Look, the Giants are almost as much to blame for OBJ's conduct as OBJ.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
Question: "How would Collins know what the Giants thought of OBJ Â
Look, the Giants are almost as much to blame for OBJ's conduct as OBJ.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
Plenty of millenials who don't act like that. And the Giants have brought players in before who were not exactly saints. But they kept it behind closed doors. Everything with Odell is front and center, that i am sure they did not like. Agreed on mishandling him.
The biggest problem with Beckham was injuries - he missed 16 Â
was never going to be happy anywhere... we all know people like him, the ones who think it is better on the otherside.
Collins is just butt hurt because the Giants did not want to pay Top dollar for an oft-injured in the box safety, who gets burnt in coverage. The only team that would pay him is also one of the worst runned teams in the league.
So we'll continue to get stories like this from OBJ and Collins because now that they are part of other organization, they will see how good they had it with the Giants...
RE: I swear we've had more Odell threads since he was Â
traded THAN before he was traded. He's gone. It's over. Time to move on.
So don't open the thread if you're not interested.
I get that thought. But JFC, do we need a new thread on these guys every damn day? There was a thread last week about Odell at some MET gala. Who cares? He's no longer a Giant. Let's just move on with our lives.
Look, the Giants are almost as much to blame for OBJ's conduct as OBJ.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
Plenty of millenials who don't act like that. And the Giants have brought players in before who were not exactly saints. But they kept it behind closed doors. Everything with Odell is front and center, that i am sure they did not like. Agreed on mishandling him.
I'm going to make a leap here and suggest the Giants aren't they most progressive team in the league dealing with the changing times...And that is a problem with situations like OBJ.
RE: RE: RE: I swear we've had more Odell threads since he was Â
traded THAN before he was traded. He's gone. It's over. Time to move on.
So don't open the thread if you're not interested.
I get that thought. But JFC, do we need a new thread on these guys every damn day? There was a thread last week about Odell at some MET gala. Who cares? He's no longer a Giant. Let's just move on with our lives.
It's a little bit kinda fun to watch the trainwreck unfold though...almost provides some justification for releasing these guys to those of us who were on the fence.
Besides, if the current team is going to behave itself, we need to look elsewhere for some drama during the slow times!
to me like a few ex-Giants are having butt-hurt issues about being ex-Giants.
And perhaps worth noting that Collins's wonderlic score of 17, which isn't awful among DBs but is still well below average of the general population, isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Not sure his opinion or observation is valid or worth a darn.
to me like a few ex-Giants are having butt-hurt issues about being ex-Giants.
And perhaps worth noting that Collins's wonderlic score of 17, which isn't awful among DBs but is still well below average of the general population, isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Not sure his opinion or observation is valid or worth a darn.
Probably worth looking at what the wonderlic test is before making a comment like this.
it cant be easy when drafting a player between the ages of 20-25 how he will handle the media ... and will it become an issue over the duration of a rookie deal.. regardless of the regime .. or sport even. For the Giants - the gauntlet of NY media has clearly become a significant factor, or one that is valued heavier than the past decade or so.
I dont envy the challenge. It's probably an incredibly common theme to pass on guys w minor red personality flags and incredibly common to roll the dice even tho you know some of those identified issues may arise. Where's the balance? When do you take the risk? When do you potentially pass on someone you think has the assets to be a star on the field but maybe a nightmare off?
When DG got here we knew one of his immediate missions was Culture. As time ticks on it becomes more evident what they were dealing w in house. Snacks, LC, OBJ and Apple are the first to mind but there were likely (many?) others.
what is pretty wild is that the class from last year barely speaks. I mean I follow most of them on social media I dont think Carter or Hernandez even tweet. The Lauletta issue is obviously well documented but aside from that is there anything from an interview or anything that '18 class has made us cringe about? Time will tell about '19 - sounds like Baker may have had a flag about how he handled not playing the bowl game but that seems like fluff
The Giants way - blah blah - call it whatever you want but the org feels like its moving in the right direction.
To me it becomes more obvious every single day
It's just a continued symptom of the same illness. Â
I actually like reading about OBJ and LC post Giants. Anyone who doesn't care doesn't have to open the thread.
It's no surprise many don't want to read about it. They turned a blind eye and pretended these losers were great players while they were here.
And now Beckham says he's going to turn the Browns into the Patriots. That's funny when he doesn't have the first clue about winning in the NFL.
The Patriots have WRs who actually show up in the playoffs ... so glad this clown is in a different uniform. Great talent, never “liked” rooting for him. Enjoy Ohio.
RE: It's just a continued symptom of the same illness. Â
"I hate this guy, but I'm going to pop up in every conversation of him and be loud about it".
Is that anything like popping up in threads with TRAID BECKUM!!! posts?
Well, one is making fun of the ridiculousness of the other.
And when the situation is such that members of this site have taken to patrolling instagram like hall monitors and police informants for things to bitch about, ridiculousness is certainly the word for it.
pls elaborate with facts instead of emotions. let me guess...
similar to many players his 1 playoff game? he shat the bed?
and his injuries... 1 season of which was a sh$tty slant pass from the QB... which then our offense couldnt get a first down after that... and Geno Smith became the QB and the culture of the giants really started to show through? when he wasnt even playing.
what does wrong mean? i would really love to know...
Losing player? they won a division with him leading them to it, along with collins. won in college....
im happy to have the roster the giants have now... but pretty tired of reading nonsense
the same poster said he sucked in his 1 playoff and didnt make any meaningful regular season plays... except that season they won the division... he took a 5 yard slant to the house for the win... solid analysis... as always
Is really enjoying stirring the pot. I'd probably do the same in his shoes.
Why? He got paid big time and will be viewed favorably in DC so long as he plays at least commiserate to his play in NY. It's not like NY crapped on him or made him out to be a part of the problem as it appears is the case with OBJ.
RE: what is being dead wrong about beckham mean? Â
pls elaborate with facts instead of emotions. let me guess...
similar to many players his 1 playoff game? he shat the bed?
and his injuries... 1 season of which was a sh$tty slant pass from the QB... which then our offense couldnt get a first down after that... and Geno Smith became the QB and the culture of the giants really started to show through? when he wasnt even playing.
what does wrong mean? i would really love to know...
Losing player? they won a division with him leading them to it, along with collins. won in college....
im happy to have the roster the giants have now... but pretty tired of reading nonsense
the same poster said he sucked in his 1 playoff and didnt make any meaningful regular season plays... except that season they won the division... he took a 5 yard slant to the house for the win... solid analysis... as always
It's not their talent, it's the constant diarrhea of the mouth. Just shut up... especially since you two guys keep telling everyone how happy you are with your new teams.
I think it is becoming clearer by the day some of these guys were not ideal team players... in fact, they were far from it. I can't imagine Parcells putting up with this shit.
"I hate this guy, but I'm going to pop up in every conversation of him and be loud about it".
Is that anything like popping up in threads with TRAID BECKUM!!! posts?
Well, one is making fun of the ridiculousness of the other.
And when the situation is such that members of this site have taken to patrolling instagram like hall monitors and police informants for things to bitch about, ridiculousness is certainly the word for it.
I've never been on Instagram in my life. Didn't need to be to see what Beckham was.
And in the end, Beckham was indeed TRAIDED because he was an asshole.
Look, the Giants are almost as much to blame for OBJ's conduct as OBJ.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
Not only 'Jints Central': it began to go off the rails when TC closed his eyes to Odell's on-field antics with Norman (doesn't matter who initiated) and pretended in the post-game that he hadn't seen it. It set a tone that did not reverse.
Still do to an extent. I know we like to lump individuals in with the failures of people around them. But Collins played hard and played through injury, even as others around him quit and became malcontents. It was always full effort from him, even if he did have flaws as a player. I never got the sense the Collins was part of the problem.
But he does seem bitter since being let go. Who knows how we'd react in that situation, but I'd think you'd want to wait to let your play on the field for a new team speak first. Then maybe talk a bit
Amen to that OBJ gave us some thrills to say the least .
That Monday night ridiculous catch will never be forgotten
I think in a way it hurt him that everyone wanted his
attention and at his age he got into the Hollywood gutter
and with the video in the Hotel was not a good look .
I hope he keeps his head on straight and continues his greatness .
Look, the Giants are almost as much to blame for OBJ's conduct as OBJ.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
Not only 'Jints Central': it began to go off the rails when TC closed his eyes to Odell's on-field antics with Norman (doesn't matter who initiated) and pretended in the post-game that he hadn't seen it. It set a tone that did not reverse.
That's right. Coughlin was absolutely an enabler.
RE: RE: what is being dead wrong about beckham mean? Â
pls elaborate with facts instead of emotions. let me guess...
similar to many players his 1 playoff game? he shat the bed?
and his injuries... 1 season of which was a sh$tty slant pass from the QB... which then our offense couldnt get a first down after that... and Geno Smith became the QB and the culture of the giants really started to show through? when he wasnt even playing.
what does wrong mean? i would really love to know...
Losing player? they won a division with him leading them to it, along with collins. won in college....
im happy to have the roster the giants have now... but pretty tired of reading nonsense
the same poster said he sucked in his 1 playoff and didnt make any meaningful regular season plays... except that season they won the division... he took a 5 yard slant to the house for the win... solid analysis... as always
It's not their talent, it's the constant diarrhea of the mouth. Just shut up... especially since you two guys keep telling everyone how happy you are with your new teams.
I think it is becoming clearer by the day some of these guys were not ideal team players... in fact, they were far from it. I can't imagine Parcells putting up with this shit.
then why did most of the feedback from most of the players indicate that people liked them? so other players like guys who are not team players? collins was named captain of the team.
what is more toxic- the eli/mara/mcadoo/geno situation... or anything else. the true colors of the dysfunction of the giants organization were shown during that entire episode. the build up and the execution of it, and what followed. Odell Beckham was not near the team during that... and landon collins had nothing to do with that.
and parcells put up with a criminal and had no social media to deal with--- but criminality is OK because the whole team was good so the culture was good so it was all cool.
In the NFL. A team must act as one unit, which isn't easily accomplished and can be quite delicate. A player may make questionable decisions off of the field, but with the team the poster knows his place. I think one of the toughest things to deal with for athletes with lots of money is knowing your place and just doing your job for the better of the team. The more popular the more difficult it may become. The chemistry with these giants teams have been off. New people were brought in to fix it and they made decisions to move on from certain players and not for just any reason.
RE: RE: RE: what is being dead wrong about beckham mean? Â
pls elaborate with facts instead of emotions. let me guess...
similar to many players his 1 playoff game? he shat the bed?
and his injuries... 1 season of which was a sh$tty slant pass from the QB... which then our offense couldnt get a first down after that... and Geno Smith became the QB and the culture of the giants really started to show through? when he wasnt even playing.
what does wrong mean? i would really love to know...
Losing player? they won a division with him leading them to it, along with collins. won in college....
im happy to have the roster the giants have now... but pretty tired of reading nonsense
the same poster said he sucked in his 1 playoff and didnt make any meaningful regular season plays... except that season they won the division... he took a 5 yard slant to the house for the win... solid analysis... as always
It's not their talent, it's the constant diarrhea of the mouth. Just shut up... especially since you two guys keep telling everyone how happy you are with your new teams.
I think it is becoming clearer by the day some of these guys were not ideal team players... in fact, they were far from it. I can't imagine Parcells putting up with this shit.
then why did most of the feedback from most of the players indicate that people liked them? so other players like guys who are not team players? collins was named captain of the team.
what is more toxic- the eli/mara/mcadoo/geno situation... or anything else. the true colors of the dysfunction of the giants organization were shown during that entire episode. the build up and the execution of it, and what followed. Odell Beckham was not near the team during that... and landon collins had nothing to do with that.
and parcells put up with a criminal and had no social media to deal with--- but criminality is OK because the whole team was good so the culture was good so it was all cool.
Of course they were well liked. The locker room was filled with losing players.
We've since heard though that Eli is happy he's gone.
Look, the Giants are almost as much to blame for OBJ's conduct as OBJ.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
I agree that Beckham doesn't fit the 'Giant Way' now with Gettleman in the FO, but I think he was the epitome of it during the waning days of the Reese era.
