First of all happy Mother’s Day to all the mothers and hell even the mother f@& $?3?s on here.
Not making the same mistake like last week this will be the only place I’ll be online untill after it airs. Well maybe some golf clash. I’m sure leaks will be out there as the episode draws closer.
Battle of Mother’s Day the mother of dragons vs “pregnant “ Cersei. Don’t think more than half the episode will be battle but could be epic. I think the death toll will be high this episode since most everyone somehow survived the BoW. Maybe a little foreshadowing but the episode Tywin died was on Father’s Day could his daughter have the same fate tonight?
2. Jaime's arc is fine! Why does everything have to be black and white? He seems to be a big villain in the first seasons/books but then we come to learn that his reputation is not earned. He gradually tries to become a better person, but the one thing in his life he can't outgrow is his love for Cersei. This makes sense to me.
3. In the last 10-12 years, Twitter and social media made everyone an armchair political pundit. Combining social media with Thrones has made everyone a qualified armchair tv/film critic. I look forward to the next skill that social media teaches everybody [/sarcasm]. Btw I'm not really talking about this thread, which has been mostly reasonable on both sides, but everything I'm seeing elsewhere.
That's my one big gripe about this episode. That whole contrived fight scene between Jaime and Euron was completely unnecessary and stupid. Just have Euron die when Dany attacks with Drogon. Jaimie still ends up in the same place with his sister buried under the rubble. The stab wounds weren't necessary to have them trapped and crushed under the red keep.
Why in the world would you have the Golden Company OUTSIDE of the gates when you are defending the city?
It didn't really matter as they all got roasted quickly, but that was just dumb.
My point was simply this: there are plenty of examples throughout history of civilians simply being slaughtered to generate fear.
Eric, not sure if you have seen it but this season HBO does a special 30 min making of segment for each episode where they go through the set design and special effects. For Ep5 they specifically said that the scenes with Arya covered in ash and walking through a burned out KL was inspired by the Dresden bombing.
Were you angry when Tyrion and them washed up to shore the episode before? What is the difference?
For me, ruthlessness unchecked and allowed to run wild will lead to madness.
Ruthless used as a tool and a calculation is more of a psychopathy and eventually, evil.
Quote:
Rising out of the sea miraculously to fight Jaime was a bridge too far. Then him somehow making it to Cercei w two major stab wounds through the mass destruction. just sent people over the top. Totally unsurprising he’s go back to his sister, who is his truelove to me
Were you angry when Tyrion and them washed up to shore the episode before? What is the difference?
The difference is Tyrion is still alive and Euron, who absolutely blows as an actor and character, died right after anyway in a meaningless fight with Jaime.
That is a response to exactly no one on this thread.
My far out theory (maybe I posted it in here) as after seeing all the death and destruction, families torn apart, the mother and child bond, list mostly done (cersei?) maybe she think she is ready to settle down, and she's going to find Gendry.
I still think outside of Jon (who doesn't want it) and obviously Dany, Gendry has the best claim to the throne.
and a Baratheon and Stark on the throne probably makes the most sense at this point.
Dany legitimizing Gendry was maybe a bit of foreshadowing. Instead of winning his favor she created a claim.
And in reality Gendry's claim is probably better than anyone's as a legitimate Robert Baratheon heir.
I feel like that theory makes a ton of sense, so I don't fault anyone for arguing it. With that said, I would be disappointed about that, the person who sits on the Iron throne has to be a major character (Jon/Dany/Sansa/Tyrion etc). It cant be a minor character like Gendry
I think she'll either go back to Winterfell and family or wander Westeros as a knight-errant
Quote:
In comment 14442687 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
Rising out of the sea miraculously to fight Jaime was a bridge too far. Then him somehow making it to Cercei w two major stab wounds through the mass destruction. just sent people over the top. Totally unsurprising he’s go back to his sister, who is his truelove to me
Were you angry when Tyrion and them washed up to shore the episode before? What is the difference?
