Do you think the Giants have a surprise 9-7 season in them?

I drew up scenarios that could go 12-4 or 8-8 so I settled on 10-6. It's only in small part because I believe the team will improve from last year. It's mostly due to strength of schedule. Take a good look at the up-coming schedule and you should see it's laid out better for the Giants than I've seen in a long time.

I think 9-7 is on the optimistic side, but achievable if we come out on the winning side of some close games. I think 8-8 or 7-9 is more realistic. I'd still be happy with 7-9, lose some close games, stay in the hunt, etc., big improvement over 3-13 two years ago.

The 3-13 debacle was the worst season I have seen as a Giant's fan. I was too young for the 1970's. My expectations for this franchise have been lowered.

we played defense with ten players last year as Riley refused to tackle

we could win 9+ with Jones more than Eli as the QB.

My displeasure with the Jones pick at #6 is well documented, but he has movement skills that apparently Shurmur prefers in his QB prototype. I'd like to think he is athletic enough to extend plays with his legs to make throws and/or run to convert crucial third downs. And handing it off to Barkley 400X and throwing it to him another 100X is something he can do just as well as Eli.

At the end of the day, I don't know what to expect from either QB. Eli is older and even less athletic. And Jones is young and athletic. So why not go for it?

tp 10-6 wouldn't shock me. They have a young Defense and a couple of missing pieces on O, but the offensive line geling and the defense generating a pass rush and stopping the run will be the big issues.

My one big question mark and fear is the coaching. Shurmur had some real clunker decisions at some crucial points in some close games last year. And while I am hopeful Bettcher has more talent to work with, I am not fully sold on his 'scheme'. Its a very wait and see year.....

generally BBI overestimates the talent level on this team. Everyone will go gaga over camp reports about how wonderful this guy or that guy looks forgetting that they are competing against some of the worst talent in the NFL. I expect we will hear a lot of gushing about the db's this preseason forgetting that the receiving corp they are going up against in practice may be one of the worst in the NFL.

The HC seems like a good guy but he's still searching for the magical .500 mark. I don't see it happening this year. This team is a RB injury away from being one of the worst in the NFL.

I love our corners..beal and baker have lockdown potential. we know what JJ can bring and love can he not only solid in man coverage but a stud in zone.. peppers and bethea should shine. I love our D line depth and potential pass rush. While we don't have one 15 sack guy we have like 5-6 guys that can get 7-8. Ximines, carter, Golden, Hill, Tomlinson and lawrence. Those guys along with a few others should do a great job against the run. Our linebackers are suspect but I do expect more in the 2nd year of bet's system from ogletree and i like connolly. Our o line will be much much better a healthy solder a 2nd year hernandez(they both were already pretty good in the second half) halipo all year with a solid backup in pulley, zeitler maybe best guard in all of football and remmers will be better than your young Rt was last year and wheeler may actually be better going into his 3rd year and 2nd as a starter,,that O line impormvement will give eli time to find tate, sheppard, engram, coleman, slayton and we have the best running back on the planet and quality depth in rod and wayne along with penney.

I don't see at all...at all why we can't go 8-8 or 9-7. We have gotten rid of the terrible locker room guys and even if ok in locker room me first or club house lawyer guys. I love the turnover in personnel, its been astounding actually and think we can be a team anywhere between 10-16 in the league.

I see 9-7

In comment 14437915 Del Shofner said:

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if you look at last season after the bye (8 games), we went 4-4 and three of the four losses were very close (3 points and two 1-pointers). If the second half of last season was a better indicator of this year than the first half of last season, which is not irrational given new coaches etc., being slightly over .500 this year at 9-7 doesn't seem so farfetched. Plus, I think the D backfield is going to be greatly improved.

The above, plus I think that team morale will higher in 2019 and higher still in 2020 (after a good 2019).
The Giants will surprise some over-confident teams
Yes, I'm an optimist. 9-11 wins in 2019 and 11-12 in 2020.