BW, I mean this sincerely and not just you but others have agreed with you; how were the Giants or any NFL team for that matter supposed to 'handle' OBJ or any other player in that mold( Antonio Brown, Bell, hell refer to Shockey or terrell owens). What are teams supposed to do(other than trade them)? I am nt defending the Giants, just honestly wondering?
RE: RE: RE: what is being dead wrong about beckham mean? Â
then why did most of the feedback from most of the players indicate that people liked them? so other players like guys who are not team players? collins was named captain of the team.
what is more toxic- the eli/mara/mcadoo/geno situation... or anything else. the true colors of the dysfunction of the giants organization were shown during that entire episode. the build up and the execution of it, and what followed. Odell Beckham was not near the team during that... and landon collins had nothing to do with that.
and parcells put up with a criminal and had no social media to deal with--- but criminality is OK because the whole team was good so the culture was good so it was all cool.
Hitdog - JMO but the part is bolded is mostly unrelated. The same players mostly said they liked McAdoo also. Jim Fassell's players liked him and Strahan practically refused to play for Coughlin. That didn't make Strahan less of a leader, or less of a team player, though at times he wasn't the greatest of either - it just made him a bad evaluator of what it takes to be a good head coach. People can be well liked and not great at something or vice versa.
On the field Beckham was as good as any individual player I can recall on the Giants - including Strahan. I trust Coughlin and all the others at their word that he was also a good teammate, a hard worker, a great practicer, and a tough/competitive player who wanted to win. Does any of that exclude the possibility that Beckham didn't realize some of his behavior wasn't helpful in the pursuit of winning? The penalties, the tantrums on the sidelines, the boat trip, not participating in some aspects of the offseason, etc.? And obviously the context of these issues is less severe way than if there was anything criminal. There is a very big difference between having a headache like Shockey and a literal button man like Aaron Hernandez.
I don't blame OBJ or Collins for the culture in the lockerroom - for that I blame Reese and Mara first, Mcadoo second. Some of the players became collateral damage to the poor decisions by the 3 I mentioned and the losing that came with it. But all that said the players themselves were not entirely blameless. OBJ got the biggest nonQB contract in franchise history. Collins was a captain on defense that probably lost close to 10 games the past 2 years on the last possession. Everyone has moved on, it's probably best to just say "things didn't work out and everyone shares some piece of that blame" vs. the players themselves who are no longer here pointing fingers. What does it matter to them and their new teams?
RE: RE: RE: RE: what is being dead wrong about beckham mean? Â
Jim Fassell's players liked him and Strahan practically refused to play for Coughlin.
Um, Strahan hated Fassel. Don't you remember Strahan ripping Fassel while Fassel was away from the team to attend his mother's funeral?
He didn't like Coughlin in the beginning either, but not out of loyalty to Fassel.
Where did I say Strahan disliked Coughlin out of loyalty to Fassel? I specifically mentioned that Strahan wasn't always a good leader or good team player. Everyone knew Strahan was completely against Coughlin because of his reputation and his demanding style, with nothing to do with anything else and he's said so publicly about 10,000 times.
My memory of Fassel is that the majority of players and organization liked him and he was considered a players coach - which is why I said "Jim Fassel's players liked him". Do you remember it differently?
IMO, the Giants players never understood what it took to win. Much of that had to do with management/coaching, but being a champion is not about being "liked". It's about winning.
The weird thing... as some have already alluded to... is that Tom Coughlin let Beckham get away with murder. The Giants kowtowed to him for years.
As others have also said, this group of Giants acted like they had already won something. They didn't even win a playoff game. They were a bunch of players on one of the worst teams in the NFL for the past six years. They should shut the blank up. They haven't earned it.
because they are gone... and pretend they rid the place.
im sorry that is a sh$t narrative. when the only people that helped us win during the one good year... were those players.
and can someone answer me has there been any worse thing for the culture of a team, the players, and franchise.... than the geno/eli ordeal... which had zero to do with any people still on the giants except eli and mara?
because they are gone... and pretend they rid the place.
im sorry that is a sh$t narrative. when the only people that helped us win during the one good year... were those players.
and can someone answer me has there been any worse thing for the culture of a team, the players, and franchise.... than the geno/eli ordeal... which had zero to do with any people still on the giants except eli and mara?
and ill agree the boat trip and making it a public display... is up there... but they dont equate for the structural issue that existed in the franchise
The franchise hasn't recovered from the downfall Â
because they are gone... and pretend they rid the place.
im sorry that is a sh$t narrative. when the only people that helped us win during the one good year... were those players.
and can someone answer me has there been any worse thing for the culture of a team, the players, and franchise.... than the geno/eli ordeal... which had zero to do with any people still on the giants except eli and mara?
It was all toxic. It wasn't working. I get the sense that you think there is simply self-justification going on here. But how many of us were worried that the Giants would overpay Collins - a player who seemed to be living off the reputation built off his 2016 season. And there were many who feared that Odell wasn't quite the same player after the injury. And like many other teammates - who are long since gone - this group yapped ceaselessly. Never had a group of players who accomplished so little thought so highly of themselves. There was an 11-5 season. But it was surrounded by 6-10, 6-10, 3-13, and 5-11. And sometimes they just quit. The stadium was half empty more times than ever. It was a shit product.
Were management and coaching to blame? Yes, they brought the players here and they didn't instill discipline. But two head coaches, countless assistant coaches, a GM and a personnel director have also been fired. Why is Ross so disliked? Because not only was his drafting abysmal, but he talked it wasn't (and is still talking like it wasn't).
Just a toxic mess. Probably the most unforgettable span of Giants football since pre-1981. And OBJ, Collins, probably a 100 or so players who came and went during that time period will all be lumped in with that mess. They will end up being an afterthought.
and it's a shame because players (if not personalities) like OB and Collins, as draft picks and homegrown talent, should've been here for the duration of great careers.
RE: Did Beckham do anything to make the Giants lose? Â
im just not someone who is going to pretend like a WR or safety was any more the reason than a front office or a QB controversy or 2 bad first round picks or the coach.
the whole thing was a total fking mess. but we have ongoing discussions about good riddance on the 2 players responsible for our 1 fluke season of winning... during said toxic mess... which maybe they contributed too, maybe they didnt, nobody here knows.
RE: When talented players thought to be core are traded Â
with tacit condonation from the team, ran recklessly with the narrative that Beckham was a cancer and a lockerroom distraction because of his antics and personality. I can't recall a single teammate echo that opinion. Rather, I've only heard teammates praise Beckham's work ethic in training, in practice, and his desire to compete on the field. He seemed beloved by his fellow teammates.
It seems to me that Landon Collins is merely standing up for his former teammate now that he is no longer being paid by the team he feels scapegoated Beckham.
RE: RE: Fixing the dearth of talent on the roster Â
is a helluva lot more important than fixing the culture Gettleman likes to prattle on about.
exactly
Sorry its both. I'm not piling on OBJ or Collins (I agree with Kyle that Collins is more immature than a bad guy) but for whatever reason the culture was fucked.
I think Terps is right that OBJ ruined TC, he was so desperate to win he let OBJ do his own thing and then lost control.
im just not someone who is going to pretend like a WR or safety was any more the reason than a front office or a QB controversy or 2 bad first round picks or the coach.
the whole thing was a total fking mess. but we have ongoing discussions about good riddance on the 2 players responsible for our 1 fluke season of winning... during said toxic mess... which maybe they contributed too, maybe they didnt, nobody here knows.
So they're solely responsible for our "1 good season" but you're not sure what they may have contributed to all of the garbage around that?
Must be nice to be Beckham and Collins. Talk about a win-win situation!
Why doesn’t the leader of a football team - the Quarterback - Â
im just not someone who is going to pretend like a WR or safety was any more the reason than a front office or a QB controversy or 2 bad first round picks or the coach.
the whole thing was a total fking mess. but we have ongoing discussions about good riddance on the 2 players responsible for our 1 fluke season of winning... during said toxic mess... which maybe they contributed too, maybe they didnt, nobody here knows.
So they're solely responsible for our "1 good season" but you're not sure what they may have contributed to all of the garbage around that?
Must be nice to be Beckham and Collins. Talk about a win-win situation!
the best offensive and best defensive player the year we were decent. those are facts
everything else we dont know... were they toxic? maybe... was the whole franchise toxic... yes... im not going to say sh$t if i dont know its accurate-
and watching talented people in my age group misbehave, and our peers would just laugh it off. Especially on sports teams I was part of it. Young people tend to look past bad behavior as not being important, so long as the talent is on their side. People who are more mature and in positions of leadership and decision making are less likely to endure it for long, especially if there's a big contract involved, and if there's a feeling the person could be vulnerable to making bad decisions.
My take is OB was probably very difficult for the coaches and team staff to deal with, that's gotten out in print as well, as well as the sentiment he'd worn out his welcome with these people. Players aren't the only ones going to work on a daily basis.
I don't doubt NYG has been using the media to help support their narrative. But, I think my perspective is also true.
im just not someone who is going to pretend like a WR or safety was any more the reason than a front office or a QB controversy or 2 bad first round picks or the coach.
the whole thing was a total fking mess. but we have ongoing discussions about good riddance on the 2 players responsible for our 1 fluke season of winning... during said toxic mess... which maybe they contributed too, maybe they didnt, nobody here knows.
I don't think there is anyone here who are blaming it on just two players. If you've been on this site a long time - and I know you have - the similar posts have long been made against owners, management, coaches, the quarterback, and many of the players.
The "house cleaning" didn't mainly consist of these two players.
Just wait and compare who is on the roster on September 2019 with who was on it two years ago. Hardly anyone will be left.
was astounded at the trade rumors. I think he loved it here and viewed himself as a Giant for life, another legend. I mean, many of us thought the same (I know I did). So his feelings were definitely hurt by the trade talk.
I think his stupidity with the media was his attempt at leadership. It was a poor attempt at letting fans and mgmt know that Apple was a cancer. Again, I think this was not trying to be a firebrand.
Then when the Giants didn't even tender him an offer, that was the uppercut that likely caused a major rift between him and the Giants.
I can see his side of it, he loved it here and got hit with the business end of the stick.
His performance on the field was stellar as was his potential. Think his independent wild side , stuff they had seen before, with LT and Plaxico eroded some of that optimism. He is a free spirit who wants yo do his thing off the field, and on it, in demonstrations etc. No team really wants that especially in NYC. Both sides got there moneys worth in the early years. Wish him well.
RE: Why doesn’t the leader of a football team - the Quarterback - Â
Most likely. And there is no guarantee that Gettleman, Pettit, and Shurmur are the right people to turn this around. There is no guarantee they picked the right QB to replace Eli.
We have no idea.
All I know is the old group was a mess. It wasn't working.
Like gidiefor, I am actually excited about the upcoming season for the first time in a couple of years.
you will be hearing from OBJ soon how much a problem Eli Manning was, and how much better his new QB is. Instead of taking the high road and not commenting, he won't be able to do so.
Meanwhile, Eli has two Super Bowl MVP awards. Beckham had a nice boat trip.
is a helluva lot more important than fixing the culture Gettleman likes to prattle on about.
exactly
Sorry its both. I'm not piling on OBJ or Collins (I agree with Kyle that Collins is more immature than a bad guy) but for whatever reason the culture was fucked.
I think Terps is right that OBJ ruined TC, he was so desperate to win he let OBJ do his own thing and then lost control.
Look, the Giants are almost as much to blame for OBJ's conduct as OBJ.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
I agree that Beckham doesn't fit the 'Giant Way' now with Gettleman in the FO, but I think he was the epitome of it during the waning days of the Reese era.
BW, I mean this sincerely and not just you but others have agreed with you; how were the Giants or any NFL team for that matter supposed to 'handle' OBJ or any other player in that mold( Antonio Brown, Bell, hell refer to Shockey or terrell owens). What are teams supposed to do(other than trade them)? I am nt defending the Giants, just honestly wondering?
The first problem was Eli. He's the QB of the team and a 2X SB winner. That gives him enormous clout, but Eli is too soft spoken and would rather lead by example. That's fine to a degree, but a strong personality like OBJ obviously sees no threat there. If Eli was more of an alpha male who spoke up and took command, I tend to think that would have gone a long way towards getting OBJ in line.