The difference is Tyrion is still alive and Euron, who absolutely blows as an actor and character, died right after anyway in a meaningless fight with Jaime.
Tyrion also washed up on a large rock outcropping that was (presumably) the closest shoreline to where their ships were. And his ship wasn't set on fire, though he was hit on the head by a beam.
Euron appeared to be burned alive and then coincidentally washed up on a small rock outcrop just as Jamie appeared to be passing by...
Granted if Euron wasn't such a shitty actor and annoying character, the last part wouldn't matter as much.
and as she's told us, she's no longer a little bird.
But having been through what she's been through changed her, so maybe Arya changes as well.
I just can't see Sansa on the throne, she's too whiny for me though it wouldn't be a stretch from a story standpoint.
Brienne as hand of the queen/king?
Not sure if Samwell Tarly has anything left either.
Jon (5-2): he doesn't want to rule, but he's been a reluctant leader the entire story. He has the best claim (son of Rhaegar) and allies that would support him everywhere: Gendry in Storms End, Tyrion if he goes back to Casterly Rock, Sansa in the North and Vale (ironically she might be the most hesitant to support him), Sam with either the maesters or Highgarden, wildlings (FWIW).
Dany (9-1): Takes out her remaining "enemies" and continues the wheel of history
Sansa & Tyrion (20-1): Jon dies or refuses the thrown, the two of them marry (again) to unite the North/South.
Arya & Gendry (50-1): Gendry might have a legitimate claim to the throne, but he was reluctant just to take on Lord of Storms End and Arya's shown no interest in wanting to settle, let alone wanting to rule.
and as she's told us, she's no longer a little bird.
But having been through what she's been through changed her, so maybe Arya changes as well.
I just can't see Sansa on the throne, she's too whiny for me though it wouldn't be a stretch from a story standpoint.
Brienne as hand of the queen/king?
Not sure if Samwell Tarly has anything left either.
If Sansa ends up on the throne, Brienne will lead the Queensguard.
This is completely inaccurate. The scorpions were only effective last week when Dany wasn't on guard and aware that they were there firing at her. Last week, while Dany was flying with her two dragons and not aware that Euron's fleet was right there and she wasn't on guard, Rhaegal was hit with three bolts (and one missed).
At that point, Dany became aware of the scorpions, and from then, she and Drogon weren't touched once. Not when Dany and her dragon veered off, not when she circled back and dove at them, and not when she flew across as countless bolts were fired in her direction from the scorpions.
This week, Dany and her dragon approached the scorpions with awareness and just like last week, they successfully avoided the scorpion bolts.
As for their quick destruction, why wouldn't they be destroyed quickly? They were mounted on wooden frames on wooden ships being attacked by dragon fire. So long as Dany and her dragon weren't hit, there was nothing to suggest that the scorpions would be hard to destroy.
Quote:
still has story left too I guess.
and as she's told us, she's no longer a little bird.
But having been through what she's been through changed her, so maybe Arya changes as well.
I just can't see Sansa on the throne, she's too whiny for me though it wouldn't be a stretch from a story standpoint.
Brienne as hand of the queen/king?
Not sure if Samwell Tarly has anything left either.
If Sansa ends up on the throne, Brienne will lead the Queensguard.
That is what I thought, too. If Sansa is on the throne, would Tyrion be the hand. Can he still be the hand after how awful he has become as Dany's hand?
I also realize things are highly unlikely to end up this "neat" and would be somewhat disappointed if they did.
I also realize things are highly unlikely to end up this "neat" and would be somewhat disappointed if they did.
I also think Dany is going to make a move on Sansa's life this week, which will cause Jon to switch allegiance to Sansa. There is no way after last week, with Sansa knowing the story and her open disdain for Dany that Dany is not going to try to have her arrested and killed.