Likely? Not really.

I think 6 or 7 wins is probably more like it.

However, the schedule with the AFC East and some 4th place teams is not as hard as it was last season.

Eli wants to go out in a blaze of glory, a couple of lucky bounces, a big play here and there, and those 6 or 7 wins could turn into 9 and a playoff berth. If they'd had any kind of a defense they could have won 8 last season.

But they won't go very far if they are lucky enough to make it into the post-season.

But I am the eternally optimistic fan. I don't want for the season to be broken until it absolutely is.

Because they will win 9 games and I won't be surprised.

They’ve gotten rid of a lot of overpaid vets and this roster is now full of young guys out to prove themselves - especially on defense

I expect the Giants will “surprise” a lot of haters this year.

Of course, I say that every year.

8-8 win team.

They took a step back offensively, and we will be breaking in a bunch of rookies, and new players on defense.

If we get Remmers, I will feel better about the offensive output.

but division games will be huge for us. We need to go at least 3 and 3 in the division.

Any team can do that but to win or lose 12 or more takes a special season.

Sure. But a number of players have to play up to their potential to do so. Whether they will or not is not knowable. However, since you’re question was do they have a surprise 9-7. Absolutely.

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rebuilt secondary, D. Lawrence will improve run D, need Golden, Carter, X-Man to amp the pass rush. I think Bettcher will have more tools to run his game. Offense will have improved O-line, Saquan, Tate, Engram, and I just have a feeling Eli will have a good valedictory season.

I think the 2019 season will look alot like 2004.

Giants get off to a hot start with Eli and a weak schedule - they fall apart half way through - Daniel Jones mops up, doesn't win games, but gives the franchise hope for the future.

Eli won them 9 games last year...and they were terrible.

this year they will not lose those games and likely find at least 1 more.

10-6

Why not?

In comment 14437895 Bold Ruler said:

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So many new pieces on defense. Hard to even know how that side of the ball is going to come together. If they are as good as we hope (better) I'd say 9-7 is possible.

I agree it depends on the D.

The Giants did have a lot of turnover and 10 draft picks, most of whom will make the active roster and therefore our roster will be fairly young. Young means learning curve. Learning curve often means some tough early losses, at least.

I think Dallas is still a 10-6, division champ kind of team
The Eagles, assuming Wentz is healthy for 16, is equal to Dallas.
The Redskins defense looks good and the OL is among the league's best which will make Haskins life easier.

I figure the Giants will be 6-10 to 10-6 depending upon health, luck, Eli and such. So many factors but why not 9-7 or better? I say HELL YES!

7-9 at best.

I think Eli is way too slow and old. Moving the football wont be an issue but still failing to score will be.

My confidence in defense doesn't really say a whole lot either.

I did predict the 1-7 start last year. So, I hope that I am wrong. I don't think were living in an era where "the Giants could be surprisingly good" anymore. Bad football continues. Pat Shurmur is a fucking idiot too.

6-10 with Jones maybe playing the last 3 games?

The jury is still out on Shurmur as a head coach. That’s what this year is all about.

the question as if it is a straight question of can this team be 9-7 without considering any other aspects that may come into play here.

1) Some team always surprises and turns things around quickly, even if just for 1 season (see 2016 Giants).
2) The Giants as a whole, right now, are deeper than they were last year and are younger and faster.
3) The Giants have a better oline now (and can be even better if we get a vet RT) and an all world RB behind them.
4) Expectations are low so this team can come into the season under the radar.
5) We have no idea how the injury bug might change other teams (ours as well, yes, but injuries to other teams can open the door to wins)
6) I get am getting a 1997 feel with this team.
7) The Skins are have issues, Dallas is about to pay big bucks to an overrated QB and are a suspension heavy team on defense and Philadelphia is counting on Wentz to stay healthy, doesn't have Foles there anymore and I think is counting on areas (Oline and Dline) that may be vulnerable especially if an injury occurs there.
8) The schedule on paper is not as bad as we have seen in the past.
9) I think the Eli last ride might not be the ugly season some are counting on.
10) Too many people think OBJ loss will cripple the team and I think now it makes defenses unsure of who the main target is and over confident on stacking against Barkley.

