Peter King ranks all 32 NFL teams

That's one of the biggest issues with the defense. It's not just the worry about the pass rush, but it is a very young defense with not much time for the component part to be meddled together.

In comment 14441285 Eric from BBI said:

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That's one of the biggest issues with the defense. It's not just the worry about the pass rush, but it is a very young defense with not much time for the component part to be meddled together.

True, but honestly does it matter. If you can't be experienced and cohesive, then be big and athletic. We have to hope the defense can make plays from time to time and have athleticism overcome inexperience.

for doing absolutely nothing.

resulting in some easy TDs. This team could be like last year and have a poor record before the bye and a .500 team afterwards.

about how the media hates the Giants for some unknown. reason.

The reality is we've been the worst team in the league over the past two years combined. Moving to 4th worst would be a reasonable improvement.

More than the standings. With a favorable schedule things could look more optimistic than reality. Remember McAdoo's first year? What I'll be watching, more than anything, is how we stack up in the division.

In the nickel 4 of the 5 strayers will be vets Jenkins, Peppers, Bethea and probably Haley. in the front 7 Tomlinson, Hill, Ogletree, Goodson and Carter were here last year. It’s not like they’re starting from scratch. Typical make the facts fit your conclusion. Heaven forbid he talk about the talent itself which is pretty good.

We all hope they will be much better, but they have a lot to prove.

them out of the water for the past two years when he has actually been in the lineup. This team now runs, offensively, through Saquon and I have no issue with that.

I used to like Peter but it seems he has changed significantly since going completely to NBC.

doesn't mean the season is lost. Coming together for the second half, if we can avoid a disastrous first half positions us well.

I don't expect the offense to be more than solid mediocre, but if they can hold time of possession so that the D (making the BIG assumption that reconstruction of the D is on the right path) can't be exploited too badly, we should be middle of the pack. All you can reasonably expect. Hoping for is another matter.

4 returning starters at a minimum...Jenkins, Ogletree, Hill, Tomilison and probably 5 with Carter.

Offense without OBJ is new? How many games has he missed?

I do not necessarily disagree with premise....Defense must gel and offense must improve...

I look forward to seeibg all these idiotic talking heads looking like fools

Go back to sleep and dream your playoff dreams.

No one can complain because a) it means we get better odds for picking the Giants to win the division, and b) who gives a shit how Peter King or any other talking bozo ranks the Giants. These are the same idiots who say the Giants should've drafted Darnold over Barkley last year!!!

NYG have been one of the worst teams two years running, and not been good for much longer than that. They traded away one of only two obvious blue-chip playmakers on the team and invested their top pick on a player who won't contribute this season. 75% of this site is all in on giving this team the benefit of the doubt --that's just not the way folks on the outside are going to look at it. We don't look at our team from the same lens as we do others.

does it pain you to see Rosen being part of the plan to pick high next year? (ok, he actually said it was a good move to take a flier on Rosen, after spending most of the blurb on how Dolphins were positioning themselves to be in place for a shot at a good QB prospect next year. Basically same thing :)

In comment 14441318 UberAlias said:

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NYG have been one of the worst teams two years running, and not been good for much longer than that. They traded away one of only two obvious blue-chip playmakers on the team and invested their top pick on a player who won't contribute this season. 75% of this site is all in on giving this team the benefit of the doubt --that's just not the way folks on the outside are going to look at it. We don't look at our team from the same lens as we do others.

How about he actually look at the talent. Thus team has representative talent on both sides of the ball. The RB is a star, the OL completely rebuilt, the DL and secondary completely rebuilt. There is reason to think the LB have some decent upside. This just isn’t a team with the 28th worst talent in the league.

the talent on this team is unproven. We had some guys look promising last year, but outside of Saquon no one was turning heads. To the eyes of most outside the organization, there was more proven talent lost than gained.

Coach these young players up and see what they're able to put down on the football field.

They need a third offseason of talent infusion, coaching up, and developing cohesion. I expect to see the needle pointing up in 2019, and to see if they've got playoff spot potential in 2020.

last year...

correct in terms of the top end talent. We still don't know what we actually have in terms of the young talent. The NFL sample size just isn't there.

and against AFC East. Division first, obviously, but AFC East should give us some compelling measuring sticks as well.

that does not mean that it is an accurate prediction of the future.

If the Giants wind up 9-7 this year, you would be delighted, but you would not be shocked. Conversely, if we end up 3-13 you would be pissed and disappointed, but again, not shocked. King has nothing concrete to write about yet. His prediction is written in ink, not in stone.

