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Flacco not interested in mentoring

ron mexico : 5/14/2019 7:23 am
Pretty applicable to the Giants situation. I don't hold it against him, not not his job just like it's not Elis job.
Link - ( New Window )
Headline is click bait  
hitdog42 : 5/14/2019 7:24 am : link
the article itself paints an accurate picture of the situation and what he said.
Coaches coach  
cjac : 5/14/2019 7:26 am : link
players play

Lock is going to do everything he can to get ready to play just like Jones is. I'm sure everyone is going to get along but shit man, Flacco and Eli want to both play and win, i know i would.
That’s why there is a QB coach...  
bw in dc : 5/14/2019 7:40 am : link
and an OC. They do the mentoring for the QBs.

So good for Flacco.

Meanwhile, back east, expecting Eli to be this magnanimous soul and help Jones get prepared to take his job is also idiotic.

Much ado about nothing  
Giantology : 5/14/2019 7:54 am : link
.
It's so fuckng stupid, every team that drafts a QB within  
barens : 5/14/2019 8:01 am : link
the first two days of the draft, that question gets asked ad nasuem until the media gets a click bait answer.

And to be perfectly honest, I don't ever get people even posting about this garbage.
Flacco and Eli are two different people. I don't think we can assume,  
Ira : 5/14/2019 8:04 am : link
on the basis of what Flacco said, that Eli will feel the same way.
Eli said the same thing  
ron mexico : 5/14/2019 8:06 am : link
A couple years ago.
Here is the article  
ron mexico : 5/14/2019 8:11 am : link
From last winter, basically same sentiment
Link - ( New Window )
That title is not consistent with what he said  
UberAlias : 5/14/2019 8:24 am : link
Obvious effort to make is words more controversial than they were.
ron  
fkap : 5/14/2019 8:58 am : link
both said it's not their job to be a mentor.

But then Flacco said, basically: if the youngsters want to talk, talk to the coach. what they're going to learn from me (Flacco) they'll learn by watching me.

Eli said he'll help the youngsters all he can. aka be a mentor.

Both put the emphasis on the primary role being to prepare themselves to go out on the field, but I read a different sentiment in the sub role.

Flacco is younger and still has reasonable hopes for a few more years in the league. Eli has to know the end is near, and it's not out of the question that he has no desire to play beyond this year.
The sentiment seems pretty consistent to me  
ron mexico : 5/14/2019 9:03 am : link
That their job is to prepare themselves and compete to the best of their ability. As it should be.




Let's be real  
djstat : 5/14/2019 9:13 am : link
Eli and Flacco are good guys and they will be good teammates. When Lamar Jacokson took over for Joe, Joe was constantly talking to Lamar and supporting him. These guys will be great teammates. The development piece is for the OC and the QB coach. Flacco and Eli will teach how to be pro's by how they conduct themselves.
like everything else, people get so hung up with laser focus....  
Britt in VA : 5/14/2019 9:23 am : link
on general terms.

"Mentoring" doesn't have to be anything other than approaching your profession and handling your business as usual.

Just watching a 15 year veteran go about their daily business, how they train, how they watch/breakdown film, how they practice, how they work.... That's the mentee aspect.

Eli doesn't have to do anything other than go about his business as he always does.
People get hung up on it....  
Britt in VA : 5/14/2019 9:25 am : link
because they want to use it as ammo as to why a situation won't, or shouldn't, work.

Despite that this situation is as commonplace in the NFL as it has always been. Especially in a situation like ours.
Few QBs of stature are willing to mentor  
JonC : 5/14/2019 9:27 am : link
a young kid to potentially take their job. That's how it's looked at, no matter how you want it to be otherwise. Even Eli has stated he has no real interest in devoting the time to it, especially with a handful of young children at home.
It's quite possible  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/14/2019 9:44 am : link
Eli secretly fears and loathes his doppleganger, a mirror reflecting his own mortality.
RE: People get hung up on it....  
Go Terps : 5/14/2019 9:46 am : link
In comment 14442890 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
because they want to use it as ammo as to why a situation won't, or shouldn't, work.

Despite that this situation is as commonplace in the NFL as it has always been. Especially in a situation like ours.