There's still the Lannister army, which I'm guessing has more survivors than many believe like the Dothraki/Unsullied after the Battle of Winterfell. And I imagine their are minor lords in Casterly Rock still alive.
IMO bittersweet would be something like Arya dying while killing Danny and Drogon to give the throne to Jon or Sansa.
Or Tyrion dying to secure the throne for Jon.
If you believe Jamie and Cersei are dead and euron is dead and the NK is dead and Qyburn and the Mountain are dead then the enemies are limited.
Dany with her heel turn and what remains of her entourage, Bronn I guess (for Tyrion) and who?
Quote:
for Sansa or Jon, assuming Tyrion doesn't die. Though I think if Sansa ends up on the throne it also comes with a marriage to Tyrion.
I also realize things are highly unlikely to end up this "neat" and would be somewhat disappointed if they did.
I also think Dany is going to make a move on Sansa's life this week, which will cause Jon to switch allegiance to Sansa. There is no way after last week, with Sansa knowing the story and her open disdain for Dany that Dany is not going to try to have her arrested and killed.
Dany's definitely going after Sansa, et al in the finale. It's just a question of who survives.
Jon probably tries to act as a mediator (but fails) before his allegiance to his family (Sansa/Arya) wins out. Especially after seeing the carnage Dany unleashed.
Quote:
In comment 14442945 giants#1 said:
Quote:
for Sansa or Jon, assuming Tyrion doesn't die. Though I think if Sansa ends up on the throne it also comes with a marriage to Tyrion.
I also realize things are highly unlikely to end up this "neat" and would be somewhat disappointed if they did.
I also think Dany is going to make a move on Sansa's life this week, which will cause Jon to switch allegiance to Sansa. There is no way after last week, with Sansa knowing the story and her open disdain for Dany that Dany is not going to try to have her arrested and killed.
Dany's definitely going after Sansa, et al in the finale. It's just a question of who survives.
Jon probably tries to act as a mediator (but fails) before his allegiance to his family (Sansa/Arya) wins out. Especially after seeing the carnage Dany unleashed.
The good thing is that Jon has already in effect chosen sides when he disobeyed Dany and told Sansa and Arya the secret of his birth parents. Thus, I do see it as the Starks vs Dany and that Jon sides with the Starks. Thus, it is highly likely that someone is going to die from the Starks side, but that they will ultimately win. One of them will be the king. At this point, though, who tat will be is anyone's guess.
Quote:
Better than actually liking it! Her dragon fighting tactics were so unrealistic! Anyone knows her angle of flight was just off! Pure crap! I’m so smart because I want to find problems with a show that has dragons and giants! Build a moat morons! It obviously will keep the dead out! Didn’t anyone see footage from world war 2? They did the same then!
That is a response to exactly no one on this thread.
Obviously I exaggerated but people keep questioning battle tactics and how some scenes aren't realistic. It's just funny how some things are accepted, like the until being fine with a knife through his eye, but god forbid Euron washed up on shore after the ship was destroyed.
Moreover, its that that the books and the show (early on) had excellent writing focused on character development and dialogue in the context of the unpredictable struggle for power in the kingdom. The last few seasons have been more like a Michael Bey movie than what we saw then.
Take Varys, for example. This is someone whose broad network of spies and allies both in two continents rendered him a secretive survivor and invaluable aide. He successfully orchestrated a near-impossible effort to get Daenerys back to Westeros with sufficient power to retake the Iron Throne. Yet we are supposed to believe he would overtly endorse Jon for the throne in front of a half-dozen witnesses knowing full well he is likely to be roasted alive for it? That's just lazy writing.
I have no issue with Varys plotting against Daenerys, getting discovered, and being roasted alive just like I have no problem with Daenerys going mad and destroying Kings Landing. I have a problem with tee lazy writing and lack of plot development that got us there.
