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Looking at the OL now, how worried are you about center?

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/14/2019 9:47 am
Very worried?

Not as worried because of Zeitler and Hernandez flanking the position?

Halapio or Pulley will be fine?
I have always like Halapio more than most here  
Capt. Don : 5/14/2019 9:48 am : link
I think he will be above average.
this is the big unknown  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/14/2019 9:49 am : link
but I'm thinking if Halapio stays healthy that it should be fine

Look -- this O line, as it appears right now, is the best Oline we've fielded in quite some time
Very  
Giants38 : 5/14/2019 9:51 am : link
Halapaio had difficulty calling out simple stunts last year, which got us embarrassed against Dallas. If he hasnít improved in that area, we will have problems with blocking assignments going forward.
Not at all. Imo we'll do OK, between Pulley and Halapio.  
yatqb : 5/14/2019 9:54 am : link
I thought that Pulley came on strong in the latter parts of last season.
Pulley wasn't good last year  
BillT : 5/14/2019 9:54 am : link
That we know. Halapio, we're told, was good for 6 quarters. They've made a choice for Halapio that I hope is a good one. I like almost all of what they've done with the rest of the team so I'm likely to give them the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't have to be great. Average will do.
They liked John Sullivan last offseason  
ij_reilly : 5/14/2019 9:54 am : link
The Rams released him and he hasn't signed with anyone.

I would feel much better with him on the roster.

Pulley or Sullivan? Which would you rather see wearing Big Blue?
I'm excited to see  
TrueBlue56 : 5/14/2019 9:55 am : link
This offensive line. I am not so worried about center. I think it will be a good battle between Halapio and pulley, with one of them as a back up. Having 2 guards in Hernandez and Zeitler only adds to it.

What a transformation this line has taken in 2 off seasons. It is so good to see the emphasis on building from the trences out
I'm worried about C and RT  
averagejoe : 5/14/2019 9:55 am : link
and God forbid we have an injury to a guard. Remmers is nothing special. A slight improvement over Wheeler. With no big play WR to worry about Saquon will face nine in the box on 1st and 2nd down. OL is better but still shaky.
RE: this is the big unknown  
giants#1 : 5/14/2019 9:56 am : link
In comment 14442943 gidiefor said:
Quote:
but I'm thinking if Halapio stays healthy that it should be fine

Look -- this O line, as it appears right now, is the best Oline we've fielded in quite some time


The bar for that is pretty low though.

If our worst case scenario is the same level of play we got from C down the stretch last year (i.e. Pulley), I think we're Ok seeing as we should be better everywhere else. Pulley was below average, but at least he wasn't dreadful last year.

But I think we see the 2nd half Solder all year, improvement from Hernandez, Zeitler is a significant upgrade over Brown, and while he's not a star, Remmers is still a substantial upgrade over Wheeler. Better familiarity and communication between Solder/Hernandez should improve their play too, which is probably my biggest concern for the overall line. How long will it take the unit to get on the same page?
We are better in 4 position and competition at C  
George from PA : 5/14/2019 9:57 am : link
Let Halapio and Pulley battle it out....with solid guards on both sides.

If you are going to lose sleep...LBers, pass rush on defense and #1 WR
No NFL  
crackerjack465 : 5/14/2019 9:59 am : link
o-line in the league is complete with no holes. Almost every one of them has a weak link. I feel like Halapio is an average starter, sure we could do better, but between Hernandez and Zietler I feel pretty good about 4/5s of our O-line.

Remmers is the bigger question mark to me, but I think this is probably the best o-line we've had since 2010.
A quick Halapio story  
YANKEE28 : 5/14/2019 9:59 am : link
Prior to his Combine, he had torn his pec muscle (injury similar to Strahans). His best asset was his raw strength so both he and NFL teams were disappointed he couldn't lift. Prior to the draft, he got medical clearance to return to lifting. After just 2 weeks of practice he lifted for Patriots scouts. Lifted the bar 32 times. Incredible. And then Belichick drafted him in the 6th. You are talking about a player with incredible foundational strength that coaches have learned is a better Center than Guard. I think he is going to do very well
RE: Very  
section125 : 5/14/2019 10:00 am : link
In comment 14442951 Giants38 said:
Quote:
Halapaio had difficulty calling out simple stunts last year, which got us embarrassed against Dallas. If he hasnít improved in that area, we will have problems with blocking assignments going forward.


