First of all happy Mother’s Day to all the mothers and hell even the mother f@& $?3?s on here.
Not making the same mistake like last week this will be the only place I’ll be online untill after it airs. Well maybe some golf clash. I’m sure leaks will be out there as the episode draws closer.
Battle of Mother’s Day the mother of dragons vs “pregnant “ Cersei. Don’t think more than half the episode will be battle but could be epic. I think the death toll will be high this episode since most everyone somehow survived the BoW. Maybe a little foreshadowing but the episode Tywin died was on Father’s Day could his daughter have the same fate tonight?
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In comment 14441517 RobCarpenter said:
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In comment 14441478 Jay on the Island said:
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and his army or are they just going to leave it alone?
Answers in terms of what? His army is gone.
Seriously? What was the meaning of the repeated circular pattern that he kept leaving behind. Who was he originally?
And why did the Children of the Forest create such a horrible monster?
the First Men invaded north of the wall and would cut down their trees (sacred weirwood trees). the children of the forest were peaceful nature worshippers and almost waif-like in appearance and couldn't really defend themselves without magic and sorcery, so they created the Night King (again only in the show) to defend themselves.
I cancel my subscription to HBO.
Game of Thrones Recap: For Whom the Bells Toll - ( New Window )
I did. I thought Dany was going to lose her 3 "children" just like Cersei did.
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I hope we’ll see much more of her in the years to come. That scene with the horse was great.
I doubt it. She doesn't have the look of a lead actress and that's basically all you need in this day and age. Talent be damned.
Look at the best actress nominees for 2019 and get back to me.
Sticky Bandits!
Classic!
I think when this is all over, and we rewatch the series again after knowing how it ends, we'll see how Dany's worst impulses were tempered by others around her.
I don't see it that way. There are some scenes that could be stretched and distorted to be a foundation for this turn: those in which she orders her dragons to burn a tyrant, or the scene in which she locks her handmaiden in a vault for her betrayal, or where she burns those who refuse to bend the knee. None of them serve as evidence that she'd eventually abandon all care for innocents and lay waste to an entire city that had already just surrendered.
At this rate they ought to reveal Jon to be a child molester, on the grounds that he once got close to Olly only to be betrayed by him.
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I think when this is all over, and we rewatch the series again after knowing how it ends, we'll see how Dany's worst impulses were tempered by others around her.
I don't see it that way. There are some scenes that could be stretched and distorted to be a foundation for this turn: those in which she orders her dragons to burn a tyrant, or the scene in which she locks her handmaiden in a vault for her betrayal, or where she burns those who refuse to bend the knee. None of them serve as evidence that she'd eventually abandon all care for innocents and lay waste to an entire city that had already just surrendered.
At this rate they ought to reveal Jon to be a child molester, on the grounds that he once got close to Olly only to be betrayed by him.
I feel like GRRM is laughing his ass off replying to internet comments anonymously somewhere insisting that the writers should have spent more time writing a better ending.
I don't see it that way. There are some scenes that could be stretched and distorted to be a foundation for this turn: those in which she orders her dragons to burn a tyrant, or the scene in which she locks her handmaiden in a vault for her betrayal, or where she burns those who refuse to bend the knee. None of them serve as evidence that she'd eventually abandon all care for innocents and lay waste to an entire city that had already just surrendered.
At this rate they ought to reveal Jon to be a child molester, on the grounds that he once got close to Olly only to be betrayed by him.
I'm with Eric here. I've been rewatching the earlier seasons and there is way more foreshadowing of her turn, then I remembered:
1. Threatens to return and burn Qarth down when they initially prohibit her and her Dothraki "horde" (there's like 20 left at this point) from entering.
2. After she takes Yunkai, the masters in Mereen nail 163 child slaves to crosses along the route from Yunkai to Mereen. Then, after the masters in Mereen surrender with minimal blood loss, Dani nails 163 masters to crosses throughout the city, depsite Jorah and Sir Barriston advising against it.
3. When she's ruling in Mereen and hears about the former Yunkai slaves basically using force and re-imposing slavery on the weaker slaves, she initially sends the 2nd Sons to squash the "rebellion" before Jorah is able to talk some sense into her.
Again, they may as well turn Jon into a child murderer and say, "You're surprised? He's Targaryen after all... and let's not forget he executed Olly."
I agree with this review. Sepinwall's so good, he summed up basically what I think about the episode.
I'd like to believe he's got a ton of content written, and I don't think he wants anyone other than himself to publish the end of it. I think we get some news this year with the show ending.
I very much hope you are right. And I've been waiting a long, long time. But when he wrote the first three books he had an idea of how it would play out, even if he didn't have the specific scenes written. My guess is that what we saw is part of what GRRM imagined for King's Landing - with Dany's dragons scorching it - though the details are undoubtedly different.