But let's face it, whenever I head Jets fans talking about the talent of their unknown players I tend to roll my eyes. That's how the rest of the league is going to view us until we prove we deserve the benefit of the doubt. And that's not unfair.

but they ranked 24th in total D, 10th worst in points allowed, 13th worst in run D (ypc), 10th worst pass D (ypg), 2nd worst in sacks, i mean it's not like you too the '86 D and replaced 9 starters.

You took a pretty shitty D and replaced 9 starters.

I do think 5 - 11 is probably about right though for a record. this team has all the makings of a shit show.

fair to compare football predictions to weather predictions.
Both kinds are pretty accurate for the next week to ten days, but beyond that, "your mileage may vary." King is trying to predict the weather for a whole year. Good luck to that.

Injuries are certain to strike, but you never know when or how much it will hurt the team. A team that does not have much depth will probably suffer the most. (The football version of the rich get richer.)

honestly I believe in Bettcher but wouldn't be surprised if before we have a good opportunity for a deep run in the playoffs if he ends up getting poached. Could go either way, of course, but he has a lot of young talent, and very low expectations for his unit. If they perform decent this year (say top 15 defensive unit) and next year crack the top ten defensive units, he is going to be well regarded for those accomplishments.

Hoping Shurmur shows his chops and gets the offense to reach its potential soon.

That's only the second-most important position on the field. Our best pass rusher is on a one year deal after getting four sacks last year. Even if the rookie CBs are going to be good, they are also going to be inexperienced.


And then on offense, they better hope the improvements to the OL offset the loss of Beckham. Who's the deep threat on offense? Engram?


They are a year or two away from having a complete roster and competing. If they've made the wrong choice at QB, more than that.

I ll be invested in every game. No need to worry about draft positions at the end of a lost year.

28 th is a reasonable projection, but Taken with a grain of salt

was the biggest thing I took from the article too:

Quote:

Amazing how much love the Niners get.. Sean : 8:07 am : link : reply for doing absolutely nothing.

7th??

It's sort of like the way the Cardinals were always the preseason pick about 4 years before they became good. It also was trendy to pick Jax for awhile there

is it really worth debating whether its 22nd vs 28th?

Peter King?

Fucking yawn.

in his 60's by now?

In comment 14441335 UberAlias said:

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the talent on this team is unproven. We had some guys look promising last year, but outside of Saquon no one was turning heads. To the eyes of most outside the organization, there was more proven talent lost than gained.

Barkley, Solder, Hernandez, Zeitler, Remmers, Tate, Shepard, Engram, Tomlinson, Hill, Ogletree, Jenkins, Peppers, Bethea are unproven? No they aren’t. Even guys like Carter, Golden and Haley aren’t completely unproven though they have things to show. DG has done as good a job as anyone in the NFL in upgrading this roster in the last two years.

nothing done with the pass rush screams "much improved".

think.

Jenkins knows he's gone soon, much of the front seven still needs to show much more than they have. I see some upgrades but nothing screams to me this defense is going to be far better than 2018.

In comment 14441390 BillT said:

Quote:

In comment 14441335 UberAlias said: Quote: the talent on this team is unproven. We had some guys look promising last year, but outside of Saquon no one was turning heads. To the eyes of most outside the organization, there was more proven talent lost than gained. Barkley, Solder, Hernandez, Zeitler, Remmers, Tate, Shepard, Engram, Tomlinson, Hill, Ogletree, Jenkins, Peppers, Bethea are unproven? No they aren’t. Even guys like Carter, Golden and Haley aren’t completely unproven though they have things to show. DG has done as good a job as anyone in the NFL in upgrading this roster in the last two years.

Other than Barkley and Tate you are using proven talent very liberally.

In comment 14441327 fkap said:

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does it pain you to see Rosen being part of the plan to pick high next year? (ok, he actually said it was a good move to take a flier on Rosen, after spending most of the blurb on how Dolphins were positioning themselves to be in place for a shot at a good QB prospect next year. Basically same thing :)

I didn't bother clicking on the link because I wasn't interested how he ranked the teams (clicking on this thread out of boredom was enough of an effort on his behalf). Much more interested in the give and take between friends on BBI. As for Rosen, I wish he had landed in a better place (out of the fire and into the frying pan for him), but at least it wasn't the Redskins. I just hope I come to love the Jones decision as much I now love the Barkley decision.
p.s.--The Browns are playing the AFC East this year so it should be fun watching the four top QBs from the 2018 draft facing off in their sophomore seasons.

It's not just the fact that he's the best RB in the NFL, it's that there is a huge gap between him and the second best RB in the NFL.

