NFT: Knicks/NBA Chat, 5/14. IT'S LOTTERY DAY!

but I kind of expect it at this point.

In comment 14443658 Strahan91 said:

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In comment 14443649 Anakim said: Quote: In comment 14443642 Dave in PA said: Quote: Premiere player at position of desperate need. Make it so! Or we can just do some science experiment and combine Frank, Mudiay and DSJ I'm curious what Mudiay brings to this amalgamation? Lots of minutes because of Fiz's love of the player?

I...ummm. He does that one thing well...no..no. Ummm.

Yeah, we'll go with what you said.

I'd personally just be disappointed if we won this lottery only to turn around and trade the pick for a guy who already has taken a beating in this league and misses time every single season.

Davis is a great player - people are confusing what I'm saying or twisting it to frame this as me saying otherwise. I'm not. I just have concerns about how it'll all piece together and I think the Knicks could conceivably build a better team by simply drafting Zion. There would be more flexibility and a conceivably larger window.

If we go the KD/AD/Kyrie route, we better win a championship within 2-3 years. If we don't, we're probably going to be waiting a while for another shot.

is overwhelming. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Ja Morant is a better player than him from what I've seen. I don't watch as much college basketball as I used to, but I have a couple of friends that do and both are convinced Barrett is going to end up being the better NBA player.

David West gave up 12 million to go play for the warriors...

I mean, I also know people who think Barrett will develop into a better NBA player than Zion, but for every one of those, there are 5 other people (many who are at least reasonably informed) who think this draft is Zion and then a pretty sizable gap before the rest of the rookie field.

I feel like Knicks fans are already trying to convince themselves that Zion won't be that good so that they can ultimately rationalize trading him and other pieces for Davis should we land the top pick.

What if Zion actually is the real deal? It's almost like no one here wants to consider that.. or we're talking about it like it's a major longshot.

is the future star of this draft. Zion's floor is pretty much an 18 and 12 and of course he has a ton of upside because of how athletic he is. Regardless, it is a great year to have a top 3 pick so I can almost guarantee we end up with the 4th.

Thank me later

In comment 14443711 Zeke's Alibi said:

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is the future star of this draft. Zion's floor is pretty much an 18 and 12 and of course he has a ton of upside because of how athletic he is. Regardless, it is a great year to have a top 3 pick so I can almost guarantee we end up with the 4th.

I've been saying the same thing. I'm very on Ja Morant. Has everything you want in a stud point guard, from day 1 he'll be a good facilitator and a problem in transition. Not worried about his shot it'll become respectable. Excellent length for a point guard. Love the small school guys they always come in with a chip on their shoulder and work hard. He's my favorite player in the draft. Cameron Payne, Isaiah Canaan and Ja Morant...Murray State has been an impressive mid major as of late.

and prefer not trading everything for AD (esp given a lot of the arguments apply to both - injury potential for example)

Fundamentally it's the difference between betting big on the next few years and being a legit contender almost for sure vs building the team more organically in parallel to FA, but not mortgaging the years following regardless of how that pans out. That's my preference too

But I totally get AD arguments. I do think he's a more difficult fit than everyone is making out - yet even so KD KI AD is a top 4 team in the East and will def get legit FAs to fill out the roster. Could be worse than this...!

And his ability as a primary ball-handler is going to give him a high ceiling. He’ll replace Russ as the most electric PG.

But Zion is just a special type of player. I see his floor as some sort of freakish Julius Randle/Lance Stephenson combo, that’s still a nice player. His ceiling is Barkley with defense which would be a possible GOAT candidate.

He has played a 82 game schedule and has tasted the playoffs.
If you bring KD and Kyrie you are in win now and for the next 4 years.
AD is ready for that.
Zion might end up a better pro down the road but he will need to develop.

I am Zion fan and if we decide to build in the draft he is a great first piece but unproven

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because they already have a deal in place and dont want knicks fans to get attached to the pick?

you never know.

Also I get people like building through the draft but Davis isnt getting much love here. Im a big Zion fan, but to act like he is some sure fire stud is crazy. He needs to be able to shoot better. His athleticism will def play at the next level but it wont be a man among boys like in college. Again im a huge fan, but AD is one of the top 5 players in this league and up there with Giannis/Kawhi as guys id start my franchise with right now.

Knicks get Zion
Kawhi decides to come here. He’s the top FA out there No doubt I’d rather have him over AD and KD
Sign Klay

Robinson
Zion
Kawhi
Klay
Smith

Great defensive team here
Bench
Knox
DJ
Trier
Dotson

pick please NBA gods! Help this damn franchise!!!

For the Knicks to pick 5th that means 4 teams jumped them, they draw the 1st pick first, then 2nd so the hope would be with the best odds for 1 that their numbers willl pop first...

In comment 14443748 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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And his ability as a primary ball-handler is going to give him a high ceiling. He’ll replace Russ as the most electric PG. But Zion is just a special type of player. I see his floor as some sort of freakish Julius Randle/Lance Stephenson combo, that’s still a nice player. His ceiling is Barkley with defense which would be a possible GOAT candidate.

