First of all happy Mother’s Day to all the mothers and hell even the mother f@& $?3?s on here.
Not making the same mistake like last week this will be the only place I’ll be online untill after it airs. Well maybe some golf clash. I’m sure leaks will be out there as the episode draws closer.
Battle of Mother’s Day the mother of dragons vs “pregnant “ Cersei. Don’t think more than half the episode will be battle but could be epic. I think the death toll will be high this episode since most everyone somehow survived the BoW. Maybe a little foreshadowing but the episode Tywin died was on Father’s Day could his daughter have the same fate tonight?
"For Dany, it's either burn everyone or pout with another cup of Starbucks."
Thank you sir.
I thought the Sopranos ending was pretty conclusive Tony died no? They talked about getting shot before and what dying was like and how its all black. I wish the people in charge of the show weren't so fucking coy about it for years though.
An infinitely better ending is Jamie learning that Euron slept with Cersi, and he kills her under the crypt as a crime of passion before they both die.
But they fucking blew it.
I loved the way they went out. But I knew it would draw a lot of criticism. They came into the world together and went out of it together. The kingdom literally fell down upon their heads. No one really knows if they are dead or alive. It wasn't predictable (everyone thought Cersi would be taken out by one of the other characters directly... I found this more believable).
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through the whole thread, but am I the only person who really thought they blew it with Jamie/Cersi?
An infinitely better ending is Jamie learning that Euron slept with Cersi, and he kills her under the crypt as a crime of passion before they both die.
But they fucking blew it.
I loved the way they went out. But I knew it would draw a lot of criticism. They came into the world together and went out of it together. The kingdom literally fell down upon their heads. No one really knows if they are dead or alive. It wasn't predictable (everyone thought Cersi would be taken out by one of the other characters directly... I found this more believable).
I like how they went out as well. People want Cersei to die a more satisfying death because she is an evil bitch. Fuck that, This is game of thrones! Kinda wish she just took some poison with Jaime and died peacefully.
Except for a few northern lords, nobody's ever heard of Jon Snow.
Yea that's one thing that bothered me into buying into her isolation. Turns out she still has plenty of dothraki and unsullied. She even has the worst character on the show faithfully by her side (greyworm). Jon Snow has part of what's left of the decimated north.
The coin flip was a line from the book, but I think any Targ is capable of turning on the crazy. Viserys was originally kind, but years of begging and being mocked made him insane. Aerys was good ruler at first even without Tywin, but he became jealous and paranoid and he just kept snowballing. All Dany needed was a catalyst
She wanted the thrown. Anything that got in her way was going to be done away with.
Fine, but they sure as hell didn't sell the transition from that to "Anything that gets out of her way will still be done away with."
I hope they expose other characters to the same degree of abrupt character change. They should make Bron into a hard drinking partier next episode, for example. Why not? He used to climb things for the thrill of it, remember?
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through the whole thread, but am I the only person who really thought they blew it with Jamie/Cersi?
An infinitely better ending is Jamie learning that Euron slept with Cersi, and he kills her under the crypt as a crime of passion before they both die.
But they fucking blew it.
I loved the way they went out. But I knew it would draw a lot of criticism. They came into the world together and went out of it together. The kingdom literally fell down upon their heads. No one really knows if they are dead or alive. It wasn't predictable (everyone thought Cersi would be taken out by one of the other characters directly... I found this more believable).
My issue is less with Cersi and more with Jamie.
They spent 7.5 seasons of a character arc which sees him go from pompous evil POS, he then finally tuns, fights for the living, sleeps with Brienne, and then just undoes his entire character arc in 90 minutes. Such bad writing.
If there's actually a let's-sit-down-and-talk-about-this-with-my-court opportunity for her to do so in the next episode, that would be even more absurd than the last episode's turn.
And the 3rd betrayal seemed tame, just didn't buy her snapping into madness. This needed several episodes, or even a full seasons to build towards. Which is why the white walkers should have been dealt with last season - they could have focused a more believable character transition in season 8.
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In comment 14442069 Jon in NYC said:
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through the whole thread, but am I the only person who really thought they blew it with Jamie/Cersi?
An infinitely better ending is Jamie learning that Euron slept with Cersi, and he kills her under the crypt as a crime of passion before they both die.
But they fucking blew it.
I loved the way they went out. But I knew it would draw a lot of criticism. They came into the world together and went out of it together. The kingdom literally fell down upon their heads. No one really knows if they are dead or alive. It wasn't predictable (everyone thought Cersi would be taken out by one of the other characters directly... I found this more believable).
My issue is less with Cersi and more with Jamie.
They spent 7.5 seasons of a character arc which sees him go from pompous evil POS, he then finally tuns, fights for the living, sleeps with Brienne, and then just undoes his entire character arc in 90 minutes. Such bad writing.