If Jones works out, it will not have been because he sat behind Eli. He'll say all the right things about the situation, but I can't believe watching Eli get the reps is better than actually getting them himself. It was the same for Eli when Warner was here.

I put zero stock in Eli as a mentor.
Favre didn't mentor Rodgers....  
Britt in VA : 5/14/2019 9:48 am : link
Brees didn't mentor Rivers...

but it's hard to know whether those two guys benefited from sitting and watching or not.
Apparently Alex Smith was very helpful to Mahomes  
PaulBlakeTSU : 5/14/2019 9:50 am : link
which I think shows some high-quality sportsmanship.
Another recent example is Mahomes behind Smith....  
Britt in VA : 5/14/2019 9:50 am : link
who knows if that benefited him or not.
RE: Apparently Alex Smith was very helpful to Mahomes  
Britt in VA : 5/14/2019 9:51 am : link
In comment 14442946 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
which I think shows some high-quality sportsmanship.


You don't think Manning will be helpful? I think he'll be a great teammate.

Manning has likely known this Jones guy since he was a kid at the Manning passing academy. Now he'll give him the cold shoulder?

No, he'll be a good teammate. And that's all that's needed.
RE: RE: People get hung up on it....  
ron mexico : 5/14/2019 9:52 am : link
In comment 14442932 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14442890 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


because they want to use it as ammo as to why a situation won't, or shouldn't, work.

Despite that this situation is as commonplace in the NFL as it has always been. Especially in a situation like ours.



If Jones works out, it will not have been because he sat behind Eli. He'll say all the right things about the situation, but I can't believe watching Eli get the reps is better than actually getting them himself. It was the same for Eli when Warner was here.

I put zero stock in Eli as a mentor.


A better way to put it would be: I put zero stock in any entrenched vet QB as a mentor.
RE: RE: Apparently Alex Smith was very helpful to Mahomes  
ron mexico : 5/14/2019 9:56 am : link
In comment 14442950 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14442946 PaulBlakeTSU said:


Quote:


which I think shows some high-quality sportsmanship.



You don't think Manning will be helpful? I think he'll be a great teammate.

Manning has likely known this Jones guy since he was a kid at the Manning passing academy. Now he'll give him the cold shoulder?

No, he'll be a good teammate. And that's all that's needed.


To be honest, I don't even think that matters. Favre was a notoriously bad team mate to Rodgers (although Rodgers shares responsibility in their bad relationship)
RE: RE: Apparently Alex Smith was very helpful to Mahomes  
PaulBlakeTSU : 5/14/2019 9:57 am : link
In comment 14442950 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14442946 PaulBlakeTSU said:


Quote:


which I think shows some high-quality sportsmanship.



You don't think Manning will be helpful? I think he'll be a great teammate.

Manning has likely known this Jones guy since he was a kid at the Manning passing academy. Now he'll give him the cold shoulder?

No, he'll be a good teammate. And that's all that's needed.


I didn't intend to suggest that at all. I wasn't even thinking about our current situation. I only intended to pay a compliment to Smith; from what I read, Alex Smith went above and beyond to be a mentor to Mahomes which I think speaks highly of Smith's character and his self-awareness that Mahomes was the plan moving forward. My comment was more as a contrast to the actions of Favre and Flacco.
Got it.  
Britt in VA : 5/14/2019 10:00 am : link
I just think too much is being made of the term "mentor", and what that entails.
RE: Eli said the same thing  
Dr. D : 5/14/2019 10:10 am : link
In comment 14442761 ron mexico said:
Quote:
A couple years ago.

What Eli said a couple years ago in reference to a 3rd round draft pick (Webb), when he still had 3 years left on his contract, has little to nothing to do with how he is going to work with Jones this year.

No one expects Eli to hold Jones hand this year, but if you've followed Eli all these years, you should know that there's not a better vet QB in the league who you'd rather have in this situation.

Of course I expect Eli's #1 priority will be trying to win games (which will keep Jones off the field).

