First of all happy Mother’s Day to all the mothers and hell even the mother f@& $?3?s on here.
Not making the same mistake like last week this will be the only place I’ll be online untill after it airs. Well maybe some golf clash. I’m sure leaks will be out there as the episode draws closer.
Battle of Mother’s Day the mother of dragons vs “pregnant “ Cersei. Don’t think more than half the episode will be battle but could be epic. I think the death toll will be high this episode since most everyone somehow survived the BoW. Maybe a little foreshadowing but the episode Tywin died was on Father’s Day could his daughter have the same fate tonight?
As for this episode, it's by far better than every episode this season. I felt Euron/Jaime and Clegane bowl was cheesy. One things that bugs me is that they tout these large armies and then show a couple dozen guys. The golden company was small, same with Jon's ground troops, and Euron went from having this massive fleet to a couple of boats. Ignoring issues stemming from prior seasons, I enjoyed it for what it was. I thought Jaime dying with Cersei was touching. I felt sympathy for her at the end and glad she didn't die alone. Dany's meltdown didn't seem completely out of character. She's always been a shitty leader with a sadistic streak and entitlement issues. Curious how next week plays out
From a story standpoint the last 2 seasons have been a rushed mess lacking any pacing. They made a galactic mistake cutting down the number of episodes - especially since the extra episodes would have likely been all talking/minimal action anyway. Although with the way the writing has been perhaps they did us a favor.
That was extremely entertaining TV but the overall story is building towards a mostly unsatisfying end. I was hoping this final season would deliver 1 more "hold the door" moment but the michael bay comparisons are spot on. I know everyone wants to act like the mad queen thing has been set up appropriately just because she toasted the Tarly's and Varys made some comments here and there but I just don't buy it. What was it the s6 finale when she was telling yara/theon they were going to leave the world better than how they found it?
I’m a sucker for visuals too so some of it was fun to see. But count me as being disappointed by Cercei’s ending. You build up a villain, you expect justice. This was pretty much get hit by a bus or die of old age. I feel like there should be at least some retributative quality to her death.
One thing I don’t understand is who and why rang the bells? Is that a universal (Westerosal?) no mas signal? Jon and (perhaps) Greyworm we’re supposed to pull up when the bells rang but the only way the bells could get rung would be by Cercei’s capitulation (per her conversation with Tyrion) and that brought about through asking for terms or by Jaime convincing her to ring them to surrender. Neither happened and yet someone, presumably someone in authority rang them. That puzzles me.
As they should be. The character they like pulled a complete betrayal of every value that had been repeatedly established over 7 seasons for absolutely no substantiated reasons, simply because some hackish writers wanted to impose it upon the story they usurped.
I liked how they referenced the fucking Princess Bride of all things by having the Hound easily dispatch the other guards before staring down his prey and saying, "I am Sandor Clegane. You are my brother. Prepare to die."
It reminds me of Dep and Eli.
I thought the Cersei/Jaime ending was fitting. People complain when characters like Jorah get heroic deaths, and then complain when characters like Cersei and Jaime get non-heroic deaths. The last 2 seasons haven't been quite as good but it's cool now to hate on Thrones. It's still fantastic tv. I'm sorry everyone on the internet didn't get to write the script and direct all the episodes, I guess.
I guess we will never know what the voice said to Varys when they burned his parts.
Cleganebowl - When the Hound told the Mountain that "he knew who was coming for him" I never thought it was going to be the Hound.
Bran was told that he would fly. I guess there is still time, but I always expected it to be in dragon form, not just as a raven.
Cersi always believed that she would be killed by a sibling. I thought for sure that Arya had come across a dying Jaime, and took his face. I was expecting Arya to cross another name off of her list. Instead we got a finish to the Lanister's that no one expected. So while possibly less satisfying, fitting none the less.
I Tyrion's insisting on Dany's acceptance of surrender at the ringing of the bells, was a plan that he had in place with Cersi. I thought that they would stand down, then the wildfire would erupt, finishing Dany's army, and destroying Kings Landing, and all of the civilians anyway.
And I've always felt that the only way that Jamie could ever really redeem himself is by killing Cersei himself - but him running back to be by her side is pretty consistent with his character. He never stopped loving her. And the kingslayer dying while trying to comfort the queen he helped put in to power is poetic.
Meanwhile, this episode contrasts that sharply with Dany, who now feels completely alone in the world and has seemingly abandoned her own humanity and regard for life. Her transformation in to her father the Mad King is complete as she makes the decision to fulfill his last wish and destroy everyone in Kings landing. The remaining green fire under the city that he was going to use to execute his plan igniting itself served to make clear that Aerys is exactly who she has become.
It’s a little absurd that he wrote the first book nearly 25 years ago and still hasn’t finished the series.
I’d like to read the ending but I can’t really get mad at it if I don’t.