Meh, I don't see Jaime's resolution as invalidating his episodes of the past few seasons. His attachment to Cersei seems in-addition-to rather than replacing the rest of his character development. Jaime seems to have no interest in the politics of King's Landing or anywhere else, but he's not going to let the love of his life die on her own when it's her time to die.
Link - ( New Window )
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I don't personally see the parallel. Kings Landing had surrendered, it wasn't a punishment like the crucifixion or a threat like in Qarth or wherever that was.
This was a slaughter. Everything she had worked for was hers and she made the decision to destroy the innocent. I'm not sure you'll find much foreshadowing for that.
And I'm not against the heel turn in general. I was all for a huge twist like this. But is this even a twist at this point?
That's just the writers screwing up some of the little details (again). They could've done something like having Cersei hide some scorpions among the civilians (well within Cersei's character to sacrifice civilians) and then having one of those scorpions shoot at and land a glancing blow on Drogon after the bells have chimed. Then Dany, worried about losing her last child, goes mad...
I mentioned a similar situation earlier in the thread. And they could have easily set it up in an earlier scene when Tyrion asks her to call off the attack if the bells started ringing. She could have agreed, but if they keep fighting after the bells ring she will burn them to the ground.
That would have setup a more justifiable turn IMO
My wife thought he was going back to King's Landing to kill her. I never thought that. I felt he was going back to die with her.
Just wait til next week starts off by having Dany kill Roberts Bastard (the one she just named Lord) since he is a threat.
When Ned Stark is talking about Jon Arryn's death in season one he says to the Grand Maester that poison is a womans weapon. Grand Maester Pycelle responded "Yes, Women, cravens, and Eunuchs. Did you know Lord Varys is a eunuch?"
Just wait til next week starts off by having Dany kill Roberts Bastard (the one she just named Lord) since he is a threat.
I had a feeling that's where Arya was headed. they made such a point of showing her with the commoners, the mothers and children and the sadness/devasation, I thought once she jumped on that horse she'd be headed to find Gendry.
When Ned Stark is talking about Jon Arryn's death in season one he says to the Grand Maester that poison is a womans weapon. Grand Maester Pycelle responded "Yes, Women, cravens, and Eunuchs. Did you know Lord Varys is a eunuch?"
Yes, it was clear, no risk no reward.
That article says the following:
That is not a "great" explanation.
I guess it makes sense from HBO’s point of view. Odds are there are a lot of people who don’t stick through to the end if they already got the conclusion from the books. The only reason I watch is because I couldn’t wait any longer for Martin to finish, and wanted to see the ending for myself rather than have it spoiled on the internet or over hearing someone discuss it.
Books already finished? - ( New Window )
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The Targaryans will be sitting on the iron throne. The entire purpose was for them to regain the crown and that's how it will end. The Starks never come out on top. The way Martin has show to not give a damn about how the fans feel so far, tells me he will have no problem making a "bad" character the King/Queen.
Just wait til next week starts off by having Dany kill Roberts Bastard (the one she just named Lord) since he is a threat.
I had a feeling that's where Arya was headed. they made such a point of showing her with the commoners, the mothers and children and the sadness/devasation, I thought once she jumped on that horse she'd be headed to find Gendry.
Or to Sansa. She probably knows that Sansa will be one of Dany's next targets for trying to undermine her.
When Ned Stark is talking about Jon Arryn's death in season one he says to the Grand Maester that poison is a womans weapon. Grand Maester Pycelle responded "Yes, Women, cravens, and Eunuchs. Did you know Lord Varys is a eunuch?"
Wait? What? How do you know that?
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who didn't realize that Varys was trying to poison Dany? That's why he asked his little spy if she ate yet.
When Ned Stark is talking about Jon Arryn's death in season one he says to the Grand Maester that poison is a womans weapon. Grand Maester Pycelle responded "Yes, Women, cravens, and Eunuchs. Did you know Lord Varys is a eunuch?"
Wait? What? How do you know that?
I thought it was clear based on their conversation, the girl said Dany's "people" were watching her closely and Varys' said "the greater the risk the greater the reward" Varys was definitely trying to poison her.
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In comment 14442161 bradshaw44 said:
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The Targaryans will be sitting on the iron throne. The entire purpose was for them to regain the crown and that's how it will end. The Starks never come out on top. The way Martin has show to not give a damn about how the fans feel so far, tells me he will have no problem making a "bad" character the King/Queen.
Just wait til next week starts off by having Dany kill Roberts Bastard (the one she just named Lord) since he is a threat.
I had a feeling that's where Arya was headed. they made such a point of showing her with the commoners, the mothers and children and the sadness/devasation, I thought once she jumped on that horse she'd be headed to find Gendry.
