for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Do you think the Giants have a surprise 9-7 season in them?

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/9/2019 2:37 pm
The turnover on this team has been massive and a bit reminiscent of the 1983 > 1984 turnover conducted by George Young and Bill Parcells.

Expectations are very low for this team, as they were for the 1984 Giants. Shurmur/Shula/Bettcher now entering their second season.

Pure fantasy? Or realistic possibility?
Pages: 1 2 3 4 <<Prev | Show All |
This is a 6-10 team folks  
Optimus-NY : 5/10/2019 1:53 am : link
I don't know what you're all rambling bout. They're going to get better. Hopefully, by 2021, they'll be a playoff team. 2019 and 2020 are all about reloading. 2018 ws about reshuffling the deck with respect to the cancers on the team. The Giants have got to break in Jones at QB in 2020. 2019 is Eli's swan song. Have Jones watch and learn from Easy E. If Jones shows positive signs in 2020, then NYG will be in good shape going forward from 2021 onwards. It's nice to be optimistic, but curb your enthusiasm just a bit folks. IT's still a work in progress. Enjoy the process. The Ws will follow eventually if it's built right, but that time is certainly not now.
Every year some team seemingly pops up out of the blue  
Phil in LA : 5/10/2019 2:13 am : link
why can't it be big blue? Get a decent right tackle in, and the O can explpde with Saquon and play-action.
I would be disappointed by a 9-7 season...  
Milton : 5/10/2019 2:32 am : link
Especially if it meant missing the playoffs. I'm thinking 11-5 or 12-4 if they're not undone by injuries.
id go with that  
msh : 5/10/2019 3:54 am : link
9-7 or 10-6 is possible they fixed a helluva lot of the teams problems zietler and tate are huge pickups the draft fixed the defences most glaring holes at NT and not only fixed the CB position but added depth too

i do think peppers will be better in coverage than collins was so i dont think thats putting the guy in the HoF saying that,bethea gives them the QB of the secondry to keep them lined up corrrectly that also an upgrade thats not being factored at this point by many

i think DG nailed his second draft in a row i think josh allen will bust im not so sure jones is the right guy yet but im open to the idea and will be happy to be proved wrong about him. i personally would have taken devin bush or ed oliver there over allen anyway and i would have taken grier later in the draft

i would also have taken big ben or rivers from that draft they ended up trading for eli in as well. jones this year is why they were so comfortable taking barkley last year so they have conviction the fans dont have about him,he is a much better runner than they had so he does have the legs to get first downs and touchdowns in the redzone they havent had since eli's early years which is a dimension they havent had for a while

they could just as easily be a 3-6 win team as well but i think the defence is better and if halapio comes back 100% and is as good as they think and they can add a RT i would lean to more of the 9-10 win year over the 9-10 loss year but we need to see them in preseason to gauge if we think they did get that much better overall or not

they need the OL to be much better to spring barkley and they needed tate to keep a sefety deep and not give barkley constant 8 man boxes to beat every play this is why DG signed him i was surprised the level of venom he got for signing him i thought it was a very good pickup but after trading beckham he knew he was going to be public enemy number 1 regardless
RE: I would be disappointed by a 9-7 season...  
Giantology : 5/10/2019 6:00 am : link
In comment 14438434 Milton said:
Quote:
Especially if it meant missing the playoffs. I'm thinking 11-5 or 12-4 if they're not undone by injuries.


I can’t imagine having expectations that high for this season. It’s a lovely thought, and I am always hopeful that we win double digit games... but there is no evidence yet to support that kind of optimism.
Just about any team in the NFL can go 9-7.  
Big Blue Blogger : 5/10/2019 7:55 am : link
Heck, the 2018 Giants could easily have gone 9-7 with a few breaks, and without the early injuries to Vernon, Engram and Halapio. They still would have been a poorly-constructed, paper-thin team. The 2019 version is better - at least on paper. So yes, they could very well go 9-7. And after doing that, they would be equally likely to go 12-4 or 4-12 in 2020.
Based on the schedule  
ryanmkeane : 5/10/2019 8:17 am : link
I’d say 9-7 is definitely possible. If we made the jump from 5 wins to 9 and keep building the roster, I think we can all agree Shurmur has righted the ship at least for the immediate future. I think 2020 is the serious contender year. If we make the playoffs this year, it’ll be a bonus.
The funny thing is that most folks  
ryanmkeane : 5/10/2019 8:19 am : link
here are saying that “Gettleman got rid of all of our talent on defense”

Sure, Vernon, JPP, Harrison were “talented” but outside of Snacks, those guys got us absolutely nowhere. They weren’t very productive.
Forgot to throw in Collins  
ryanmkeane : 5/10/2019 8:19 am : link
regarding the defense. He’s talented, yes. But where exactly did he make an impact last season?
RE: RE: I would be disappointed by a 9-7 season...  
Milton : 5/10/2019 8:24 am : link
In comment 14438441 Giantology said:
Quote:
In comment 14438434 Milton said:


Quote:


Especially if it meant missing the playoffs. I'm thinking 11-5 or 12-4 if they're not undone by injuries.


