pm
As the weeks approached prior to the draft, it was pretty clear that the "Two Devin's" -Devin White and Devin Bush were at the very top of the draft eligible linebackers. That proved true, as both were gone with the 5th and the 10th overall picks.

But what about the rest of all the linebackers? Well frankly not much happened, until all of a sudden it became the 5th round.

The Seahawks, using a pick near the top of the 5th from the Giants in the Deandre Baker trade, grabbed Ben Burr-Kirven from the University of Washington.

The Giants had the next pick, and they grabbed Ryan Connelly of Wisconsin. And then the linebacker flood gates really opened. By the end of the 5th round, TEN linebackers were selected. Just look at the list:

1. Ben Burr Kirven-Univ Washington- Seahawks
2. Ryan Connelly-Wisconsin-Giants
3. Vosean Joseph-Univ Florida-Bills
4. Dre Greenlaw-Arkansas-49ers
5. Andrew Van Ginkel-Wisconsin-Dolphins
6. Lyndell Wilson-Alabama-Browns
7. Blake Cashman-Univ Minnesota-Jets
8. Cameron Smith-USC-Vikings
9. E. J. Speed- Tarleton State-Colts
10. Cole Holcomb-North Carolina-Redskins

Its important to note that with the first 32 regular picks in the 6th round, only 2 linebackers were taken in that following round. Clearly most teams looking for a linebacker felt the 5th was the time to pull the trigger and that next tier of linebacker talent quickly disappeared off the draft board.

Also worth mentioning that the Giants had two picks in the 5th and that they grabbed Connelly and held their breath that they could get WR Darius Slayton later in that same round.

The Giants were wise to fill other needs and to wait until the 5th round to get the linebacker they wanted. The Giants passed on a lot of well known linebackers that were still available in the 5th and discussed much more frequently on draft "experts" websites and on threads on BBI.

Clearly the Giants wanted Ryan Connelly.

Not much has been said about the guy taken #143 in this year's draft. But I am optimistic that the Giants did a lot of homework and grabbed the inside linebacker they knew they wanted well before the draft even started.
Good point ...  
GothamGiants : 5/8/2019 10:48 pm : link
I actually love the Connelly pick, aside from Love my favorite day 3 selection and I think both will be starting at some point this year
I love how he shoots the gap, lightning quick  
George from PA : 5/8/2019 10:53 pm : link
If he can unseat Goodsen, that would be great.
RE: I love how he shoots the gap, lightning quick  
SGMen : 5/8/2019 11:01 pm : link
In comment 14437220 George from PA said:
Quote:
If he can unseat Goodsen, that would be great.
So agree. He will be a demon against the run and if he can just be "serviceable" in coverage he does in fact have a shot at unseating Goodson.
We are in a "run first" division so guys that can shoot gaps with that kind of quickness will be key.
In some ways  
YANKEE28 : 5/8/2019 11:03 pm : link
you can compare the selection of Ryan Connelly to the selection of Daniel Jones and Deandre Baker.

You have to let the draft fall to you and take the top player on your board, but based on Jones going 6th overall, Baker requiring a 3 for 1 trade, and Connelly being selected at a time there were 7-8 other well known linebackers still on the board, I think the Giants draft room had very strong convictions on wanting all three of these specific players in Blue.
I think that last year and this  
Phil in LA : 5/8/2019 11:34 pm : link
the Giants might have been using a shorter board than we've been used to.
I wanted Burr-Kirven and was really pissed when the Seahawks got him  
Eric on Li : 5/8/2019 11:35 pm : link
but that said, I am really excited to see Connelly. I posted it on another thread but he is really remarkably similar to Borland (including and beyond being a white guy with a low 40's # who played LB at Wisconsin).

Connelly's raw statistical production the last 2 years has been really close to Borland's, he actually had a better combine across the board, and there's even plenty of praise from the more advanced grading services like PFF. I do think you are very much on to something in terms of the Giants targetting him.
RE: I think that last year and this  
SGMen : 5/8/2019 11:39 pm : link
In comment 14437231 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
the Giants might have been using a shorter board than we've been used to.
Agreed.
RE: I think that last year and this  
Eric on Li : 5/8/2019 11:39 pm : link
In comment 14437231 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
the Giants might have been using a shorter board than we've been used to.


1 of the scouts said that's the case (Petit maybe?).
I forgot to mention  
YANKEE28 : 5/8/2019 11:51 pm : link
that in Round 4 of the draft, there were 36 selections made and that only one linebacker-the Chargers taking Notre Dame LB Drew Tranquill- was drafted in the entire round.

RE: I think that last year and this  
AdamBrag : 5/8/2019 11:54 pm : link
In comment 14437231 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
the Giants might have been using a shorter board than we've been used to.


