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Earth to Shurmur... time to bump Tanney down

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/13/2019 3:27 pm
Dan Duggan
& #8207;Verified account @DDuggan21
26m26 minutes ago

Today was the first full-team voluntary workouts with rookies joining the vets. Few notes, per source:
QB1: Eli, QB2: Tanney, QB3: Jones. Lauletta didnít participate as he recovers from knee injury. Dungey worked with TEs.
Mike Remmers was in the building but didnít participate.
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RE: RE: RE: Comletely Agree with Eric  
bw in dc : 5/13/2019 4:27 pm : link
In comment 14442127 ron mexico said:
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In comment 14442122 bw in dc said:


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In comment 14442093 ZogZerg said:


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Stop playing games. Tanney needs to move down to 3 pronto!
God I hope he's not planning to dress Tanney on Game day and have DJ stand in street clothes. Or worse, dress 3 QBs.



If that happens - and that is an enormous IF - then we'd better start a deep evaluation of the 2020 QB class...



does it really matter? Eli is going to take every snap until he doesn't take any.


Indeed it does. Because as soon as Eli stops taking those snaps, the only other person who should be taking snaps is Jones. So Jones needs to be ready to go.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Comletely Agree with Eric  
ron mexico : 5/13/2019 4:31 pm : link
In comment 14442138 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14442127 ron mexico said:


Quote:


In comment 14442122 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 14442093 ZogZerg said:


Quote:


Stop playing games. Tanney needs to move down to 3 pronto!
God I hope he's not planning to dress Tanney on Game day and have DJ stand in street clothes. Or worse, dress 3 QBs.



If that happens - and that is an enormous IF - then we'd better start a deep evaluation of the 2020 QB class...



does it really matter? Eli is going to take every snap until he doesn't take any.




Indeed it does. Because as soon as Eli stops taking those snaps, the only other person who should be taking snaps is Jones. So Jones needs to be ready to go.


I get the feeling that like his brother, Eli leaves no snaps behind. So it doesn't matter who is #2. They both will get next to no snaps with the O and get the same prep time in the meeting room.

RE: I think of the impact on culture...  
RDJR : 5/13/2019 4:32 pm : link
In comment 14442126 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
when spots are earned vs. awarded. With all the emphasis on culture and doing things the right way, that should be a big part of the Shurmur's thinking.

I think it's fine for DJ to earn the 2nd spot. The key though is to give him lots of opportunities.


The ďcultureĒ red herring makes an appearance. The ďcultureĒ of the NFL is typically a top 10 draft pick, the 2nd QB drafted, is higher on the depth chart than the likes of Alex Tanney. Shurmur may have inadvertently caused an unnecessary PR issue, as evidenced by this thread. Donít need distractions.
Distractions is as much as a red herring  
ron mexico : 5/13/2019 4:33 pm : link
as culture, in my view
RE: Distractions is as much as a red herring  
RDJR : 5/13/2019 4:37 pm : link
In comment 14442152 ron mexico said:
Quote:
as culture, in my view


Fair enough, although Iím sure the first question at the next presser will be, ďwhy is DJ 3rd on the QB depth chart?Ē Maybe not a distraction, but certainly avoidable by bumping Tanney to 3.
Lol this guy literally got a playbook two weeks ago.  
Zeke's Alibi : 5/13/2019 4:40 pm : link
People need to relax.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Comletely Agree with Eric  
bw in dc : 5/13/2019 4:40 pm : link
In comment 14442149 ron mexico said:
Quote:


Indeed it does. Because as soon as Eli stops taking those snaps, the only other person who should be taking snaps is Jones. So Jones needs to be ready to go.


I get the feeling that like his brother, Eli leaves no snaps behind. So it doesn't matter who is #2. They both will get next to no snaps with the O and get the same prep time in the meeting room.


The last thing this organization needs is the #6 QB taking a red-shirt year...
RE: RE: Distractions is as much as a red herring  
BigBlueShock : 5/13/2019 4:47 pm : link
In comment 14442158 RDJR said:
Quote:
In comment 14442152 ron mexico said:


Quote:


as culture, in my view



Fair enough, although Iím sure the first question at the next presser will be, ďwhy is DJ 3rd on the QB depth chart?Ē Maybe not a distraction, but certainly avoidable by bumping Tanney to 3.