By being such a prodigious talent, and achieving instant success, OBJ obviously felt like he was the King of NY, and the de facto King of the Team. Let's be honest - he became the face of the team. The media and fans were fawning all over him...
Secondly, Coughlin obviously decided it was more important to win - his job security was becoming an issue - and he was willing to tolerate OBJ's behavior for his production. So Coughlin basically tossed aside some of his core principles; and let OBJ have his own rules...
As for the rest of the organization, if I had to guess based on their milquetoast personalities, Mara, Reese, Tisch, et al were either keeping their distance with OBJ and wearing big sized kid gloves when they may have had to deal with him directly. I would imagine from a business perspective, they loved OBJ keeping the Giants relevant since he was must-see-tv.
Then in comes Shurmur and Gettleman. Who takes Shurmur seriously? What success had he had as an HC to get OBJ's attention? And why would OBJ be concerned about Gettleman who was out there for the early part of his tenure waxing poetic about OBJ? He probably saw an old man who loved to hog the camera and say good things about him.
In hindsight, Jints Central laid the groundwork for OBJ to basically do whatever the f-ck he wanted.
RE: RE: Fixing the dearth of talent on the roster Â
you will be hearing from OBJ soon how much a problem Eli Manning was, and how much better his new QB is. Instead of taking the high road and not commenting, he won't be able to do so.
Meanwhile, Eli has two Super Bowl MVP awards. Beckham had a nice boat trip.
ok, lets just not count a complement to Mayfield as an insult of Eli.
That seems to happen a lot around here.
RE: RE: RE: Fixing the dearth of talent on the roster Â
is a helluva lot more important than fixing the culture Gettleman likes to prattle on about.
exactly
No self respecting Net fan shits on the idea of "culture"!!!
thats fair! and why i feel ok opining on the subject--- because of that. starts in management and coaching and staff... show me that happening and we wont be talking about issues with any players.
In comment 14438817 bw in dc said:
Quote:
By being such a prodigious talent, and achieving instant success, OBJ obviously felt like he was the King of NY, and the de facto King of the Team. Let's be honest - he became the face of the team. The media and fans were fawning all over him...
Barkley made a huge splash his rookie year - and he doesn't act like this at all. Fans/media are fawning over him too.
the reason that Ereck Flowers couldn't block, Rueben Randle couldn't run a route, and Marc Ross and Jerry Reese couldn't draft any contributors after the third round was because of Odell's "millennial" attitude.
They pulled the same shit 50 years ago when they traded Tarkenton back to the Vikings and traded Fred Dryer- he was a cancer, he wasn't a team guy, he was a complainer, he wasn't a good fit blah, blah, blah.
This team's tactics will never change so long as a Mara is in charge.
That's not what I am predicting. I'm predicting he won't leave Eli out of the comparison. We'll see. But I think he's hurt and he's going to continue to lash out.
I soured on Collins when it was clear he couldn't stop talking to the media.
The injury concerns with OBJ always made me nervous even before his little Wayne interview.
I'm curious to see how many games OBJ will actually play this upcoming season and if he can stay healthy.
Hope OBJ has a good career, and I would wish the best for Collins if he didn't play for the Redskins.
But as my alcoholic uncle Greg told me after a disappointing Giants season years ago...after a long pause..."If they sucked with the old players, they might be better with new players."
is a helluva lot more important than fixing the culture Gettleman likes to prattle on about.
exactly
No self respecting Net fan shits on the idea of "culture"!!!
thats fair! and why i feel ok opining on the subject--- because of that. starts in management and coaching and staff... show me that happening and we wont be talking about issues with any players.
Ross and Reese and Mcadoo got fired - NOBODY absolves them of their part in this - which is more significant than anyone else. Fans are reacting to Beckham and Collins because of what they said - there is no greater agenda to bash those guys or put down what they did here.
To continue the Nets analogy, if Brook Lopez (or Thad Young or Bojan) had come out and taken shots in the direction of Sean Marks for not wanting to keep him and said something like "the Nets blamed me for not being a better defensive team" Net fans would probably similarly criticize him for having sour grapes despite knowing he was 1 of the better players over that era, that helped them get to some postseasons, and it was ownership/previous management to blame not him.
Marks, like Gettleman, came in years 1 & 2 and dealt off some veterans who were good players, who publicly said they wanted to stay, because he needed assets (cap room, draft picks) to help his rebuild. The difference here is that OBJ and Collins seem to want to continue to publicly argue the way they were treated upon exiting here.
or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
We can go on and on about Beckham and Collins and others Â
until we're blue on the face. But it's amazing how underrated the handling of Eli and the Eli situation flies under the radar with some. That has been just as much of a problem with this franchise as anything or anyone else these past few years. 2020 can't get here soon enough.
or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
The specific accusation (NYG thought "Beckham was always a problem") flies in the face of logic since they gave him almost $100m like 9 months ago. At minimum it's a more complicated discussion than "the giants blame OBJ". So I don't think it's unreasonable for people to feel like the commenter is going out of his way to stir things up for his former employer, especially when he's also acknowledged multiple times how well they treated him.
That's not what I am predicting. I'm predicting he won't leave Eli out of the comparison. We'll see. But I think he's hurt and he's going to continue to lash out.
ok fair enough.
That said, I dont think he really has said much. He reacted to Getts indirectly calling him a bad character guy. Thats it. I would be pissed at that too.
His more recent comments at the Met gala were pretty tame and he in no way said anything negative about the org in those comments.
The red sox do the same thing when they move on. Â
Make sure to trash the guy on the way out the door, because it's the player that rotten, not the franchise as a whole.
Anything to brush aside the fact that the franchise was being botched on an annual basis.
And the Giants' attitude toward having to endure some public dragging over their years of failure confirms the rot. The Giants have enjoyed, for decades, the benefit of the doubt from the media (excepting a few media personalities like Gary Myers). People never piled on the Giants because they were the Giants. One of the 'stable' New York teams. Well, when you're bad for half a decade, fire a GM, fire two coaches, and endure 3-win seasons, eventually you're going to have to answer some hard questions. And their response has been a petulant, child stomping feet, us against the world mentality.
imo, dont care. Root for the colors. The operative word in the phrase "Winning Culture" is winning.
ObJ could be Saint Francis and he still was an asset on an impoverished roster of talent worth 3 picks and two decent FA signings next year.
LC is worth a 3rd and a mid to lower FA above his performance to value on the next contract.
sorry.
One relied on his legs and already missed 25% of the games in his first 6 years and the other has shoulder problems yet used his shoulder to tackle.
So their discounted value to performance when there were/are so many other needs in the years ahead was leaning the ship to starboard from 2019 onwards with little counter balancing performers at below market rates.
I could make the comment that Jints Central made the same business decision that BB made on Bruschi, Vrabel, Revis, Sherman, Wolfolk,, etc, etc, etc. and no one claimed BB has a problem with milennials.
Same data pattern.
Start with a conclusion you just need to assert and torture data into confessing it's the only way to think about it.
or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
The specific accusation (NYG thought "Beckham was always a problem") flies in the face of logic since they gave him almost $100m like 9 months ago. At minimum it's a more complicated discussion than "the giants blame OBJ". So I don't think it's unreasonable for people to feel like the commenter is going out of his way to stir things up for his former employer, especially when he's also acknowledged multiple times how well they treated him.
People keep putting microphones in these former players faces and they keep saying things. Some of it has to be filtered out.
And who knows what exactly a problem means. Before the extension they had the Norman incident, the kicking tee stuff, the dehydration issues, not working out with Eli, the boat trip, the playoff debacle, the pizza/coke video, etc. yet he's still a HOF caliber WR, so you make a decision if he's a part of your future.
Look, the Giants are almost as much to blame for OBJ's conduct as OBJ.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
Plenty of millenials who don't act like that. And the Giants have brought players in before who were not exactly saints. But they kept it behind closed doors. Everything with Odell is front and center, that i am sure they did not like. Agreed on mishandling him.
I'm going to make a leap here and suggest the Giants aren't they most progressive team in the league dealing with the changing times...And that is a problem with situations like OBJ.
Okay, I think Corey Ballantine is the latest of many players who would disagree with you on that one.
or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
Sometimes football teams have to make tough decisions. Forget off the field, Beckham seemed to be missing that burst that made him Beckham. Maybe the Giants thought so too and moved him for good value. Maybe he does well in Cleveland next year, but better to get rid of a player a year early than a year late.
Collins is just trying to endear himself to his new team - a team whose owner loathes John Mara with every fiber of his being. I wish we had traded Collins but it is what it is. His skill set just doesn't translate easily to today's NFL and definitely not for the money he wanted.
or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
Sometimes football teams have to make tough decisions. Forget off the field, Beckham seemed to be missing that burst that made him Beckham. Maybe the Giants thought so too and moved him for good value. Maybe he does well in Cleveland next year, but better to get rid of a player a year early than a year late.
Collins is just trying to endear himself to his new team - a team whose owner loathes John Mara with every fiber of his being. I wish we had traded Collins but it is what it is. His skill set just doesn't translate easily to today's NFL and definitely not for the money he wanted.
I have no issue with trading players. In my world everyone can be traded for the right value.
My problem is shitting on everyone who gets traded as "the problem" either in the locker room or on the field even despite stats.
it's a shitty thing for an organization to do to kick everyone on the way out of town. Seems like your trying to spin a narrative.
Snacks is a good example. When here he was the prototypical lunch pail guy, shows up every game ready to play, keeps his head down, hungry and humble.
then on his way out, the run D really wasn't that much different with or without him (which is a sketchy claim - look how DET improved with him) and he wasn't a leader in the locker room.
is correct at the multiple layers of failure that stacked up to enable OBJ.
One more thing though is that Ross and Reese's obsession over Athletes vs Football players, meant that too often, Coughlin who is not the most adaptable person in the world, was forced to coach up and deal with players who not only were not a fit schematically, but not a threat culturally for this team, franchise and Market.
TC owns a lot of blame for not putting his foot down and benching OBJ earlier in his career but we must not let the failures of the other Execs go under-reported.
or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
The same JPP who just broke his neck in a car accident?
I'm glad all of these guys are gone. And I won't miss Collins when the Giants have to cover Whitten/Ertz/Reed.
RE: Did they actually claim that our run D wasn't bad without Snacks Â
We straight up got bullied up front! Don't piss on my face and tell me it's raining, if that is true.
Tough to pin it directly on the Giants, it began with an ESPN tweet from what I remember. But the beat writers ran with it, and many times I feel like some beat writers are mouth pieces for the team. and it became a common theme.
Quote:
According to @ESPNStatsInfo the Giants allowed 5.19 yards per carry on 117 run plays when Damon Harrison was on the field. Allowed 2.75 on 69 runs without Harrison on the field... (Last year: 3.89 when he was on the field.). Why? Dunno. Point is: Don't assume this cripples NY
or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
The same JPP who just broke his neck in a car accident?
I'm glad all of these guys are gone. And I won't miss Collins when the Giants have to cover Whitten/Ertz/Reed.
So what happens when Saquon does the slightest thing you don't like.
Because until JPP did something you didn't like he hadn't done anything wrong and was a model citizen.
it's a slippery slope applying moral or behavioral standards to professional athletes IMO and not an exercise I participate in.
As someone said above root for laundry.
it's ok to not miss any of the guys who are not here, but denying the talent of some of them makes fans seem like jilted exes.
Although people I speak with question the direction the Giants are heading, no one questions them for cleaning house. I've heard for years how much of a mess - top to bottom - this organization was..
imo, dont care. Root for the colors. The operative word in the phrase "Winning Culture" is winning.
ObJ could be Saint Francis and he still was an asset on an impoverished roster of talent worth 3 picks and two decent FA signings next year.
LC is worth a 3rd and a mid to lower FA above his performance to value on the next contract.
sorry.
One relied on his legs and already missed 25% of the games in his first 6 years and the other has shoulder problems yet used his shoulder to tackle.
So their discounted value to performance when there were/are so many other needs in the years ahead was leaning the ship to starboard from 2019 onwards with little counter balancing performers at below market rates.