However in reference to the quote above, I consider having 9 out of 11 new starters on defense a good thing. Especially when some of these are young talented 2 year guys ready to make the jump, a safety who was a 1st rd draft choice and is a potential all-pro, a 1st rd DT, and 3 new highly drafted cbs.

In comment 14441405 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 14441390 BillT said: Quote: In comment 14441335 UberAlias said: Quote: the talent on this team is unproven. We had some guys look promising last year, but outside of Saquon no one was turning heads. To the eyes of most outside the organization, there was more proven talent lost than gained. Barkley, Solder, Hernandez, Zeitler, Remmers, Tate, Shepard, Engram, Tomlinson, Hill, Ogletree, Jenkins, Peppers, Bethea are unproven? No they aren’t. Even guys like Carter, Golden and Haley aren’t completely unproven though they have things to show. DG has done as good a job as anyone in the NFL in upgrading this roster in the last two years. Other than Barkley and Tate you are using proven talent very liberally.

What? Solder, Hernandez, Zeitler, Remmers are all vets with solid resumes. Ogletree, Jenkins, Peppers, Bethea and Engram aren't proven talents? Are you sure you're not mistaking "proven talents" with outright pessimism. :)

Rome wasn't built in a day.

In comment 14441399 JonC said:

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nothing done with the pass rush screams "much improved".

If Carter had had his rookie season with the Cowboys folks would be talking about him as a future pro bowler. Same with Hill. 11 sacks between them as rookies.

I love what DG has done so far and I know he isn't finished.

Let's go into this season with low expectations and see where it takes us and then go into next year with the extra two compensatory picks and plenty of cap room.

Be patient boys. They may be writing about these couple of seasons as the blueprint to glory for Big Blue!

In comment 14441427 BillT said:

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In comment 14441399 JonC said: Quote: nothing done with the pass rush screams "much improved". If Carter had had his rookie season with the Cowboys folks would be talking about him as a future pro bowler. Same with Hill. 11 sacks between them as rookies.

We're going to agree to disagree.

ESPN or NFL Power rankings...Anybody's rankings, really...and an empty sack, are worth an empty sack.

It's fine as a mental exercise, and it certainly stimulates a discussion, but does it really mean anything? I don't think so.

Who gives a flying fuck what Peter King says.

I haven't scraped the numbers but I thought our offense was better without him on the field right?

With another draft and a free agency period flush with cap room the Giants should be ready to compete for the division title in 2020 with Jones entering his first full season as starter.

In comment 14441390 BillT said:

Quote:

In comment 14441335 UberAlias said: Quote: the talent on this team is unproven. We had some guys look promising last year, but outside of Saquon no one was turning heads. To the eyes of most outside the organization, there was more proven talent lost than gained. Barkley, Solder, Hernandez, Zeitler, Remmers, Tate, Shepard, Engram, Tomlinson, Hill, Ogletree, Jenkins, Peppers, Bethea are unproven? No they aren’t. Even guys like Carter, Golden and Haley aren’t completely unproven though they have things to show. DG has done as good a job as anyone in the NFL in upgrading this roster in the last two years.

You're looking at this as a Giants fan. Other teams aren't looking at that list with envy and saying, look at all that talent.

Ranked 7th

In comment 14441294 MarvelousMike said:

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resulting in some easy TDs. This team could be like last year and have a poor record before the bye and a .500 team afterwards.

Big reason they signed Bethea.

In comment 14441299 ZogZerg said:

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We all hope they will be much better, but they have a lot to prove.

If the giants are the 28th best team in the nfl by 2019’s end I will most definitely complain. They were better than the 28th best team LAST year by the end of the season and even better if you factor in how they actually looked over the second half of the year. Why would I be happy with regression this season?

The giants should be better this season.

In comment 14441420 BillT said:

Quote:

In comment 14441405 pjcas18 said: Quote: In comment 14441390 BillT said: Quote: In comment 14441335 UberAlias said: Quote: the talent on this team is unproven. We had some guys look promising last year, but outside of Saquon no one was turning heads. To the eyes of most outside the organization, there was more proven talent lost than gained. Barkley, Solder, Hernandez, Zeitler, Remmers, Tate, Shepard, Engram, Tomlinson, Hill, Ogletree, Jenkins, Peppers, Bethea are unproven? No they aren’t. Even guys like Carter, Golden and Haley aren’t completely unproven though they have things to show. DG has done as good a job as anyone in the NFL in upgrading this roster in the last two years. Other than Barkley and Tate you are using proven talent very liberally. What? Solder, Hernandez, Zeitler, Remmers are all vets with solid resumes. Ogletree, Jenkins, Peppers, Bethea and Engram aren't proven talents? Are you sure you're not mistaking "proven talents" with outright pessimism. :)

Come on man.