I don’t get this one at all. In my opinion Clarke has been spot on whenever the spotlight has been on her. I don’t know what you expect.
But it is obvious to me Clarke polarizes people’s emotions.....you either love her (like me) or you dislike her (like you).
The state of play at the end of Episode 5 would basically be the same, except Dany's culpability and madness would be less clear, forcing Jon, Davos and Tyrion to deal with some moral ambiguity in Episode 6.
I think Arya killing Greyworm will be the way she can get close to Dany since he is the one always by her side. Arya obviously takes his face one last time to accomplish this task.
The drawback to this plan: do we really want ARYA to kill both the Night King and the Mad Queen? Is that too much Arya? I don’t believe they will want Jon Snow to be the guy who kills her because then it may appear he is nefarious too.
So, then the next question becomes, who will rule over the 7 k8mgdoms?
Jon
Tyrion
Sansa
?
Does that make it the Irony Throne?
I'm here all week, folks.
I liked Arya walking away from it.
I liked Jamie and Cersei alone, frightened below the castle.
I thought the actress who played Dani was terrific this episode, think about it, she's really alone. Even her man is now rebuking her, she trusts no one anymore, she was just betrayed by Varys.
I wanted Sandor to that thing to the eyes to his brother.
It was a mess but an enjoyable mess for me.
that said the complaining is more annoying than the praise. like it great, don't like it great. it's a f-ing TV show.
I still watch because of the investment, first the books, then the shows and at it's worst it's certainly not Dexter. The drop-off is more like the Wire season 5.
Anyway, as I said previously Dany's heel turn was predictable and expected. Sitting on her dragon, the city fell, surrendered, she said she'd call off the attack. Jon, Grey Worm and the rest of the unsullied faced the golden company and kingsguard who dropped their weapons, pivotal moment, and Dany went full targaryen.
the heel turn that I thought was forced was Jamie. the speed in which he went from "I have to help save the realm" to "oh my god I have to save Cersei" seemed forced. His character arc from first villain in the story, to noble knight, back to villain didn't really seem true to the story to me.
So now it's come down to a bat shit crazy Targaryen assuming the iron throne and Starks, Lannisters, and Baratheon's (among others) banding together to remove them. Seems like the story will end how it started. Plot devices at this point may not be fully developed and quality is not season 1 - 4, but it's still a riveting show for many.
That dragon has some stamina! how much napalm came out of his mouth?
Could we see a showdown with Dany and Jon a la Disney -
Not a Pony or dog but a dragon having to choose between two people? Dany ordering the dragon to fry Jon and the dragon filled with indecision?
Tormund - does he reappear - during the Jon/Tormund goodbye scene he hinted he may be back
The state of play at the end of Episode 5 would basically be the same, except Dany's culpability and madness would be less clear, forcing Jon, Davos and Tyrion to deal with some moral ambiguity in Episode 6.
Yeah, that would require a nuance the show used to have but no longer does in exchange for booms and "OMG SUBVERSION OF EXPECTATIONS". Your idea is fantastic. It's a shame the show runners and writers can no longer pull that kind of thing off.
Dany's turn was about as telegraphed as you can get and still somehow made no sense. Why wait until you have literally won everything you've been trying to attain for 7 years to snap like that? They should have given her a reason, in that moment, to torch the city.
If she still had two dragons and watched one of them die at that moment...
If Missandei wasn't executed until that moment...
If the surrender was a ploy by Cersei who lured her troops in before setting off another wildfire bomb...
If she surveyed the field and saw the common people fighting against her troops (Killing Grey Worm?)...
So many possibilities to give some plausible reason for someone who sees herself as a champion of the people, breaker of chains, blah blah blah to go apeshit and "burn them all" at the moment of their victory and the culmination of everything they've worked so hard for.
It’s a little absurd that he wrote the first book nearly 25 years ago and still hasn’t finished the series.
I have a feeling we are going to get a release date for Winds of Winter shortly after Game of Thrones wraps up. The one thing that’s been obvious about Martin over the last 10 years is that he loves the spotlight this show has brought him, and now that it’s over the best way to stay in it is to release the books.
I’d like to read the ending but I can’t really get mad at it if I don’t.
I'm hoping he's as pissed about how they handled the last 2 seasons and it provides some extra motivation for him to finally finish the books!
To some extent Dany may be becoming the Mad QUeen, but I think there is more of a calculation that is happening, rather than she is burning innocent people because she is crazy.
Disliked: Euron v Jaimie; I agree w/Bluebeard WRT one final push was needed for Dany to snap; Tyrion freeing Jaimie wasn't anticipated by Dany
Meh: Clegane Bowl; Jaimie / Cersie; 45 mins of Drogon burning the city
I think Arya killing Greyworm will be the way she can get close to Dany since he is the one always by her side. Arya obviously takes his face one last time to accomplish this task.