I think 9-7 is very doable and I will go out on a limb and say we will be no worse than 8-8 this season!

Outside of the quarterback pick (I think Haskin's decision making is so much better than Jones', but what do I know), which is unlikely to affect play this year, the next four picks, plus Conway look like really smart picks to me. They got stronger on the defensive line, much stronger at cornerback and safety (great mix of veterans and youth), and have at least a possibility for improvement at linebacker. Lorenzo Carter can set the edge, drop into coverage, or rush the passer, what's not to like? Golden could be drop off on the other side, or could be welcome rebirth, either way, he is not a drop off from what Olivier Vernon delivered last year. So defense should be much better.

Signing Rod Smith is a really good move - to make up for the really bad veteran rb signing last year. The Offensive line is much further along this year than it was last year at this time - although it still can't be considered a strength and depth is a big issue, it is better. Losing ODB is a big loss in talent, but Eli was trying to force too much to him - it may be addition by subtraction (the Shockey effect). Often overlooked, but the system was new to Eli last year. He now has a year in the system. The offense should be subtly better at a minimum.

Too much is made of how they did after the break last year, given that a few of those games were against quarterbacks that were, in technical terms, shitty. However, the schedule this year is not, on paper, as difficult. If they get a few wins early, confidence will be better and there is no substitute for confidence. As Tom Coughlin would say: confident enough to perform, humble enough to prepare. The schedule is better

Injuries could be a concern. Remember when Michael Strahan had the Lis Franc his first year? I think he learned he had to wear shoes with more support - not as comfortable, but a hell of a lot better than injury. Dexter Lawrence should take heed. Wear steel shank cleats. Protect your feet. He could be really good.

I hope it is not just echo chamber, BBI optimism.

Eric - did I miss it the thread somewhere? What do you think?

happen that way.

Yes, actually - I could see it, but it would take a lot of things breaking right.

2020 is the realistic target for this team, in my opinion.

too many glaring holes were not addressed in this draft. DG needed to rebuild OL/DL to compete this year. He did not do that. When you are losing the battle at LOS everything else is window dressing. This is a 4-6 win team looking toward improving in 2020.

And this is directed to the people who know me as such, but if you really listen to my take before each and every season there’s truth in my posts and points. Last year I was hopeful that the so called offensive star power would carry the day and the giants “could” have a fun year. But we were all rightfully concerned with the D and OL. I figured if things broke right last year the team could sneak out 7-8-9 wins but things needed to break the right way.

In 2017 I was preaching that the giants defense would need to carry the team early (cautiously expected this) and that the broken offense would hopefully find its way by mid season thanks to the Engram/Ellison addition. But I was leery. I never once proclaimed that team was a lock for anything. I’m hopeful but not dumb. Turned out my caution was well founded. It took me 2 hours into the first game in 2017 to know we were dead team walking. I knew the D would quit and it did.

This year I am all but convinced this team will play well or at least much better than 2018. The O will be above average from the jump and the team in general will be better prepared thx to continuity and an easier schedule.

So yes, I do think this team plays well this season. I’d bet on it.

In comment 14438067 averagejoe said:

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too many glaring holes were not addressed in this draft. DG needed to rebuild OL/DL to compete this year. He did not do that. When you are losing the battle at LOS everything else is window dressing. This is a 4-6 win team looking toward improving in 2020.

He traded for 1 of the best guards in the league and added a monster DT to pair with Tomlinson/Hill ... they might help

I want to see who is playing Right Tackle. I want to see how Golden and Carter look at setting the edge and rushing the passer.

those are my biggest concerns. Until then I think we are a 500 team at best.

runs for over 1500 and has over 800 receiving yards. That will keep the defense off the field.