His 1st game at center and he was not good, true. There was a big improvement in his play the following week just before he got hurt.

Shurmur was a center at MSU. I think he would know good center play. He likes Halapio. With two good guards on either side, I think he will be helped and it will make it easier for im to play.

But always worried about depth.
I'm not sure. I never got what the Giants saw in Halapio, but they  
Ira : 5/14/2019 10:01 am : link
know much more about ol than I do. Pulley's a decent backup.
Not worried  
Milton : 5/14/2019 10:02 am : link
It may be a position they want to upgrade next year, but for now it's not a liability and the depth is good.
Shurmur likes him  
ChicagoMarty : 5/14/2019 10:05 am : link
Wasn't Shurmur a C at some point in his life?

I like the fact that Halapio weighs a reported 320 lbs.

Given his reported strength, there is little likelihood of him being pushed back into the pocket.

I hated when that happened repeatedly in the past decade or so

Having exhibited my interest in Halapio I must say I am rooting for UDFA O'Hagen to make a strong push for the backup C position

He is an alumnus of my alma mater and ex-wrestler like myself so he is my longshot bet to make the team
When Halapio "sees it"  
Capt. Don : 5/14/2019 10:08 am : link
he is a good starter. He has something that we havent had at that position in a long time which is size.

"seeing it" will come with experience and Zeitler will be a big help.

I am actually more concerned with Solder. Because he did OK the last 6-8 games we have sort of forgotten how wretched he was in the first half of the season.
Very.  
x meadowlander : 5/14/2019 10:08 am : link
I wanted a center with a early round draft pick.

Weak centers cause sacks every bit as much as weak tackles do.
Concerned  
Rick in Dallas : 5/14/2019 10:09 am : link
Solve the center problem in next yearís draft by selecting Tyler Biadasz of Wisconsin. He is a bad man!!!!

Watch Wisconsin games next year. He is a pancake machine!!!
RE: We are better in 4 position and competition at C  
Ivan15 : 5/14/2019 10:10 am : link
In comment 14442970 George from PA said:
Quote:
Let Halapio and Pulley battle it out....with solid guards on both sides.

If you are going to lose sleep...LBers, pass rush on defense and #1 WR


Agree completely. Giants feel good or at least okay about Center. There is competition and options. Halapio has almost no experience. Pulley only has a couple of years in college and pros. On the job training. Brown and oíHagen are a bit small but if you were okay with Jones, you should be content with these 4. Sullivan was good but past his prime. Giants donít need another ďyear too lateĒ player trying to hang on.
Not at all  
allstarjim : 5/14/2019 10:19 am : link
I think we're going to be just fine.
Halapio has shown absolutely nothing in 5 years in the NFL  
Greg from LI : 5/14/2019 10:19 am : link
Not expecting that to change now. Pulley is complete garbage.
I actually really like..  
Johnny5 : 5/14/2019 10:21 am : link
... O'Hagan, and I'm hoping he sticks. Pulley wasn't bad, haven't seen enough of Halapio but clearly the staff likes him. I expect with better play to the right of center it helps the position out substantially. We'll see.
i'm not so concerned  
V.I.G. : 5/14/2019 10:24 am : link
1) Shurmur loved Pio
2) Dotino said Pulley added 20lbs of muscle
3) who ever loses will be a solid backup C/G

what concerns me more is still RT, if MR's back flares up

RE: Halapio has shown absolutely nothing in 5 years in the NFL  
V.I.G. : 5/14/2019 10:25 am : link
In comment 14443013 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Not expecting that to change now. Pulley is complete garbage.

neither did O'Hara when he came...
Surprised there's no love for Sullivan on this board  
ij_reilly : 5/14/2019 10:25 am : link
Sullivan at some kind of vet minimum contract seems feasible.

And this also likely to be a huge upgrade over Pulley.

He brings veteran experience and leadership to the position.

Downside I guess is that he is a one-position player, center, that's it.