Solder was absolutely brutal last year. He was mediocre as a Patriot. Massive overpay because of all the draft and FA failures.

Hernandez was a rookie. He did some good things as a rookie, but proven talent. I don't think so.

Zeitler is good, I agree.

Remmers hasn't played tackle in a while and he is VASTLY overrated on here, maybe because he's compared with Flowers or Wheeler

Ogletree is a JAG, again, when compared with the garbage the Giants have had at LB he looks like Lawrence Taylor, but no he's not a proven talent

Jenkins hasn't been a shutdown corner in two seasons.

Peppers was up and down in CLE

Bethea is ancient, 35 before he plays a down in NY

Engram is a WR playing TE, he has skill, but no, not proven talent

I think you overrate the Giants talent.

In comment 14441452 nzyme said:

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I haven't scraped the numbers but I thought our offense was better without him on the field right?

I was going to post the same. The post OBJ offense started last year around week 11.
Hopefully the defense comes together quickly, (I mean I hope it comes together, but quicker would be better)

Ogletree gets a lot of shit on here.

He's been a starter in the NFL since 2013. That's not being proven??

In comment 14441573 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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Ogletree gets a lot of shit on here. He's been a starter in the NFL since 2013. That's not being proven??

proven what? He's not a very talented player IMO.

Ereck Flowers started for three years, what did that prove?

AS LONG AS he had his type guys..He’ll mold them within a reasonable time, imo

was an All-Rookie and made the second team AllPro in 2016.

Just stop with the non-proven shit.

He's started 6 seasons in the NFL.

C'mon man

In comment 14441584 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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was an All-Rookie and made the second team AllPro in 2016. Just stop with the non-proven shit. He's started 6 seasons in the NFL. C'mon man

You have watched the Giants I assume for all of Ogletree's 13 games. Do you think he's talented?

I do not. I think he's a JAG or he played like one. Maybe he needs time to acclimate. Solder has been a 7 year starter and also an "all-rookie" team member. He's not proven talent either.

And even if you do add Ogletree to the "proven talent" list, the rest of the players the poster listed as proven talent mostly are not proven talent.

he's talented??

He's a starting LB in the NFL!

He had 5 INT's, returning 2 of them for TD's.

Talentless hack??

This has to be one of the worst hot takes I've seen - debating the talent level of a guy around as long as Ogletree

...there are 4 to 6 wins in this team.

Until proven otherwise.

Solder is a proven talent.

Are you equating "proven talent" with being the top player at a position? Seems like you are making up a definition.

A proven talent is a guy who has been a consistent starter over several years.

Jesus.

In comment 14441596 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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he's talented?? He's a starting LB in the NFL! He had 5 INT's, returning 2 of them for TD's. Talentless hack?? This has to be one of the worst hot takes I've seen - debating the talent level of a guy around as long as Ogletree

I said talentless hack? Now you're making things up.

I said he's a JAG. And that's not as awful as some people think it is.

Your longevity comment is laughable though after the season we just witnessed from Solder.

WTF does longevity have to do with talent?

goes to the "proven" part of a proven talent.

I feel like you are arguing for the sake of it.

You make it sound like Solder was horrendous last year. Just hot take after terrible hot take.

the way, Solder has been an 8 year starter in the NFL.

Was a team captain for NE. Two time SB champion.

But he's not a proven talent.

wasn't horrendous? holy shit.

Ok, LOL, I'm arguing for the sake of arguing.

As usual with you everything blows up into a massive debate.

I do not think Ogletree is a good player, and I do not think Solder is a good player, in fact I think he was a disaster last year.

My definition (that I made up) for "proven talent" has an element to it that a player is a good player relative to their peers. Not just that they start or "have been around" for a long period of time.

I already mentioned Ereck Flowers started for three straight years. Is he proven talent (obviously no longer a Giant, but I like to know people's definition I guess before I make up my own again).

In comment 14441607 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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the way, Solder has been an 8 year starter in the NFL. Was a team captain for NE. Two time SB champion. But he's not a proven talent.

He was brutal last year. I don't know what team you watched. Even in New England he was considered questionable by Pats media and fans. They laughed when the Giants made him the highest paid OL.

I guess we have different standards. You and BillT have an "just be on the field" standard for proven talent, for me you have to excel at least a little bit.

blows up into a massive debate.

There's not much debate here. There's really nothing to illustrate that Ogletree and Solder aren't proven players.

Ereck Flowers was on the hot seat from Day 1. Ogletree and solder were solid starters. Again - Solder was a team captain. Are they just handing those things out for the fuck of it?

Lengthy debates will only happen if posters continue to stand behind shitty takes.