Much of his mentoring will be by example. But I can't imagine Eli not teaching Jones at appropriate times. Eli is the anti-Favre. And the connection they already had, can only help.
Nobody here knows what it's like to work directly with Eli Manning  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/14/2019 10:13 am : link
. Weird to throw out absolutes like we have information on the topic.
Most QBs, especially great ones, are not good mentors. Good examples  
Ivan15 : 5/14/2019 10:27 am : link
Yes, but not good mentors. Too competitive.

The coaches and Tanney will mentor Jones and Lauletta. A lot of that mentoring will be “watch how Eli does it”

Do you think Peyton mentored anyone? Elway? Not even Montana!
the media acts like Eli or Flacco  
Platos : 5/14/2019 10:33 am : link
aren't going to make eye contact with the rookies or something.

how much mentoring do they need? one on one sessions after practice? c'mon...

the rookies job is to observe and absorb everything he sees and is told. Joe and Eli don't get paid extra to hold a rook's hand.
Here are some quotes from Davis Webb  
Dr. D : 5/14/2019 10:44 am : link
who said that he and Eli had breakfast and lunch together every day since the day he arrived.

"Manning has unselfishly passed much help his way".

"There's not enough time in the day to talk about what I've learned from him, and I'm going to continue to learn from him".

"He's an unbelievable human being".

Does that sound like Eli wasn't mentoring a young QB? Now consider that he already has a connection with Jones (who already looks up to him) and that it's the last year of his contract.

Rookie Davis Webb: I'm still learning from Eli - ( New Window )
RE: Nobody here knows what it's like to work directly with Eli Manning  
Go Terps : 5/14/2019 10:45 am : link
In comment 14443004 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
. Weird to throw out absolutes like we have information on the topic.


I feel like we have quite a lot of information, actually:

- No young QB that has sat behind Eli in his 14 full seasons as starter has ever gone on to do anything of note in the NFL...even stick around as a backup
- Eli could have been cut to create $17M in cap space, a significant number when we see FAs like Ansah, Irvin, Veldheer, Iupati, and others signing 1 year deals for around $5M or less
- Other young QBs have stepped in and started from day 1 with success, including two in our division: Wentz and Prescott
- Jones just graduated from Duke with an economics degree while starting 36 games as their QB and getting himself drafted #6 overall. He's as technically refined as you could ask a college QB to be. If the work ethic and capacity to receive coaching weren't already there he wouldn't have achieved these things.

From the Giants' perspective the strategy is pretty poor, and it's setting Eli up for one last indignity...to have the fans call for him to be benched before applauding as Jones takes his job.
RE: Apparently Alex Smith was very helpful to Mahomes  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 5/14/2019 10:48 am : link
In comment 14442946 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
which I think shows some high-quality sportsmanship.

"Here kid, I'll show you how to come up small in big games, become an elite game manager with short throws to rbs and tes, and get our frail old ass overpaid by grossly incompetent meddlesome owner".
There are two scenarios  
Reale01 : 5/14/2019 10:49 am : link
Vet has job and rookie back-up
Vet will focus on getting himself ready. He will be nice and provide some help, but it is not his priority and he may hold some things back.

Rookie has job and vet is back-up
Vet would be expected to share as much as he can to help the starter be better. Making the starter better is 1 priority and being ready to come in if needed is #2.
Prideful/ successful professional athletes are often  
joeinpa : 5/14/2019 11:14 am : link
The last to admit their time is over.

I think it s reasonable to assume Eli believes he has years left. He is probably disappointed, maybe even pissed about Jones being drafted at 6.

I m certain it is his plan through good play to keep Jones on the bench.

I also believe Eli s relationship with Jones will be professional. But if you believe there won’t be some tension and awkwardness between them, to me that s naive.
seriously  
giantfan2000 : 5/14/2019 11:19 am : link
Why would you think Eli would mentor Jones?

This is the same Eli that benched himself rather than do what HC asked
RE: Here are some quotes from Davis Webb  
Britt in VA : 5/14/2019 11:22 am : link
In comment 14443057 Dr. D said:
Quote:
who said that he and Eli had breakfast and lunch together every day since the day he arrived.

"Manning has unselfishly passed much help his way".

"There's not enough time in the day to talk about what I've learned from him, and I'm going to continue to learn from him".

