Giants Fans...what are your thoughts on Shurmer

...with a very suspect head coaching record:

Cleveland Browns
2011 (4-12)
2012 (5-12)

Philadelphia Eagles (Interim)
2015 (1-0)

New York Giants
2018 (5-12)

Very easy to argue that he didn't have very much in his three full years as head coach, so he has that going for him.

My guess is that the real pressure on him is not necessarily posting a winning record in 2019, but if he ends up with losing records in both 2019 and 2020, then he is gone.

I like his demeaner, seems like a good man.....there are things I like and there are things I dont....winning cures everything

Not convinced he s the guy, but won’t overreact and join the crowd that wants him gone now.

His head coaching resume is abysmal, but the circumstances surrounding that record should be considered.

However, losing can become a habit so he needs to start winning sooner rather than later.

But for what it is worth, for now, I m undecided on him as the Giants coach.

But I m guessing the Giants wouldn’t put much stock in my opinion 😄

In comment 14442645 Torrag said:

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I like the guy he is. The roster he had last season was cruddy. I like his offensive scheme and playcalling. As a time manager and game decision coach he didn't impress me last season. So for me the jury is still out and this season will be the determining factor and it's not all about wins and losses for me.

Great post! My thoughts exactly and I would add that he is very good with the media which is not easy in NY/NJ.

I want him to be successful.

In comment 14442635 Diversify yo bonds said:

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Honestly, every team should have someone on staff to tell the hc when to call timeouts and how to min/max exposure with regard to the clock. An alarming number of coaches share this deficiency.

Parcels used to use Ray Handley in that role if I recall. Not such a far-fetched idea.

I haven't been blown away with him, but I did like how he held the team together still fighting after they had nothing left to play for.

And to be fair, I feel the same way about DG. I was never a fan of either hire.

He seems pretty milk toast. Everything I heard about him is how good he is with developing QBs...so I hope we see that in his relationship with Dr. Jones.

He has a great chance ot show what he can do during the 2020 season. That;s the key year imo the team should have enough talent between another draft and FA to show us what they all got.

The same with DG the same with JB etc.

In comment 14442802 Bold Ruler said:

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He seems pretty milk toast.

I divide coaches into two branches, Landry and Lombardi. Parcells was on the Lombardi branch. Coughlin too. Shurmur lands on the Landry branch. Same with Belichick, Bill Walsh, and Joe Gibbs. I kind of prefer the Landry branch. I think it gives you a better chance for sustainable success.
p.s.--There's a third branch which I call the Hank Stram branch, but we won't go there.

a definite opinion on a guy that is here only one year and inherited a steaming pile of shit of a team. He did eff up a couple games with clock management. He did start 1-7, but kept the team together, finished relatively strong despite injuries and players being dealt.
My initial assessment is that he is pretty decent, but let's see what happens this year. Clock management needs to improve for sure(and some game management, too.)

As far as previous time with Cleveland - means nothing. Cleveland was an even bigger pile of shit than the Giants and their GMs sucked worse.

Also, Parcells was 3-12-1 in his 1st season and he had better talent than what Shurmur had last year.

In comment 14442617 Joey in VA said:

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He's calm cool and collected with the press and he's a former OL who knows what it takes to win. He's got a presence, he's honest, and he is sincere about winning and integrity, that's enough for me. I have seen winners and I think he is one. He's a steady hand with a good football mind, that's not a bad combination.

yes i fully agree w this assessment. He got kneecapped in Cleveland. Thats not going to happen here. He has a good talent evaluator team builder in Gettledog too

He's a very likable guy and easy to root for. Kind of reminds me of Steve Spagnuolo in that way.

Definitely understands what it takes to win games and has shown to be imaginative in his play-calling, which is very refreshing.

My only gripe about him really, is that some of his decisions (timeouts, challenges) late in games have been questionable. I'd like to see that improve. I think he's a guy you can win with though.

is pretty flat. There are some select, excellent coaches, and a lot of average coaches.


Excellent coaches elevate talent around them. Average coaches depend more heavily on roster construction and having the necessary playmakers and coaching staff. I'd say Shurmur needs a good team built for him that he can manage.

and the talent level was poor but my God was he brutal at clock mgmt, personnel usage, etc, last season.

I could have killed him during the second Philly game last year. Wanted him dead. The awfulness that was the end of the 1st half of the Atlanta game was beyond piss poor too.

Absolutely no excuse for that.

His record speaks for itself.