I could make the comment that Jints Central made the same business decision that BB made on Bruschi, Vrabel, Revis, Sherman, Wolfolk,, etc, etc, etc. and no one claimed BB has a problem with milennials.
Same data pattern.
Start with a conclusion you just need to assert and torture data into confessing it's the only way to think about it.
I'm in agreement across the board. I see the case for both OBJ and Collins either way and I'm not blind to NYG management problems the past decade. I don't think Gettleman is either, judging by the fact that he came in and gave most of the key players a year of evaluation before making any rash decisions. I think the apparent conclusions that informed his decision to rebuild around a younger core this past offseason were fair and he deserves a chance to see how they work out.
I've never posted a shot against Beckham or Collins. I was shocked to see the former traded and hoped a deal could be made for the latter, but the contract he got was insane. Anyhow, I don't see why people have a problem posting about said players. For one they are still very recently departed and in many cases, including this one, the Giants were brought up by them. I'd expect these comments to be discussed on a Giants board.
The more these guys talk the easier it is to not see them in blue next season
or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
kennard had a strong start, but in the last 10 games, he posted a very poor numbers with 19 tackles, 2 sacks, 3 TFL, and 6 qb hits. The jury is still out if he is a player worth regretting
just a terrific thread, particularly using Becham's and Collins's comments to analyze the Giants' management ills. Having been a Giants' fan since I discovered football in 1954, I agree that the Giants have had a penchant for trading away players who did not fit the management way of conducting themselves (i.e. Fred Dwyer and OBJ) and knowing how to deal with superbly talented but difficult personality-blessed players. On the other hand, some players, like some individuals in all professions, are just impossible to understand or to manage/supervise. I can name several people in my former profession who were let go perhaps prematurely because they just did not fit in, refused to act in accord with the rules, or refused to be supervises, OBJ and Collins are of different generations than Giants' management, and it is a shame that the matches were just doomed to failure. It is also sad that they performed in such a public arena so that we all could witness the failures of both sides.
or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
The same JPP who just broke his neck in a car accident?
I'm glad all of these guys are gone. And I won't miss Collins when the Giants have to cover Whitten/Ertz/Reed.
So what happens when Saquon does the slightest thing you don't like.
Because until JPP did something you didn't like he hadn't done anything wrong and was a model citizen.
it's a slippery slope applying moral or behavioral standards to professional athletes IMO and not an exercise I participate in.
As someone said above root for laundry.
it's ok to not miss any of the guys who are not here, but denying the talent of some of them makes fans seem like jilted exes.
My issue isn't that JPP wasn't a model citizen. It's that he's a moron.
Remember we are talking about someone who blew his fingers off with a firecracker. I'd be very surprised if Barkley ever did anything nearly as stupid or irresponsible as what JPP did. Simply put, Barkley isn't a moron who will blow his fingers off or have a single car accident at 4 AM.
'Giants thought Beckham was a problem the whole time'... Â
The first problem was Eli. He's the QB of the team and a 2X SB winner. That gives him enormous clout, but Eli is too soft spoken and would rather lead by example. That's fine to a degree, but a strong personality like OBJ obviously sees no threat there. If Eli was more of an alpha male who spoke up and took command, I tend to think that would have gone a long way towards getting OBJ in line.
A guy like Roethlesberger does this and he's portrayed as an asshole. Eli doesn't do it and he's a weak leader.
The first problem was Eli. He's the QB of the team and a 2X SB winner. That gives him enormous clout, but Eli is too soft spoken and would rather lead by example. That's fine to a degree, but a strong personality like OBJ obviously sees no threat there. If Eli was more of an alpha male who spoke up and took command, I tend to think that would have gone a long way towards getting OBJ in line.
A guy like Roethlesberger does this and he's portrayed as an asshole. Eli doesn't do it and he's a weak leader.
I dont think most Pitt fans think Ben is an asshole.
If they do think he's an asshole - its a "He's OUR asshole" type of thing.
You cant discuss culture without including management and this board has been very critical from Mara all the way down to Eli's equipment manager.
You can also give high-fives and encourage injured teammates then take a slant to the house which qualifies as a good teammate.
OBJ's problem is beyond the locker room and more indicative of the social media movement. He embraces his "I am more" persona for what? I mean, what Giants fan didnt think he was more?? We all loved him despite his warts.
Not sure I'll ever completely get over him being traded but at least now the drama should be at a minimum. OBJ is like a moth who will always fly into the light. The IVs, ghost injuries, bad mouthing interviews, and bipolar antics just eventually wore thin. I am more - ( New Window )
RE: We can go on and on about Beckham and Collins and others Â
until we're blue on the face. But it's amazing how underrated the handling of Eli and the Eli situation flies under the radar with some. That has been just as much of a problem with this franchise as anything or anyone else these past few years. 2020 can't get here soon enough.
Damn straight. And people keep giving Eli a pass for causing climate change too. Too much coddling going on in this world.
without a lot of big names, not a lot of attitudes, and just straight team work...
BB would not permit the bullshit. You are there to win. You are gone if you are a problem. He has full control over his locker room.
So should he have traded Brady for yelling at coaches and other players when things weren't going his way? Should he have traded Brady when he cheated by deflating balls and then not cooperating with the investigation?
Beckham and Brady are similar in that they both have a very strong passion for winning. The difference is Beckham doesn't cheat and he takes his frustrations out on kicking nets and the other team.
And trust me BB wouldn't have a quiet locker room if they had the record the Giants have had the last 5+ years.
RE: RE: RE: RE: what is being dead wrong about beckham mean? Â
pls elaborate with facts instead of emotions. let me guess...
similar to many players his 1 playoff game? he shat the bed?
and his injuries... 1 season of which was a sh$tty slant pass from the QB... which then our offense couldnt get a first down after that... and Geno Smith became the QB and the culture of the giants really started to show through? when he wasnt even playing.
what does wrong mean? i would really love to know...
Losing player? they won a division with him leading them to it, along with collins. won in college....
im happy to have the roster the giants have now... but pretty tired of reading nonsense
the same poster said he sucked in his 1 playoff and didnt make any meaningful regular season plays... except that season they won the division... he took a 5 yard slant to the house for the win... solid analysis... as always
It's not their talent, it's the constant diarrhea of the mouth. Just shut up... especially since you two guys keep telling everyone how happy you are with your new teams.
I think it is becoming clearer by the day some of these guys were not ideal team players... in fact, they were far from it. I can't imagine Parcells putting up with this shit.
then why did most of the feedback from most of the players indicate that people liked them? so other players like guys who are not team players? collins was named captain of the team.
what is more toxic- the eli/mara/mcadoo/geno situation... or anything else. the true colors of the dysfunction of the giants organization were shown during that entire episode. the build up and the execution of it, and what followed. Odell Beckham was not near the team during that... and landon collins had nothing to do with that.
and parcells put up with a criminal and had no social media to deal with--- but criminality is OK because the whole team was good so the culture was good so it was all cool.
Of course they were well liked. The locker room was filled with losing players.
We've since heard though that Eli is happy he's gone.
Bull shit. Eli never said that!
Why do you make stuff up???????
without a lot of big names, not a lot of attitudes, and just straight team work...
BB would not permit the bullshit. You are there to win. You are gone if you are a problem. He has full control over his locker room.
So should he have traded Brady for yelling at coaches and other players when things weren't going his way? Should he have traded Brady when he cheated by deflating balls and then not cooperating with the investigation?
Beckham and Brady are similar in that they both have a very strong passion for winning. The difference is Beckham doesn't cheat and he takes his frustrations out on kicking nets and the other team.
And trust me BB wouldn't have a quiet locker room if they had the record the Giants have had the last 5+ years.
OBJ choked when he made it to the playoffs. Brady didn’t.
or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
Sometimes football teams have to make tough decisions. Forget off the field, Beckham seemed to be missing that burst that made him Beckham. Maybe the Giants thought so too and moved him for good value. Maybe he does well in Cleveland next year, but better to get rid of a player a year early than a year late.
Collins is just trying to endear himself to his new team - a team whose owner loathes John Mara with every fiber of his being. I wish we had traded Collins but it is what it is. His skill set just doesn't translate easily to today's NFL and definitely not for the money he wanted.
He gained over 1000 yards last year in 12 games while being double teamed a lot of the time.
or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
The same JPP who just broke his neck in a car accident?
I'm glad all of these guys are gone. And I won't miss Collins when the Giants have to cover Whitten/Ertz/Reed.
I don't usually say negative things about fellow Giants fans but you're an asshole saying that about someone that was just in a serious car accident. Grow up man!!!!
or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
The same JPP who just broke his neck in a car accident?
I'm glad all of these guys are gone. And I won't miss Collins when the Giants have to cover Whitten/Ertz/Reed.
I don't usually say negative things about fellow Giants fans but you're an asshole saying that about someone that was just in a serious car accident. Grow up man!!!!
He was at fault in the accident. And he blew his fingers off. But if you’d rather call me an a-hole, be my guest.
without a lot of big names, not a lot of attitudes, and just straight team work...
BB would not permit the bullshit. You are there to win. You are gone if you are a problem. He has full control over his locker room.
So should he have traded Brady for yelling at coaches and other players when things weren't going his way? Should he have traded Brady when he cheated by deflating balls and then not cooperating with the investigation?
Beckham and Brady are similar in that they both have a very strong passion for winning. The difference is Beckham doesn't cheat and he takes his frustrations out on kicking nets and the other team.
And trust me BB wouldn't have a quiet locker room if they had the record the Giants have had the last 5+ years.
OBJ choked when he made it to the playoffs. Brady didn’t.
Comparing OBJ to the GOAT is silly.
Did you even read all of my post? I was comparing their passion for the game not their playoff performances. And calling Brady the GOAT is silly. He's in a very QB friendly system where Matt Cassel and Jimmy Garoppolo played great.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING&tabSeq=1&season=2016&Submit=Go&experience=&archive=true&conference=null&qualified=true
or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
The same JPP who just broke his neck in a car accident?
I'm glad all of these guys are gone. And I won't miss Collins when the Giants have to cover Whitten/Ertz/Reed.
I don't usually say negative things about fellow Giants fans but you're an asshole saying that about someone that was just in a serious car accident. Grow up man!!!!
He was at fault in the accident. And he blew his fingers off. But if you’d rather call me an a-hole, be my guest.
They were accidents. I suspect you've made a mistake or two in your life. But I apologize for the name calling....that was a knee jerk reaction.
https://www.tmz.com/2019/05/09/jason-pierre-paul-crashed-ferrari-report/
So unsubstantiated rumors are now repeated as fact.... got it.
Beckham substantiated his being an asshole on his own. It was visible for all to see.
And besides, why do you think they traded him? They had just paid him.
Beckham's a loser and an asshole. That's why he's gone. It's a huge relief, and it's also hilarious for those of us who weren't living in a state of delusion these last five years.
imo, dont care. Root for the colors. The operative word in the phrase "Winning Culture" is winning.
ObJ could be Saint Francis and he still was an asset on an impoverished roster of talent worth 3 picks and two decent FA signings next year.
LC is worth a 3rd and a mid to lower FA above his performance to value on the next contract.
sorry.
One relied on his legs and already missed 25% of the games in his first 6 years and the other has shoulder problems yet used his shoulder to tackle.
So their discounted value to performance when there were/are so many other needs in the years ahead was leaning the ship to starboard from 2019 onwards with little counter balancing performers at below market rates.
I could make the comment that Jints Central made the same business decision that BB made on Bruschi, Vrabel, Revis, Sherman, Wolfolk,, etc, etc, etc. and no one claimed BB has a problem with milennials.
Same data pattern.
Start with a conclusion you just need to assert and torture data into confessing it's the only way to think about it.
Many were saying that everything needed to be torn down and start over, and now that they’re doing it people are complaining. It’s always ‘Give me what I want.’ ‘Okay, here we go.’ ‘No, not like that!’
New coach, GM and the majority of the roster already overturned and most of the heavy contracts are almost gone.
Maybe they didn’t rip the band-aid off fast enough, but it’s pretty much dangling now. A lot of these ‘best players’ didn’t help this team win except for one fluke year. Six losing years out of seven should tell you what you need to know. The team has had a losing culture for years now, it’s feels fresh to try to establish a new one with Barkley as the face of the franchise, and hopefully Daniel Jones is the goods.
