Back in the previous 4-3 days under Accorsi and Reese we became accustomed to drafting and signing countless DL that were adept at rushing the passer. And that approach certainly paid dividends. We could send pass rush in waves and rotate guys and and out and still be strong up front.
Fast forward to today and we have no marquee name on the DL.
I think this is where we underestimate just how different the way we will create pass rush under Bettcher will be. While having great individual pass rush talent is always beneficial under Bettcher it is not necessarily as critical as before.
Bettcher's D is mainly predicated on manufacturing pass rush from anywhere and everywhere. He doesnt want the offense to know when or where its coming from. He prefers players that are versatile that can both cover and blitz in the secondary. He also prefers guys that are great in man to man defense so he can send more guys from all over after the QB
We didnt get to see this much in action last year because the back end couldn't cover. LC wasnt a cover guy , JJ took a step back and the other CBs were a mess.
So with this type of D while its nice to have the great individual pass rush guy its actually more beneficial to get the secondary greatly improved coverage wise so he can send guys from anywhere after the QB without worrying about the secondary getting consistently toasted in man to man defense. I think we saw this proven in the draft with how many times we went DB.
Now the other part of the equation is he needs the DL to occupy blockers and create pass rush lanes for the LBers and Secondary to get through. Its why a guy like Dexter Lawrence in theory could be an even greater impact for his pass rush schemes than a Montez Sweat would be.
Many of the peices in theory to accomplish this have been brought in. Its how quickly they come together that will be the key to just how good the defense will be this year.
You can pass rush philosophize all you want without an ER threat QB's will pick us apart again this year.
Pass rush vs coverage - ( New Window )
Here's some analytics that show tight coverage is more effective than a good pass rush.
Coverage vs. Pass Rush - ( New Window )
You can pass rush philosophize all you want without an ER threat QB's will pick us apart again this year.
When pressure is coming from places more often outside the trenches this becomes a very different story.
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all you want but for consistent reliable pressure you need a guy that can beat his guy. Clean. One on one. This is why the demand is so high for ER types. Allen was sitting there and we took Jones. Bettcher was scheming last year too but the only pressure came from Vernon and he is gone.
You can pass rush philosophize all you want without an ER threat QB's will pick us apart again this year.
When pressure is coming from places more often outside the trenches this becomes a very different story.
Teams have never seen a corner blitz before ? I understand you can occasionally fool a team but that is not consistent pressure. Rex Ryan did it that way too but he was figured out . A philosophy doesn't get strip sacks. An edge rusher does that.
Thanks for the well thought out point.
Thanks for the well thought out point.
Right. This doesnt mean a guy like Allen doesnt have value its just in a system like this the sacks are more spread out all over. Therefore a guy like Lawrence who could occupy blockers and open up pass rush lanes could have just about the same value that an Allen would.
But we got our QB instead.
But we got our QB instead.
Of course it would have been nice but a Spags 4-3 team with less individual DL pass rushers would be in a lot worse shape than this team is due to defensive philosophy.
If Baker turns out to be a near lock down corner quickly and JJ plays closer to 2016 than we may see alot more sacks this year.
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On some downs, some gaps, that's it, whereas on some downs, some gaps, lbs occupy and the individual DL player or two gets free
That's why they have DL that can do a bit of both (without being weak vs run) and a few larger lbs that can do a bit of both.
That exponentially grows the D playbook.
2015 - Bettcher's first year, this was the team's best year as they got to the playoffs and held offenses to the 5th fewest yards and 7th fewest points. They were +9 in team turnover ratio and created the 2nd most TO in football despite a mediocre pass rush.
Their leading sackers were:
Freeney - 8
Calais Campbell - 5
Golden - 4
and then a bunch between 1-3
Total Sacks = 36
2016 - In Bettcher's 2nd year as DC his unit improved in yards, allowing the 2nd fewest, but allowed more points with the 14th fewest. The Cards team took a step back going 7-8-1 overall and missing the playoffs. They had 5 losses within 1 possession, though just evaluating stats it appears the offense was more of the problem than they D. Their offense turned the ball over a lot and gave up a lot more sacks than the year before, and while their defense created the 4th most turnovers in football they had a 0 TO differential.
Leading sackers were:
Golden - 12.5
Chandler Jones - 11
Calais Campbell - 8
a handful between 1-3.5.