Interesting, why do you think this?
Borland  
Jay in Toronto : 5/8/2019 11:58 pm : link
Was a better tackler.
Borland  
adambear : 5/9/2019 12:09 am : link
was a much better player than Connelly. Too smart for his own good. Ended up quitting football because of it.

Connelly is a better overall athlete, though.
I think this because  
Phil in LA : 5/9/2019 12:11 am : link
they really didn't have any misses in the last draft and they seemed to hit cetain groups over and over (like DL and CB) while not hitting other groups who may not have hit their markers.

Also because last year Shurmur referred to a list they had before the draft.
I think the Giants came into this draft  
AdamBrag : 5/9/2019 12:19 am : link
thinking they needed pressure up the middle.

Dexter Lawrence is a big part of that. Connolly could be the other piece in that. His skill blitzing is impressive. f you look at the rest of the LBs drafted in Round 5, there's some good players, but none with Connelly's blitzing skill.

The questions with him is whether he will be able to get off blocks in the run game and will he hold up in coverage.
Haven’t read much on him till I came across this thread  
BSIMatt : 5/9/2019 12:26 am : link
Found this interesting...

Quote:


According to research from Austin Gayle at Pro Football Focus, Connelly ran the third-quickest 10-yard split (1.54 seconds) of any off-ball linebacker that weighed in at 240-plus pounds at the NFL Combine since 2010.


Quote:

Connelly combines his instincts, vision, quickness, and burst to disrupt the play and it shows up both in his game tape and his advanced stats. According to PFF, Connelly finished with an overall grade higher than Michigan linebacker and No. 10 overall draft pick Devin Bush. Connelly also finished with a top-15 pass rush grade overall (among off-ball linebackers) and he only allowed 46 total yards after the catch on all receptions allowed -- the best mark among all linebackers in the 2019 draft class. Taking it one step further, Connelly allowed just 0.38 passing yards per coverage snap -- sixth-best in the class.

One key trait likely led the Giants to draft Ryan Connelly - ( New Window )
RE: I think the Giants came into this draft  
BlueLou'sBack : 5/9/2019 12:41 am : link
In comment 14437245 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
thinking they needed pressure up the middle.

Dexter Lawrence is a big part of that. Connolly could be the other piece in that. His skill blitzing is impressive. f you look at the rest of the LBs drafted in Round 5, there's some good players, but none with Connelly's blitzing skill.

The questions with him is whether he will be able to get off blocks in the run game and will he hold up in coverage.


If pressure up the middle was their top priority, they would have grabbed Oliver at 6 not Lawrence at 17, and please don't give me that "Jones wasn't gonna be there at 17" shtick - because that means that "pressure up the middle" wasn't such a high priority after all. Or maybe taken Bush at 6, Tillery or Simmons at 17 (Simmons went after Lawrence, right?). I mean, you're just throwin shit at the wall to see what sticks.

Likewise, if "pressure up the middle" and Connelly were such needed targets, why the X man at 95?

They wanted a QB, a CB, a Hog molly DL, and and edge rusher and that's what they took their first 4 picks, no specific "pressure up the middle" guy among them.

What you can and should say, and it's obvious, is the Gmen had Connelly ranked a good bit higher than the pundits and draftniks ranked him. More than that? Well you might add they jumped the shark on the LB run, to boot. Good for them. It's the opposite of when a gazillion RBs including some really good ones came off the board shortly before Reese and Ross reached for the eminently average Gallman in round 4, when they must've panicked that the RB pool was getting mighty shallow.

Yes its prolly better to get one of the first specific position players before A RUN than one of the leftovers at the end of a run, but let's see what happens.

Connelly caught my eye the day we drafted him too I think. I started a thread about him calling him "intriguing." Admittedly Yankees put a lot more research and effort into noting, more or less, the same idea... ;)
BSI Matt - great find but its PFF.  
BlueLou'sBack : 5/9/2019 12:51 am : link
Sy thinks Connelly is somewhat unathletic and poor in coverage. We will wait and see. His combine metrics were good, for sure, but not great. Very similar I bet, off the top of my head, to Bryan Kehl or Jon Goff whom we grabbed in the 4th and 5th rounds in - was it 2008?

Kehl was miserable, didn't like contact, and there may be some of that in Connelly - he tends to avoid blockers rather than taking them on, stuffing and shedding.