Saying he's an improvement on McAdoo? I'm not even sure that's true.

and I always root for nice people to succeed, but last year was not promising and it was more than the game management in the Philly game. We lost a lot of close games and he mismanaged many of those loses.

too many basic mistakes with clock management, decisions, personnel, sometimes shows no feel for the game flow.

Seems like a decent man, might be best suited to OC.

In comment 14442909 JonC said:

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too many basic mistakes with clock management, decisions, personnel, sometimes shows no feel for the game flow. Seems like a decent man, might be best suited to OC.

Nailed it ... he’s a great OC in over his head - and it shows during in-game mismanagement

had a really rough start, remember the interview I think after week one on Francesca. Just brutal. Having to deal with Flowers failure. As the season went on all under duress I started to think he may be able to make a difference. I hope I am right as he is a good person who took on this job that I am sure he knew would be difficult with Eli's career winding down and a rebuild coming.

In comment 14442567 RicosRoidedElbow said:

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What is he? 5-79 in his coaching career? Guy is Grade A loser, we'll worry about spelling his name correctly when he wins.

5/19! What dupe is this? Guesses?

he spent plenty of time reviewing his in game mgmt. from last season and it won't repeat itself.

You have to scout yourself too.

.

He is just an average head Coach his offense looks ok but that maybe because we compare it to McAdoo which was a joke around the league. However, the guy needs to put together a .500 season or close to it or he is gone his overall record speaks for itself.

I'm over him -- but right now I think he's a good coach

btw -- Peterson was awful in his first year and made similar clock management boo boos --

his play calling seemed repetitive. either that or we sucked so bad eli kept checking down/bailing on the play.

i still don't understand the QB whisperer label he gets. who besides keenum has he built up?

In comment 14442597 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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He lost us that Eagles game in Philly.

He lost the game? Really? The coach who did not play one down?

In comment 14442690 M.S. said:

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...with a very suspect head coaching record: Cleveland Browns 2011 (4-12) 2012 (5-12) Philadelphia Eagles (Interim) 2015 (1-0) New York Giants 2018 (5-12) Very easy to argue that he didn't have very much in his three full years as head coach, so he has that going for him. My guess is that the real pressure on him is not necessarily posting a winning record in 2019, but if he ends up with losing records in both 2019 and 2020, then he is gone.

He Won 9 games in 2 years in Cleveland. Going into 2018, Cleveland had won 11 games in the four seasons after his firing. Lets not judge him too much based on the Circus that has been Cleveland since '99

This year and next will determine whether he was the right choice. Both W's and L's and DJ's development.

In comment 14443052 Platos said:

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his play calling seemed repetitive. either that or we sucked so bad eli kept checking down/bailing on the play. i still don't understand the QB whisperer label he gets. who besides keenum has he built up?

he is credited with foles and bradford having had good seasons.

In comment 14443047 gidiefor said:

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I'm over him

Got a chuckle out of me, thanks!

In comment 14443244 djstat said:

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In comment 14442597 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: He lost us that Eagles game in Philly. He lost the game? Really? The coach who did not play one down?

Well, the coach who decides what players play, yeah.

Bad hire along with the worse hire of Gettelman. Now bad QB decision, we will be hoping for an Eli extension. For real, this fish stinks from head to tail.

In comment 14442597 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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He lost us that Eagles game in Philly.

Looking back now, I’m glad he did. We may have been drafting at 10 or thereabouts instead of 6.

We have to look at his body of work. He carries himself well and is well spoken and appears to have common sense. Coaching is truly the most underrated aspect of the NFL game. It doesn't always fall on the head coaches ability to coach but all the coaches he surrounds himself with that will make a difference in the product that's put on the field.

With that said I'm comfortable with Shurmur... We'll have a better idea after his 2nd year....

Nothing unique or special about him.

I just don't know if he has that special trait to be a "winner" just yet because he hasn't been a winner yet.

This year is key because he has many challenges:
-new QB controversy? Eli or D. Jones?? And When???
-new defensive personnel. How does it work out? When???
-new OL. It must mesh for him to have a winning season
-motivation. the lockerroom is cleaned up so do they stay on their game, week in and week out?

I still believe this team is heading for 9 - 7, give or take a game, unless we have injuries at key spots. The key to our having a winning season is stealing some early season wins.

I really want to beat Dallas opening day in their house. That would be HUGE.

was change. We began showing new alignments, new plays, new ways to get SB, EE, etc. involved.

He didn't kill it in his first year. I admit, that would have been a very tall order. For DG & Shurmur, it is all about this year. I need to see significant improvement. If we are healthy and are not a much better team, he needs to go. 5 wins is not good enough. I do not care if we were close to more wins, we were also close to more losses.