Look, the Giants are almost as much to blame for OBJ's conduct as OBJ.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
Yes they made Beckham fucking charge a blindsided Norman. Yes they made him do coke with strippers. Yes they made him say he wasn't so sure about ny after paying him. Yes they made him do dumb shit. Just stop with your dumb hot takes please
Obj is responsible for obj. The Giants are def old school in that they don't like weirdos but they didn't contribute to him acting like a fucking idiot
Look, the Giants are almost as much to blame for OBJ's conduct as OBJ.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
Yes they made Beckham fucking charge a blindsided Norman. Yes they made him do coke with strippers. Yes they made him say he wasn't so sure about ny after paying him. Yes they made him do dumb shit. Just stop with your dumb hot takes please
Obj is responsible for obj. The Giants are def old school in that they don't like weirdos but they didn't contribute to him acting like a fucking idiot
And despite all of that, the Giants still signed OBJ to a humongous contract. They knew exactly what they were dealing with - correct?
Indeed, OBJ is responsible for his own actions. But once we drafted him, enabled his actions, and still re-signed him, we also had some responsibility to help the guy. Maybe allocate some additional resources to make it work. Did we do that? I don't know, but I highly doubt it.
I'm going to make a leap here and suggest the Giants aren't the most progressive team in the league dealing with the changing times...And that is a problem with situations like OBJ.
Okay, I think Corey Ballantine is the latest of many players who would disagree with you on that one.
I don't follow. Ballantine was likely the victim of a crime, being at the wrong place at the wrong time.
"I'm cancer to a place that's OK (with) losing."
I'm so glad these guys are gone, I could cry tears of joy.
At least the guy said the right things publicly while he was here.
Time to move on already.
But the BBI threads live on!
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
This sounds like two ex-team mates that were no longer wanted by their former team, reinventing history to suit their current narrative.
Enjoy your big contracts and your new homes, and don't worry about the Giants, they'll take care of themselves.
He was. As much as Eli Apple sucks he should’ve never went to the press about it. Phony team leader
At least the guy said the right things publicly while he was here.
As a Washington Redskin he is saying all the right things for his new team too.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
Plenty of millenials who don't act like that. And the Giants have brought players in before who were not exactly saints. But they kept it behind closed doors. Everything with Odell is front and center, that i am sure they did not like. Agreed on mishandling him.
Collins is just butt hurt because the Giants did not want to pay Top dollar for an oft-injured in the box safety, who gets burnt in coverage. The only team that would pay him is also one of the worst runned teams in the league.
So we'll continue to get stories like this from OBJ and Collins because now that they are part of other organization, they will see how good they had it with the Giants...
So don't open the thread if you're not interested.
"I'm cancer to a place that's OK (with) losing."
I'm so glad these guys are gone, I could cry tears of joy.
Does OBJ realize he just left the 4 time SB Champ Giants for the Cleveland Browns?
Snark.
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traded THAN before he was traded. He's gone. It's over. Time to move on.
So don't open the thread if you're not interested.
I get that thought. But JFC, do we need a new thread on these guys every damn day? There was a thread last week about Odell at some MET gala. Who cares? He's no longer a Giant. Let's just move on with our lives.
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Look, the Giants are almost as much to blame for OBJ's conduct as OBJ.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
Plenty of millenials who don't act like that. And the Giants have brought players in before who were not exactly saints. But they kept it behind closed doors. Everything with Odell is front and center, that i am sure they did not like. Agreed on mishandling him.
I'm going to make a leap here and suggest the Giants aren't they most progressive team in the league dealing with the changing times...And that is a problem with situations like OBJ.
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In comment 14438797 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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traded THAN before he was traded. He's gone. It's over. Time to move on.
So don't open the thread if you're not interested.
I get that thought. But JFC, do we need a new thread on these guys every damn day? There was a thread last week about Odell at some MET gala. Who cares? He's no longer a Giant. Let's just move on with our lives.
It's a little bit kinda fun to watch the trainwreck unfold though...almost provides some justification for releasing these guys to those of us who were on the fence.
Besides, if the current team is going to behave itself, we need to look elsewhere for some drama during the slow times!
It's no surprise many don't want to read about it. They turned a blind eye and pretended these losers were great players while they were here.
And now Beckham says he's going to turn the Browns into the Patriots. That's funny when he doesn't have the first clue about winning in the NFL.
And perhaps worth noting that Collins's wonderlic score of 17, which isn't awful among DBs but is still well below average of the general population, isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Not sure his opinion or observation is valid or worth a darn.
But I’m also very happy we have a GM smart enough to let him walk, rather than pay him what he got from the Skins.
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to me like a few ex-Giants are having butt-hurt issues about being ex-Giants.
And perhaps worth noting that Collins's wonderlic score of 17, which isn't awful among DBs but is still well below average of the general population, isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Not sure his opinion or observation is valid or worth a darn.
Probably worth looking at what the wonderlic test is before making a comment like this.
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I actually like reading about OBJ and LC post Giants. Anyone who doesn't care doesn't have to open the thread.
It's no surprise many don't want to read about it. They turned a blind eye and pretended these losers were great players while they were here.
And now Beckham says he's going to turn the Browns into the Patriots. That's funny when he doesn't have the first clue about winning in the NFL.
It's funny how most of the people who turned out to be dead wrong about Beckham are the ones who cry about these threads now.
I dont envy the challenge. It's probably an incredibly common theme to pass on guys w minor red personality flags and incredibly common to roll the dice even tho you know some of those identified issues may arise. Where's the balance? When do you take the risk? When do you potentially pass on someone you think has the assets to be a star on the field but maybe a nightmare off?
When DG got here we knew one of his immediate missions was Culture. As time ticks on it becomes more evident what they were dealing w in house. Snacks, LC, OBJ and Apple are the first to mind but there were likely (many?) others.
what is pretty wild is that the class from last year barely speaks. I mean I follow most of them on social media I dont think Carter or Hernandez even tweet. The Lauletta issue is obviously well documented but aside from that is there anything from an interview or anything that '18 class has made us cringe about? Time will tell about '19 - sounds like Baker may have had a flag about how he handled not playing the bowl game but that seems like fluff
The Giants way - blah blah - call it whatever you want but the org feels like its moving in the right direction.
To me it becomes more obvious every single day
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I actually like reading about OBJ and LC post Giants. Anyone who doesn't care doesn't have to open the thread.
It's no surprise many don't want to read about it. They turned a blind eye and pretended these losers were great players while they were here.
And now Beckham says he's going to turn the Browns into the Patriots. That's funny when he doesn't have the first clue about winning in the NFL.
The Patriots have WRs who actually show up in the playoffs ... so glad this clown is in a different uniform. Great talent, never “liked” rooting for him. Enjoy Ohio.
Weren't you calling for the now infamous Kim Jones "Beckham is going nowhere" thread to be pinned?
Is that anything like popping up in threads with TRAID BECKUM!!! posts?
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"I hate this guy, but I'm going to pop up in every conversation of him and be loud about it".
Weren't you calling for the now infamous Kim Jones "Beckham is going nowhere" thread to be pinned?
Probably. What of it?
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"I hate this guy, but I'm going to pop up in every conversation of him and be loud about it".
Is that anything like popping up in threads with TRAID BECKUM!!! posts?
Well, one is making fun of the ridiculousness of the other.
And when the situation is such that members of this site have taken to patrolling instagram like hall monitors and police informants for things to bitch about, ridiculousness is certainly the word for it.
similar to many players his 1 playoff game? he shat the bed?
and his injuries... 1 season of which was a sh$tty slant pass from the QB... which then our offense couldnt get a first down after that... and Geno Smith became the QB and the culture of the giants really started to show through? when he wasnt even playing.
what does wrong mean? i would really love to know...
Losing player? they won a division with him leading them to it, along with collins. won in college....
im happy to have the roster the giants have now... but pretty tired of reading nonsense
the same poster said he sucked in his 1 playoff and didnt make any meaningful regular season plays... except that season they won the division... he took a 5 yard slant to the house for the win... solid analysis... as always
Why? He got paid big time and will be viewed favorably in DC so long as he plays at least commiserate to his play in NY. It's not like NY crapped on him or made him out to be a part of the problem as it appears is the case with OBJ.
similar to many players his 1 playoff game? he shat the bed?
and his injuries... 1 season of which was a sh$tty slant pass from the QB... which then our offense couldnt get a first down after that... and Geno Smith became the QB and the culture of the giants really started to show through? when he wasnt even playing.
what does wrong mean? i would really love to know...
Losing player? they won a division with him leading them to it, along with collins. won in college....
im happy to have the roster the giants have now... but pretty tired of reading nonsense
the same poster said he sucked in his 1 playoff and didnt make any meaningful regular season plays... except that season they won the division... he took a 5 yard slant to the house for the win... solid analysis... as always
It's not their talent, it's the constant diarrhea of the mouth. Just shut up... especially since you two guys keep telling everyone how happy you are with your new teams.
I think it is becoming clearer by the day some of these guys were not ideal team players... in fact, they were far from it. I can't imagine Parcells putting up with this shit.
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In comment 14438878 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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"I hate this guy, but I'm going to pop up in every conversation of him and be loud about it".
Is that anything like popping up in threads with TRAID BECKUM!!! posts?
Well, one is making fun of the ridiculousness of the other.
And when the situation is such that members of this site have taken to patrolling instagram like hall monitors and police informants for things to bitch about, ridiculousness is certainly the word for it.
I've never been on Instagram in my life. Didn't need to be to see what Beckham was.
And in the end, Beckham was indeed TRAIDED because he was an asshole.
BB would not permit the bullshit. You are there to win. You are gone if you are a problem. He has full control over his locker room.
It's appropriate that that boat trip is his legacy.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
But he does seem bitter since being let go. Who knows how we'd react in that situation, but I'd think you'd want to wait to let your play on the field for a new team speak first. Then maybe talk a bit
Amen to that OBJ gave us some thrills to say the least .
That Monday night ridiculous catch will never be forgotten
I think in a way it hurt him that everyone wanted his
attention and at his age he got into the Hollywood gutter
and with the video in the Hotel was not a good look .
I hope he keeps his head on straight and continues his greatness .
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Look, the Giants are almost as much to blame for OBJ's conduct as OBJ.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
Not only 'Jints Central': it began to go off the rails when TC closed his eyes to Odell's on-field antics with Norman (doesn't matter who initiated) and pretended in the post-game that he hadn't seen it. It set a tone that did not reverse.
That's right. Coughlin was absolutely an enabler.
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pls elaborate with facts instead of emotions. let me guess...
similar to many players his 1 playoff game? he shat the bed?
and his injuries... 1 season of which was a sh$tty slant pass from the QB... which then our offense couldnt get a first down after that... and Geno Smith became the QB and the culture of the giants really started to show through? when he wasnt even playing.
what does wrong mean? i would really love to know...
Losing player? they won a division with him leading them to it, along with collins. won in college....
im happy to have the roster the giants have now... but pretty tired of reading nonsense
the same poster said he sucked in his 1 playoff and didnt make any meaningful regular season plays... except that season they won the division... he took a 5 yard slant to the house for the win... solid analysis... as always
It's not their talent, it's the constant diarrhea of the mouth. Just shut up... especially since you two guys keep telling everyone how happy you are with your new teams.
I think it is becoming clearer by the day some of these guys were not ideal team players... in fact, they were far from it. I can't imagine Parcells putting up with this shit.
then why did most of the feedback from most of the players indicate that people liked them? so other players like guys who are not team players? collins was named captain of the team.
what is more toxic- the eli/mara/mcadoo/geno situation... or anything else. the true colors of the dysfunction of the giants organization were shown during that entire episode. the build up and the execution of it, and what followed. Odell Beckham was not near the team during that... and landon collins had nothing to do with that.
and parcells put up with a criminal and had no social media to deal with--- but criminality is OK because the whole team was good so the culture was good so it was all cool.