Itís incredibly laughable at this point that Giants fans continue to think that Gettleman and/or Shurmur actually give a rats ass about what the media says. The only people that care what the media says are the thin skinned fans that get their panties in a bunch over everything said.

The Giants arenít making any decisions because they are worried about questions from the damned media. Come on now. If thatís not crystal clear to you yet, you should probably pay closer attention. Iíd also recommend stop giving a shit about the media for yourself, too. But thatís your prerogative...
Everything has to be earned.  
81_Great_Dane : 5/13/2019 4:50 pm : link
That's important to the cohesion of the team, but also to getting away from the much-derided "scholarship mentality" that plagued the Giants in recent years. How they got him (#6 overall pick) is less important than how he performs.
I don't think they see Eric Dungey as a QB  
GeofromNJ : 5/13/2019 5:03 pm : link
Lauletta is injured and may be cut before the final roster is set - not because of his injury but because of his limited arm. This leaves Tanney and Jones.
RE: Everything has to be earned.  
Go Terps : 5/13/2019 5:22 pm : link
In comment 14442179 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
That's important to the cohesion of the team, but also to getting away from the much-derided "scholarship mentality" that plagued the Giants in recent years. How they got him (#6 overall pick) is less important than how he performs.


Is Eli being held to that same standard, or is he also on scholarship?
If you think Gettleman is getting heat now  
morrison40 : 5/13/2019 5:24 pm : link
Wait until Jones is not named game 1 backup, (I think he will be), especially if both Murray and Haskins are starters
Tanney make the team  
Bill in UT : 5/13/2019 5:30 pm : link
Lauletta get hidden away on IR until Eli is gone
RE: RE: Everything has to be earned.  
Deejboy : 5/13/2019 5:32 pm : link
In comment 14442238 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14442179 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


That's important to the cohesion of the team, but also to getting away from the much-derided "scholarship mentality" that plagued the Giants in recent years. How they got him (#6 overall pick) is less important than how he performs.



Is Eli being held to that same standard, or is he also on scholarship?

Eli knows the playbook. Does Jones know the entire playbook two weeks after he was drafted?
RE: RE: Everything has to be earned.  
Nine-Tails : 5/13/2019 5:36 pm : link
In comment 14442238 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14442179 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


That's important to the cohesion of the team, but also to getting away from the much-derided "scholarship mentality" that plagued the Giants in recent years. How they got him (#6 overall pick) is less important than how he performs.



Is Eli being held to that same standard, or is he also on scholarship?


He is on Maraship
RE: RE: RE: Everything has to be earned.  
bw in dc : 5/13/2019 5:41 pm : link
In comment 14442257 Deejboy said:
Quote:

Eli knows the playbook. Does Jones know the entire playbook two weeks after he was drafted?


Right. Whether Eli can consistently execute those plays at 38 is the concern.

I feel reasonably good about this - Jones seems to have the capacity to make unscheduled plays to keep drives alive that Eli can't. For that critical ability along - an ability that Shurmur covets - the fair thing to do would be to give Jones a chance to actually compete for the job with Eli.
Can't count on the head coach to make this decision  
Go Terps : 5/13/2019 5:48 pm : link
Shurmur is trying to cover his own ass, and has no interest in developing Jones so that the next coach can reap the benefit. I think I read somewhere that Shurmur wanted to pick Allen, and I'm confident that's correct.

The decision will have to be made for Shurmur by the people above him. That's the only way Jones gets on the field.