Interestingly, he acts the way our GM should act. As mentioned, he really needs to refine his in-game coaching. But I think that's fixable.

He's in a real bind because he needs to win to demonstrate that he has the goods to be an NFL HC. And he's stuck with a 38 year old QB who is almost the antithesis to what Shurmur wants in a QB.

Meanwhile, his GM seems more interested in solving for the future. Although Gettleman tries to market this year as if we can compete for big things and prepare for the future simultaneously.

Ironically, I think Shurmur wants to go with Eli but Jones has more physical tools that would actually be better for his offensive approach.

"I've got to think short term, and I've got to think long term. That's the box I'm in. That's the position I'm in. Coaches have to win now, and I ask myself -- I've told you guys a million times, I ask myself that question: am I giving Pat and the guys enough players to win with? OK? And really, you know, it's tough."


They were scoring 28 points a game without Beckham at the end of last season. That should have been enough to win several more games if they'd had even a middle-of-the pack defense.

Let's see what Pat's supposedly "great offensive mind" can do with a nicely-upgraded OL that protects his QB much better and helps his run game -- especially in the last 4 minutes trying to hold a lead. Plus a big infusion of youth on defense.

I agree he should have some game management help so things like Philly don't happen again. That's such a no-brainer that it probably even occurred to Giants management. Let's hope.

Put it this way -- I don't think Shurmer was the problem last year.

In comment 14442909 JonC said:

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too many basic mistakes with clock management, decisions, personnel, sometimes shows no feel for the game flow. Seems like a decent man, might be best suited to OC.

This. I'd like to add the selective aggressiveness. He's got no problem justifying it that the numbers say go for two when you are down 14, but he doesn't want to seem to make that choice when the game is close or Giants have a lead. If I see a punt inside the opponent's 40 yard line this year, I am going to go berserk.

One year is not enough for anybody to judge one way or another. I am optimistic and like the direction so far, though I think he made some mistakes as well. Nobody's perfect. My view is much the same as it is for DG. Positive signs, but too early to judge.

this season I think with some luck 7-9 wins
if were below 500 and were running Barkley into
the ground . He and DG better be right on Jones
take a player at Six then he needs to get on the field
and be ready to make that change .

In comment 14442937 BillT said:

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In comment 14442567 RicosRoidedElbow said: Quote: What is he? 5-79 in his coaching career? Guy is Grade A loser, we'll worry about spelling his name correctly when he wins. 5/19! What dupe is this? Guesses?

Thanks Bill. We don't need his kind of shit.

I don't see the practices so I can't say anything about that, but he was a poor gameday coach who lacked understanding of game management. Need a huge improvement in that area...he isn't coaching the offense anymore, he's coaching the whole team. The playcalling, for example, I wish he'd delegate.

Hello fellow Giants fans. First time to the forum. I joined because I saw serious Giants fans that know FOOTBALL.
That said I'm kind of surprised at the low opinions of Shurmur. IMO any coach that can get a team to play as hard as they did in the 2nd half of the season deserves not just the benefit of the doubt, but should be cheered. Also, look at how the players interact with him. He handles the press, seems to have the command of the team, and it looks as if the players respect him. Or do you want that coach that puts winning so far upfront that he doesn't care what reprehensible characters play on the team as long as it helps the team win. Yeah I know about Parcells enabling LT and his addictions. But that was before social media so it's much harder to keep things like that hidden. I hope Shurmur and DJ win their own SB trophies for the Giants

Winning 5 games with cleveland is like taking any team to superbowl given the team he inherited in cleveland was the biggest garbage pile. At least new coach in cleveland inherited a bunch of 1st round picks and a decent qb.


In comment 14442690 M.S. said:

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...with a very suspect head coaching record: Cleveland Browns 2011 (4-12) 2012 (5-12) Philadelphia Eagles (Interim) 2015 (1-0) New York Giants 2018 (5-12) Very easy to argue that he didn't have very much in his three full years as head coach, so he has that going for him. My guess is that the real pressure on him is not necessarily posting a winning record in 2019, but if he ends up with losing records in both 2019 and 2020, then he is gone.

Welcome to BBI!

Rule number one: ignore the weirdos
Rule number two: see rule number one and ignore this post

In comment 14442635 Diversify yo bonds said:

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Honestly, every team should have someone on staff to tell the hc when to call timeouts and how to min/max exposure with regard to the clock. An alarming number of coaches share this deficiency.

Like a baseball bench coach.