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In comment 14438895 hitdog42 said:
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pls elaborate with facts instead of emotions. let me guess...
similar to many players his 1 playoff game? he shat the bed?
and his injuries... 1 season of which was a sh$tty slant pass from the QB... which then our offense couldnt get a first down after that... and Geno Smith became the QB and the culture of the giants really started to show through? when he wasnt even playing.
what does wrong mean? i would really love to know...
Losing player? they won a division with him leading them to it, along with collins. won in college....
im happy to have the roster the giants have now... but pretty tired of reading nonsense
the same poster said he sucked in his 1 playoff and didnt make any meaningful regular season plays... except that season they won the division... he took a 5 yard slant to the house for the win... solid analysis... as always
It's not their talent, it's the constant diarrhea of the mouth. Just shut up... especially since you two guys keep telling everyone how happy you are with your new teams.
I think it is becoming clearer by the day some of these guys were not ideal team players... in fact, they were far from it. I can't imagine Parcells putting up with this shit.
then why did most of the feedback from most of the players indicate that people liked them? so other players like guys who are not team players? collins was named captain of the team.
what is more toxic- the eli/mara/mcadoo/geno situation... or anything else. the true colors of the dysfunction of the giants organization were shown during that entire episode. the build up and the execution of it, and what followed. Odell Beckham was not near the team during that... and landon collins had nothing to do with that.
and parcells put up with a criminal and had no social media to deal with--- but criminality is OK because the whole team was good so the culture was good so it was all cool.
Of course they were well liked. The locker room was filled with losing players.
We've since heard though that Eli is happy he's gone.
I still can’t believe they paid him what they did.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
I agree that Beckham doesn't fit the 'Giant Way' now with Gettleman in the FO, but I think he was the epitome of it during the waning days of the Reese era.
BW, I mean this sincerely and not just you but others have agreed with you; how were the Giants or any NFL team for that matter supposed to 'handle' OBJ or any other player in that mold( Antonio Brown, Bell, hell refer to Shockey or terrell owens). What are teams supposed to do(other than trade them)? I am nt defending the Giants, just honestly wondering?
then why did most of the feedback from most of the players indicate that people liked them? so other players like guys who are not team players? collins was named captain of the team.
what is more toxic- the eli/mara/mcadoo/geno situation... or anything else. the true colors of the dysfunction of the giants organization were shown during that entire episode. the build up and the execution of it, and what followed. Odell Beckham was not near the team during that... and landon collins had nothing to do with that.
and parcells put up with a criminal and had no social media to deal with--- but criminality is OK because the whole team was good so the culture was good so it was all cool.
Hitdog - JMO but the part is bolded is mostly unrelated. The same players mostly said they liked McAdoo also. Jim Fassell's players liked him and Strahan practically refused to play for Coughlin. That didn't make Strahan less of a leader, or less of a team player, though at times he wasn't the greatest of either - it just made him a bad evaluator of what it takes to be a good head coach. People can be well liked and not great at something or vice versa.
On the field Beckham was as good as any individual player I can recall on the Giants - including Strahan. I trust Coughlin and all the others at their word that he was also a good teammate, a hard worker, a great practicer, and a tough/competitive player who wanted to win. Does any of that exclude the possibility that Beckham didn't realize some of his behavior wasn't helpful in the pursuit of winning? The penalties, the tantrums on the sidelines, the boat trip, not participating in some aspects of the offseason, etc.? And obviously the context of these issues is less severe way than if there was anything criminal. There is a very big difference between having a headache like Shockey and a literal button man like Aaron Hernandez.
I don't blame OBJ or Collins for the culture in the lockerroom - for that I blame Reese and Mara first, Mcadoo second. Some of the players became collateral damage to the poor decisions by the 3 I mentioned and the losing that came with it. But all that said the players themselves were not entirely blameless. OBJ got the biggest nonQB contract in franchise history. Collins was a captain on defense that probably lost close to 10 games the past 2 years on the last possession. Everyone has moved on, it's probably best to just say "things didn't work out and everyone shares some piece of that blame" vs. the players themselves who are no longer here pointing fingers. What does it matter to them and their new teams?
Um, Strahan hated Fassel. Don't you remember Strahan ripping Fassel while Fassel was away from the team to attend his mother's funeral?
He didn't like Coughlin in the beginning either, but not out of loyalty to Fassel.
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Jim Fassell's players liked him and Strahan practically refused to play for Coughlin.
Um, Strahan hated Fassel. Don't you remember Strahan ripping Fassel while Fassel was away from the team to attend his mother's funeral?
He didn't like Coughlin in the beginning either, but not out of loyalty to Fassel.
Where did I say Strahan disliked Coughlin out of loyalty to Fassel? I specifically mentioned that Strahan wasn't always a good leader or good team player. Everyone knew Strahan was completely against Coughlin because of his reputation and his demanding style, with nothing to do with anything else and he's said so publicly about 10,000 times.
My memory of Fassel is that the majority of players and organization liked him and he was considered a players coach - which is why I said "Jim Fassel's players liked him". Do you remember it differently?
It wasn't only him.
The weird thing... as some have already alluded to... is that Tom Coughlin let Beckham get away with murder. The Giants kowtowed to him for years.
As others have also said, this group of Giants acted like they had already won something. They didn't even win a playoff game. They were a bunch of players on one of the worst teams in the NFL for the past six years. They should shut the blank up. They haven't earned it.
im sorry that is a sh$t narrative. when the only people that helped us win during the one good year... were those players.
and can someone answer me has there been any worse thing for the culture of a team, the players, and franchise.... than the geno/eli ordeal... which had zero to do with any people still on the giants except eli and mara?
im sorry that is a sh$t narrative. when the only people that helped us win during the one good year... were those players.
and can someone answer me has there been any worse thing for the culture of a team, the players, and franchise.... than the geno/eli ordeal... which had zero to do with any people still on the giants except eli and mara?
and ill agree the boat trip and making it a public display... is up there... but they dont equate for the structural issue that existed in the franchise
We don't know yet if the culture is fixed or not.
exactly
im sorry that is a sh$t narrative. when the only people that helped us win during the one good year... were those players.
and can someone answer me has there been any worse thing for the culture of a team, the players, and franchise.... than the geno/eli ordeal... which had zero to do with any people still on the giants except eli and mara?
It was all toxic. It wasn't working. I get the sense that you think there is simply self-justification going on here. But how many of us were worried that the Giants would overpay Collins - a player who seemed to be living off the reputation built off his 2016 season. And there were many who feared that Odell wasn't quite the same player after the injury. And like many other teammates - who are long since gone - this group yapped ceaselessly. Never had a group of players who accomplished so little thought so highly of themselves. There was an 11-5 season. But it was surrounded by 6-10, 6-10, 3-13, and 5-11. And sometimes they just quit. The stadium was half empty more times than ever. It was a shit product.
Were management and coaching to blame? Yes, they brought the players here and they didn't instill discipline. But two head coaches, countless assistant coaches, a GM and a personnel director have also been fired. Why is Ross so disliked? Because not only was his drafting abysmal, but he talked it wasn't (and is still talking like it wasn't).
Just a toxic mess. Probably the most unforgettable span of Giants football since pre-1981. And OBJ, Collins, probably a 100 or so players who came and went during that time period will all be lumped in with that mess. They will end up being an afterthought.
IMO, he seems to be doing OK so far.
I would say on punt return duty he did. Great athlete not a football player.
im just not someone who is going to pretend like a WR or safety was any more the reason than a front office or a QB controversy or 2 bad first round picks or the coach.
the whole thing was a total fking mess. but we have ongoing discussions about good riddance on the 2 players responsible for our 1 fluke season of winning... during said toxic mess... which maybe they contributed too, maybe they didnt, nobody here knows.
Indeed, I had the wrong read on Collins
It seems to me that Landon Collins is merely standing up for his former teammate now that he is no longer being paid by the team he feels scapegoated Beckham.
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is a helluva lot more important than fixing the culture Gettleman likes to prattle on about.
exactly
Sorry its both. I'm not piling on OBJ or Collins (I agree with Kyle that Collins is more immature than a bad guy) but for whatever reason the culture was fucked.
I think Terps is right that OBJ ruined TC, he was so desperate to win he let OBJ do his own thing and then lost control.
im just not someone who is going to pretend like a WR or safety was any more the reason than a front office or a QB controversy or 2 bad first round picks or the coach.
the whole thing was a total fking mess. but we have ongoing discussions about good riddance on the 2 players responsible for our 1 fluke season of winning... during said toxic mess... which maybe they contributed too, maybe they didnt, nobody here knows.
So they're solely responsible for our "1 good season" but you're not sure what they may have contributed to all of the garbage around that?
Must be nice to be Beckham and Collins. Talk about a win-win situation!
He has his share of blame, definitely.
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the entire franchise was a toxic mess.
im just not someone who is going to pretend like a WR or safety was any more the reason than a front office or a QB controversy or 2 bad first round picks or the coach.
the whole thing was a total fking mess. but we have ongoing discussions about good riddance on the 2 players responsible for our 1 fluke season of winning... during said toxic mess... which maybe they contributed too, maybe they didnt, nobody here knows.
So they're solely responsible for our "1 good season" but you're not sure what they may have contributed to all of the garbage around that?
Must be nice to be Beckham and Collins. Talk about a win-win situation!
the best offensive and best defensive player the year we were decent. those are facts
everything else we dont know... were they toxic? maybe... was the whole franchise toxic... yes... im not going to say sh$t if i dont know its accurate-
My take is OB was probably very difficult for the coaches and team staff to deal with, that's gotten out in print as well, as well as the sentiment he'd worn out his welcome with these people. Players aren't the only ones going to work on a daily basis.
I don't doubt NYG has been using the media to help support their narrative. But, I think my perspective is also true.
im just not someone who is going to pretend like a WR or safety was any more the reason than a front office or a QB controversy or 2 bad first round picks or the coach.
the whole thing was a total fking mess. but we have ongoing discussions about good riddance on the 2 players responsible for our 1 fluke season of winning... during said toxic mess... which maybe they contributed too, maybe they didnt, nobody here knows.
I don't think there is anyone here who are blaming it on just two players. If you've been on this site a long time - and I know you have - the similar posts have long been made against owners, management, coaches, the quarterback, and many of the players.
The "house cleaning" didn't mainly consist of these two players.
Just wait and compare who is on the roster on September 2019 with who was on it two years ago. Hardly anyone will be left.
I think his stupidity with the media was his attempt at leadership. It was a poor attempt at letting fans and mgmt know that Apple was a cancer. Again, I think this was not trying to be a firebrand.
Then when the Giants didn't even tender him an offer, that was the uppercut that likely caused a major rift between him and the Giants.
I can see his side of it, he loved it here and got hit with the business end of the stick.
They won't shut up about their old team. If Vernon and Snacks were doing the same, you'd be hearing about them too.
The problem is, while they may have replaced all the Goofuses with Gallants, it's still a talent-deficient roster with a ton of holes.
This IMO is Eli's biggest weakness, aside from the screen pass. His presence wasn't strong enough to keep some in line.
We have no idea.
All I know is the old group was a mess. It wasn't working.
Like gidiefor, I am actually excited about the upcoming season for the first time in a couple of years.
Meanwhile, Eli has two Super Bowl MVP awards. Beckham had a nice boat trip.
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In comment 14439034 Greg from LI said:
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is a helluva lot more important than fixing the culture Gettleman likes to prattle on about.
exactly
Sorry its both. I'm not piling on OBJ or Collins (I agree with Kyle that Collins is more immature than a bad guy) but for whatever reason the culture was fucked.
I think Terps is right that OBJ ruined TC, he was so desperate to win he let OBJ do his own thing and then lost control.
I disagree
2009: 8-8
2010: 10-6
2011: 9-7
2012: 9-7
2013: 7-9
2014: 6-10 Beckham's rookie year
2015: 6-10
2016: 11-5 McAdoo
2017: 3-13
2018: 5-11
It seems to me like the team was mediocre and then trending in the wrong direction under Coughlin while Beckham was still in Baton Rouge.
I think it was more of an indication of a terrible job by the front office as the offensive line and defense deteriorated into garbage.
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Look, the Giants are almost as much to blame for OBJ's conduct as OBJ.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
I agree that Beckham doesn't fit the 'Giant Way' now with Gettleman in the FO, but I think he was the epitome of it during the waning days of the Reese era.