Or to Sansa. She probably knows that Sansa will be one of Dany's next targets for trying to undermine her.
Hell, if they're going to make this whole Dany-likes-to-roast-everyone thing permanent and not a PMS symptom, she may be heading back to Winterfell to help prepare its defenses against a full on attack.
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In comment 14442170 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 14442161 bradshaw44 said:
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The Targaryans will be sitting on the iron throne. The entire purpose was for them to regain the crown and that's how it will end. The Starks never come out on top. The way Martin has show to not give a damn about how the fans feel so far, tells me he will have no problem making a "bad" character the King/Queen.
Just wait til next week starts off by having Dany kill Roberts Bastard (the one she just named Lord) since he is a threat.
I had a feeling that's where Arya was headed. they made such a point of showing her with the commoners, the mothers and children and the sadness/devasation, I thought once she jumped on that horse she'd be headed to find Gendry.
Or to Sansa. She probably knows that Sansa will be one of Dany's next targets for trying to undermine her.
Hell, if they're going to make this whole Dany-likes-to-roast-everyone thing permanent and not a PMS symptom, she may be heading back to Winterfell to help prepare its defenses against a full on attack.
Just my guess, Dany assumes what's left of the iron throne or goes back to the Iron Islands.
I don't think she's going on attack to hunt down anyone.
I think she will now become the hunted.
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the show before this seasons. This article does a great job of explaining what I said before. They have been setting this up for years. Shes a narcissist with a genetic predisposition for insanity. Link - ( New Window )
That article says the following:
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The burning of King's Landing, then, is no different than the burning of Mirri in the first season.
That is not a "great" explanation.
The article goes into it more than that one comparison. Dany takes great pleasure in killing and torturing her enemies in ridiculous, torturous ways. Compare that to Jon Snow who abhors having to kills his captive enemies.
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who didn't realize that Varys was trying to poison Dany? That's why he asked his little spy if she ate yet.
When Ned Stark is talking about Jon Arryn's death in season one he says to the Grand Maester that poison is a womans weapon. Grand Maester Pycelle responded "Yes, Women, cravens, and Eunuchs. Did you know Lord Varys is a eunuch?"
Wait? What? How do you know that?
I don't know why it didn't hit me last night because it's so obvious. Obviously he doesn't give a shit if she's eating or not as he is planning on killing her.
Better laid out than how i could - ( New Window )
Yeah, and for Exhibit A it reminds us that she killed the witch who put her husband in a coma and killed her unborn baby.
Not sure that ought to convince the jury that she was well on her way to being a sadistic war criminal.
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that deep down inside she has shown signs of being a blood thirsty lunatic.
Yeah, and for Exhibit A it reminds us that she killed the witch who put her husband in a coma and killed her unborn baby.
Not sure that ought to convince the jury that she was well on her way to being a sadistic war criminal.
The point is to show where it all begins. She takes on a slave and acts like the slave should be forever grateful for it. She reminds her that she didn't save her from shit, she was raped and her village was burned down to the ground.
After re-watching, for sure Varys was trying to poison her. Why else would have have that conversation with a girl who works in the kitchen? Why else would he tell her "the greater the risk the greater the reward?"
Dany lost her family as a baby, lost her brother, lost her husband and love of her life, lost her unborn baby, lost two of her Dragons who she felt were her children, lost her closest friends in Mormont and Sandy. She then loses her love in Jon Snow who she feels betrays her. She can't rule the 7 kingdoms anymore through love like she got via freeing slaves. She says it... I will have to rule through fear. Meaning I will destroy everything and everyone. Everyone else will bow down out of fear of her and not even think twice about putting Jon on the throne.
Saying all that it is very clear who will kill her and I don't think it will be Jon. The Kingslayer and the Queenslayer bothers.
Dany lost her family as a baby, lost her brother, lost her husband and love of her life, lost her unborn baby, lost two of her Dragons who she felt were her children, lost her closest friends in Mormont and Sandy. She then loses her love in Jon Snow who she feels betrays her. She can't rule the 7 kingdoms anymore through love like she got via freeing slaves. She says it... I will have to rule through fear. Meaning I will destroy everything and everyone. Everyone else will bow down out of fear of her and not even think twice about putting Jon on the throne.
Saying all that it is very clear who will kill her and I don't think it will be Jon. The Kingslayer and the Queenslayer bothers.
Amtoft nails it with Dany's losses and perspective. You don't even have to believe she is truly "mad" to understand her rationale.
Tyrion... Man how did he go from one of the smartest and funniest guys to one of the stupidest and the one always going I am so sorry I messed up again and again and again and again. They honestly ruined one of the best characters on TV no matter how this ends, he was one of the biggest idiots on the show. When was the last time he was right about anything or didn't get played by everyone... So stupid.