In general I'm all on board with what Gettleman is doing. But he is not immune from error. I don't like the inaction at the C position. "Stand pat" doesn't seem like the best strategy to me.

Halapio has "JAG" written all over him and he's coming off a broken leg. "Stand pat". I don't get it.

RE: RE: Halapio has shown absolutely nothing in 5 years in the NFL  
Greg from LI : 5/14/2019 10:31 am : link
In comment 14443023 V.I.G. said:
Quote:

neither did O'Hara when he came...


O'Hara had 38 career starts before signing with the Giants. Halapio, going into the coming season, has....eight.
RE: RE: Halapio has shown absolutely nothing in 5 years in the NFL  
Johnny5 : 5/14/2019 10:32 am : link
In comment 14443023 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
In comment 14443013 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Not expecting that to change now. Pulley is complete garbage.


neither did O'Hara when he came...

Actually O'Hara had a couple of really good seasons with Cleveland before he signed with the Giants. He was a good player for them.
Not worried  
Biteymax22 : 5/14/2019 10:36 am : link
The position can be upgrade, and I wouldn't have batted an eye if we took a center in the draft, but the talent level is at least average at this point.

There also wouldn't be a huge drop off in talent if Halapio went down, there is some depth.
RE: RE: RE: Halapio has shown absolutely nothing in 5 years in the NFL  
Jay on the Island : 5/14/2019 10:38 am : link
In comment 14443036 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 14443023 V.I.G. said:


Quote:


In comment 14443013 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Not expecting that to change now. Pulley is complete garbage.


neither did O'Hara when he came...


Actually O'Hara had a couple of really good seasons with Cleveland before he signed with the Giants. He was a good player for them.

OíHara played mostly guard for the Browns. When his contract expired the Browns made no effort to re-sign him. He only signed a 3 year 8 million dollar deal with the Giants.
Less worried about C than RT  
Eric on Li : 5/14/2019 10:38 am : link
Halapio and Pulley have started games, the giants have seen something in them, and C seems to be a position where you can take even undersized players and get by. Brett Jones is 1 example but there have been others too.

Tackle is where we've been eaten alive ever since Beatty tore his pec in 2015. Newhouse, Flowers, Hart, Wheeler. Oy. Solder was an upgrade on those guys, especially over the 2nd half, need Remmers to be an upgrade as well. The over/under is probably more in line with Newhouse than we'd like to admit so we need to hope he exceeds expectations.
RE: Very  
JayinVT : 5/14/2019 10:44 am : link
In comment 14442951 Giants38 said:
Quote:
Halapaio had difficulty calling out simple stunts last year, which got us embarrassed against Dallas. If he hasnít improved in that area, we will have problems with blocking assignments going forward.


This was my biggest problem with Halapaio... he did not look comfortable making line calls. Pulley wasn't anything great but I felt the line got better because you had someone who knows how to make line calls in there and it helped settle things down.

I hope he spent his offseason rehabbing and learning the center position, which isn't easy.
I'm not worried  
English Alaister : 5/14/2019 10:45 am : link
I think Pio and Pulley is a good competition and it is good depth with whoever loses.

I worry more about an injury to one of the other 4.
RE: A quick Halapio story  
Racer : 5/14/2019 10:45 am : link
In comment 14442974 YANKEE28 said:
Quote:
...You are talking about a player with incredible foundational strength that coaches have learned is a better Center than Guard. I think he is going to do very well


I'm as worried as this.
RE: I'm worried about C and RT  
JayinVT : 5/14/2019 10:45 am : link
In comment 14442964 averagejoe said:
Quote:
and God forbid we have an injury to a guard. Remmers is nothing special. A slight improvement over Wheeler. With no big play WR to worry about Saquon will face nine in the box on 1st and 2nd down. OL is better but still shaky.


Remmers is an average RT, while that is 'nothing special' in a vacuum, it's lightyears beyond wheeler who is terrible.
Luke warm take  
AcesUp : 5/14/2019 10:46 am : link
But I think we'll be better at C than we will at RT. I don't really see either position as gaping holes, just large question marks backed by quality depth. Hernandez is a guy that I'm not taking for granted either, there are plenty of examples of promising young rookies that do not progress or even regress. This line really needs him to step up and for Solder to continue his momentum from last season. That's probably a bigger key to success than what level of mediocre the bargain types are.
They really seemed to like Pio  
Giantz_comeback : 5/14/2019 10:46 am : link
And I trust their eye for the trenches.