The Giants think they're doing right by Eli, but they aren't. They are setting him up for one last indignity.
not sure I read Shurmur quite that way  
ColHowPepper : 5/13/2019 6:04 pm : link
either in your perception of his on his tenure as HC/NYG nor on the longer term development (i.e., beyond one year) of the team. He may have been all in on Allen when it was thought that Jones might be an option @ 17, before the higher ups pulled the rug out on the odds of Allen @ 6. Too much movement in too short a time to definitively peg Shurmur preferring Allen there.
I hear you but..  
Bavaro_the_Mafioso : 5/13/2019 6:19 pm : link
You only deserve what you earn
Wouldn't that be funny if Tanny beats out Jones  
micky : 5/13/2019 6:35 pm : link
As backup..lol😂🤣
RE: RE: RE: Distractions is as much as a red herring  
RDJR : 5/13/2019 6:43 pm : link
In comment 14442172 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 14442158 RDJR said:


Quote:


In comment 14442152 ron mexico said:


Quote:


as culture, in my view



Fair enough, although Iím sure the first question at the next presser will be, ďwhy is DJ 3rd on the QB depth chart?Ē Maybe not a distraction, but certainly avoidable by bumping Tanney to 3.


Itís incredibly laughable at this point that Giants fans continue to think that Gettleman and/or Shurmur actually give a rats ass about what the media says. The only people that care what the media says are the thin skinned fans that get their panties in a bunch over everything said.

The Giants arenít making any decisions because they are worried about questions from the damned media. Come on now. If thatís not crystal clear to you yet, you should probably pay closer attention. Iíd also recommend stop giving a shit about the media for yourself, too. But thatís your prerogative...


This premise is simply wrong and thank goodness it is. Whether you like it or not professional football is an entertainment business, they are not making widgets. Itís not brain surgery. What the media reports is absolutely something a HC and GM need to concern themselves with in 2019. They may not be ďworriedĒ about questions from the media, but the lesson from the Geno Smith/Eli debacle should be enough to show you that this franchise does react to public sentiment which is driven by the media.

Why would it be crystal clear? That is not the case at all. Making money in an entertainment business means that the public and the media matter. Donít fool yourself by thinking otherwise.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Distractions is as much as a red herring  
BigBlueShock : 5/13/2019 7:00 pm : link
In comment 14442348 RDJR said:
Quote:
In comment 14442172 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 14442158 RDJR said:


Quote:


In comment 14442152 ron mexico said:


Quote:


as culture, in my view



Fair enough, although Iím sure the first question at the next presser will be, ďwhy is DJ 3rd on the QB depth chart?Ē Maybe not a distraction, but certainly avoidable by bumping Tanney to 3.


Itís incredibly laughable at this point that Giants fans continue to think that Gettleman and/or Shurmur actually give a rats ass about what the media says. The only people that care what the media says are the thin skinned fans that get their panties in a bunch over everything said.

The Giants arenít making any decisions because they are worried about questions from the damned media. Come on now. If thatís not crystal clear to you yet, you should probably pay closer attention. Iíd also recommend stop giving a shit about the media for yourself, too. But thatís your prerogative...



This premise is simply wrong and thank goodness it is. Whether you like it or not professional football is an entertainment business, they are not making widgets. Itís not brain surgery. What the media reports is absolutely something a HC and GM need to concern themselves with in 2019. They may not be ďworriedĒ about questions from the media, but the lesson from the Geno Smith/Eli debacle should be enough to show you that this franchise does react to public sentiment which is driven by the media.

Why would it be crystal clear? That is not the case at all. Making money in an entertainment business means that the public and the media matter. Donít fool yourself by thinking otherwise.

This may be the worst take Iíve seen on this site, and thatís saying something. There is absolutely nothing that shows Gettleman cares about what the mean ole media is gonna say about him or his decisions. The HC and GM should be concerned with what the media reports? Is this for real? They should just name Jones the number two so they donít get asked the question by the media? And because itís 2019?

Holy shitballs. Iím sure glad your sensitive ass isnít running the team. Youíd spend most of your time calling all of the media outlets to make sure the move you were about to make was ok by them because you didnít want them to be mean to you. Again, Gettleman has flown into the face of all conventional wisdom with many of the moves heís made. The media has tried their best to destroy him for it, and he continues to make moves that would suggest he doesnít give a shit about them, their opinions or the fact that they will take out their daggers if you go against the grain. He doesnít care. And he shouldnít. 2019 or not.
You want to be a bad football team  
Sneakers O'toole : 5/13/2019 7:02 pm : link
letting media and fan opinion color your decisions is a fast way to get there.
RE: You want to be a bad football team  
BigBlueShock : 5/13/2019 7:03 pm : link
In comment 14442365 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
letting media and fan opinion color your decisions is a fast way to get there.