But I've seen far too little tape of him to state that as more than a very casual and brief observation.
I'm not sure about your premise...  
Milton : 5/9/2019 5:20 am : link
I agree that the Giants were fortunate to get out ahead of a run on LBs in round 5, but there were a bunch of LBs who went beforehand (Jahlani Tavai, Sione Takitaki, Germaine Pratt, Robert Okereke, Drue Tranquill, and Cody Barton went in rounds 2 through 4).
Great Thread Yankee28!  
ZogZerg : 5/9/2019 6:27 am : link
Very interesting way to look at how the LBrs fell.
Nice to see that the Giants get there man at the beginning of the rush.
Vosean..  
90.Cal : 5/9/2019 7:35 am : link
..
RE: I'm not sure about your premise...  
Klaatu : 5/9/2019 8:11 am : link
In comment 14437296 Milton said:
Quote:
I agree that the Giants were fortunate to get out ahead of a run on LBs in round 5, but there were a bunch of LBs who went beforehand (Jahlani Tavai, Sione Takitaki, Germaine Pratt, Robert Okereke, Drue Tranquill, and Cody Barton went in rounds 2 through 4).


Not to mention OLB's who get classified as "Edge" or ER's (such as our own 3rd Rd pick, Oshane Ximines, or pre-draft BBI fave, Chase Winovich, also a 3rd rounder). which can result in questionable analysis. Were four LB's drafted in the 3rd round, or seven?

That's one reason I don't like the term "Edge" at all.
The immediate..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/9/2019 8:56 am : link
reaction to Connelly on draft day was pretty funny. Because he was white, you saw a lot of comparisons to Chase Blackburn and being slow.

One wannabe scout actually made the comment "He wasn't high on my draft board. Bad pick"
RE: I think the Giants came into this draft  
GothamGiants : 5/9/2019 9:03 am : link
In comment 14437245 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
thinking they needed pressure up the middle.

Dexter Lawrence is a big part of that. Connolly could be the other piece in that. His skill blitzing is impressive. f you look at the rest of the LBs drafted in Round 5, there's some good players, but none with Connelly's blitzing skill.

The questions with him is whether he will be able to get off blocks in the run game and will he hold up in coverage.


great point ... his potential as a rusher often goes ignored. He has elite short area quickness and his ability to "shoot the gap" as well as any LB in this class should impact both the run and pass game.

I said on draft day - he's going to be a starter sooner than later, and it wouldn't surprise me if he's stuffing Zeke in the backfield week 1.

Loved this pick.
Connelly - ( New Window )
Y28  
JonC : 5/9/2019 9:07 am : link
Great stuff!

Two things leaped out on Connelly : nose for the football, and excellent at shooting gaps which requires instincts and short distance explosion. He's got some AA, get him in the classroom and weightroom and start the process. He should be able to unseat Goodson or other.
RE: The immediate..  
Klaatu : 5/9/2019 9:12 am : link
In comment 14437384 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
reaction to Connelly on draft day was pretty funny. Because he was white, you saw a lot of comparisons to Chase Blackburn and being slow.

One wannabe scout actually made the comment "He wasn't high on my draft board. Bad pick"


A High Motor White Guy is never slow!
I love..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/9/2019 9:18 am : link
the fact that the acronym HMWG is actually used!!
RE: I love..  
Klaatu : 5/9/2019 9:20 am : link
In comment 14437409 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the fact that the acronym HMWG is actually used!!


I know, right?

Quote:
Chase Blackburn 2.0, maybe?
Klaatu : 4/27/2019 2:06 pm : link
Did we get our HMWG here?
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/9/2019 9:23 am : link
That's perfect!
I don't think Connelly will unseat  
Dnew15 : 5/9/2019 9:49 am : link
Goodson. It's rare that a 5th rd LB comes into camp and wins an opening day starter spot - period.

Having said that, Goodson has proven himself to be injury prone, so there's a good chance this kid is going to have a chance to show what he's got at some point.
I thought it was established on another thread that Connelly  
Dr. D : 5/9/2019 11:49 am : link
is not a HMWG. He's a SHMWG (Super High Motor White Guy).
RE: I thought it was established on another thread that Connelly  
Klaatu : 5/9/2019 12:01 pm : link
In comment 14437657 Dr. D said:
Quote:
is not a HMWG. He's a SHMWG (Super High Motor White Guy).


Yeah, that was me, too.

Quote:
RE: Guys
Klaatu : 4/27/2019 3:22 pm : link
In comment 14416010 RAIN said:
Quote:
Read. Do you just read your own posts? He was injured. He’s not a HMWg.

He played and produced despite having a torn ab, off the bone, torn. He got it fixed and showed his mobility at the combine.


So...SHMWG - Super High Motor White Guy.
RE: I thought it was established on another thread that Connelly  
GothamGiants : 5/9/2019 12:07 pm : link
In comment 14437657 Dr. D said:
Quote:
is not a HMWG. He's a SHMWG (Super High Motor White Guy).


more athletic CJ Mosley ...