I can’t imagine having expectations that high for this season. It’s a lovely thought, and I am always hopeful that we win double digit games... but there is no evidence yet to support that kind of optimism.
I believe in the talent on the roster and I believe in Shurmur and Bettcher. I believe in Barkley. And I'm unimpressed by the rest of the division. The Giants will be a team in which the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. That will not be the case for the Cowboys and Eagles.

Ultimately it will come down to health. Injuries will rescramble the landscape starting with training camp and continuing throughout the season. Hopefully it won't be too bad for the Giants.
People posting about double digit wins  
ajr2456 : 5/10/2019 8:35 am : link
Are overestimating the talent on this team.

It’s bad in places and very young in others. This team won’t sniff double digits, there’s going to be too many ups and downs.

Also, strength of schedule doesn’t factor in that other teams improved. The Giants could easily go 1-3 vs the AFC East as they could 3-1.
Yes  
Jimmy Googs : 5/10/2019 8:42 am : link
however it will be in 2020...
RE: Forgot to throw in Collins  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/10/2019 9:26 am : link
In comment 14438496 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
regarding the defense. He’s talented, yes. But where exactly did he make an impact last season?


This kind of comment seems like it forgets that 1 player on defense can be individually excellent and not be a savior. Darrelle Revis didn't win anything with the Jets. Did he not make an impact? He was still all-world at his job.


A great safety on a bad defense just isn't going to save the day. One player on any unit isn't going to save the day if he's surrounded with junk. The correct way to look at it is not to run down the player. It's the expectation that's wrong.

Absolutely - but we need some luck with injuries  
Bob in Newburgh : 5/10/2019 9:30 am : link
Particularly if SB goes down for an extended period, we would still win some games, but are no longer a legimate contender.
In Vegas  
pjcas18 : 5/10/2019 9:33 am : link
(and I assume other places like Rhode Island and maybe Jersey) where you can bet sports futures, the Giants win total is 6.

If you think there's a chance they can win 9 games that's a decent bet.
3/5 of a finished OL  
JonC : 5/10/2019 9:39 am : link
and a defense with a ton of young parts with little to no NFL experience. The defense in particular will need time to learn the system, and we need to see if the pass rush has more production than expected.
RE: RE: 13-3  
bradshaw44 : 5/10/2019 9:41 am : link
In comment 14437972 Alex_Webster said:
Quote:
In comment 14437967 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


Eli league MVP
Lombardi #5

You heard it here first.



You beat me to the punch. With an extra win I might add. good work!!!


Standard deviation of +1/-1 and we picked exactly the same!
The Giants  
George : 5/10/2019 9:45 am : link
Have an unsurprising 4-12 season in them.

But 2020 could be better if they draft well.
They'll be "scrappy"  
AcesUp : 5/10/2019 9:54 am : link
instead of labeled as "underachieving". I'm not sure what that would mean for the win total but a softer schedule, some luck with injuries and a more consistent brand of football should equal a couple of more wins. I'll echo what others have said about next year being the target.

If they're not a playoff team, I don't care all that much if they win 5 or 10 games as long as they are able to form an identity and some of the younger talent continues to progress.
Absolutely  
Bramton1 : 5/10/2019 10:27 am : link
They have a favorable schedule. If the offensive line gels together, if the team doesn't get ravaged by injuries, if the team gets a little luck at the right times, then definitely 9-7 is possible.

ESPN simulated the 2019 season 40,000 times. Every team managed to win the Super Bowl. The article about the simulations said that even the Dolphins managed to win it once. I would assume the Giants won it at least twice.