Bran still hasn't "flown" yet (unless birds count). I'm guessing he wargs into Drogon and pulls a kamikaze mission killing Drogon and himself in the process
He is no longer Bran Stark (in his own words), he's the 3ER, I doubt he is considered for the iron throne, though he clearly has the best claim for warden of the north, I doubt he is interested in that either, I think he winds up intertwined with a weirwood tree.
My far out theory (maybe I posted it in here) as after seeing all the death and destruction, families torn apart, the mother and child bond, list mostly done (cersei?) maybe she think she is ready to settle down, and she's going to find Gendry.
I still think outside of Jon (who doesn't want it) and obviously Dany, Gendry has the best claim to the throne.
and a Baratheon and Stark on the throne probably makes the most sense at this point.
Dany legitimizing Gendry was maybe a bit of foreshadowing. Instead of winning his favor she created a claim.
And in reality Gendry's claim is probably better than anyone's as a legitimate Robert Baratheon heir.
I was thinking about this somewhat too. The message I got with all of the footage showing Arya in the chaos was that, "war is hell".
She had the moment with Sandor in which she realized that no, she didn't want to be like him. That's immediately followed by the horror of all of those folks being crushed and burned alive.
Either she "changes her ways" or she uses that as motivation to stop the mother of dragons at all costs. I could see either happening.
Even the scene with the horse suggests her changing her ways by "finding the light" in all of the misery. That is unless you think that they were trying to convey "death rides a pale horse"...
that debate lingers on, but I'd say more often than not it's a coincidence.
Perfect "full circle" ending. A Stark is killed by fire in Kings Landing, causing a Baratheon to lead a revolt, joined by a Stark. Ruler is then killed by a Lannister she trusted.
If Bran - the most useless character in history - takes the Throne, GoT will be the worst show ever.
that debate lingers on, but I'd say more often than not it's a coincidence.
Depending on the translation, its not just a pale horse, its
"I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death;"
I think a horse covered in ashes is more then a coincidence.
Not sure if there's even an iron throne remaining, but if there is I don't really see Gendry sitting on it just because he's such an underdeveloped character as a leader. Tyrion would be my best guess because he's the most practical solution if he survives and if Jon doesn't want it - but does he have any base of power to keep the throne? Once Dany is out of the way perhaps Sansa/Tyrion becomes a thing again since "they won't have the dragon queen" anymore. Arya changing her mind about being a lady and deciding to go to storm's end would make sense too.
Quote:
too "death rides a pale horse" and the whole 4 horseman theory, but does Martin bring many bible verses into his story?
that debate lingers on, but I'd say more often than not it's a coincidence.
Depending on the translation, its not just a pale horse, its
"I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death;"
I think a horse covered in ashes is more then a coincidence.
Either way, Arya coming after Dany did not need a horse of the apocalypse to symbolize it. Arya has been connected to death since season 1 - tighter in later seasons.
Outside of those two, the only way to be king would be through support of a majority of the other houses. It certainly will not be the hated imp or the bastard blacksmith. It will be a Stark.
There are really just the three options: Dany, Jon, or Sansa. Anything outside of those three is a reach at best and silly.
Name names in white font, I'm curious who you're accusing of this. I for one have never visited that or any other spoiler site (other than here when people unintentionally spoil stuff).
Quote:
In comment 14443055 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
too "death rides a pale horse" and the whole 4 horseman theory, but does Martin bring many bible verses into his story?
that debate lingers on, but I'd say more often than not it's a coincidence.
Depending on the translation, its not just a pale horse, its
"I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death;"
I think a horse covered in ashes is more then a coincidence.
Either way, Arya coming after Dany did not need a horse of the apocalypse to symbolize it. Arya has been connected to death since season 1 - tighter in later seasons.
Yup - they brought Arya to KL for a reason and it wasn't just to run through the streets + wreckage. She is the odds on favorite for a number of reasons. She and Sansa having been the most exposed to Cersei's cruelty in the first seasons were the most skeptical of Dany the entire time.