It’s one thing to be ruthless, as Daenerys has always been; it’s another to be truly cruel and evil. Daenerys’s actions in “The Bells” were the latter. She instigated a completely unnecessary mass killing, a vicious act that is entirely outside her established character. Maybe Dany, who has much of the same foreshadowing in George R.R. Martin’s books, was always destined to become the Mad Queen—it just doesn’t make sense for it to happen without the show demonstrating any internal conflict or nuance. Yes, Daenerys recently lost two of her dragons in Rhaegal and Viserion, two of her closest friends in Jorah and Missandei, and Jon’s affections. All of that adds fuel to her rage, but it’s not clear what sparks it. If Dany had caused so much collateral damage as a byproduct of her quest for the throne, her heel turn would at least have been consistent with her character. Instead, she blindly kills thousands with no clear goal in mind. Say what you will about Dany’s inherent tyrannical tendencies, but murdering innocent children and families in their homes has never been who she is. The broad strokes may have been suggested earlier, but the specifics came out of nowhere.
The Unearned Madness of Daenerys Targaryen - ( New Window )
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In comment 14441522 Eric from BBI said:
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I think when this is all over, and we rewatch the series again after knowing how it ends, we'll see how Dany's worst impulses were tempered by others around her.
I don't see it that way. There are some scenes that could be stretched and distorted to be a foundation for this turn: those in which she orders her dragons to burn a tyrant, or the scene in which she locks her handmaiden in a vault for her betrayal, or where she burns those who refuse to bend the knee. None of them serve as evidence that she'd eventually abandon all care for innocents and lay waste to an entire city that had already just surrendered.
At this rate they ought to reveal Jon to be a child molester, on the grounds that he once got close to Olly only to be betrayed by him.
I feel like GRRM is laughing his ass off replying to internet comments anonymously somewhere insisting that the writers should have spent more time writing a better ending.
He has had 25 years to write the ending and still hasn't done it.
Skimming through this thread, one would think every post was written by Greg from LI.
Skimming through this thread, one would think every post was written by Greg from LI.
You sound like the possessive one.
People are criticizing mediocrity. Deal with it.
Skimming through this thread, one would think every post was written by Greg from LI.
Could cut and paste comments from the Sopranos ending here.
both true, though they were still able to hit some high points after they ran out of his material. The ending of s6 and "hold the door" in particular. Just unfortunate there haven't been very many of those in s7 & s8.
Skimming through this thread, one would think every post was written by Greg from LI.
I agree completely. All I read is bitching and whining. I thought Episode 5 was one of the greatest TV shows I have ever seen. It had intrigue, drama, action, and was extremely well done.
The problem is that all these internet fans think they know a better way to end it, so whatever other alternative happens it sucks. Also the over analysis is crazy. I've seen "fans" actually going frame by frame trying to prove that GOT screwed up the KL set, and that they were actually showing something else.
enjoy the show, its great.
Skimming through this thread, one would think every post was written by Greg from LI.
And while HBO is making money hand over fist, i'm not getting my money's worth. Think about that before you lecture the people who don't like it as much as they once did.
And I don't even need perfection, or close to it. Much of the last 2 seasons have been absolutely laughable. There is an in-between from laughable to perfect, i'm sure you know that.
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have turned into such possessive, miserable whiners. It happens with virtually every show, though. A show create an amazing universe and epic for seasons, and as it gets funneled towards the end and plot lines have to be tied up, it's never perfect enough for many of the fans.
Skimming through this thread, one would think every post was written by Greg from LI.
And while HBO is making money hand over fist, i'm not getting my money's worth. Think about that before you lecture the people who don't like it as much as they once did.
And I don't even need perfection, or close to it. Much of the last 2 seasons have been absolutely laughable. There is an in-between from laughable to perfect, i'm sure you know that.
I pay $15/month for HBO..i feel with all their shows and new movies on saturday nights I get plenty for my money
Never understand why people think that things are above criticism. Whether its food you order at a restaurant, quality of the teams you root for, movies you watch, etc. - why on earth should I simply accept everything as good, or not needing of improvement?
By the way, the season is getting panned everywhere, its hardly just a few posters on BBI.
But as those paths start converging and you come to an end, there's far less room for the complete shockers (Ned's beheading, red wedding, etc).
That said, there's also plenty of things that they've rushed these last 2 seasons and other areas where they went for the stunning visuals rather than the more strategic play (Dothraki sacrifice). A fair amount of effort was wasted on Euron for some reason too. Would've been less "backlash" if Rhaegar had died in the NK battle (many thought he did) rather than sacrifice him just to show Euron loaded his fleet with some scorpions. Or they could've built up the final moments before Dany went mad better, like one final close call for Drogon (her last child) after the bells rang.
They're finishing the "horse", but it's missing a lot of the little details that made GOT special.
"absolutely laughable" for two seasons? Come on.
My comment has nothing to do with thinking that things are above criticism. For several seasons, the show has had issues with pacing, plot holes, and stupid characters doing stupid things all because they couldn't take two seconds to ask the other character what was going on. Flaws with the show are nothing new.