There is too much parity in the league for a team to have no chance whatsoever of a winning season. Or at least in May.
Last year  
clydeman1 : 5/10/2019 10:51 am : link
we let 4 games slip away that should have been won. Carolina, Atlanta, Indy, and the last week against Dallas. Turn those into wins and we end up 9-7. We were so close to a decent season, but late game melt downs by the defense, and inability to protect Eli became our Achilles heel. Off season and draft acquisitions should put us, at the very least, 7-9 or 8-8. I'm cautiously optimistic.....and I'm especially rooting for Dungey to make the roster, he was so exciting to watch at SU (remember, they came VERY close to beating Clemson AT Clemson). We could get surprised with a 9-7, or 10-6 season.
RE: Last year  
ajr2456 : 5/10/2019 11:00 am : link
In comment 14438671 clydeman1 said:
Quote:
we let 4 games slip away that should have been won. Carolina, Atlanta, Indy, and the last week against Dallas. Turn those into wins and we end up 9-7. We were so close to a decent season, but late game melt downs by the defense, and inability to protect Eli became our Achilles heel. Off season and draft acquisitions should put us, at the very least, 7-9 or 8-8. I'm cautiously optimistic.....and I'm especially rooting for Dungey to make the roster, he was so exciting to watch at SU (remember, they came VERY close to beating Clemson AT Clemson). We could get surprised with a 9-7, or 10-6 season.


What about the wins that could have gone the other way because other teams let them slip away?
I see this team as somewhere between '17 Bears & '18 Bears  
Eric on Li : 5/10/2019 11:10 am : link
defense is young and talented, OL investments moving in right direction, QB of future on the roster but not a sure thing day, dynamic running game, etc.

Differences
- Shurmur is in year 2 whereas '17 Bears were last year of John Fox and '18 Bears were year 1 of Nagy.
- Giants have Eli, who is obviously better than Glennon as a placeholder until Jones is ready
- '18 Bears had Khalil Mack

'17 Bears won 5 games
'18 Bears won 12 games
Median = 9 wins

But I do agree with others, this org is more setup to compete in 2020. The cap room should help add another defensive impact player as well as the 2020 draft capital.
The best case scenario is we are last years Browns.  
Zeke's Alibi : 5/10/2019 11:11 am : link
Lots of young talented players that show this season that the arrow is pointing up.

Better than the Eagles/Cowboys as the sum of the parts? I will say Brandon Brooks injury is a massive blow to the Eagles, but they have Carson Wentz one year removed from his injury. Expect a big step up there. There is a reason Vegas has them as faves to win NFC East. The Cowboys defense is legit and if Travis Frederick returns to form watch out. The Giants have about 6 what ifs that need to happen. Injuries can change things on a dime in the NFL as we saw with the Redskins last year. They lost the majority of their Oline in one game and QB the next. They were probably on their way to 10 wins.
Offense is better than the one that scored 27,40, and 35 points  
Giantz_comeback : 5/10/2019 11:20 am : link
In 3 of the last 4 games. Remember we did that without OBJ. Now you add Tate and a further improved OL to that mix. Shurmur began to better understand how to use Engram late season too.

Then on the D side we have an influx of better fitting peices at Bettcher's disposal.

And lets not underrate the character/culture improvement.

Lastly easier schedule. 10-6 is not out of the question. Biggest wild card to me is how quickly Bettcher can get all these young new peices playing defense how he wants to play defense. If this D is just average we have enough firepower with Saquon who could already by the best overall offensive weapon in the NFL to win double digit games.

Yes  
Thegratefulhead : 5/10/2019 12:00 pm : link
Jones's presence is going to inspire Eli into his best season in years. 4500 yds 69% 31 TDs 13 Int 9-7
I think 8-8 is more likely.  
yatqb : 5/10/2019 12:21 pm : link
But I'd argue for anywhere from 6 to 9 wins depending upon whether we develop a pass rush and whether our DBs can get up to speed quickly.
RE: In Vegas  
Milton : 5/10/2019 12:39 pm : link
In comment 14438565 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
(and I assume other places like Rhode Island and maybe Jersey) where you can bet sports futures, the Giants win total is 6.

If you think there's a chance they can win 9 games that's a decent bet.
I want in on their 16-1 odds to win the division.
I'm on record - 10-6  
GiantsUA : 5/10/2019 2:16 pm : link
.
Fast start  
Thegratefulhead : 5/10/2019 2:24 pm : link
It would be great if the coaching staff could provide a "schematic advantage" for the first couple of games with a game plan that provides a couple of easy TDs. If you give these young guys some confidence early I believe they could fly. If we are 0-2 and facing a must win in game 3, we could be in for a long season.
.  
arcarsenal : 5/10/2019 5:01 pm : link
The Giants really need to stop losing Week 1 games.

If I'm going by memory, I am fairly certain that the 2016 opener in Dallas is the only Week 1 game the Giants have won since 2010.

Nearly an entire decade of losing our first game of the season.

Not how you want to start. I want to see that change this year. Teams are always vulnerable in Week 1 because they haven't fully identified what's going to work and what isn't.

