Dan Duggan
& #8207;Verified account @DDuggan21
26m26 minutes ago
Today was the first full-team voluntary workouts with rookies joining the vets. Few notes, per source:
QB1: Eli, QB2: Tanney, QB3: Jones. Lauletta didn’t participate as he recovers from knee injury. Dungey worked with TEs.
Mike Remmers was in the building but didn’t participate.
A bad sign when one of your prospects always runs into problems.
A bad sign when one of your prospects always runs into problems.
sounds more like a clean up / maintenance procedure than an injury, but not many details out there.
A bad sign when one of your prospects always runs into problems.
A Darnold phantom injury? JFC you're insufferable.
This
Those 2nd teamers need to be ready to step into the full offense week 1 and some are likely de facto starters (e.g. 3rd WR).
Look, I fully understand rookies earning their stripes, but this is the #6 player in the draft. Tanney shouldn't even be on this roster come September.
Hell, look at Hal Hunter's transcript. He said our 7th round draft pick was going to be second on the depth chart (this was before Remmers signed).
They did the same shit with Webb and Lauletta long after the seasons were lost for zero reason.
There is a real disconnect between what's best for the head coach and what's best for the organization going back several years now.
Jones being the #6 PROBABLY changes things, but not definitely.
Not when the guy is the #6 player taken in the draft and the other is the very definition of lower echelon journeyman. All significant reserve snaps should be given to Jones. Then Lauletta when he recovers.
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until Jones unseats him.
Not when the guy is the #6 player taken in the draft and the other is the very definition of lower echelon journeyman. All significant reserve snaps should be given to Jones. Then Lauletta when he recovers.
As a fan, I agree.
As one who played organized football, it doesn't often work that way. It's earned by demonstrating grasp.
With all respect to Shurmur, and maybe there's legitimately something there no one else see's but him, but are we really ever going to be in a situation where Alex is our guy? Quit wasting time, give Jones some reps.
Frankly, I'd rather see Dungey get reps than Tanney.
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1st voluntary workout? Earth to Shurmur? C'mon man.
Look, I fully understand rookies earning their stripes, but this is the #6 player in the draft. Tanney shouldn't even be on this roster come September.
Hell, look at Hal Hunter's transcript. He said our 7th round draft pick was going to be second on the depth chart (this was before Remmers signed).
*COME SEPTEMBER*....see, I agree with that. And he probably won't be.
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until Jones unseats him.
Not when the guy is the #6 player taken in the draft and the other is the very definition of lower echelon journeyman. All significant reserve snaps should be given to Jones. Then Lauletta when he recovers.
Maybe a little more patience than the first week of voluntary workouts.
If Jones isn't elevated to the #2 QB by the time camp breaks, I'll be surprised, and then you might have a gripe. But this is a marathon. He's just now digesting the playbook, getting familiarized with the organization, getting to know his teammates. No need to rush anything.
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In comment 14442033 JonC said:
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until Jones unseats him.
Not when the guy is the #6 player taken in the draft and the other is the very definition of lower echelon journeyman. All significant reserve snaps should be given to Jones. Then Lauletta when he recovers.
Maybe a little more patience than the first week of voluntary workouts.
If Jones isn't elevated to the #2 QB by the time camp breaks, I'll be surprised, and then you might have a gripe. But this is a marathon. He's just now digesting the playbook, getting familiarized with the organization, getting to know his teammates. No need to rush anything.
While I think Eric is overreacting just a bit I do understand where he is coming from. Under the new CBA the practice time is extremely limited so every rep is important. Jones has no long term future here. Even if Shurmur loves Tanney and wants him to be Jones backup and veteran mentor for the next few years there is no reason to give him more reps than Jones.
God I hope he's not planning to dress Tanney on Game day and have DJ stand in street clothes. Or worse, dress 3 QBs.
For Shurmur priority # 1 every Sunday, is win the game; The development of Jones will not take precedent over that.