We will be playing a lot of weak teams. So, yes, I think it's conceivable.

We got fucked last year by the schedule makers. Hardest first 7 weeks in NFL last year. If the team stays healthy, we sign Remmers and he returns to form at RT, I don't see why we can't win 9 football games. I think Eli is capable of giving you average QB play with a good line, which this should be if Remmers does return to form and if he doesn't its probably league average. The biggest struggle is going to be how the defense performs out the gate with all the youth.

Win the opener in Dallas and you have my attention. Doesn't matter if it's a 13-10 nail-biter or Eli throws 7 interceptions in the process but if they find a way to win, then OK.

If it's something in conformity with the last two, hard, lump of excrement, season road openers at Dallas, fucking forget it. Going to be a very long year.

Then they come on solid in the 2nd half. 2020 make the playoffs.

in this thread. Both Cowboys and Eagles are top 12 for projected win totals. Unfortunately, I think if Travis Frederick returns to form the Cowboys are legit superbowl contenders. That offense two years ago, with the defense last year is extremely formidable.

In comment 14438094 Route 9 said:

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Win the opener in Dallas and you have my attention. Doesn't matter if it's a 13-10 nail-biter or Eli throws 7 interceptions in the process but if they find a way to win, then OK. If it's something in conformity with the last two, hard, lump of excrement, season road openers at Dallas, fucking forget it. Going to be a very long year.

If Eli throws 7 picks in the opener in a win we'd still have people here saying he should start.

In comment 14437971 Go Terps said:

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Not sure why this is a sound position -- Shurmur took a mediocre QB (Chase Keenan, who has not been able to play well afterwards), an UDFA WR (Theilin) and a 5th rd draft pick (Diggs) and turned all 3 into stars with a RB (Cook 2nd Rd Rookie) who was IRed early in the season and RB Latvius Murray - and a patched together Oline in Minnesota to the playoffs

Now he has Eli Manning -- who is light years better than Keenan - two solid receivers (Shep and Tate) - a solid receiving TE (Engram), and improving WR in Corey Coleman - a lights out RB (Barkley) and 3 solid starters on Oline - and 1 midlin center and possibly his dude Remmers back at RT from his Minn playoff year

He has a really good D Coordinator who has a young fast group - with some budding and potential stars - much deep than last year and he plays an aggressive style

Shurmur kept them playing last year and they showed upswing over the course of a season -- they got rid of show boat Beckham, wounded warrior Vernon, box safety Collins and presumably got more team oriented and faster with their 10 draft picks and Peppers - who is an upgrade over Collins -- the starting backfield may now be a strength - they have a run stopping mammoth for the middle of the field solving their two major defensive problems from last year

I think maybe a little perspective is in order

BUT in todays NFL with such a high turnover rate, the lack of any sembelence of practice and training camp will hurt us. Practices are dummied down now and training camp is a joke, hard for a team to gel and get ready especially with so many new faces

I could see a contingent on BBI rooting against the Giants so that they don't entertain the thought of extending Eli.

In comment 14437971 Go Terps said:

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Great! Terps has a new dog to kick.

apparent to the average fan. I think he unfairly gets skewered here. Even the one time he got it right, when to go for 2 people killed him because the offense couldn't execute. One time Eli missed a wide open guy in front of him and the other was when we were down 2 td's and scored and went for 2. The analytics are pretty clear on that second one.

Extremely bad and I don't think something like that is going to get better. Guy has tons of experience as a HC at this point.

with one year of experience or less going into this season.

Darnold
Rosen
Allen
Murray
Haskins twice

That doesn't happen very often. Win those games and not much more is needed for a respectable looking season.

Lose those games and the Jones' succession is accelerated.

If we get better Oline play and average defensive play

In comment 14438038 YorkAveGiant said:

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Eli won them 9 games last year...and they were terrible. this year they will not lose those games and likely find at least 1 more. 10-6

Eli won them 9 games last year?