Total Sacks = 48
2017 - Went 8-8 in Arians last year. Carson Palmer missed most of the year so they had to start Blaine Gabbert/Drew Stanton. Offense gave up even more sacks than the year prior. On D they lost Calais Campbell to Jax and Golden tore his ACL. They ended up -4 in TO differential, with their offense ranking behind their defense which created the 16th most turnovers.
Leading sackers were:
Chandler Jones - 17
Olsen Pierre - 5.5
a bunch of guys between 1-2.5
Total Sacks = 37
For reference 2018 Giants had just 30 sacks, led by Vernon with 7, BJ Hill with 5.5, and Carter with 4.0. TO differential was +2, with the offense ranking ahead of the defense but both ranking middle of the pack. We also gave up more yards per play than any of the AZ defenses and were among the worst teams in the league giving up rushing TD's. So it's not too hard to see that there were needs everywhere on this unit including both NT and DB.
That article says that yards per pass play have a -0.2 correlation with pass rush, but a -0.6 correlation with pass coverage.
That is a huge difference.
Sacks are very positive, but not a great way to measure the quality overall of a pass rush.
The difference between leading the league in sacks and being at the bottom many years is less than 2 plays and 15 yards net a game. Again very positive, but in this era of huge pass yards, not what it once was.
The Giants had a middle of the pack pass rush last year based on overall pressure, which historically is the leading indicator of lower passer rating.
The Giants unfortunately had an abysmal secondary that gave up unacceptable yardage and TDs when the opposing QB was under pressure.
The Giants need to continue to make QBs uncomfortable, and then actually defend the passes the QB makes.
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for the Giants last year. If they can get that to 45 along with pressure up the middle to not allow the QB's to step up as much this defense might surprise.
If Baker turns out to be a near lock down corner quickly and JJ plays closer to 2016 than we may see alot more sacks this year.
I think Baker can bring it. JJ who knows, has the same physicality punchiness, but a bunch of slipping on babana peels type errors last year.
Sacks are one of the best plays to create a turnover (QB being very prone), change down and distance, take the other team out of field goal position, etc.
Over the course of the game they can effect points, TOP, momentum, field position to name a few.
A Giants fan creates a thread how his team is underrated. I recall how Ben McAdoo was going to turn things around. -- And now on defense it's Bettcher.
**The pass rush is going to come down to Golden imo. What imo I think some fans forget on here is that the other teams have Professional Players too. They have a right to get better too. And other teams have Professional Coaches too. WHen they play the Giants they are going to look at it as an "easy team/very winnable too."
I'm "shocked" a Giants fan could assume we are "underrating" our defensive coordinator in his "unbias" opinion.
It's surprising to me that he had last year's unit 15th in takeaways. We know the pass rush wasn't good and the secondary might have even been worse. Webb and Riley are far from starter quality - probably the 2 weakest starters on last year's defense by a healthy margin.
Marcus Golden and Lorenzo Carter will need to be the main guys in the edge, Kareem Martin and Oshane Ximines will be the depth. This is a decent group and will get better as the season rolls in. I love Carter and I think Golden is a high energy rusher that will thrive compared to Vernon.
The secondary is much improved IMO and the addition of Connelly at ILB as a blitzer will be exciting.
I like our D Line and don’t forget about RJ McInosh. He is a pretty good pass rusher from the 5 Tech position.
We have lots of unknowns, but many young exciting players from which to find help
You can pass rush philosophize all you want without an ER threat QB's will pick us apart again this year.
Josh Allen wasn't a perfect prospect.
Marcus Golden and Lorenzo Carter will need to be the main guys in the edge, Kareem Martin and Oshane Ximines will be the depth. This is a decent group and will get better as the season rolls in. I love Carter and I think Golden is a high energy rusher that will thrive compared to Vernon.
The secondary is much improved IMO and the addition of Connelly at ILB as a blitzer will be exciting.
I like our D Line and don’t forget about RJ McInosh. He is a pretty good pass rusher from the 5 Tech position.
We have lots of unknowns, but many young exciting players from which to find help
Golden is key in this equation, a vet pass rusher presence that knows Bettcher's system inisde and out.
We dont need 3-4 elite pass rushers like some of our previous 4-3 defenses had but having a couple would certainly help and Golden now is the vet guy of the group who has had double digit sacks in this system.