Exactly.
And what order the qbs are ranked  
Sneakers O'toole : 5/13/2019 7:04 pm : link
In mid may is meaningless. They can't eveb do team drills yet.
Jones will be the #2 when he is ready  
PatersonPlank : 5/13/2019 7:13 pm : link
Until then its Tanney. Let Jones come in, learn the playbook, get used to the other players, etc. Players want to see a player promoted on merit, so let Jones get settled in and start to show the team what he can do.

If Eli gets hurt early in the season it may still be Tanney that goes into the game, not Jones. Like any rookie he needs a little time
RE: RE: RE: Comletely Agree with Eric  
DonQuixote : 5/13/2019 7:25 pm : link
In comment 14442127 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14442122 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 14442093 ZogZerg said:


Quote:


Stop playing games. Tanney needs to move down to 3 pronto!
God I hope he's not planning to dress Tanney on Game day and have DJ stand in street clothes. Or worse, dress 3 QBs.



If that happens - and that is an enormous IF - then we'd better start a deep evaluation of the 2020 QB class...



does it really matter? Eli is going to take every snap until he doesn't take any.


If Eli were to get hurt, any snaps given to Tanney over Jones are a waste. There is something to be said for player development.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Comletely Agree with Eric  
ron mexico : 5/13/2019 7:32 pm : link
In comment 14442388 DonQuixote said:
Quote:
In comment 14442127 ron mexico said:


Quote:


In comment 14442122 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 14442093 ZogZerg said:


Quote:


Stop playing games. Tanney needs to move down to 3 pronto!
God I hope he's not planning to dress Tanney on Game day and have DJ stand in street clothes. Or worse, dress 3 QBs.



If that happens - and that is an enormous IF - then we'd better start a deep evaluation of the 2020 QB class...



does it really matter? Eli is going to take every snap until he doesn't take any.




If Eli were to get hurt, any snaps given to Tanney over Jones are a waste. There is something to be said for player development.


Once the season starts, you are talking 0-5 snaps a week. Probably closer to 0 most weeks

RE: Can't count on the head coach to make this decision  
bw in dc : 5/13/2019 7:32 pm : link
In comment 14442285 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Shurmur is trying to cover his own ass, and has no interest in developing Jones so that the next coach can reap the benefit. I think I read somewhere that Shurmur wanted to pick Allen, and I'm confident that's correct.

The decision will have to be made for Shurmur by the people above him. That's the only way Jones gets on the field.


If I had to guess, all parties at Jints Central wanted to draft Allen. But they - well Gettleman - got bluffed by the intel and basically hit the panic button with Jones.

Allen was an "add water and stir" pick. He would start right away and bolster a big need. Instead, it looks like we are going to stow away a much younger, more athletic QB so the 38 year old incumbent can keep trying to enhance his legacy.

And, to your point, Shurmur is okay with that because he needs to demonstrate his can build a winning NFL program. Otherwise, he'll enter the permanent OC circuit.
zero chance all parties at Jints Central  
BigBlueCane : 5/13/2019 7:44 pm : link
wanted Allen. Not when Chris Mara went to watch Jones's pro day.

Coaching staff may have wanted Allen, that I buy. But zero chance the Mara's and Gettleman wanted Allen over Jones. Maras want a seamless transition.
Via the KC model  
Dave on the UWS : 5/13/2019 7:51 pm : link
Jones will be #3 all year and see few snaps and no jersey doing the year. Like it or not.
It's actually best for him to be qb3 and run the scout team  
ron mexico : 5/13/2019 8:10 pm : link
He will get a lot more work that way.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Distractions is as much as a red herring  
RDJR : 5/13/2019 8:22 pm : link
In comment 14442361 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 14442348 RDJR said:


Quote:


In comment 14442172 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 14442158 RDJR said:


Quote:


In comment 14442152 ron mexico said:


Quote:


as culture, in my view



Fair enough, although Iím sure the first question at the next presser will be, ďwhy is DJ 3rd on the QB depth chart?Ē Maybe not a distraction, but certainly avoidable by bumping Tanney to 3.