Ogletree was one of the better Linebackers when it came to pass coverage. Why he regressed last year (the miraculous five interceptions notwithstanding), I don't know, but regress he did. Was it an aberration or a harbinger of things to come? I don't know that, either, but I do think it's unfair to label him a JAG.

He did improve over the second half which was a good sign moving forward. Is he worth his contract? No, but he isn't a terrible LT. He had a full season to develop chemistry with Will Hernandez so I expect Hernandez to take a big step forward this season which will take some pressure off Solder.

In comment 14441615 pjcas18 said:

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wasn't horrendous? holy shit. Ok, LOL, I'm arguing for the sake of arguing. As usual with you everything blows up into a massive debate. I do not think Ogletree is a good player, and I do not think Solder is a good player, in fact I think he was a disaster last year. My definition (that I made up) for "proven talent" has an element to it that a player is a good player relative to their peers. Not just that they start or "have been around" for a long period of time. I already mentioned Ereck Flowers started for three straight years. Is he proven talent (obviously no longer a Giant, but I like to know people's definition I guess before I make up my own again).

Ereck Flowers IS a proven talent. The three years he started showed he has none.

then the defense will be better off.

Still a lot of work to be done to fix this roster. I said if DG had an A+ offseason (and I don’t think he has) the’NYG are still way behind Dallas and Philly.

and a painfully weak set of edge rushers, #28 seems about right. If they were going to trade OBJ--and I am not suggesting they shouldn't have--at least they should have had a plan in place to rebuild the receiving corps. And they will have trouble getting the defense off the field with this level of pass-rushing "talent." I have nightmares of the quarterback sitting in the pocket on third down until someone breaks open.

In comment 14441722 BigBlueCane said:

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then the defense will be better off.

Totally agree.

Barkley, Barkley, Barkley. He should have a combined 500+ touches. I know it's not going to happen, but this is also why Jones should start. He can hand the ball off and check down to Barkley just like Eli. And, and this is critical, he can keep drives alive with his mobility - making throws and running (assuming you buy into the Jones CV).

even over several years in row starting.

Solder and Ogletree are better than JAGs, but have had JAG-type years for certain...

In comment 14441705 Jay on the Island said:

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He did improve over the second half which was a good sign moving forward. Is he worth his contract? No, but he isn't a terrible LT. He had a full season to develop chemistry with Will Hernandez so I expect Hernandez to take a big step forward this season which will take some pressure off Solder.

Solder was hurt the first half of the season and performed much better in the second half. Not sure why anyone would make short shrift of that, or, not even allude to it as a factor. A big one

A number of players need to step up, but this team has a wide range of possible outcomes. If teams take them lightly, they just might sneak up on the league early and build some momentum.

Their OL is still not great, but the additions certainly improve it to what should be an acceptable level. With Barkley in the backfield, that could be enough. As long as they give Manning more than 1 second to throw, the offense can be good enough to win games. I do think engram needs to take a big step forward, though, for the overall offense to be significant.

On D, we are now bringing in players who should fit Betcher's D. Again, some guys need to step up and we may be over-reliant on a rookie to stuff the middle. But, we are getting younger and more athletic.

started in October.

Unless you're the Patriots (or the Yankees) it's hard to win when the injury gods are unkind to you.

On paper anyway, the Giants have a pretty good offensive line. That should help out the running game with Barkley, and give Eli more time to throw and with clearer passing lanes. We saw how Eli performed last season when he had time to throw. He also performed well late in the season without Odell, as he was strong at distributing the ball amongst his receivers.

Obviously Eli is a year older, and teams will no longer have to gameplan for Odell, but I think this offense has the potential to be a top 12 offense (they were #16 last year).

As for the team as a whole, Gettleman says a team needs to do three things well: run the ball, protect the QB, and pressure the opposing QB. The first two could be a strength. But the last one could very well be our Achilles heel.

And with the addition of Zeitler, Tate, Golden, and the rookie class (notwithstanding the subtraction of LC, OBJ, and OV), the 2019 will be a step up from the 4-4 team that closed out 2018. So to predict the same 5-11 record as last year doesn't compute.