We need to go into that building and get a win.

1-7 in our last 8 openers is inexcusable. We need to stop getting off on the wrong foot.
RE: .  
RicosRoidedElbow : 5/10/2019 5:30 pm : link
In comment 14439240 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
The Giants really need to stop losing Week 1 games.

If I'm going by memory, I am fairly certain that the 2016 opener in Dallas is the only Week 1 game the Giants have won since 2010.

Nearly an entire decade of losing our first game of the season.

Not how you want to start. I want to see that change this year. Teams are always vulnerable in Week 1 because they haven't fully identified what's going to work and what isn't.

We need to go into that building and get a win.

1-7 in our last 8 openers is inexcusable. We need to stop getting off on the wrong foot.


It is clear and plain that there is a bias against the Giants when involving the Cowboys. I get the Giants draw ratings vs the Cowboys but why does that ALWAYS have to be in Dallas? Huh?

I think there was once when the Giants opened at home vs Dallas and the Giants were defending champions. Surprised no one raised the proposal to have that game IN Dallas so the little bitch Cowboys and their fans got their way. Still a lot of Dallas fans in NJ who got their way thanks to David Wilson and I remember Victor Cruz not doing so well in that game.
and Giants finally opened at home last year vs tough  
RicosRoidedElbow : 5/10/2019 5:31 pm : link
Jaguars defense
Key to the Giants season could be a FAST start  
SGMen : 5/10/2019 6:44 pm : link
I don't think the Giants schedule is overly difficult, especially because we aren't traveling all that much or all that far when we do. We have no back to back road games due to the bye week.

Beat Dallas in Dallas. That would make me begin to believe we are a playoff type team.
RE: Forgot to throw in Collins  
Giants_Rock : 5/10/2019 9:55 pm : link
In comment 14438496 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
regarding the defense. He’s talented, yes. But where exactly did he make an impact last season?


Collins led the team in tackles for the 4th straight year. That probably had some impact don't you think?
Just because the overall team hasn't been good lately doesn't mean we didn't have good players. Bad coaching and lots of bad players were the problem and not Collins, Snacks, JPP, Vernon and certainly not OBJ.

RE: Offense is better than the one that scored 27,40, and 35 points  
Giants_Rock : 5/10/2019 10:11 pm : link
In comment 14438721 Giantz_comeback said:
Quote:
In 3 of the last 4 games. Remember we did that without OBJ. Now you add Tate and a further improved OL to that mix. Shurmur began to better understand how to use Engram late season too.

Then on the D side we have an influx of better fitting peices at Bettcher's disposal.

And lets not underrate the character/culture improvement.

Lastly easier schedule. 10-6 is not out of the question. Biggest wild card to me is how quickly Bettcher can get all these young new peices playing defense how he wants to play defense. If this D is just average we have enough firepower with Saquon who could already by the best overall offensive weapon in the NFL to win double digit games.


lol, funny how you left out getting shutout by a mediocre Titans team 17-0. Also the 40 points was against a Redskins team that was tanking. The 35 points was against a cowboys team that was resting everybody that was at all nicked up. The 27 points against the colts was legit though .... but we still lost.
Tackles are such a florid statistic  
RicosRoidedElbow : 5/10/2019 10:15 pm : link
.
RE: Tackles are such a florid statistic  
Giants_Rock : 5/10/2019 10:39 pm : link
In comment 14439524 RicosRoidedElbow said:
Quote:
.


hmm, I would say it's more of a cardinal statistic.
Collins behind OBJ might have been the most  
RicosRoidedElbow : 5/10/2019 10:53 pm : link
overrated Giant of all time
RE: Collins behind OBJ might have been the most  
Giants_Rock : 5/11/2019 5:55 pm : link
In comment 14439561 RicosRoidedElbow said:
Quote:
overrated Giant of all time


lol, you just lost all your credibility.
RE: RE: Offense is better than the one that scored 27,40, and 35 points  
Giantz_comeback : 5/11/2019 6:03 pm : link
In comment 14439520 Giants_Rock said:
Quote:
In comment 14438721 Giantz_comeback said:


Quote:


In 3 of the last 4 games. Remember we did that without OBJ. Now you add Tate and a further improved OL to that mix. Shurmur began to better understand how to use Engram late season too.

Then on the D side we have an influx of better fitting peices at Bettcher's disposal.

And lets not underrate the character/culture improvement.