Itís incredibly laughable at this point that Giants fans continue to think that Gettleman and/or Shurmur actually give a rats ass about what the media says. The only people that care what the media says are the thin skinned fans that get their panties in a bunch over everything said.

The Giants arenít making any decisions because they are worried about questions from the damned media. Come on now. If thatís not crystal clear to you yet, you should probably pay closer attention. Iíd also recommend stop giving a shit about the media for yourself, too. But thatís your prerogative...



This premise is simply wrong and thank goodness it is. Whether you like it or not professional football is an entertainment business, they are not making widgets. Itís not brain surgery. What the media reports is absolutely something a HC and GM need to concern themselves with in 2019. They may not be ďworriedĒ about questions from the media, but the lesson from the Geno Smith/Eli debacle should be enough to show you that this franchise does react to public sentiment which is driven by the media.

Why would it be crystal clear? That is not the case at all. Making money in an entertainment business means that the public and the media matter. Donít fool yourself by thinking otherwise.


This may be the worst take Iíve seen on this site, and thatís saying something. There is absolutely nothing that shows Gettleman cares about what the mean ole media is gonna say about him or his decisions. The HC and GM should be concerned with what the media reports? Is this for real? They should just name Jones the number two so they donít get asked the question by the media? And because itís 2019?

Holy shitballs. Iím sure glad your sensitive ass isnít running the team. Youíd spend most of your time calling all of the media outlets to make sure the move you were about to make was ok by them because you didnít want them to be mean to you. Again, Gettleman has flown into the face of all conventional wisdom with many of the moves heís made. The media has tried their best to destroy him for it, and he continues to make moves that would suggest he doesnít give a shit about them, their opinions or the fact that they will take out their daggers if you go against the grain. He doesnít care. And he shouldnít. 2019 or not.


Gotta love BBI - hurling insults is its hallmark. Good job.
RE: Rookies start from the bottom  
DavidinBMNY : 5/13/2019 9:05 pm : link
In comment 14441996 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Earn every promotion. Doesn't matter where you are drafted.
I agree with this. Jones will ascend to #2.

Jones will get a ton of work in pre season.
RE: Lol this guy literally got a playbook two weeks ago.  
Klaatu : 5/13/2019 9:35 pm : link
In comment 14442162 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
People need to relax.


No! Let's get all hyper and use this as an opportunity to bash the people we usually bash!

"Round up the usual suspects" and have at it!
Giants and their penchant  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/14/2019 3:49 am : link
For wasting roster spots on mascots and talismans. No friggin reason to waste a spot on Tanny when we have Wolverine Eli ffs and it will really grind me gears to see him taking snaps in preseason away from the youngsters.
RE: Giants and their penchant  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/14/2019 7:06 am : link
In comment 14442673 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
For wasting roster spots on mascots and talismans. No friggin reason to waste a spot on Tanny when we have Wolverine Eli ffs and it will really grind me gears to see him taking snaps in preseason away from the youngsters.

On top of the roster spot they already waste on a dedicated long-snapper! 🙄
Personally, I think this is a non issue.  
Crispino : 5/14/2019 7:34 am : link
Rookie coming in, deference to a veteran for appearancesí sake. It doesnít really mean Tanney is the second string QB. DJ is the de facto backup and heir to the position.
Too early to suggest Tanny  
Jimmy Googs : 5/14/2019 8:03 am : link
made a deal with Herzlich regarding the "pictures"?
RE: He can also  
5BowlsSoon : 5/14/2019 8:29 am : link
In comment 14442039 cjac said:
Quote:
hit both uprights and the crossbar on 1 knee from the 50 yard line


I agree. I donít even know what Tanney has because I canít recall watching him throw a pass. He might have game., Besides, I am in the camp that doesnít want to see Jones take the field this entire year unless we are 4-9.
RE: RE: Tanney is the backup  
UberAlias : 5/14/2019 8:36 am : link
In comment 14442038 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14442033 JonC said:


Quote:


until Jones unseats him.