9-7 if things go poorly. 10-6 if the ball doesn't bounce their way. 11-5 or 12-4 if the luck factor is a push between them and the rest of the division. 13-3 or better if the ball bounces their way. Don't want to jinx anyone by mentioning what could cause 8-8 or worse.

as follows... using recent performance and expectations.... I would say there is a great amount of upside to the below... which is great and what we are all hopeful for... but just objectively on paper, its not a good team. The media isnt saying that because they hate the Giants, its because the team has been a dumpster fire so no benefit of the doubt will be given. They will have to prove it on the field and hopefully that happens

QBs- average/below average
RB- Elite
WR- Average
Tackles- Average
Center- Below Average
Guards- Above average
Tight ends- average

Down Linemen- Average
Linebackers-Below average
Edge rush- below average
Corners- Average-
Safeties- Average-

Coaching- Below Average

In comment 14441908 Milton said:

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And with the addition of Zeitler, Tate, Golden, and the rookie class (notwithstanding the subtraction of LC, OBJ, and OV), the 2019 will be a step up from the 4-4 team that closed out 2018. So to predict the same 5-11 record as last year doesn't compute. 9-7 if things go poorly. 10-6 if the ball doesn't bounce their way. 11-5 or 12-4 if the luck factor is a push between them and the rest of the division. 13-3 or better if the ball bounces their way. Don't want to jinx anyone by mentioning what could cause 8-8 or worse.

Of the list of your 'improvements' in the first sentence, one guy is an upgrade (Zeitler). The WR is a 30 year old on his fourth team and the EDGE is a guy who had four sacks last year coming back from a major knee injury. Not sure why you would count rookies as an upgrade. They may end up being good players; right now they haven't played a down in this league. 9-7 if things go poorly is hilarious.

I respect your opinion, but just like everyone else's, it's a subjective one. Using the word "objective" to describe your opinion or anyone's in the media doesn't make it so.

p.s.--Whenever someone asks me how tall I am, I tell them I'm 6'4".

In comment 14441934 Milton said:

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I respect your opinion, but just like everyone else's, it's a subjective one. Using the word "objective" to describe your opinion or anyone's in the media doesn't make it so. p.s.--Whenever someone asks me how tall I am, I tell them I'm 6'4".

i use objective because i am removing emotion and being hopeful

i would say there is a chance Eli is above average and OTs are, and the front 7 clicks and the rookies are whatever... but what im saying is there is zero reason for anyone to look at the giants the last 2 years... look at the roster now.. and say to themsevles... look out for these guys.

he knew precisely which buttons to push to generate clicks.

before we "jinx" the 8-8 record...

ranks the Giants as I do about what L. Collins has to say about the state of the Giants moving forward.

much more optimistic about the defense than some. I went back and re-watched some of the Giants games from 2018. We had dreadful personnel in the secondary. B.W. Webb and Curtis Riley may have been two of the very worst starters in the NFL. Landon Collins did not play well. We eventually had to have an undrafted rookie free agent start at nickel corner.

Our secondary has been completely made remade with QUALITY players. Bethea may be nearing the end, but Bettcher just commented that he seems to be playing faster than he did earlier in his career. He's a perfect guy to teach the young pups. Jabrill is an upgrade over Collins. Our new corners are going to be good.

I love our DL now... they are young and have not entered their prime yet.

The big questions are at LB. Much depends on Golden and Carter.

In comment 14441292 Sean said:

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for doing absolutely nothing.

They have Garrapolo returning from injury, they selected who was widely considered to be the best player in the draft for most of the pre-draft process as well as two very promising wide receivers, they signed a guy coming off a 13 sack season, and they may have a sneaky-versatile backfiled with Coleman, Breida, and the return of McKinnon. I wouldn't say that automatically makes them a top-ten team or anything, but I also wouldn't say it's absolutely nothing.

In comment 14441954 Eric from BBI said:

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much more optimistic about the defense than some. I went back and re-watched some of the Giants games from 2018. We had dreadful personnel in the secondary. B.W. Webb and Curtis Riley may have been two of the very worst starters in the NFL. Landon Collins did not play well. We eventually had to have an undrafted rookie free agent start at nickel corner. Our secondary has been completely made remade with QUALITY players. Bethea may be nearing the end, but Bettcher just commented that he seems to be playing faster than he did earlier in his career. He's a perfect guy to teach the young pups. Jabrill is an upgrade over Collins. Our new corners are going to be good. I love our DL now... they are young and have not entered their prime yet. The big questions are at LB. Much depends on Golden and Carter.

I am with you 100% but will add that it really MOSTLY depends on Golden and Carter bringing ER rush and bringing it consistently. As much as Bettcher will dial up special blitzes and front, our best rushers need to win those "1 on 1" battles from time to time to take the pressure off.

I can see us struggling on defense game 1 against Dallas simply because we have a lot of new faces & a lot of young faces. But I think this defense will gel quickly.

One thing in our favor is that I do believe Pierre, Golden, Bethea all know Bettcher's scheme so we have a bit of a learning curve advantage there.