I think his floor is higher than that. I think it's Draymond Green. Add in elite athleticism and youth and I think it's very likely he'll move beyond that baseline and quickly.

Others may have made this point, but wouldn't the Knicks have to essentially trade everyone else to make an AD salary fit along with KD and Kyrie? The Celtics had a Big 3, but they got to keep Rondo, Perkins, Big Baby, and Tony Allen after the sweetheart deal with McHale. The Knicks might not be allowed to do that due to the salaries.

AD is making $27 mil next year and then could leave for LA if he wants. If not, we're paying him like $40 mil per year.

Zion gets the $9 mil rookie contract and we have him under control for 5 years.

Not to mention the other pieces we'd have to trade.

I can't believe this trade is even a consideration. I'm not trading Zion. What the hell had AD won in New Orleans anyway? He's not exactly all alone there. Randle and Holiday are good. Yet the team sucks.

In comment 14443749 larryflower37 said:

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He has played a 82 game schedule and has tasted the playoffs. If you bring KD and Kyrie you are in win now and for the next 4 years. AD is ready for that. Zion might end up a better pro down the road but he will need to develop. I am Zion fan and if we decide to build in the draft he is a great first piece but unproven

Davis/Durant/Kyrie are a trio of injury prone players who have proven to be questionable off the court. Davis brings the least baggage yet he just sat out a half year because he wanted to play with Bron.

It’s a pretty damn nasty trio but there are concerns. Big3 teams are already lacking depth, which makes these guys’ injury prone factor more significant.

Zion + depth + flexibility is the way I’d go imo.

Morant Id trade for Davis because of Kyrie/Kemba in FA.

person where it's even a QUESTION is Zion. Ja/Barrett are ball dominant iffy shooters who don't mesh with Kyrie/Durant. Great start for a rebuilding team, bad fits for the Knicks.

If his ceiling is Westbrook or CP3, isn't he another guy who might hit stats but is inefficient and unlikely to win a ring? I mean, he can be Rondo between 2-3 FAs but that's different

Also athleticism - I don't see it. We can name 8-10 similar athletes at guard (DSJ is more explosive for example), if not 8-10+ PGs who will give him trouble on both ends regardless (Teague, Brogdon). Sure he looks fast vs the OVC. (While Zion is a top 20 NBA athlete, conservatively)

He's got elite vision & passing, with a plus handle & great on the break. Otherwise paint finishes are just ok, no J, and decision-making he gets away with at that level. But NBA physicality & D? As you could argue vs Florida St (ACC is close as you get). Imagine him vs the Bucks or Raps day 1? That too w/ a weak motor off the ball & on D. He's another ball dominant player that takes more fitting unless he's your #1-2

I think he'll be good, but see a lot more bust potential than his proponents admit. And years of adjustment even if he hits his ceiling to be an efficient, winning NBA PG

Average Games Played
Durant: 70
Davis: 67
Irving: 63

If that's your Big 3, the rest of your team will be trash. Are you guys really comfortable with that?

think that's true. They can keep Mitch, Dotson, Trier, and add a bunch of vets who are ring chasing. It's not the best bench mob but it's better than what the Warriors have coming off the bench currently.

In comment 14442947 Sean said:

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Agree with this

the rest ehhh.

And some of you guys said you'd throw Mitch in with Zion for Davis which is ridiculous imo.

I'd do anyone but Zion for Davis. But if you get the chance at Zion, keep him imo.

Good Luck either way, the league and the city could use a fun to watch contending Knicks team.

In comment 14442749 Oscar said:

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There is a 48% chance they pick 5th, 86% chance they don’t pick first. It would be incredible luck if they did land #1 overall.

"Incredible" seems like hyperbole to me. It's a 14% chance, not a 1.4% chance. That's about 1/8.

And you know, unlikely things happen all the time. Pitchers hit home runs. It rains in the desert and snows in May.

Everything going chalk tonight is probably among the least-likely outcomes. Something unlikely will almost certainly happen. We just can't guess which unlikely thing or things it will be.

In comment 14443797 81_Great_Dane said:

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In comment 14442749 Oscar said: Quote: There is a 48% chance they pick 5th, 86% chance they don’t pick first. It would be incredible luck if they did land #1 overall. "Incredible" seems like hyperbole to me. It's a 14% chance, not a 1.4% chance. That's about 1/8. And you know, unlikely things happen all the time. Pitchers hit home runs. It rains in the desert and snows in May. Everything going chalk tonight is probably among the least-likely outcomes. Something unlikely will almost certainly happen. We just can't guess which unlikely thing or things it will be.

Great point. The reality is the odds are mathematically stacked against every team getting the #1 pick, when you look at their odds individually. But someone has to pick #1, and the Knicks do have the best odds they possibly could.

In comment 14443789 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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Average Games Played Durant: 70 Davis: 67 Irving: 63 If that's your Big 3, the rest of your team will be trash. Are you guys really comfortable with that?