The drawback to this plan: do we really want ARYA to kill both the Night King and the Mad Queen? Is that too much Arya? I don’t believe they will want Jon Snow to be the guy who kills her because then it may appear he is nefarious too.
So, then the next question becomes, who will rule over the 7 k8mgdoms?
Jon
Tyrion
Sansa
?
There is a zero percent chance that Jon does not kill Dany.
On a side note, I wonder how they are going to address Jamie and Cersi "disappearing"... no one should ever know what became of them. They would never find the bodies. "Did they get away? Did they die?"
On a side note, I wonder how they are going to address Jamie and Cersi "disappearing"... no one should ever know what became of them. They would never find the bodies. "Did they get away? Did they die?"
Arya would know.
I think so as well. Jorah was her moral compass IMO. Once she lost him there was nobody to talk sense into her since she obviously doesn't trust Tyrion.
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I dont even think I counted more than 10 on screen at the same time. That first push there were like 7 Dothraki on horses and then the soldiers were running up right behind them. There definitely wasn't a lot of them.
Right after Drogon blows up the front gate they charge and there was a shit ton of Dothraki charging. I turned to my wife and asked how the hell are there so many Dothraki there when they were basically wiped out at Winterfell?
I thought the Cersei/Jaime ending was fitting. People complain when characters like Jorah get heroic deaths, and then complain when characters like Cersei and Jaime get non-heroic deaths. The last 2 seasons haven't been quite as good but it's cool now to hate on Thrones. It's still fantastic tv. I'm sorry everyone on the internet didn't get to write the script and direct all the episodes, I guess.
This. The butt hurt is real.
I actually wonder if this comes into play with Tyrion versus Dany. "Did you help them escape?" (Which in fact, he did try to do).
He was an exiled knight (actually ordered killed by Ned) and a spy for Varys, and almost led to Dany being killed and her whereabouts known, now he's her most trusted confidante.
Just shows you how desperate she is for someone to be loyal to her that he's her most loyal subject (after of course freed slave/interpreter missandei). another Targaryen trait is trusting no one.
Tyrion and Varys as advisors? holy shit she's an awful judge of character.
I actually wonder if this comes into play with Tyrion versus Dany. "Did you help them escape?" (Which in fact, he did try to do).
I think Tyrion will be the one to figure it out and announce it to Dany once he discovers the boat that he left for them to escape is still there.
Honestly I was expecting a close battle with Dany winning and possibly being killed in the process. That was as one sided a fight as we have seen and that is with Dany losing most of her army at the Battle of Winterfell.
Loved the twist of Dany turning Mad. Sets up one last Targaryen battle for the Throne (or what’s left of it). Hoping Bran has a part to play in the last part, maybe warging into Drogon and taking him out of play in batttle). One thing I think still rings true to my earlier predictions is that the 7 kingdoms will all come together to support one ruler, I think they come all to support Jon as part of Varys last efforts. Dany is alone in Westeros with an army of foreigner warriors. Jon will have to kill her.
Jon on the other hand has been through many trials and has consistently shown that he is level headed.
I actually wonder if this comes into play with Tyrion versus Dany. "Did you help them escape?" (Which in fact, he did try to do).
No, I was thinking maybe their faces could wind up in the hall of faces.
I forget if the killer (or someone) needs to actually skin their faces and place them there like Arya did the waif or if they just show up, but similar to how Arya was Walder Frey, should could use their faces.
I'd be surprised if not locating the actual bodies of two people in a city Dany completed destroyed leads to her "final" betrayal by Tyrion, but at this point anything is possible.
I can't follow all this stuff.
Honestly I was expecting a close battle with Dany winning and possibly being killed in the process. That was as one sided a fight as we have seen and that is with Dany losing most of her army at the Battle of Winterfell.
Imagine what the three dragons would have done!
I can't follow all this stuff.
Targaryen's are not fire proof.
History is filled with "inevitable" holocausts simply being delayed. Game of Thrones was never going to have a "happy" ending.
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fire proof? So Dany can try to fry him and then freak when he doesn't burn up? Same with Jon, no?
I can't follow all this stuff.
Targaryen's are not fire proof.
Some are, like Daenerys.
Honestly I was expecting a close battle with Dany winning and possibly being killed in the process. That was as one sided a fight as we have seen and that is with Dany losing most of her army at the Battle of Winterfell.
I agree with this - for so much of the past 2-3 seasons, Dany has been held back from unleashing their full power by everyone around her, all trying her to win the war via politics, not fire and blood.
Olenna's advice to her proved prescient - she finally stopped listening to her advisors and went full nuclear.
Of course, that was apparently how the whole story sets up the end game - to win the war, she had to become the thing she professed for so long to be fighting against.