In comment 14441954 Eric from BBI said:

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much more optimistic about the defense than some. I went back and re-watched some of the Giants games from 2018. We had dreadful personnel in the secondary. B.W. Webb and Curtis Riley may have been two of the very worst starters in the NFL. Landon Collins did not play well. We eventually had to have an undrafted rookie free agent start at nickel corner. Our secondary has been completely made remade with QUALITY players. Bethea may be nearing the end, but Bettcher just commented that he seems to be playing faster than he did earlier in his career. He's a perfect guy to teach the young pups. Jabrill is an upgrade over Collins. Our new corners are going to be good. I love our DL now... they are young and have not entered their prime yet. The big questions are at LB. Much depends on Golden and Carter.

Who said Peppers is an upgrade over Collins? Collins has led this team in tackles the last two years here, despite missing games last year. Has Peppers? Has he ever made the pro bowl?

And what do you think Bettchner is going to say about Bethea, that he's washed up? He's 34. The cliff is approaching.

I still don't know who's rushing the passer. Golden? He had 4 sacks last year. Is he all the way back from major knee injury? Maybe! I don't take any comfort from the fact that the guy penciled in as our best pass rusher is on a one-year prove it deal.


The rookies could be good! Seems like we are putting a lot of hoping and wishing into it though.

In comment 14441292 Sean said:

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for doing absolutely nothing.

It's not very complicated.

They added two very good edge rushers, a good MLB, and more pieces to the puzzle for Shanahan's offense. They hope to have Garoppolo back there for a full season instead of more prime time killers in Mullens and Beathard.

If the team can live up to that potential and learn to close out games they should have won with those backups last year (Packers AT Green Bay, Chargers in LA, Cards twice), then they can be a force this year.

I'm rather superstitious and don't like to make big projections. But if the team went 12-4 this year, it wouldn't be a huge surprise whatsoever. The Niners going 13-3 in 2011 was something that nobody in the NFL predicted, not even the bigger Niner homer.

Niner fans cautiously anticipate anywhere between 7-10 wins, but believe me, every single game they will feel they deserve to be in it until the end. That's the sentiment.

Meanwhile the Seahawks only bring back Wilson and Wagner from the SB teams, and people will slurp them up as a 10 win team no problem.

Just say this. This team lost 7 games by a TD or less. So a big improvement is not out the question with a revamped OL & D.

In comment 14442160 OC2.0 said:

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Just say this. This team lost 7 games by a TD or less. So a big improvement is not out the question with a revamped OL & D.

That is how the NFL works. How many games of those where we down 2 scores and we'd score a near meaningless TD late? It seemed like quite a few if I remember correctly.

In comment 14442160 OC2.0 said:

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Just say this. This team lost 7 games by a TD or less. So a big improvement is not out the question with a revamped OL & D.

lemme just ask: how do you know they haven't gotten worse?

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I'm rather superstitious and don't like to make big projections. But if the team went 12-4 this year, it wouldn't be a huge surprise whatsoever.

It would be a huge surprise.

Hell, getting to 8-8 is going to be a tall order.

In comment 14441622 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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blows up into a massive debate. There's not much debate here. There's really nothing to illustrate that Ogletree and Solder aren't proven players. Ereck Flowers was on the hot seat from Day 1. Ogletree and solder were solid starters. Again - Solder was a team captain. Are they just handing those things out for the fuck of it? Lengthy debates will only happen if posters continue to stand behind shitty takes.

While we are on semantics, I wouldn't equate proven with good, or even quality. I think it's a fair point that Solder wasn't terribly good, certainly not worth the price. Moreover, being a captain of a team doesn't have a lot to do with how good a player is. Jonathan Casillas was a team captain.

People constantly get into arguments about semantics, which message boards are ripe for, but we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water - frequently there's a kernel in there somewhere.

Jabrill Peppers is a much better player than Landon Collins. Collins is living off his 2016 season. He was a stud that year. He's been ordinary at best the other three seasons.

Wait and see.

I've already said the two OLBs are the question marks. But ACL's can take some time to come back from and Bettcher said he's moving around great now.

.

In comment 14442120 NINEster said:

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In comment 14441292 Sean said: Quote: for doing absolutely nothing. It's not very complicated. They added two very good edge rushers, a good MLB, and more pieces to the puzzle for Shanahan's offense. They hope to have Garoppolo back there for a full season instead of more prime time killers in Mullens and Beathard. If the team can live up to that potential and learn to close out games they should have won with those backups last year (Packers AT Green Bay, Chargers in LA, Cards twice), then they can be a force this year. I'm rather superstitious and don't like to make big projections. But if the team went 12-4 this year, it wouldn't be a huge surprise whatsoever. The Niners going 13-3 in 2011 was something that nobody in the NFL predicted, not even the bigger Niner homer. Niner fans cautiously anticipate anywhere between 7-10 wins, but believe me, every single game they will feel they deserve to be in it until the end. That's the sentiment. Meanwhile the Seahawks only bring back Wilson and Wagner from the SB teams, and people will slurp them up as a 10 win team no problem.