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/ryan-connelly

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/cj-mosley-2014?position=LB

Size: Connelly
Vert: CJM
40: =
Broad: =
3-Cone = Connelly
20-yard shuttle: =

4.6 speed with elite 10 yard split and better 3-cone than Mosley ... Connelly is going to be a fan favorite sooner than later
I’m Not So Sure  
Samiam : 5/9/2019 12:08 pm : link
I think the biggest shortcoming in the inside LB position on the team is in coverage. Seems to me that neither Ogletree or Goodson can cover at all and I was hoping that weakness would be addressed. I think Seattle May have grabbed the guy who could. From what I’ve read, Connelley might not be the answer
If any of those guys  
Gman11 : 5/9/2019 12:10 pm : link
are in the NFL two years from now it'll be a bonus for the team that picked them.
RE: I'm not sure about your premise...  
Big Blue Blogger : 5/9/2019 2:47 pm : link
Milton said:
Quote:
I agree that the Giants were fortunate to get out ahead of a run on LBs in round 5, but there were a bunch of LBs who went beforehand (Jahlani Tavai, Sione Takitaki, Germaine Pratt, Robert Okereke, Drue Tranquill, and Cody Barton went in rounds 2 through 4).
Fair point, but I think several of those guys project outside. Tavai and Takitaki were probably misclassified; they were edge players in college, and seem to have been drafted so early for their pass-rush prowess more than anything else. Pratt and Okereke are true LBs, but most profiles suggest their best position is OLB.

As a potential successor to either Goodson or Ogletree, it's plausible that Connelly might have been #3 on the Giants' board. White and Bush were the only prospects on a totally different level. There was pretty solid draftnik support for Mack Wilson, but it didn't translate to any of 32 NFL teams wanting him before the middle of Round Five.
RE: I don't think Connelly will unseat  
JonC : 5/9/2019 2:50 pm : link
In comment 14437452 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
Goodson. It's rare that a 5th rd LB comes into camp and wins an opening day starter spot - period.

Having said that, Goodson has proven himself to be injury prone, so there's a good chance this kid is going to have a chance to show what he's got at some point.


It's based on a few factors including Goodson's contract status, and what I think is a growing possibility he's not a high quality NFL starter. In other words, he can be replaced and he's a draft pick of the prior regime. DG is churning the roster everywhere ...
There is nothing special about Goodson  
GothamGiants : 5/9/2019 2:52 pm : link
If any “vet” is losing their job to a rookie, he’s 1 of the first to go
Good thread  
idiotsavant : 5/9/2019 3:02 pm : link
The Getts and crew seem to have known what they wanted. Great news.

Regarding Goodson, whereas I never saw it ( pre draft ) with him, give the player a chance, 4 pds 2 ints last season ain't too shabby either.
Vets who could be replaced by rookies:  
Big Blue Blogger : 5/9/2019 3:10 pm : link
B.W. Webb*/Sam Beal/Janoris Jenkins --> Deandre Baker
Dalvin Tomlinson** --> Dexter Lawrence
Grant Haley/Antoine Bethea --> Julian Love
B.J. Goodson/Tae Davis --> Ryan Connelly
Eli Manning --> Daniel Jones
Kareem Martin/Markus Golden --> Oshane Ximines
Scott Simonson --> C.J. Conrad
Corey Coleman/Cody Latimer --> Darius Slayton
Chad Wheeler --> George Asafo-Adjei or literally anyone, if they don't sign a vet like Remmers.
* - Already gone
**- Change of primary position

It's entirely plausible, though, that NONE of these displacements might happen until 2020, if ever.
Goodson was a Sy'56 favorite coming out of Clemson.  
Big Blue Blogger : 5/9/2019 3:20 pm : link
Bit of a one-year wonder there, IIRC. He needed developmental time, so expectations were low his rookie year. The injuries in 2017 were a huge setback, and then he had to learn a new system/position in 2018. No excuse for mediocrity, of course. I think he has been decent in a limited role. Nothing special, certainly, and 2019 is a make-or-break contract year. He just turned 26, so if he's going to show us something, now's the time.

Ogletree is a fairly easy cut after this season, so the team could choose to keep Goodson if he makes the big jump.
The expectations for Goodson don't seem to line up  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/9/2019 3:31 pm : link
fairly with the player. Plus he's an inside backer. You're not going to see a lot of splash plays or plays in the passing game. He seems like a three-down player, and run-stuffing doesn't produce highlights with which to sell people on his value.
must have liked him ..  
Bluesbreaker : 5/9/2019 8:09 pm : link
I like Goodson myself and still think he will make a bigger
impact this season . Connelly seams to do a great job
shooting gaps and working through the trash to make
tackles I assume he will be very good on specials right away . If he has the speed to get to the edges then
he will help . I don't see him beating out Goodson this
season though .
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