But people are more possessive now. It's the final season and the final episodes. I't human nature to to be more hypersensitive to what is going on in the final episodes. It's like being more sensitive to a player's flaws or poor tendencies late in the game or in a playoff game than at any other point.
I just think those frustrations and criticisms are having an outsized effect on the quality of the episodes themselves as a whole.
However, I read some things today that have convinced me this is GRRM's ending and he cleverly planted foreshadows about it in the books he has already written. The major difference of course is he is a far superior writer to the showrunners and it's not even close. The justification for certain events will make much more sense in the source material when and if it is ever released.
But I'll always look back at Season 7, Episode 6: Beyond the Wall at the turning point of this series. An absolutely laughable plot line designed to get the NK a dragon that was disguised as an attempt to get Cersei to join the war against the undead, a war that they end up not even needing her for.
All down hill from there.
But I'll always look back at Season 7, Episode 6: Beyond the Wall at the turning point of this series. An absolutely laughable plot line designed to get the NK a dragon that was disguised as an attempt to get Cersei to join the war against the undead, a war that they end up not even needing her for.
All down hill from there.
Well they would have needed their help had it not been for the unplanned intervention of Arya.
It is absolutely fair to contextualize how much harder their jobs got once they went beyond the source material. But at the same time they took more time to write this past season and reduced the number of total episodes. They were never going to please everyone but these past 2 seasons have underwhelmed on a plot/character level far more than I thought they would.
His whole character is that he's the kingslayer, but his back story is that he was forced to kill the mad king to save the innocent people of the city. So the writers then have him admit to Tyrion in the tent that he doesn't care about the people of the city and never has. uh...what? huh?
What was the point of traveling to winterfell? To take Brienne's virginity? And then to go back to Cersei after finding out that she sent Bronn to kill you? Huh?
It is absolutely fair to contextualize how much harder their jobs got once they went beyond the source material. But at the same time they took more time to write this past season and reduced the number of total episodes. They were never going to please everyone but these past 2 seasons have underwhelmed on a plot/character level far more than I thought they would.
Well said. That's how I feel as well
I imagine the former will outnumber the latter 20 to 1?
But I'll always look back at Season 7, Episode 6: Beyond the Wall at the turning point of this series. An absolutely laughable plot line designed to get the NK a dragon that was disguised as an attempt to get Cersei to join the war against the undead, a war that they end up not even needing her for.
All down hill from there.
Yeah it was ridiculous.
I can understand Tyrion with his blindspot for Cersi buying it, but why did anyone else think the wight would sway her? Anyone familiar with her would know she'd probably be ecstatic to see the North wiped out.
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in the past two seasons, more than the previous 6 combined in my opinion.
But I'll always look back at Season 7, Episode 6: Beyond the Wall at the turning point of this series. An absolutely laughable plot line designed to get the NK a dragon that was disguised as an attempt to get Cersei to join the war against the undead, a war that they end up not even needing her for.
All down hill from there.
Well they would have needed their help had it not been for the unplanned intervention of Arya.
No additional help would have made a shred of difference with the NK being able to raise the dead whenever he wanted. His army was infinity. The only 2 things that would have made a difference were:
1. The magic of the wall (contrived plot mentioned above)
2. The NK's desire to go after Bran (which has been glossed over in the show)
His whole character is that he's the kingslayer, but his back story is that he was forced to kill the mad king to save the innocent people of the city. So the writers then have him admit to Tyrion in the tent that he doesn't care about the people of the city and never has. uh...what? huh?
What was the point of traveling to winterfell? To take Brienne's virginity? And then to go back to Cersei after finding out that she sent Bronn to kill you? Huh?
Stop it! You're being unfair!
However, I read some things today that have convinced me this is GRRM's ending and he cleverly planted foreshadows about it in the books he has already written. The major difference of course is he is a far superior writer to the showrunners and it's not even close. The justification for certain events will make much more sense in the source material when and if it is ever released.
Nah, again my problems with episodes #3 and #4 were there were better ways to get from point A to point B in the storyline. Some would claim these things are insignificant, but I just found them annoying and distracting. They've been well-documented and mainly focus a lack of realism (again, I realize this is a fantasy show). Want to kill the second dragon? Great, but that was a stupid way to have it die. Want to have an ultra-cool Battle of Winterfell with the undead? Great, but make it more plausible. (I actually saw an excellent YouTube video this past week on how the military tactics used for the given technology of the time were simply way off).
My other issue was episode #1. It was weak.
I enjoyed #2 and #5. And I'm hoping #5 was an indication that #6 will finish this with a bang.
I think most people seem to also agree that much of this season felt rushed. I wish they had slowed it down a bit and added 2-4 more episodes.
But back to your point, I don't have a problem with the character arcs or how various characters have died. In fact, I think some of the way they've handled these have been great. Some predictable (i.e., Jorah, the Hound, Theon) and others not so much (Cersi and Jamie). I thought the way Cersi and Jamie went out was excellent. (And sets them up for a Dany meltdown if they choose).