"He's an unbelievable human being".

Does that sound like Eli wasn't mentoring a young QB? Now consider that he already has a connection with Jones (who already looks up to him) and that it's the last year of his contract. Rookie Davis Webb: I'm still learning from Eli - ( New Window )


/end thread
RE: Another recent example is Mahomes behind Smith....  
NINEster : 5/14/2019 11:24 am : link
In comment 14442948 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
who knows if that benefited him or not.


It did.

He mentored Kaepernick too after his job was taken away.

The guy is a saint.
RE: Prideful/ successful professional athletes are often  
bw in dc : 5/14/2019 11:29 am : link
In comment 14443119 joeinpa said:
Quote:
The last to admit their time is over.

I think it s reasonable to assume Eli believes he has years left. He is probably disappointed, maybe even pissed about Jones being drafted at 6.

I m certain it is his plan through good play to keep Jones on the bench.

I also believe Eli s relationship with Jones will be professional. But if you believe there won’t be some tension and awkwardness between them, to me that s naive.


Mostly agree. And I think the Jones-Manning relationship is way overblown. In fact, I think they are more acquaintances than friends. They have the common denominator in Cutcliffe, but it's not like Eli has been flying Jones up to NJ to watch Giants games in a team suite.

To underscore your point, I would bet Eli is very disappointed in the Jones pick. And he views Jones as a real threat to his position.
RE: RE: Apparently Alex Smith was very helpful to Mahomes  
NINEster : 5/14/2019 11:33 am : link
In comment 14443070 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In comment 14442946 PaulBlakeTSU said:


Quote:


which I think shows some high-quality sportsmanship.


"Here kid, I'll show you how to come up small in big games, become an elite game manager with short throws to rbs and tes, and get our frail old ass overpaid by grossly incompetent meddlesome owner".


Big difference between playing QB when the bullets fly and learning the offense and reading defenses. Smith is an intelligent QB that has played in more offensive systems than most. I have no doubt he would be a better QB mentor than many of the elite QBs....Mahomes and Kaepernick I'm sure are grateful.

His peaks weren't good enough, but let's not pile on the guy.
more on Davis Webb's relationship with Manning:  
Britt in VA : 5/14/2019 11:34 am : link
Quote:
During his rookie season as the No. 3 quarterback for the Giants, Webb tried to absorb as much information as he could from Manning.

In the offseason, Webb decided to stay in New Jersey rather than returning to his roots in warm-weather Texas or California in order to continue building his relationship with Manning.

So what has he learned from the potential future Hall of Famer in the 10-plus months they've been teammates?

"How to handle adversity would be No. 1," Webb told NJ Advance Media during an exclusive interview. "We lost 13 games. We have to swallow that. But he never flinched. Every day he had the biggest smile on his face and was ready to work and compete with his teammates. He loves playing the game of football. That's something I really admire."


Quote:
Manning said last month that it it is not his job to "mentor" young quarterbacks but he hopes they learn from watching his example how to prepare, compete, lead and communicate because that puts the team in the best position to succeed.

It was a classic Manning take. Translation: Manning is not going to give the Brett Favre-like "cold shoulder" to anyone, but you have to be proactive to learn from him.

Webb is fully invested in the osmosis approach.

"We have two different personalities," Webb said, "but that's why I think all the receivers gel with us: Because it's easy to talk to him and I."


Quote:
"He's the best teammate I've ever had," Webb said. "He pushed through some adversity this year: Receivers went down, (offensive) linemen got hurt. We had some adversity and he didn't flinch. He had to sit out one game, and he was the best teammate in the world. I know it was hard on him. I really respected that."


Quote:
That's where the second lesson from Manning comes into play.

"No. 2 is keep grinding," Webb said. "He said, 'The biggest thing I've got going for me is my work ethic. I'm going to outwork people. That's how you get better. Every day you find something. You never stay the same.'

"He's 37 years old and he's played the game longer than I've lived. He is still finding ways to get better. That's what I've learned. You are always to improve whether you are a Hall of Fame quarterback or some rookie."


Doesn't sound like somebody adverse to "mentoring" a player.