Albeit small sample size he was playing well before injury.

And as you put it Eric he'll be flanked by 2 pretty good OGs in Zietler and a 2nd year Hernandez.

This OL should not have any 'black holes' at any of the positions. It should be light years better than week 1 last year. Even Solder our big FA LT took awhile in the new blocking scheme , Hernandez still totally green, Omameh busted, Pio gets hurt, and Flowers never blossomed.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Halapio has shown absolutely nothing in 5 years in the NFL  
Johnny5 : 5/14/2019 10:56 am : link
In comment 14443045 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14443036 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


In comment 14443023 V.I.G. said:


Quote:


In comment 14443013 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Not expecting that to change now. Pulley is complete garbage.


neither did O'Hara when he came...


Actually O'Hara had a couple of really good seasons with Cleveland before he signed with the Giants. He was a good player for them.


OíHara played mostly guard for the Browns. When his contract expired the Browns made no effort to re-sign him. He only signed a 3 year 8 million dollar deal with the Giants.

That's true but I remember when we signed him he wanted to play his true position which is center. He started a LOT of games for the Browns and I remember specifically reading an article calling him out as one of the quietly successful players that helped Butch Davis to that 9-7 (2002 I think) season where it looked like between Couch and Holcomb they were on the upswing with good competition between QBs. I remember being stoked about signing him. You don't have to be an all pro to be a good solid player and a good solid signing.
Iíve been worried for 2 offseason  
The_Boss : 5/14/2019 10:57 am : link
Nothing has changed. We need a legit long term answer at OC. Nobody on the roster currently fits the bill.
Bottom Line  
Percy : 5/14/2019 10:57 am : link
This year's OL is going to be so much better than last year's that the difference borders on infinitely better, including at C. Can there be disappointments? Negative surprises? Sure. But at the moment it seems to me we all should be overjoyed and justifiably optimistic.
Evan Brown?  
Samiam : 5/14/2019 10:57 am : link
Did anyone ever see him play? Had anything been written about him with any kind of useful information? Talk about a forgotten player
Don't understand how people can have confidence in Pio  
wonderback : 5/14/2019 10:59 am : link
The most memorable thing he's done is break his leg. He's been a journeyman his hold career with hardly any experience at center. I'm amazed at how many people downgrade the center's position on this board. You all realize he makes the line calls, don't you? I've seen nothing in his play (two games) which gives me confidence. Now maybe he'll rise to the occasion but what the hell do I know. So far he's accomplished zero. Oh, except he's big and strong. So there's that.
It is clearly the weak link on the OL now.  
Red Dog : 5/14/2019 10:59 am : link
I was hoping against hope that they would draft a quality Center prospect, but resigned that they would not. And they did not.

As pointed out above, Halapio has shown pretty much nothing so far in his NFL career. Pulley is sub-standard but serviceable enough to get by with for a while if needed, and the other two guys are complete unknowns at this point. Maybe this is the year that one of them steps up, but that's really more wishful thinking than anything else.



A little worried  
UberAlias : 5/14/2019 11:00 am : link
C may be the most underrated position among the starting 22. You also don't need to invest a high draft pick to get a pretty good one, which is why I was disappointed we didn't invest one of our 12 picks on an upgrade.
always been a bit odd to me  
ryanmkeane : 5/14/2019 11:02 am : link
that the staff seems to LOVE Halapio..yet he hasn't really done much here. I don't think "worried" is the word but I don't think someone with Pio's skills is the long term answer. Can he be adequate? Sure. But we need more than that.
I think itís a weakness.  
Giant John : 5/14/2019 11:06 am : link
Very surprised we did not draft a good prospect for the position.
Pulley got starter money  
Tuckrule : 5/14/2019 11:18 am : link
But I would like halapio to win the job. Heís just a stout player. I like his size at the position. Pulley was very solid in his own right just imo more of a finesse blocker than a people mover. Can have trouble with the bigger tackles
I was  
mittenedman : 5/14/2019 11:20 am : link
one of the few who liked Pio last year. I thought he was pretty stout in the few quarters he played. Heís big, smart & physical.