BW, I mean this sincerely and not just you but others have agreed with you; how were the Giants or any NFL team for that matter supposed to 'handle' OBJ or any other player in that mold( Antonio Brown, Bell, hell refer to Shockey or terrell owens). What are teams supposed to do(other than trade them)? I am nt defending the Giants, just honestly wondering?
The first problem was Eli. He's the QB of the team and a 2X SB winner. That gives him enormous clout, but Eli is too soft spoken and would rather lead by example. That's fine to a degree, but a strong personality like OBJ obviously sees no threat there. If Eli was more of an alpha male who spoke up and took command, I tend to think that would have gone a long way towards getting OBJ in line.
By being such a prodigious talent, and achieving instant success, OBJ obviously felt like he was the King of NY, and the de facto King of the Team. Let's be honest - he became the face of the team. The media and fans were fawning all over him...
Secondly, Coughlin obviously decided it was more important to win - his job security was becoming an issue - and he was willing to tolerate OBJ's behavior for his production. So Coughlin basically tossed aside some of his core principles; and let OBJ have his own rules...
As for the rest of the organization, if I had to guess based on their milquetoast personalities, Mara, Reese, Tisch, et al were either keeping their distance with OBJ and wearing big sized kid gloves when they may have had to deal with him directly. I would imagine from a business perspective, they loved OBJ keeping the Giants relevant since he was must-see-tv.
Then in comes Shurmur and Gettleman. Who takes Shurmur seriously? What success had he had as an HC to get OBJ's attention? And why would OBJ be concerned about Gettleman who was out there for the early part of his tenure waxing poetic about OBJ? He probably saw an old man who loved to hog the camera and say good things about him.
In hindsight, Jints Central laid the groundwork for OBJ to basically do whatever the f-ck he wanted.
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is a helluva lot more important than fixing the culture Gettleman likes to prattle on about.
exactly
No self respecting Net fan shits on the idea of "culture"!!!
Meanwhile, Eli has two Super Bowl MVP awards. Beckham had a nice boat trip.
ok, lets just not count a complement to Mayfield as an insult of Eli.
That seems to happen a lot around here.
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In comment 14439034 Greg from LI said:
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is a helluva lot more important than fixing the culture Gettleman likes to prattle on about.
exactly
No self respecting Net fan shits on the idea of "culture"!!!
thats fair! and why i feel ok opining on the subject--- because of that. starts in management and coaching and staff... show me that happening and we wont be talking about issues with any players.
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In comment 14438817 bw in dc said:
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By being such a prodigious talent, and achieving instant success, OBJ obviously felt like he was the King of NY, and the de facto King of the Team. Let's be honest - he became the face of the team. The media and fans were fawning all over him...
Barkley made a huge splash his rookie year - and he doesn't act like this at all. Fans/media are fawning over him too.
OBJ is just a self absorbed jerk.
They pulled the same shit 50 years ago when they traded Tarkenton back to the Vikings and traded Fred Dryer- he was a cancer, he wasn't a team guy, he was a complainer, he wasn't a good fit blah, blah, blah.
This team's tactics will never change so long as a Mara is in charge.
The injury concerns with OBJ always made me nervous even before his little Wayne interview.
I'm curious to see how many games OBJ will actually play this upcoming season and if he can stay healthy.
Hope OBJ has a good career, and I would wish the best for Collins if he didn't play for the Redskins.
But as my alcoholic uncle Greg told me after a disappointing Giants season years ago...after a long pause..."If they sucked with the old players, they might be better with new players."
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In comment 14439036 hitdog42 said:
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In comment 14439034 Greg from LI said:
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is a helluva lot more important than fixing the culture Gettleman likes to prattle on about.
exactly
No self respecting Net fan shits on the idea of "culture"!!!
thats fair! and why i feel ok opining on the subject--- because of that. starts in management and coaching and staff... show me that happening and we wont be talking about issues with any players.
Ross and Reese and Mcadoo got fired - NOBODY absolves them of their part in this - which is more significant than anyone else. Fans are reacting to Beckham and Collins because of what they said - there is no greater agenda to bash those guys or put down what they did here.
To continue the Nets analogy, if Brook Lopez (or Thad Young or Bojan) had come out and taken shots in the direction of Sean Marks for not wanting to keep him and said something like "the Nets blamed me for not being a better defensive team" Net fans would probably similarly criticize him for having sour grapes despite knowing he was 1 of the better players over that era, that helped them get to some postseasons, and it was ownership/previous management to blame not him.
Marks, like Gettleman, came in years 1 & 2 and dealt off some veterans who were good players, who publicly said they wanted to stay, because he needed assets (cap room, draft picks) to help his rebuild. The difference here is that OBJ and Collins seem to want to continue to publicly argue the way they were treated upon exiting here.
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
The specific accusation (NYG thought "Beckham was always a problem") flies in the face of logic since they gave him almost $100m like 9 months ago. At minimum it's a more complicated discussion than "the giants blame OBJ". So I don't think it's unreasonable for people to feel like the commenter is going out of his way to stir things up for his former employer, especially when he's also acknowledged multiple times how well they treated him.
ok fair enough.
That said, I dont think he really has said much. He reacted to Getts indirectly calling him a bad character guy. Thats it. I would be pissed at that too.
His more recent comments at the Met gala were pretty tame and he in no way said anything negative about the org in those comments.
Anything to brush aside the fact that the franchise was being botched on an annual basis.
And the Giants' attitude toward having to endure some public dragging over their years of failure confirms the rot. The Giants have enjoyed, for decades, the benefit of the doubt from the media (excepting a few media personalities like Gary Myers). People never piled on the Giants because they were the Giants. One of the 'stable' New York teams. Well, when you're bad for half a decade, fire a GM, fire two coaches, and endure 3-win seasons, eventually you're going to have to answer some hard questions. And their response has been a petulant, child stomping feet, us against the world mentality.
ObJ could be Saint Francis and he still was an asset on an impoverished roster of talent worth 3 picks and two decent FA signings next year.
LC is worth a 3rd and a mid to lower FA above his performance to value on the next contract.
sorry.
One relied on his legs and already missed 25% of the games in his first 6 years and the other has shoulder problems yet used his shoulder to tackle.
So their discounted value to performance when there were/are so many other needs in the years ahead was leaning the ship to starboard from 2019 onwards with little counter balancing performers at below market rates.
I could make the comment that Jints Central made the same business decision that BB made on Bruschi, Vrabel, Revis, Sherman, Wolfolk,, etc, etc, etc. and no one claimed BB has a problem with milennials.
Same data pattern.
Start with a conclusion you just need to assert and torture data into confessing it's the only way to think about it.
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or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
The specific accusation (NYG thought "Beckham was always a problem") flies in the face of logic since they gave him almost $100m like 9 months ago. At minimum it's a more complicated discussion than "the giants blame OBJ". So I don't think it's unreasonable for people to feel like the commenter is going out of his way to stir things up for his former employer, especially when he's also acknowledged multiple times how well they treated him.
People keep putting microphones in these former players faces and they keep saying things. Some of it has to be filtered out.
And who knows what exactly a problem means. Before the extension they had the Norman incident, the kicking tee stuff, the dehydration issues, not working out with Eli, the boat trip, the playoff debacle, the pizza/coke video, etc. yet he's still a HOF caliber WR, so you make a decision if he's a part of your future.
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In comment 14438817 bw in dc said:
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Look, the Giants are almost as much to blame for OBJ's conduct as OBJ.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
Plenty of millenials who don't act like that. And the Giants have brought players in before who were not exactly saints. But they kept it behind closed doors. Everything with Odell is front and center, that i am sure they did not like. Agreed on mishandling him.
I'm going to make a leap here and suggest the Giants aren't they most progressive team in the league dealing with the changing times...And that is a problem with situations like OBJ.
Okay, I think Corey Ballantine is the latest of many players who would disagree with you on that one.
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
Sometimes football teams have to make tough decisions. Forget off the field, Beckham seemed to be missing that burst that made him Beckham. Maybe the Giants thought so too and moved him for good value. Maybe he does well in Cleveland next year, but better to get rid of a player a year early than a year late.
Collins is just trying to endear himself to his new team - a team whose owner loathes John Mara with every fiber of his being. I wish we had traded Collins but it is what it is. His skill set just doesn't translate easily to today's NFL and definitely not for the money he wanted.
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or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
Sometimes football teams have to make tough decisions. Forget off the field, Beckham seemed to be missing that burst that made him Beckham. Maybe the Giants thought so too and moved him for good value. Maybe he does well in Cleveland next year, but better to get rid of a player a year early than a year late.
Collins is just trying to endear himself to his new team - a team whose owner loathes John Mara with every fiber of his being. I wish we had traded Collins but it is what it is. His skill set just doesn't translate easily to today's NFL and definitely not for the money he wanted.
I have no issue with trading players. In my world everyone can be traded for the right value.
My problem is shitting on everyone who gets traded as "the problem" either in the locker room or on the field even despite stats.
it's a shitty thing for an organization to do to kick everyone on the way out of town. Seems like your trying to spin a narrative.
Snacks is a good example. When here he was the prototypical lunch pail guy, shows up every game ready to play, keeps his head down, hungry and humble.
then on his way out, the run D really wasn't that much different with or without him (which is a sketchy claim - look how DET improved with him) and he wasn't a leader in the locker room.
One more thing though is that Ross and Reese's obsession over Athletes vs Football players, meant that too often, Coughlin who is not the most adaptable person in the world, was forced to coach up and deal with players who not only were not a fit schematically, but not a threat culturally for this team, franchise and Market.
TC owns a lot of blame for not putting his foot down and benching OBJ earlier in his career but we must not let the failures of the other Execs go under-reported.
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
The same JPP who just broke his neck in a car accident?
I'm glad all of these guys are gone. And I won't miss Collins when the Giants have to cover Whitten/Ertz/Reed.
Tough to pin it directly on the Giants, it began with an ESPN tweet from what I remember. But the beat writers ran with it, and many times I feel like some beat writers are mouth pieces for the team. and it became a common theme.
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or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
The same JPP who just broke his neck in a car accident?
I'm glad all of these guys are gone. And I won't miss Collins when the Giants have to cover Whitten/Ertz/Reed.
So what happens when Saquon does the slightest thing you don't like.
Because until JPP did something you didn't like he hadn't done anything wrong and was a model citizen.
it's a slippery slope applying moral or behavioral standards to professional athletes IMO and not an exercise I participate in.
As someone said above root for laundry.
it's ok to not miss any of the guys who are not here, but denying the talent of some of them makes fans seem like jilted exes.
ObJ could be Saint Francis and he still was an asset on an impoverished roster of talent worth 3 picks and two decent FA signings next year.
LC is worth a 3rd and a mid to lower FA above his performance to value on the next contract.
sorry.
One relied on his legs and already missed 25% of the games in his first 6 years and the other has shoulder problems yet used his shoulder to tackle.
So their discounted value to performance when there were/are so many other needs in the years ahead was leaning the ship to starboard from 2019 onwards with little counter balancing performers at below market rates.
I could make the comment that Jints Central made the same business decision that BB made on Bruschi, Vrabel, Revis, Sherman, Wolfolk,, etc, etc, etc. and no one claimed BB has a problem with milennials.
Same data pattern.
Start with a conclusion you just need to assert and torture data into confessing it's the only way to think about it.
I'm in agreement across the board. I see the case for both OBJ and Collins either way and I'm not blind to NYG management problems the past decade. I don't think Gettleman is either, judging by the fact that he came in and gave most of the key players a year of evaluation before making any rash decisions. I think the apparent conclusions that informed his decision to rebuild around a younger core this past offseason were fair and he deserves a chance to see how they work out.
The more these guys talk the easier it is to not see them in blue next season
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
Getting a broken neck is not having a great year.
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In comment 14439136 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
The same JPP who just broke his neck in a car accident?
I'm glad all of these guys are gone. And I won't miss Collins when the Giants have to cover Whitten/Ertz/Reed.
So what happens when Saquon does the slightest thing you don't like.