Link - ( New Window )
Webb...  
bw in dc : 5/14/2019 11:37 am : link
was a third round pick. More project than threat to Eli.

The dynamics are much different now - Jones is the #6 pick and the declared successor. The temperature in the QB meetings room has definitely changed.
RE: RE: Prideful/ successful professional athletes are often  
Britt in VA : 5/14/2019 11:37 am : link
In comment 14443144 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14443119 joeinpa said:


Quote:


The last to admit their time is over.

I think it s reasonable to assume Eli believes he has years left. He is probably disappointed, maybe even pissed about Jones being drafted at 6.

I m certain it is his plan through good play to keep Jones on the bench.

I also believe Eli s relationship with Jones will be professional. But if you believe there won’t be some tension and awkwardness between them, to me that s naive.



Mostly agree. And I think the Jones-Manning relationship is way overblown. In fact, I think they are more acquaintances than friends. They have the common denominator in Cutcliffe, but it's not like Eli has been flying Jones up to NJ to watch Giants games in a team suite.

To underscore your point, I would bet Eli is very disappointed in the Jones pick. And he views Jones as a real threat to his position.


In addtion to the Manning Passing Academy...

Quote:
But learning from Manning is not a new task for Jones. In fact, he has done it for years. Through the Cutcliffe connection, Manning came to Duke for offseason workouts on numerous occasions, and Jones was always eager to pick Manning's brain.

"They’ve already spent a lot of time around each other," Blue Devil head coach Cutcliffe said. "So while Daniel was here and [Manning worked out], Daniel’s eyes got big, and Daniel watched and begged to come into film studies [with Manning]. So they’ve been around each other, and are real comfortable with each other."


Manning may not have been flying Jones up to Giants games, but.... - ( New Window )
Two things  
Go Terps : 5/14/2019 11:39 am : link
1. Davis Webb is trying to get a job in the NFL. What else is he going to say when someone asks him about Eli?

2. Webb doesn't know how to throw a football like an NFL quarterback. He didn't know how to do it when the Giants drafted him, and he still didn't know how to do it when they cut him a year and a half later. If he's an example of what Eli's mentorship gives to a young QB, we should make sure Eli and Jones are never in the same room together.
Mentoring is not teaching a QB how to throw a football.  
Britt in VA : 5/14/2019 11:40 am : link
That's coaching.
Eli had better be Yoda as a mentor...  
Go Terps : 5/14/2019 11:49 am : link
because the price of his presence in conjunction with Jones is steep:

- Lost reps for Jones in camp and preseason
- $17M in cap space that could have been used on 3-5 veteran FAs on 1 year team friendly deals
- Lost games with the starting QB in a cheap rookie deal
- A season that will be dominated by a QB controversy
- Likely having to watch Eli's Giants career end with a mid-season benching

What should be an uplifting, positive season could be destroyed by this.
Yeah, well what's done is done....  
Britt in VA : 5/14/2019 11:51 am : link
and now all we can do is watch it play out.

I have a feeling that Manning is going to have a great season. We'll see.
RE: RE: Nobody here knows what it's like to work directly with Eli Manning  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/14/2019 11:54 am : link
In comment 14443059 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14443004 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


. Weird to throw out absolutes like we have information on the topic.



I feel like we have quite a lot of information, actually:

- No young QB that has sat behind Eli in his 14 full seasons as starter has ever gone on to do anything of note in the NFL...even stick around as a backup
- Eli could have been cut to create $17M in cap space, a significant number when we see FAs like Ansah, Irvin, Veldheer, Iupati, and others signing 1 year deals for around $5M or less
- Other young QBs have stepped in and started from day 1 with success, including two in our division: Wentz and Prescott
- Jones just graduated from Duke with an economics degree while starting 36 games as their QB and getting himself drafted #6 overall. He's as technically refined as you could ask a college QB to be. If the work ethic and capacity to receive coaching weren't already there he wouldn't have achieved these things.

From the Giants' perspective the strategy is pretty poor, and it's setting Eli up for one last indignity...to have the fans call for him to be benched before applauding as Jones takes his job.