Coaches see things differently than fans.
Once Jones knows the offense he's no. 2.
Hopefully Jones is spending more time with the staff getting up-to-speed.
But if anyone other than Jones is no. 2 come training camp, yikes.
Shurmur has an amazing opportunity to prove he's got the guts to do what Coughlin did in 2004.
I was thinking along the same lines, except that maybe he took the turn hard and twisted sideways... ;)
Once Jones knows the offense he's no. 2.
Hopefully Jones is spending more time with the staff getting up-to-speed.
But if anyone other than Jones is no. 2 come training camp, yikes.
Shurmur has an amazing opportunity to prove he's got the guts to do what Coughlin did in 2004.
Per usual, said much better than I could
For Shurmur priority # 1 every Sunday, is win the game; The development of Jones will not take precedent over that.
Coaches see things differently than fans.
There in lies the conflict between win now and building a winner. TC benched Warner for Eli with a winning record, albeit we were headed south. It was the right move to make for the long term prospects of the franchise. Hopefully Shurmur has the long term view in mind. DG’s win now comments certainly don’t help in this regard.
God I hope he's not planning to dress Tanney on Game day and have DJ stand in street clothes. Or worse, dress 3 QBs.
If that happens - and that is an enormous IF - then we'd better start a deep evaluation of the 2020 QB class...
I think it's fine for DJ to earn the 2nd spot. The key though is to give him lots of opportunities.
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Stop playing games. Tanney needs to move down to 3 pronto!
God I hope he's not planning to dress Tanney on Game day and have DJ stand in street clothes. Or worse, dress 3 QBs.
If that happens - and that is an enormous IF - then we'd better start a deep evaluation of the 2020 QB class...
does it really matter? Eli is going to take every snap until he doesn't take any.
I think it's fine for DJ to earn the 2nd spot. The key though is to give him lots of opportunities.
he would probably be better off 3rd running the scout team than being 2nd and getting no work
I'm fine with that if they're operating in a vacuum, but they aren't. Are Jones or Tanney going to get an honest opportunity to unseat Eli in training camp? I doubt it.
There are only so many reps to go around. If I hear that the starters' reps are being divided equally amongst the QBs on the roster, great. Let the best man win. But if one guy is getting the lions' share of reps because of things that happened in '07-'11, before Jones was even in high school, the process is flawed.
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In comment 14442093 ZogZerg said:
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Stop playing games. Tanney needs to move down to 3 pronto!
God I hope he's not planning to dress Tanney on Game day and have DJ stand in street clothes. Or worse, dress 3 QBs.
If that happens - and that is an enormous IF - then we'd better start a deep evaluation of the 2020 QB class...
does it really matter? Eli is going to take every snap until he doesn't take any.
Indeed it does. Because as soon as Eli stops taking those snaps, the only other person who should be taking snaps is Jones. So Jones needs to be ready to go.
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In comment 14442122 bw in dc said:
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In comment 14442093 ZogZerg said:
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Stop playing games. Tanney needs to move down to 3 pronto!
God I hope he's not planning to dress Tanney on Game day and have DJ stand in street clothes. Or worse, dress 3 QBs.
If that happens - and that is an enormous IF - then we'd better start a deep evaluation of the 2020 QB class...
does it really matter? Eli is going to take every snap until he doesn't take any.
Indeed it does. Because as soon as Eli stops taking those snaps, the only other person who should be taking snaps is Jones. So Jones needs to be ready to go.
I get the feeling that like his brother, Eli leaves no snaps behind. So it doesn't matter who is #2. They both will get next to no snaps with the O and get the same prep time in the meeting room.
I think it's fine for DJ to earn the 2nd spot. The key though is to give him lots of opportunities.
The “culture” red herring makes an appearance. The “culture” of the NFL is typically a top 10 draft pick, the 2nd QB drafted, is higher on the depth chart than the likes of Alex Tanney. Shurmur may have inadvertently caused an unnecessary PR issue, as evidenced by this thread. Don’t need distractions.
Fair enough, although I’m sure the first question at the next presser will be, “why is DJ 3rd on the QB depth chart?” Maybe not a distraction, but certainly avoidable by bumping Tanney to 3.
Indeed it does. Because as soon as Eli stops taking those snaps, the only other person who should be taking snaps is Jones. So Jones needs to be ready to go.
I get the feeling that like his brother, Eli leaves no snaps behind. So it doesn't matter who is #2. They both will get next to no snaps with the O and get the same prep time in the meeting room.
The last thing this organization needs is the #6 QB taking a red-shirt year...
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as culture, in my view
Fair enough, although I’m sure the first question at the next presser will be, “why is DJ 3rd on the QB depth chart?” Maybe not a distraction, but certainly avoidable by bumping Tanney to 3.
It’s incredibly laughable at this point that Giants fans continue to think that Gettleman and/or Shurmur actually give a rats ass about what the media says. The only people that care what the media says are the thin skinned fans that get their panties in a bunch over everything said.
The Giants aren’t making any decisions because they are worried about questions from the damned media. Come on now. If that’s not crystal clear to you yet, you should probably pay closer attention. I’d also recommend stop giving a shit about the media for yourself, too. But that’s your prerogative...
Is Eli being held to that same standard, or is he also on scholarship?
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That's important to the cohesion of the team, but also to getting away from the much-derided "scholarship mentality" that plagued the Giants in recent years. How they got him (#6 overall pick) is less important than how he performs.
Is Eli being held to that same standard, or is he also on scholarship?
Eli knows the playbook. Does Jones know the entire playbook two weeks after he was drafted?
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That's important to the cohesion of the team, but also to getting away from the much-derided "scholarship mentality" that plagued the Giants in recent years. How they got him (#6 overall pick) is less important than how he performs.
Is Eli being held to that same standard, or is he also on scholarship?
He is on Maraship
Eli knows the playbook. Does Jones know the entire playbook two weeks after he was drafted?
Right. Whether Eli can consistently execute those plays at 38 is the concern.
I feel reasonably good about this - Jones seems to have the capacity to make unscheduled plays to keep drives alive that Eli can't. For that critical ability along - an ability that Shurmur covets - the fair thing to do would be to give Jones a chance to actually compete for the job with Eli.
The decision will have to be made for Shurmur by the people above him. That's the only way Jones gets on the field.
The Giants think they're doing right by Eli, but they aren't. They are setting him up for one last indignity.
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In comment 14442152 ron mexico said:
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as culture, in my view
Fair enough, although I’m sure the first question at the next presser will be, “why is DJ 3rd on the QB depth chart?” Maybe not a distraction, but certainly avoidable by bumping Tanney to 3.
It’s incredibly laughable at this point that Giants fans continue to think that Gettleman and/or Shurmur actually give a rats ass about what the media says. The only people that care what the media says are the thin skinned fans that get their panties in a bunch over everything said.
The Giants aren’t making any decisions because they are worried about questions from the damned media. Come on now. If that’s not crystal clear to you yet, you should probably pay closer attention. I’d also recommend stop giving a shit about the media for yourself, too. But that’s your prerogative...
This premise is simply wrong and thank goodness it is. Whether you like it or not professional football is an entertainment business, they are not making widgets. It’s not brain surgery. What the media reports is absolutely something a HC and GM need to concern themselves with in 2019. They may not be “worried” about questions from the media, but the lesson from the Geno Smith/Eli debacle should be enough to show you that this franchise does react to public sentiment which is driven by the media.
Why would it be crystal clear? That is not the case at all. Making money in an entertainment business means that the public and the media matter. Don’t fool yourself by thinking otherwise.
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In comment 14442158 RDJR said:
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In comment 14442152 ron mexico said:
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as culture, in my view
Fair enough, although I’m sure the first question at the next presser will be, “why is DJ 3rd on the QB depth chart?” Maybe not a distraction, but certainly avoidable by bumping Tanney to 3.
It’s incredibly laughable at this point that Giants fans continue to think that Gettleman and/or Shurmur actually give a rats ass about what the media says. The only people that care what the media says are the thin skinned fans that get their panties in a bunch over everything said.
The Giants aren’t making any decisions because they are worried about questions from the damned media. Come on now. If that’s not crystal clear to you yet, you should probably pay closer attention. I’d also recommend stop giving a shit about the media for yourself, too. But that’s your prerogative...
This premise is simply wrong and thank goodness it is. Whether you like it or not professional football is an entertainment business, they are not making widgets. It’s not brain surgery. What the media reports is absolutely something a HC and GM need to concern themselves with in 2019. They may not be “worried” about questions from the media, but the lesson from the Geno Smith/Eli debacle should be enough to show you that this franchise does react to public sentiment which is driven by the media.
Why would it be crystal clear? That is not the case at all. Making money in an entertainment business means that the public and the media matter. Don’t fool yourself by thinking otherwise.
This may be the worst take I’ve seen on this site, and that’s saying something. There is absolutely nothing that shows Gettleman cares about what the mean ole media is gonna say about him or his decisions. The HC and GM should be concerned with what the media reports? Is this for real? They should just name Jones the number two so they don’t get asked the question by the media? And because it’s 2019?
Holy shitballs. I’m sure glad your sensitive ass isn’t running the team. You’d spend most of your time calling all of the media outlets to make sure the move you were about to make was ok by them because you didn’t want them to be mean to you. Again, Gettleman has flown into the face of all conventional wisdom with many of the moves he’s made. The media has tried their best to destroy him for it, and he continues to make moves that would suggest he doesn’t give a shit about them, their opinions or the fact that they will take out their daggers if you go against the grain. He doesn’t care. And he shouldn’t. 2019 or not.
Exactly.
If Eli gets hurt early in the season it may still be Tanney that goes into the game, not Jones. Like any rookie he needs a little time
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In comment 14442093 ZogZerg said:
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Stop playing games. Tanney needs to move down to 3 pronto!
God I hope he's not planning to dress Tanney on Game day and have DJ stand in street clothes. Or worse, dress 3 QBs.
If that happens - and that is an enormous IF - then we'd better start a deep evaluation of the 2020 QB class...
does it really matter? Eli is going to take every snap until he doesn't take any.
If Eli were to get hurt, any snaps given to Tanney over Jones are a waste. There is something to be said for player development.
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In comment 14442122 bw in dc said:
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In comment 14442093 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Stop playing games. Tanney needs to move down to 3 pronto!
God I hope he's not planning to dress Tanney on Game day and have DJ stand in street clothes. Or worse, dress 3 QBs.
If that happens - and that is an enormous IF - then we'd better start a deep evaluation of the 2020 QB class...
does it really matter? Eli is going to take every snap until he doesn't take any.
If Eli were to get hurt, any snaps given to Tanney over Jones are a waste. There is something to be said for player development.
Once the season starts, you are talking 0-5 snaps a week. Probably closer to 0 most weeks
The decision will have to be made for Shurmur by the people above him. That's the only way Jones gets on the field.
If I had to guess, all parties at Jints Central wanted to draft Allen. But they - well Gettleman - got bluffed by the intel and basically hit the panic button with Jones.
Allen was an "add water and stir" pick. He would start right away and bolster a big need. Instead, it looks like we are going to stow away a much younger, more athletic QB so the 38 year old incumbent can keep trying to enhance his legacy.
And, to your point, Shurmur is okay with that because he needs to demonstrate his can build a winning NFL program. Otherwise, he'll enter the permanent OC circuit.
Coaching staff may have wanted Allen, that I buy. But zero chance the Mara's and Gettleman wanted Allen over Jones. Maras want a seamless transition.