Trash? They dont need to be all stars at that point just role players who do their job well.

Deandre Jordan, Mitchell (likely to stay if we get a top 2 pick), Trier, Dotson, then a couple ring chasing vets,

Miami did they same thing : almost all the cap on their big 3 and it worked pretty darn well.

In comment 14443788 ChaChing said:

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If his ceiling is Westbrook or CP3, isn't he another guy who might hit stats but is inefficient and unlikely to win a ring? I mean, he can be Rondo between 2-3 FAs but that's different Also athleticism - I don't see it. We can name 8-10 similar athletes at guard (DSJ is more explosive for example), if not 8-10+ PGs who will give him trouble on both ends regardless (Teague, Brogdon). Sure he looks fast vs the OVC. (While Zion is a top 20 NBA athlete, conservatively) He's got elite vision & passing, with a plus handle & great on the break. Otherwise paint finishes are just ok, no J, and decision-making he gets away with at that level. But NBA physicality & D? As you could argue vs Florida St (ACC is close as you get). Imagine him vs the Bucks or Raps day 1? That too w/ a weak motor off the ball & on D. He's another ball dominant player that takes more fitting unless he's your #1-2 I think he'll be good, but see a lot more bust potential than his proponents admit. And years of adjustment even if he hits his ceiling to be an efficient, winning NBA PG

If Kyrie comes as a package deal then you deal Morant for AD.


Jordan/Mitchell
AD/Mitchell/KD
KD/Dotson/Ellenson
Dotson/Allen
Kyrie

This is not even considering a couple good ring chaser or two.

That team would win 60-65 games in the east.

In comment 14443789 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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Average Games Played Durant: 70 Davis: 67 Irving: 63 If that's your Big 3, the rest of your team will be trash. Are you guys really comfortable with that?

Is this a joke?
Absolutely!
I would keep all 3 under 65 games.
2 of those on the court wins most games.

Trading Zion for AD would be so typical Knicks it hurts.

in a rush to trade Zion for Davis. But I would have no concerns about trading other pieces for Davis and teaming him with KD, and Kyrie - and and then worrying about filling out the roster later on.

Knicksland can stop talking about Zion until he’s approaching free agency for the first time. And we can figure out who we like at #5.

I believe the lottery is actually conducted at 7:30.

holding an introductory press conference for three Hall of Fame players in their primes.

I'm fine with keeping Zion in this hypothetical scenario, but the "typical Knicks" stuff if they decide to trade him is a bit much. They've never been in a position like this before.

In comment 14443877 bceagle05 said:

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holding an introductory press conference for three Hall of Fame players in their primes. I'm fine with keeping Zion in this hypothetical scenario, but the "typical Knicks" stuff if they decide to trade him is a bit much. They've never been in a position like this before.

Just draft Zion & keep him if you have the number 1 pick. Sign KD/Kyrie. Develop Knox, Robinson & company with Zion & you have a nice drafted core in addition to players brought in through FA.

In comment 14443867 Oscar said:

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Knicksland can stop talking about Zion until he’s approaching free agency for the first time. And we can figure out who we like at #5.

Jeezus. You’ve been insufferable this entire thread. We get it. We have a greater chance at 5 than 1. You aren’t some genius passing along groundbreaking info like you seem to think you are. Now, can you allow us to dream for another half hour?

In comment 14443835 Giantz_comeback said:

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If Kyrie comes as a package deal then you deal Morant for AD. Jordan/Mitchell AD/Mitchell/KD KD/Dotson/Ellenson Dotson/Allen Kyrie This is not even considering a couple good ring chaser or two. That team would win 60-65 games in the east.

Agreed. I was just talking about Morant, but as you said w/ KI he's tradeable. Also agreed, JUST KD makes ring chasers a given IMO

I said above it's not just Mitch or Zion for AD, it's either / both PLUS several players & 1sts. You trade that for a ring no doubt, but it's a 3-4 yr window. I'd generally err on the side of no trade with hopes to build a system of scouting & developing vs a big bet now with a hole to dig out at the end

Still hypothetically KK, AT, DSJ, Dot, 2019 pick + a 1st for AD (def for another 1st, maybe even 1 of Mitch or Zion)? You might have to do that of course. So it's still dependent on the pkg, even for a great like AD

I'll be pretty happy if we're staring at KD AD KI, no doubt

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Got through work, ran 5 1/2 miles, dinner & post walk with the wife & daughter.

Now it's time to dial up the old man to discuss some hoops & crack open a couple of Wicked Weed Pernicious IPAs.

LET'S F*CKING GO. COME ON BASKETBALL GODS. WE'RE DUE!

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In comment 14443908 Zeke's Alibi said:

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Would love for the Knicks to get Zion but if I had to choose my Mega Millions ticket is more Than a tad ahead on the wish list.

I wish I could IV some of these IPAs in my veins.

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If I'm Charlotte I'm sending Jordan. That would all but guarantee they beat us...

It would perfectly reconcile the difference between my loves of basketball and reggae. And the Matrix