Not when the guy is the #6 player taken in the draft and the other is the very definition of lower echelon journeyman. All significant reserve snaps should be given to Jones. Then Lauletta when he recovers.
I totally agree, but you are missing something. That may be the normal plan for #6 pick, but that's not NYG plan. Jones is not competing for a starting spot this year. Right or wrong, that's the plan. They will give Eli another shot at the playoffs. And they don't want a QB controversy. The Jones era starts next season.
RE: zero chance all parties at Jints Central  
UberAlias : 5/14/2019 8:40 am : link
In comment 14442396 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
wanted Allen. Not when Chris Mara went to watch Jones's pro day.

Coaching staff may have wanted Allen, that I buy. But zero chance the Mara's and Gettleman wanted Allen over Jones. Maras want a seamless transition.
DG wanted Allen. But Mara didn't want to risk losing Jones.
This circles back to McAdoo putting Geno in before Webb  
JonC : 5/14/2019 10:06 am : link
The head coach wants to win, he's trying to protect his job and the jobs of his coaching staff, etc. Putting in the QB he feels is his best chance to achieve this is going to be HIS priority, not putting in Jones and taking his lumps. That tends to happen when the team's out of the playoff chase, or injury, etc. It happens at each depth spot of the position, any position.
RE: This circles back to McAdoo putting Geno in before Webb  
Go Terps : 5/14/2019 10:56 am : link
In comment 14442988 JonC said:
Quote:
The head coach wants to win, he's trying to protect his job and the jobs of his coaching staff, etc. Putting in the QB he feels is his best chance to achieve this is going to be HIS priority, not putting in Jones and taking his lumps. That tends to happen when the team's out of the playoff chase, or injury, etc. It happens at each depth spot of the position, any position.


Exactly...which is why I think it was incumbent on the front office to make Shurmur's decision for him.

Too many voices, different agendas, and different timelines.
Mara has his fingerprints  
UberAlias : 5/14/2019 11:05 am : link
All over the management of the QB position since the backlash ensuing the Eli benching. Does this really surprise anyone?
Tempest in a teapot  
Now Mike in MD : 5/14/2019 12:20 pm : link
Can we at least wait until training camp to be hysterics over depth charts. Geez
All you Tanney should still be on the team guys out there..  
90.Cal : 5/14/2019 2:40 pm : link
When we start to suck (we probably will) and they pull Eli... I hope your satisfied when they trot Tanney out there and not Daniel because 'Tanney got the backup reps' or because 'Tanney is the QB2'... I will break my TV into 1,000,000 little pieces if they pull Eli out and put in any QB, other than Daniel.
Coughlin  
BigBlueCane : 5/14/2019 2:45 pm : link
had enough comfort to pull Warner for Manning when it was obvious the former was done.

In theory Shurmur should feel the same when the time comes. If he doesn't, that's a strike against him.
RE: Coughlin  
Go Terps : 5/14/2019 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14443478 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
had enough comfort to pull Warner for Manning when it was obvious the former was done.

In theory Shurmur should feel the same when the time comes. If he doesn't, that's a strike against him.


The difference is Warner wasn't a Giants legend. Pulling him for the anointed future of the franchise was easy and popular.

Shurmur has inherited a very different, and far more difficult situation. If we had done something similar to 2004 (say, cut Eli and sign Bridgewater) it would be similar. But will Shurmur be willing to bench a beloved legend? More importantly, will he even be allowed to by ownership?

Part of putting together a plan is to weed out those alternatives that potentially have drastic negative consequences. Yes there is the possibility that the Giants have a good year and Eli goes out on a high, but there is also a possibility that the season is destroyed by the QB issue.
there is that possiblity  
BigBlueCane : 5/15/2019 4:41 pm : link
but the point was Shurmur shouldn't feel pressured to keep Eli starting and in games past the point where it might help the team make the playoffs.

This is turning point season for John Mara as much as it is for Gettleman & Shurmur.

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