Lastly easier schedule. 10-6 is not out of the question. Biggest wild card to me is how quickly Bettcher can get all these young new peices playing defense how he wants to play defense. If this D is just average we have enough firepower with Saquon who could already by the best overall offensive weapon in the NFL to win double digit games.




lol, funny how you left out getting shutout by a mediocre Titans team 17-0. Also the 40 points was against a Redskins team that was tanking. The 35 points was against a cowboys team that was resting everybody that was at all nicked up. The 27 points against the colts was legit though .... but we still lost.


Defense is the bigger question mark but we have alot more talent and better fitting pieces for Bettcher's D. Question is how quickly can they get acclimated to the NFL.
massive turnover in 1984?  
Giants_Rock : 5/11/2019 6:49 pm : link
There wasn't anywhere near the turnover between 1983 and 1984 as we've seen under DG the last two years. Five rookies started in 1984 but other than that every other starter in 1984 was on the team in 1983. The only players of note that were replaced were Van Pelt and Brian Kelly both of whom were late in their careers. I shutter to think what DG might have done to the '83 roster (LT as a Brown...yuck).
RE: RE: Collins behind OBJ might have been the most  
RicosRoidedElbow : 5/11/2019 7:03 pm : link
In comment 14440040 Giants_Rock said:
Quote:
In comment 14439561 RicosRoidedElbow said:


Quote:


overrated Giant of all time



lol, you just lost all your credibility.


Care to dispute the validity of my words or are you just going to make an insult without any evidence like 97% of people these days?

If not, just run along and let the big boys talk football.
RE: RE: RE: Collins behind OBJ might have been the most  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/11/2019 8:02 pm : link
In comment 14440117 RicosRoidedElbow said:
Quote:
In comment 14440040 Giants_Rock said:


Quote:


In comment 14439561 RicosRoidedElbow said:


Quote:


overrated Giant of all time



lol, you just lost all your credibility.



Care to dispute the validity of my words or are you just going to make an insult without any evidence like 97% of people these days?

If not, just run along and let the big boys talk football.


Hey new account. What's your previous handle?
I can easily see a 9-7 season  
BlueLou'sBack : 5/11/2019 11:30 pm : link
but it's gonna take some masterful work to get the D to gel. And a big step up for Carter, and a huge return to form for Golden.

I'm excited to see Baker go to work, and Lawrence is already pro level. Of course he can get better, too.

They say OLs need time to gel too, but Zeitler and Remmers have had a few turns on the dance floor already. I think they'll mesh quicker than Solder and Hernandez did last year.
I would be surprised  
fireitup77 : 5/11/2019 11:51 pm : link
I see this team winning 11 games!
Run vs. pass  
cznmike : 5/12/2019 8:03 am : link
IF they consistently run the ball more than they pass, they'll win games. Look back over Eli's history. When they run the ball first, to set up the pass, they've managed to win games. When the game plan calls for passing first, the results have typically not been impressive.

They have the backfield, they've improved the O line. Now all they have to do is utilize them to keep the ball away from Eli and the other team.
I don't  
Mark from Jersey : 5/12/2019 8:25 am : link
I think the offense will struggle at times to move the ball, especially early in the season.

This defense will be on the field a lot, give up a lot of points, and will not let the offense establish itself.

This offense is not a come from behind type offense and the defense is not nearly close enough to compliment it the way it is currently structured.

We are 5-11 to 7-9 at best and that is more due to an easier schedule when compared to last year than improved roster. I think we need another draft and need to get Eli off the books and get some FA's here.
RE: I don't  
Giantz_comeback : 5/12/2019 8:29 am : link
In comment 14440434 Mark from Jersey said:
Quote:
I think the offense will struggle at times to move the ball, especially early in the season.

This defense will be on the field a lot, give up a lot of points, and will not let the offense establish itself.

This offense is not a come from behind type offense and the defense is not nearly close enough to compliment it the way it is currently structured.

We are 5-11 to 7-9 at best and that is more due to an easier schedule when compared to last year than improved roster. I think we need another draft and need to get Eli off the books and get some FA's here.


Then you must have thought the 2nd half of last year was a total aberration offensively. What has downgraded from that team? Coaching, talent, culture? OBJ didn't play most of those games and we've upgraded in many other spots and are now 2nd year in the system.
So what  
RicosRoidedElbow : 5/12/2019 3:30 pm : link
Giants were 7-9 in 2013, that team was trash because Reese couldn't figure out how to foster an offensive line.

Then genius Reese drafts OBJ in '14 and the Giants have an even worse record, 6-10. OK he was injured the first games of his career in 2014. OK. Then what gave in 2015? Still went 6-10.

He is not needed. I'd much rather have a decent offensive line, solid defense and running game. Give me Golden Tate any day over OBJ and Randle.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner