He still owns a house in Philly and comes back fairly often because he has a lot of family in the Philly area. He’s super excited to get to work in KC. I’m rooting for him.
He still owns a house in Philly and comes back fairly often because he has a lot of family in the Philly area. He’s super excited to get to work in KC. I’m rooting for him.
Weird.
Boston guy.
Won in NY.
Lives in Philly, though Trenton really isn’t a Philly suburb.
while also recognizing that he was DC for three of the worst defensive units in NFL history. He's a profoundly mediocre DC who did push all the right buttons at the right time during an amazing run in 2007.
I’m surprised the Giants didn’t hire Sutton. That would be par for the Â
He still owns a house in Philly and comes back fairly often because he has a lot of family in the Philly area. He’s super excited to get to work in KC. I’m rooting for him.
Weird.
Boston guy.
Won in NY.
Lives in Philly, though Trenton really isn’t a Philly suburb.
Never said it was. I live outside of Trenton, not Spags. My golf shop he frequents is in Philly. He doesn’t live in Philly full time. He has a house in Philly that he kept because he has a lot of relatives in the area. He did work for the Eagles before the Giants, you know.
that KC D had troubles LAST year, and since then has lost Dee Ford, Justin Houston, and I don't know who else, but prolly someone of note among their starting DBs.
Then he'll get labeled with the blame for why their D sucks this year...
Did they pick up Clark from Seattle? He should help.
while also recognizing that he was DC for three of the worst defensive units in NFL history. He's a profoundly mediocre DC who did push all the right buttons at the right time during an amazing run in 2007.
Were twe outright terrible hiring from a clueless org. Accorssi strategy of amassing pass rushers were no longer viable, and to bring back Spags for nostalgic sentimentality is the opposite of forward thinking.
Reid is familiar with him from their days in Philly, so the communication between HC and DC should be good and that's half the battle (from the HC's POV). And his Super Bowl ring should help sell his system to the players, which is half the battle (from the DC's POV). But if injuries deplete their pass rushing talent, forget about Spags getting the whole to be greater than the sum of the parts.
Funny thing was Spags was the originator of the Four Aces which Fewell later rebranded as the NASCAR package (if I'm remembering correctly). It seemed to suggest an innovative mind, bucking convention in order to get his eleven best players on the field, and doing it successfully. It turned out to be the only rabbit in his hat (and the rabbit died).
Wish him nothing but the best as long as it is not against the Giants. If he has the pass rushers and everyone stays healthy, his scheme does work. The problem is when you are not getting pressure and/or have to fill in on the fly with players who don’t recognize the reads of their teammates it looks like utter chaos.
while also recognizing that he was DC for three of the worst defensive units in NFL history. He's a profoundly mediocre DC who did push all the right buttons at the right time during an amazing run in 2007.
And 2008. And 2016.
And 2012. And 2015. And 2017.
Here's a fun quote from an article written when Spagnuolo emerged as the frontrunner for the Chiefs DC job:
Quote:
He was brought back by the Giants to be the coordinator the following seasons and he once again finished last in total defense in 2015. Over the last seven seasons, Spagnuolo has spent time with 3 different teams and has a defensive average of 25th overall.
Like I said, profoundly mediocre. And that average of 25th overall includes a top ten defense in 2016. Remove that, and his average is 28th, with two separate seasons of the worst defense in the league (2012 and 2015), and another second worst (2017). It's one thing to point out that he hasn't always had the horses, and while that is true, a good DC should be better than bottom quartile even with a bad roster.
Spags defense style could be well suited to Chiefs
he won't have to worry about lethargic offense unable to move the football or score
The 2012 Saints and 2015 Giants each had top ten offenses and Spags posted the #32 defense each time. A lethargic offense isn't the problem with his defense.
while also recognizing that he was DC for three of the worst defensive units in NFL history. He's a profoundly mediocre DC who did push all the right buttons at the right time during an amazing run in 2007.
And 2008. And 2016.
And 2012. And 2015. And 2017.
Here's a fun quote from an article written when Spagnuolo emerged as the frontrunner for the Chiefs DC job:
Quote:
He was brought back by the Giants to be the coordinator the following seasons and he once again finished last in total defense in 2015. Over the last seven seasons, Spagnuolo has spent time with 3 different teams and has a defensive average of 25th overall.
Steve Spagnuolo is not right hire for Chiefs
Like I said, profoundly mediocre. And that average of 25th overall includes a top ten defense in 2016. Remove that, and his average is 28th, with two separate seasons of the worst defense in the league (2012 and 2015), and another second worst (2017). It's one thing to point out that he hasn't always had the horses, and while that is true, a good DC should be better than bottom quartile even with a bad roster. Spags - Pro Football Reference - ( New Window )
We can have a discussion about what he is or isn't as a coach, but boiling down his career to "one good run" in 2007 is leaving out a lot of very high level success to try to skew the point a certain way.
And so is leaving out the conditions with which he had to run a defense with in new orleans and new york in 2015.
Everybody seems to recognize that the Giants didn't have talent on defense last season, so why are we giving Better the benefit of understanding while he finished with a bottom 5 defense but another coordinator that led excellent units gets marginalized?
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'll always be grateful for 2007 Â
while also recognizing that he was DC for three of the worst defensive units in NFL history. He's a profoundly mediocre DC who did push all the right buttons at the right time during an amazing run in 2007.
And 2008. And 2016.
And 2012. And 2015. And 2017.
Here's a fun quote from an article written when Spagnuolo emerged as the frontrunner for the Chiefs DC job:
Quote:
He was brought back by the Giants to be the coordinator the following seasons and he once again finished last in total defense in 2015. Over the last seven seasons, Spagnuolo has spent time with 3 different teams and has a defensive average of 25th overall.
Steve Spagnuolo is not right hire for Chiefs
Like I said, profoundly mediocre. And that average of 25th overall includes a top ten defense in 2016. Remove that, and his average is 28th, with two separate seasons of the worst defense in the league (2012 and 2015), and another second worst (2017). It's one thing to point out that he hasn't always had the horses, and while that is true, a good DC should be better than bottom quartile even with a bad roster. Spags - Pro Football Reference - ( New Window )
We can have a discussion about what he is or isn't as a coach, but boiling down his career to "one good run" in 2007 is leaving out a lot of very high level success to try to skew the point a certain way.
And so is leaving out the conditions with which he had to run a defense with in new orleans and new york in 2015.
Everybody seems to recognize that the Giants didn't have talent on defense last season, so why are we giving Better the benefit of understanding while he finished with a bottom 5 defense but another coordinator that led excellent units gets marginalized?
Spags has led units that are not only last in the league (and done so multiple times) but that are historically bad in league history. That tells me that the good seasons were much more likely to be lightning in a bottle than the bad seasons were outliers. Even an undermanned DC who actually is worth his salt shouldn't twice have the worst defense in the league (and come just 78 yards from doing it a third time).
At some point, a legitimately good DC would be able to scheme around his talent or lack thereof, not break the record for most yards allowed in NFL history, and then almost do the same thing three years later (but ended up with "only" the third worst defense in NFL history that time).
There is something fundamentally wrong with a defensive scheme that is overly reliant on one aspect of play to such an extent that without it, the entire scheme literally becomes the worst in football. That's Spagnuolo's defense though. It's feast or famine, and the famine will starve you to death.
Like the rest of us he was ruined by his roster under the last management administration. Wish him well.
Yeah, he was ruined by the last management administration. That explains him being DC of the worst defense in NFL history with an entirely different franchise.
Spags is an easy guy to root for and was part of some of the most cherished memories most Giants fans have. I absolutely understand why some fans continue to hold him in extremely high esteem. That doesn't mean he doesn't have some really bad blemishes on his resume that are at least as significant as the highlights. Some of his failures are entirely based on his scheme and strategy itself, regardless of the ineptitude of the Giants' front office during his second stint here.
At some point, a legitimately good DC would be able to scheme around his talent or lack thereof, not break the record for most yards allowed in NFL history, and then almost do the same thing three years later (but ended up with "only" the third worst defense in NFL history that time).
The defensive coordinator who holds the record for most passing yards allowed is Dom Capers (4796, 2011), a guy who won an NFL Coach of the Year award in his career and won a super bowl as defensive coordinator the very season before.
I'm not sure who all these coaches are who scheme around their lack of talent to any meaningful way, there aren't many examples that come to mind. But while we're playing the comparative game, Bettcher is a good DC with a track record.
A while back machine - ( New Window )
What coach other than Belichick doesn't depend on his players?
Weird.
Boston guy.
Won in NY.
Lives in Philly, though Trenton really isn’t a Philly suburb.
He was part of the problem? We won a Super Bowl with him. Knowing what has transpired you don't think it was the roster?????
Quote:
when he has a DL that can rush the passer with 4 men.
He was part of the problem? We won a Super Bowl with him. Knowing what has transpired you don't think it was the roster?????
It depends. Was it the roster that hamstrung Perry Fewell?
Quote:
He still owns a house in Philly and comes back fairly often because he has a lot of family in the Philly area. He’s super excited to get to work in KC. I’m rooting for him.
Weird.
Boston guy.
Won in NY.
Lives in Philly, though Trenton really isn’t a Philly suburb.
Never said it was. I live outside of Trenton, not Spags. My golf shop he frequents is in Philly. He doesn’t live in Philly full time. He has a house in Philly that he kept because he has a lot of relatives in the area. He did work for the Eagles before the Giants, you know.
Then he'll get labeled with the blame for why their D sucks this year...
Did they pick up Clark from Seattle? He should help.
And 2008. And 2016.
Funny thing was Spags was the originator of the Four Aces which Fewell later rebranded as the NASCAR package (if I'm remembering correctly). It seemed to suggest an innovative mind, bucking convention in order to get his eleven best players on the field, and doing it successfully. It turned out to be the only rabbit in his hat (and the rabbit died).
Quote:
while also recognizing that he was DC for three of the worst defensive units in NFL history. He's a profoundly mediocre DC who did push all the right buttons at the right time during an amazing run in 2007.
And 2008. And 2016.
And 2012. And 2015. And 2017.
Here's a fun quote from an article written when Spagnuolo emerged as the frontrunner for the Chiefs DC job:
Steve Spagnuolo is not right hire for Chiefs
Like I said, profoundly mediocre. And that average of 25th overall includes a top ten defense in 2016. Remove that, and his average is 28th, with two separate seasons of the worst defense in the league (2012 and 2015), and another second worst (2017). It's one thing to point out that he hasn't always had the horses, and while that is true, a good DC should be better than bottom quartile even with a bad roster.
Spags - Pro Football Reference - ( New Window )
he won't have to worry about lethargic offense unable to move the football or score
he won't have to worry about lethargic offense unable to move the football or score
The 2012 Saints and 2015 Giants each had top ten offenses and Spags posted the #32 defense each time. A lethargic offense isn't the problem with his defense.
Quote:
In comment 14442370 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
while also recognizing that he was DC for three of the worst defensive units in NFL history. He's a profoundly mediocre DC who did push all the right buttons at the right time during an amazing run in 2007.
And 2008. And 2016.
And 2012. And 2015. And 2017.
Here's a fun quote from an article written when Spagnuolo emerged as the frontrunner for the Chiefs DC job:
Quote:
He was brought back by the Giants to be the coordinator the following seasons and he once again finished last in total defense in 2015. Over the last seven seasons, Spagnuolo has spent time with 3 different teams and has a defensive average of 25th overall.
Steve Spagnuolo is not right hire for Chiefs
Like I said, profoundly mediocre. And that average of 25th overall includes a top ten defense in 2016. Remove that, and his average is 28th, with two separate seasons of the worst defense in the league (2012 and 2015), and another second worst (2017). It's one thing to point out that he hasn't always had the horses, and while that is true, a good DC should be better than bottom quartile even with a bad roster. Spags - Pro Football Reference - ( New Window )
We can have a discussion about what he is or isn't as a coach, but boiling down his career to "one good run" in 2007 is leaving out a lot of very high level success to try to skew the point a certain way.
And so is leaving out the conditions with which he had to run a defense with in new orleans and new york in 2015.
Everybody seems to recognize that the Giants didn't have talent on defense last season, so why are we giving Better the benefit of understanding while he finished with a bottom 5 defense but another coordinator that led excellent units gets marginalized?
Quote:
In comment 14442631 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14442370 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
while also recognizing that he was DC for three of the worst defensive units in NFL history. He's a profoundly mediocre DC who did push all the right buttons at the right time during an amazing run in 2007.
And 2008. And 2016.
And 2012. And 2015. And 2017.
Here's a fun quote from an article written when Spagnuolo emerged as the frontrunner for the Chiefs DC job:
Quote:
He was brought back by the Giants to be the coordinator the following seasons and he once again finished last in total defense in 2015. Over the last seven seasons, Spagnuolo has spent time with 3 different teams and has a defensive average of 25th overall.
Steve Spagnuolo is not right hire for Chiefs
Like I said, profoundly mediocre. And that average of 25th overall includes a top ten defense in 2016. Remove that, and his average is 28th, with two separate seasons of the worst defense in the league (2012 and 2015), and another second worst (2017). It's one thing to point out that he hasn't always had the horses, and while that is true, a good DC should be better than bottom quartile even with a bad roster. Spags - Pro Football Reference - ( New Window )
We can have a discussion about what he is or isn't as a coach, but boiling down his career to "one good run" in 2007 is leaving out a lot of very high level success to try to skew the point a certain way.
And so is leaving out the conditions with which he had to run a defense with in new orleans and new york in 2015.
Everybody seems to recognize that the Giants didn't have talent on defense last season, so why are we giving Better the benefit of understanding while he finished with a bottom 5 defense but another coordinator that led excellent units gets marginalized?
Spags has led units that are not only last in the league (and done so multiple times) but that are historically bad in league history. That tells me that the good seasons were much more likely to be lightning in a bottle than the bad seasons were outliers. Even an undermanned DC who actually is worth his salt shouldn't twice have the worst defense in the league (and come just 78 yards from doing it a third time).
At some point, a legitimately good DC would be able to scheme around his talent or lack thereof, not break the record for most yards allowed in NFL history, and then almost do the same thing three years later (but ended up with "only" the third worst defense in NFL history that time).
There is something fundamentally wrong with a defensive scheme that is overly reliant on one aspect of play to such an extent that without it, the entire scheme literally becomes the worst in football. That's Spagnuolo's defense though. It's feast or famine, and the famine will starve you to death.
Yeah, he was ruined by the last management administration. That explains him being DC of the worst defense in NFL history with an entirely different franchise.
Spags is an easy guy to root for and was part of some of the most cherished memories most Giants fans have. I absolutely understand why some fans continue to hold him in extremely high esteem. That doesn't mean he doesn't have some really bad blemishes on his resume that are at least as significant as the highlights. Some of his failures are entirely based on his scheme and strategy itself, regardless of the ineptitude of the Giants' front office during his second stint here.
He excels (something that can't be said for a lot of coaches).
From what I saw of him, players play hard for him. He seems like a very decent man too. It's easy to root for him.
At some point, a legitimately good DC would be able to scheme around his talent or lack thereof, not break the record for most yards allowed in NFL history, and then almost do the same thing three years later (but ended up with "only" the third worst defense in NFL history that time).
The defensive coordinator who holds the record for most passing yards allowed is Dom Capers (4796, 2011), a guy who won an NFL Coach of the Year award in his career and won a super bowl as defensive coordinator the very season before.
I'm not sure who all these coaches are who scheme around their lack of talent to any meaningful way, there aren't many examples that come to mind. But while we're playing the comparative game, Bettcher is a good DC with a track record.
Bettcher's 2018 defense allowed 412 points, 4047 passing yards, and 1898 yards rushing.
Spaguolo's unit in 2015 allowed 438 points, 4783 passing yards and 1942 rushing yards