Because until JPP did something you didn't like he hadn't done anything wrong and was a model citizen.
it's a slippery slope applying moral or behavioral standards to professional athletes IMO and not an exercise I participate in.
As someone said above root for laundry.
it's ok to not miss any of the guys who are not here, but denying the talent of some of them makes fans seem like jilted exes.
My issue isn't that JPP wasn't a model citizen. It's that he's a moron.
Remember we are talking about someone who blew his fingers off with a firecracker. I'd be very surprised if Barkley ever did anything nearly as stupid or irresponsible as what JPP did. Simply put, Barkley isn't a moron who will blow his fingers off or have a single car accident at 4 AM.
A guy like Roethlesberger does this and he's portrayed as an asshole. Eli doesn't do it and he's a weak leader.
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The first problem was Eli. He's the QB of the team and a 2X SB winner. That gives him enormous clout, but Eli is too soft spoken and would rather lead by example. That's fine to a degree, but a strong personality like OBJ obviously sees no threat there. If Eli was more of an alpha male who spoke up and took command, I tend to think that would have gone a long way towards getting OBJ in line.
A guy like Roethlesberger does this and he's portrayed as an asshole. Eli doesn't do it and he's a weak leader.
I dont think most Pitt fans think Ben is an asshole.
If they do think he's an asshole - its a "He's OUR asshole" type of thing.
You can also give high-fives and encourage injured teammates then take a slant to the house which qualifies as a good teammate.
OBJ's problem is beyond the locker room and more indicative of the social media movement. He embraces his "I am more" persona for what? I mean, what Giants fan didnt think he was more?? We all loved him despite his warts.
Not sure I'll ever completely get over him being traded but at least now the drama should be at a minimum. OBJ is like a moth who will always fly into the light. The IVs, ghost injuries, bad mouthing interviews, and bipolar antics just eventually wore thin.
I am more - ( New Window )
Damn straight. And people keep giving Eli a pass for causing climate change too. Too much coddling going on in this world.
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without a lot of big names, not a lot of attitudes, and just straight team work...
BB would not permit the bullshit. You are there to win. You are gone if you are a problem. He has full control over his locker room.
So should he have traded Brady for yelling at coaches and other players when things weren't going his way? Should he have traded Brady when he cheated by deflating balls and then not cooperating with the investigation?
Beckham and Brady are similar in that they both have a very strong passion for winning. The difference is Beckham doesn't cheat and he takes his frustrations out on kicking nets and the other team.
And trust me BB wouldn't have a quiet locker room if they had the record the Giants have had the last 5+ years.
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In comment 14438902 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 14438895 hitdog42 said:
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pls elaborate with facts instead of emotions. let me guess...
similar to many players his 1 playoff game? he shat the bed?
and his injuries... 1 season of which was a sh$tty slant pass from the QB... which then our offense couldnt get a first down after that... and Geno Smith became the QB and the culture of the giants really started to show through? when he wasnt even playing.
what does wrong mean? i would really love to know...
Losing player? they won a division with him leading them to it, along with collins. won in college....
im happy to have the roster the giants have now... but pretty tired of reading nonsense
the same poster said he sucked in his 1 playoff and didnt make any meaningful regular season plays... except that season they won the division... he took a 5 yard slant to the house for the win... solid analysis... as always
It's not their talent, it's the constant diarrhea of the mouth. Just shut up... especially since you two guys keep telling everyone how happy you are with your new teams.
I think it is becoming clearer by the day some of these guys were not ideal team players... in fact, they were far from it. I can't imagine Parcells putting up with this shit.
then why did most of the feedback from most of the players indicate that people liked them? so other players like guys who are not team players? collins was named captain of the team.
what is more toxic- the eli/mara/mcadoo/geno situation... or anything else. the true colors of the dysfunction of the giants organization were shown during that entire episode. the build up and the execution of it, and what followed. Odell Beckham was not near the team during that... and landon collins had nothing to do with that.
and parcells put up with a criminal and had no social media to deal with--- but criminality is OK because the whole team was good so the culture was good so it was all cool.
Of course they were well liked. The locker room was filled with losing players.
We've since heard though that Eli is happy he's gone.
Bull shit. Eli never said that!
Why do you make stuff up???????
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In comment 14438885 HoustonGiant said:
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without a lot of big names, not a lot of attitudes, and just straight team work...
BB would not permit the bullshit. You are there to win. You are gone if you are a problem. He has full control over his locker room.
So should he have traded Brady for yelling at coaches and other players when things weren't going his way? Should he have traded Brady when he cheated by deflating balls and then not cooperating with the investigation?
Beckham and Brady are similar in that they both have a very strong passion for winning. The difference is Beckham doesn't cheat and he takes his frustrations out on kicking nets and the other team.
And trust me BB wouldn't have a quiet locker room if they had the record the Giants have had the last 5+ years.
OBJ choked when he made it to the playoffs. Brady didn’t.
Comparing OBJ to the GOAT is silly.
That was from an asshat who was proven to be a fraud
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but I can see how the organization got tired of him being its unofficial spokesman... wonder if he was the pipeline to Josina Anderson?
It wasn't only him.
She's nicknamed "Hosina" by some around the team. Just saying.
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or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
Sometimes football teams have to make tough decisions. Forget off the field, Beckham seemed to be missing that burst that made him Beckham. Maybe the Giants thought so too and moved him for good value. Maybe he does well in Cleveland next year, but better to get rid of a player a year early than a year late.
Collins is just trying to endear himself to his new team - a team whose owner loathes John Mara with every fiber of his being. I wish we had traded Collins but it is what it is. His skill set just doesn't translate easily to today's NFL and definitely not for the money he wanted.
He gained over 1000 yards last year in 12 games while being double teamed a lot of the time.
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or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
The same JPP who just broke his neck in a car accident?
I'm glad all of these guys are gone. And I won't miss Collins when the Giants have to cover Whitten/Ertz/Reed.
I don't usually say negative things about fellow Giants fans but you're an asshole saying that about someone that was just in a serious car accident. Grow up man!!!!
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In comment 14439136 pjcas18 said:
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or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
The same JPP who just broke his neck in a car accident?
I'm glad all of these guys are gone. And I won't miss Collins when the Giants have to cover Whitten/Ertz/Reed.
I don't usually say negative things about fellow Giants fans but you're an asshole saying that about someone that was just in a serious car accident. Grow up man!!!!
He was at fault in the accident. And he blew his fingers off. But if you’d rather call me an a-hole, be my guest.
So unsubstantiated rumors are now repeated as fact.... got it.
That asshat was JT Giants if I'm not mistaken
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In comment 14438907 AnnapolisMike said:
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In comment 14438885 HoustonGiant said:
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without a lot of big names, not a lot of attitudes, and just straight team work...
BB would not permit the bullshit. You are there to win. You are gone if you are a problem. He has full control over his locker room.
So should he have traded Brady for yelling at coaches and other players when things weren't going his way? Should he have traded Brady when he cheated by deflating balls and then not cooperating with the investigation?
Beckham and Brady are similar in that they both have a very strong passion for winning. The difference is Beckham doesn't cheat and he takes his frustrations out on kicking nets and the other team.
And trust me BB wouldn't have a quiet locker room if they had the record the Giants have had the last 5+ years.
OBJ choked when he made it to the playoffs. Brady didn’t.
Comparing OBJ to the GOAT is silly.
Did you even read all of my post? I was comparing their passion for the game not their playoff performances. And calling Brady the GOAT is silly. He's in a very QB friendly system where Matt Cassel and Jimmy Garoppolo played great.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING&tabSeq=1&season=2016&Submit=Go&experience=&archive=true&conference=null&qualified=true
Oh he is already damned
He made the fatal flaw of setting high expectations
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In comment 14439188 RobCarpenter said:
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In comment 14439136 pjcas18 said:
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or maybe since the team is no longer your employer you are free to be honest?
I also think people are going to miss Beckham and Collins maybe more than they think.
It's funny how once a player is gone, they were a cancer. JPP had a great year with TB, but many fans rejoiced to get out of his conract. next the problem is snacks, vernon, beckham, collins, etc.
Look at the year Kennard had in DET.
At some point it's not always the players.
The same JPP who just broke his neck in a car accident?
I'm glad all of these guys are gone. And I won't miss Collins when the Giants have to cover Whitten/Ertz/Reed.
I don't usually say negative things about fellow Giants fans but you're an asshole saying that about someone that was just in a serious car accident. Grow up man!!!!
He was at fault in the accident. And he blew his fingers off. But if you’d rather call me an a-hole, be my guest.
They were accidents. I suspect you've made a mistake or two in your life. But I apologize for the name calling....that was a knee jerk reaction.
https://www.tmz.com/2019/05/09/jason-pierre-paul-crashed-ferrari-report/
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We've heard that from asshats.
So unsubstantiated rumors are now repeated as fact.... got it.
Beckham substantiated his being an asshole on his own. It was visible for all to see.
And besides, why do you think they traded him? They had just paid him.
Beckham's a loser and an asshole. That's why he's gone. It's a huge relief, and it's also hilarious for those of us who weren't living in a state of delusion these last five years.
Beckham was clearly a problem. They wouldn't have traded a physical talent like that if he had his head on straight.
Figuring thst out doesn't make you a genius, you need to get over yourself.
ObJ could be Saint Francis and he still was an asset on an impoverished roster of talent worth 3 picks and two decent FA signings next year.
LC is worth a 3rd and a mid to lower FA above his performance to value on the next contract.
sorry.
One relied on his legs and already missed 25% of the games in his first 6 years and the other has shoulder problems yet used his shoulder to tackle.
So their discounted value to performance when there were/are so many other needs in the years ahead was leaning the ship to starboard from 2019 onwards with little counter balancing performers at below market rates.
I could make the comment that Jints Central made the same business decision that BB made on Bruschi, Vrabel, Revis, Sherman, Wolfolk,, etc, etc, etc. and no one claimed BB has a problem with milennials.
Same data pattern.
Start with a conclusion you just need to assert and torture data into confessing it's the only way to think about it.
New coach, GM and the majority of the roster already overturned and most of the heavy contracts are almost gone.
Maybe they didn’t rip the band-aid off fast enough, but it’s pretty much dangling now. A lot of these ‘best players’ didn’t help this team win except for one fluke year. Six losing years out of seven should tell you what you need to know. The team has had a losing culture for years now, it’s feels fresh to try to establish a new one with Barkley as the face of the franchise, and hopefully Daniel Jones is the goods.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
Yes they made Beckham fucking charge a blindsided Norman. Yes they made him do coke with strippers. Yes they made him say he wasn't so sure about ny after paying him. Yes they made him do dumb shit. Just stop with your dumb hot takes please
Obj is responsible for obj. The Giants are def old school in that they don't like weirdos but they didn't contribute to him acting like a fucking idiot
Funny you just said that. I had a facts vs. opinion argument with my 15-year old son this afternoon.
And if our insider on BBI is saying this.... it has to be true, right?
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Look, the Giants are almost as much to blame for OBJ's conduct as OBJ.
Indeed, OBJ is a self-absorbed, self-involved jerk off. But Jints Central did a horrible job managing his personality. They don't like to deal with personalities that don't fit into the "Giants Way" box. The front office as it is composed is about as far away from the personality of a millenial as possible.
Yes they made Beckham fucking charge a blindsided Norman. Yes they made him do coke with strippers. Yes they made him say he wasn't so sure about ny after paying him. Yes they made him do dumb shit. Just stop with your dumb hot takes please
Obj is responsible for obj. The Giants are def old school in that they don't like weirdos but they didn't contribute to him acting like a fucking idiot
And despite all of that, the Giants still signed OBJ to a humongous contract. They knew exactly what they were dealing with - correct?
Indeed, OBJ is responsible for his own actions. But once we drafted him, enabled his actions, and still re-signed him, we also had some responsibility to help the guy. Maybe allocate some additional resources to make it work. Did we do that? I don't know, but I highly doubt it.
I'm going to make a leap here and suggest the Giants aren't the most progressive team in the league dealing with the changing times...And that is a problem with situations like OBJ.
Okay, I think Corey Ballantine is the latest of many players who would disagree with you on that one.
I don't follow. Ballantine was likely the victim of a crime, being at the wrong place at the wrong time.