I'm inclined to agree with your take on this, but my comment was more about the fans who are making it out to seem like Eli is obviously just pleased as punch to take the kid under his wing and teach him everything he needs to steal the starting QB job. There's a bit more to manning than the 'awe shucks' ego-free image.
Who cares?  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/14/2019 12:02 pm : link
Whether Eli helps or not, Jones is the QB of the future. Eli helping or not helping isn't changing that.
And by 'future', I mean 2020.  
Dave in Hoboken : 5/14/2019 12:03 pm : link
.
Now who's speculating?  
Britt in VA : 5/14/2019 12:03 pm : link
You said yourself, you don't know what it's like to work with Manning, none of us do. So we can only go on what we know.

Well, people said we "know" that Manning didn't want to mentor Davis Webb because of a snippet. When we see that played out in context through Webb's own words, we see that Manning actually was a great teammate and helpful to Webb.

Now that's being twisted into "well there's more to it than the aww shucks persona".
RE: Two things  
Dr. D : 5/14/2019 12:18 pm : link
In comment 14443164 Go Terps said:
Quote:
1. Davis Webb is trying to get a job in the NFL. What else is he going to say when someone asks him about Eli?

2. Webb doesn't know how to throw a football like an NFL quarterback. He didn't know how to do it when the Giants drafted him, and he still didn't know how to do it when they cut him a year and a half later. If he's an example of what Eli's mentorship gives to a young QB, we should make sure Eli and Jones are never in the same room together.

Webb made those comments during his rookie season while he was still a Giant, i.e., not looking for a job.

And if you expected Eli to correct Webb's throwing mechanics, you should get a grip. No one realistically expects that.
Nonsense on this thread...  
Jimmy Googs : 5/14/2019 12:26 pm : link
Bottom line is whatever definition that you want to put behind the subjective phrase "mentoring", Eli Manning is the consummate teammate/professional and will do everything he should do...
I wouldn't call it the same thing either  
USAF NYG Fan : 5/14/2019 12:39 pm : link
Eli knows this system after his first year in it in the books. Flacco is walking into an entirely new system. Flacco has his own learning to do right now.

RE: Now who's speculating?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/14/2019 12:42 pm : link
In comment 14443208 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
You said yourself, you don't know what it's like to work with Manning, none of us do. So we can only go on what we know.

Well, people said we "know" that Manning didn't want to mentor Davis Webb because of a snippet. When we see that played out in context through Webb's own words, we see that Manning actually was a great teammate and helpful to Webb.

Now that's being twisted into "well there's more to it than the aww shucks persona".


I don't know that taking davis webb quotes really gets you anywhere. Do you think that, even if Eli did nothing but slap binders out of his hands and try to sabotage his chances, Webb would publicly state anything but good things? The second a player says something about a teammate that isn't complementary, it becomes a story.

Well what do you have to go on....  
Britt in VA : 5/14/2019 12:43 pm : link
that says otherwise? Where are you getting the "there's more than the 'aww shucks' persona happening there" from?

Which one is more rooted in speculation?
RE: Well what do you have to go on....  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/14/2019 12:53 pm : link
In comment 14443266 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
that says otherwise? Where are you getting the "there's more than the 'aww shucks' persona happening there" from?

Which one is more rooted in speculation?


You're taking it as a negative and feeling like you have to defend the guy.

Look, he's been a competitor his whole career. Competitive people don't smile and help a younger player try to take his job. Especially when Eli Manning has every right to feel like this franchise has failed to support his effort to win football games for half a decade.

My take on Eli is simple. He's a competitor. He didn't want any part of a situation where he was sharing time with another QB. When presented with an option that allowed the team to see another QB play and also keep him in as the starter, his response wasn't to take it with a smile and help out. It was 'if that's the case, just start the guy'. I glean from that he took the idea of not being the starting QB rather poorly.
He's also in the last year of a contract  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/14/2019 12:54 pm : link
So there's a baked in self-interest in not giving the Giants a reason to just slide Jones up one spot on the depth chart. A truckload of money.
the only thing I've learned from this thread  
BigBlueCane : 5/14/2019 2:11 pm : link
is that we desperately need photoshops of Eli's face on either Yoda or Vader with the appropriate caption.
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