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In comment 14442172 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 14442158 RDJR said:
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In comment 14442152 ron mexico said:
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as culture, in my view
Fair enough, although I’m sure the first question at the next presser will be, “why is DJ 3rd on the QB depth chart?” Maybe not a distraction, but certainly avoidable by bumping Tanney to 3.
It’s incredibly laughable at this point that Giants fans continue to think that Gettleman and/or Shurmur actually give a rats ass about what the media says. The only people that care what the media says are the thin skinned fans that get their panties in a bunch over everything said.
The Giants aren’t making any decisions because they are worried about questions from the damned media. Come on now. If that’s not crystal clear to you yet, you should probably pay closer attention. I’d also recommend stop giving a shit about the media for yourself, too. But that’s your prerogative...
This premise is simply wrong and thank goodness it is. Whether you like it or not professional football is an entertainment business, they are not making widgets. It’s not brain surgery. What the media reports is absolutely something a HC and GM need to concern themselves with in 2019. They may not be “worried” about questions from the media, but the lesson from the Geno Smith/Eli debacle should be enough to show you that this franchise does react to public sentiment which is driven by the media.
Why would it be crystal clear? That is not the case at all. Making money in an entertainment business means that the public and the media matter. Don’t fool yourself by thinking otherwise.
This may be the worst take I’ve seen on this site, and that’s saying something. There is absolutely nothing that shows Gettleman cares about what the mean ole media is gonna say about him or his decisions. The HC and GM should be concerned with what the media reports? Is this for real? They should just name Jones the number two so they don’t get asked the question by the media? And because it’s 2019?
Holy shitballs. I’m sure glad your sensitive ass isn’t running the team. You’d spend most of your time calling all of the media outlets to make sure the move you were about to make was ok by them because you didn’t want them to be mean to you. Again, Gettleman has flown into the face of all conventional wisdom with many of the moves he’s made. The media has tried their best to destroy him for it, and he continues to make moves that would suggest he doesn’t give a shit about them, their opinions or the fact that they will take out their daggers if you go against the grain. He doesn’t care. And he shouldn’t. 2019 or not.
Gotta love BBI - hurling insults is its hallmark. Good job.
Jones will get a ton of work in pre season.
No! Let's get all hyper and use this as an opportunity to bash the people we usually bash!
"Round up the usual suspects" and have at it!
On top of the roster spot they already waste on a dedicated long-snapper! 🙄
I agree. I don’t even know what Tanney has because I can’t recall watching him throw a pass. He might have game., Besides, I am in the camp that doesn’t want to see Jones take the field this entire year unless we are 4-9.
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until Jones unseats him.
Not when the guy is the #6 player taken in the draft and the other is the very definition of lower echelon journeyman. All significant reserve snaps should be given to Jones. Then Lauletta when he recovers.
Coaching staff may have wanted Allen, that I buy. But zero chance the Mara's and Gettleman wanted Allen over Jones. Maras want a seamless transition.
Exactly...which is why I think it was incumbent on the front office to make Shurmur's decision for him.
Too many voices, different agendas, and different timelines.
In theory Shurmur should feel the same when the time comes. If he doesn't, that's a strike against him.
In theory Shurmur should feel the same when the time comes. If he doesn't, that's a strike against him.
The difference is Warner wasn't a Giants legend. Pulling him for the anointed future of the franchise was easy and popular.
Shurmur has inherited a very different, and far more difficult situation. If we had done something similar to 2004 (say, cut Eli and sign Bridgewater) it would be similar. But will Shurmur be willing to bench a beloved legend? More importantly, will he even be allowed to by ownership?
Part of putting together a plan is to weed out those alternatives that potentially have drastic negative consequences. Yes there is the possibility that the Giants have a good year and Eli goes out on a high, but there is also a possibility that the season is destroyed by the QB issue.
This is turning point season for John Mara as much as it is for Gettleman & Shurmur.