I still lean toward Jon having to kill her though. Grey Worm isn't just gonna sit back and watch that happen either - he'll have to be killed as well. Maybe Jon takes out Grey Worm and Arya kills Dany?
In reality most of the bolts missed when shot at the dragons and it was unexpected and not planned for. When the time came to attack Kings Landing the move to come down through the sun was brilliant and sweeping from side to side making it hard to turn and fire was way more realistic than the previous magical rapid firing arrows shooting scene so I am shocked so many people are upset about it. I get it they set the stage that these were fast firing and super accurate. However in reality what happened in this battle was way more realistic.
Tyrion... Man how did he go from one of the smartest and funniest guys to one of the stupidest and the one always going I am so sorry I messed up again and again and again and again. They honestly ruined one of the best characters on TV no matter how this ends, he was one of the biggest idiots on the show. When was the last time he was right about anything or didn't get played by everyone... So stupid.
That prophecy was intentionally left out of the show. In hindsight, it should've been obvious that she wouldn't die that way otherwise why remove it?
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In comment 14441422 BrettNYG10 said:
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Why did Tyrion rat out Varys? Why didn't Dany kill Tyrion as well?
That scene felt rushed. Maybe I missed something.
I didn't mind the major plot points of the episode. I thought this was the best of the season. But there was still some rushing. And the Euron scene was idiotic.
When he saw Varys approach Jon he was forced to rat him out. Part of Tyrion knows that Varys is right but he was tried to convince himself that Dany is good deep inside. He still tried to save Cersei at the very end even after learning that she hired Bronn to kill him. I don't like how the turned Tyrion into a constant fuckup.
She may still kill Tyrion, especially after he let Jaime go. Again as I stated above, this could be where Bronn comes back in to save Tyrion's skin again. Then the Bronn getting Highgarden scene would make sense. With Tyrion and Jaime gone he'd get nothing
I think Jon kills her and Tyrion ends up on the Iron Throne due to Jon not wanting to rule
Biggest disappoint about the whole show. More than the super quick ending with the white walkers and the NK aka the "great" one night war with no explanation. I mean come on I would have rather he had been killed off than have him be who they made him be. Even him turning on Varys after Varys saved his life more than once including giving him purpose. He story line was just butchered badly.
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How Cersie acted. Whole city is bring burned and destroyed and she is like ho hum nothing to worry about. I am not even going to say anything really just stand here and not understand what is happening. How she died I was cool with except the prophesy said she would be strangled by the brother? So pretty much everything else in the prophesy is true but that part? Come on man.
Tyrion... Man how did he go from one of the smartest and funniest guys to one of the stupidest and the one always going I am so sorry I messed up again and again and again and again. They honestly ruined one of the best characters on TV no matter how this ends, he was one of the biggest idiots on the show. When was the last time he was right about anything or didn't get played by everyone... So stupid.
That prophecy was intentionally left out of the show. In hindsight, it should've been obvious that she wouldn't die that way otherwise why remove it?
Was it really? Hahaha I guess I always assumed it was in the show. Well then that saves it a little.
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In comment 14442259 Amtoft said:
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How Cersie acted. Whole city is bring burned and destroyed and she is like ho hum nothing to worry about. I am not even going to say anything really just stand here and not understand what is happening. How she died I was cool with except the prophesy said she would be strangled by the brother? So pretty much everything else in the prophesy is true but that part? Come on man.
Tyrion... Man how did he go from one of the smartest and funniest guys to one of the stupidest and the one always going I am so sorry I messed up again and again and again and again. They honestly ruined one of the best characters on TV no matter how this ends, he was one of the biggest idiots on the show. When was the last time he was right about anything or didn't get played by everyone... So stupid.
That prophecy was intentionally left out of the show. In hindsight, it should've been obvious that she wouldn't die that way otherwise why remove it?
Was it really? Hahaha I guess I always assumed it was in the show. Well then that saves it a little.
Me too actually. I only realized it today when a writer mentioned it and linked the clip.
That's also why he said "With great risk comes great reward"
She gave the nod to Khal Drogo to kill Viserys. Who was a total douche bag to her even saying he'd let all 40,000 Dothrakis and their horses rape her if it meant their army would support him in a fight for the throne.
She agreed with the witch that "only death can pay for life" when she bargained for Khal Drogo's life
I hate the Jorah story line, he spied on her and almost led to her assassination. I struggle to see how he could get that close to her again. Hated it in the books and the show equally.
She, like most full blooded Targaryen's, is mad, likely due to incest and the feeling that the iron throne is owed to her. Not created mad by loss IMO. She was raised to believe as a Targaryen the throne was theirs and others were userpers.
Dany's loss basically mirrors Cersei's. I don't think loss drives them, I think it's madness and thirst for power though Cersei was not born via incest she's affected by it clearly.