Ummmm, the Seahawks DID win 10 games last year and made the playoffs while the 49ers were picking second in the entire draft.

Yeah, how bizarre that people are “slurping” on a team that just won 10 games and went to the playoffs and predicting that they could ....actually win 10 games! Weird, right?

In comment 14442215 Eric from BBI said:

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Jabrill Peppers is a much better player than Landon Collins. Collins is living off his 2016 season. He was a stud that year. He's been ordinary at best the other three seasons. Wait and see. I've already said the two OLBs are the question marks. But ACL's can take some time to come back from and Bettcher said he's moving around great now.

Peppers had one interception and one sack, with Collins having zero. Collins had almost 20 more tackles. Saying Peppers is 'much better' than Collins is unsupportable. The best argument you can make is they're a wash. Whoop de doo.

You said you are more optimistic than most about the defense, but acknowledge that the OLBs have issues. I fail to see the reasons why anyone would be optimistic. They were terrible last year, and I don't see how they improved.

Because Jabrill Peppers played out of position his rookie season (which in the long run will help him develop as a player as he now has the ability to play that spot) he didn't really come on until his sophomore season. He's a much better athlete than Collins. He can even play some corner.

You don't have to believe me. The Cleveland coaches loved him and texted Bettcher after the trade and told him he would love him. Bucky Brooks thinks he is going to be a breakout player in 2019.

As I said, wait and see.

that tackles are often a function of the defense - not the player.

Collins had the 46th most tackles in the NFL - just ahead of Tre Boston and Bradley McDougald.

I see things trending up and I expect to see some real fight from the team this year. I expect them to form some kind of identity finally, after years of being non-descript. Smash mouth? I for one would love to see it.

In comment 14442215 Eric from BBI said:

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Jabrill Peppers is a much better player than Landon Collins. Collins is living off his 2016 season. He was a stud that year. He's been ordinary at best the other three seasons. Wait and see. I've already said the two OLBs are the question marks. But ACL's can take some time to come back from and Bettcher said he's moving around great now.

Has peppers ever been a stud? I think he has the potential but how can you claim someone is better when up to now peak Collins is better? Even if a few years back? It’s these assumptions and leaps that get people to 8-10 wins- which I’m hoping for but it’s hard to use as a base case

In comment 14442393 hitdog42 said:

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In comment 14442215 Eric from BBI said: Quote: Jabrill Peppers is a much better player than Landon Collins. Collins is living off his 2016 season. He was a stud that year. He's been ordinary at best the other three seasons. Wait and see. I've already said the two OLBs are the question marks. But ACL's can take some time to come back from and Bettcher said he's moving around great now. Has peppers ever been a stud? I think he has the potential but how can you claim someone is better when up to now peak Collins is better? Even if a few years back? It’s these assumptions and leaps that get people to 8-10 wins- which I’m hoping for but it’s hard to use as a base case

Oh please. Peak Collins is a thing of the past until proven otherwise. If ever.

In comment 14442228 BigBlueShock said:

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In comment 14442120 NINEster said: Quote: In comment 14441292 Sean said: Quote: for doing absolutely nothing. It's not very complicated. They added two very good edge rushers, a good MLB, and more pieces to the puzzle for Shanahan's offense. They hope to have Garoppolo back there for a full season instead of more prime time killers in Mullens and Beathard. If the team can live up to that potential and learn to close out games they should have won with those backups last year (Packers AT Green Bay, Chargers in LA, Cards twice), then they can be a force this year. I'm rather superstitious and don't like to make big projections. But if the team went 12-4 this year, it wouldn't be a huge surprise whatsoever. The Niners going 13-3 in 2011 was something that nobody in the NFL predicted, not even the bigger Niner homer. Niner fans cautiously anticipate anywhere between 7-10 wins, but believe me, every single game they will feel they deserve to be in it until the end. That's the sentiment. Meanwhile the Seahawks only bring back Wilson and Wagner from the SB teams, and people will slurp them up as a 10 win team no problem. Ummmm, the Seahawks DID win 10 games last year and made the playoffs while the 49ers were picking second in the entire draft. Yeah, how bizarre that people are “slurping” on a team that just won 10 games and went to the playoffs and predicting that they could ....actually win 10 games! Weird, right?

It's very weird.

Seattle always gets the benefit of the doubt.