Barkley ran surprisingly well right up the gut vs the Jags.
I think Halapio is something of a gamble  
Bob in Newburgh : 5/14/2019 11:21 am : link
I think management has little concern that he can handle the physical responsibilities of the position. Can he handle the mental aspects of the position, which include the line calls?

Unfortunately, there is a League-wide history of extreme success, but also failure at this.
Pulley  
AcesUp : 5/14/2019 11:25 am : link
Is getting slept on. Not as a foundational piece or a guy with a longterm future with the team but as a serviceable player at the position next year. He's 26 just entering his prime and has a lot of starts NFL caliber play. Pio is the upside guy that management has faith in and Pulley establishes an acceptable short term floor if Pio flames out. I'm ok with that for 2019.

A little too much handwringing at C and not enough collectively as a unit IMO. RT is just as big a question and the "foundational" investments on the left side need to establish themselves as such.
RE: always been a bit odd to me  
Carson53 : 5/14/2019 11:27 am : link
In comment 14443105 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
that the staff seems to LOVE Halapio..yet he hasn't really done much here. I don't think "worried" is the word but I don't think someone with Pio's skills is the long term answer. Can he be adequate? Sure. But we need more than that.
.

He really hasn't done much in the NFL, I think the Giants
are hoping he is a 'late bloomer'. I just know they like him, based on how they talk about him.
I would say I am a bit concerned, we'll see how it plays out.
very concerned  
Enzo : 5/14/2019 11:30 am : link
about center and somewhat concerned about the line as a whole. Even after a complete overhaul, does this group project to be above average? And of course there's zero depth per usual. This is where you see the effects of DG's views on cap management, draft strategy, and positional value.

I think that Halapio and Pulley are good enough  
cjac : 5/14/2019 11:32 am : link
but i also wouldn't be surprised if the Giants get a backup who can be an upgrade over Pulley

I think they got him in early September last year, could happen again
RE: They liked John Sullivan last offseason  
Optimus-NY : 5/14/2019 11:34 am : link
In comment 14442962 ij_reilly said:
Quote:
The Rams released him and he hasn't signed with anyone.

I would feel much better with him on the roster.

Pulley or Sullivan? Which would you rather see wearing Big Blue?


Agreed.
I feel better about Pulley  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/14/2019 11:35 am : link
than Halapio.

Halapio got beat to badly in the games he played in for me to feel good about him. He needs to be the glue, and he looked just as bad when everything around him became unhinged.
RE: I feel better about Pulley  
Giantz_comeback : 5/14/2019 11:42 am : link
In comment 14443159 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
than Halapio.

Halapio got beat to badly in the games he played in for me to feel good about him. He needs to be the glue, and he looked just as bad when everything around him became unhinged.


We will have all of training camp and 4 preseason games to evaluate him , Pulley and O'Hagan. May the best man win.
john sullivan is a manimal  
Platos : 5/14/2019 11:43 am : link
but i think he's done. didn't he end the year on injury last season?

he's from Fairfield County, i believe he wrestled at Greenwich. guy was a beast.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Halapio has shown absolutely nothing in 5 years in the NFL  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/14/2019 11:44 am : link
In comment 14443085 Johnny5 said:
Quote:

That's true but I remember when we signed him he wanted to play his true position which is center. He started a LOT of games for the Browns and I remember specifically reading an article calling him out as one of the quietly successful players that helped Butch Davis to that 9-7 (2002 I think) season where it looked like between Couch and Holcomb they were on the upswing with good competition between QBs. I remember being stoked about signing him. You don't have to be an all pro to be a good solid player and a good solid signing.


It's been a long time since, so maybe the history is clouded. O'Hara spent four years with the browns. Was a bench player for two of them, started 16 and 14 games his final two seasons there. Can't speak to the articles you read at the time, but it's not quite as you remember.
Halapio sucks.  
Optimus-NY : 5/14/2019 11:46 am : link
I'm very worried.
I donít want average at center or RT  
Rick in Dallas : 5/14/2019 11:53 am : link
We need good players st those positions to maximize the generational talent of Saquon. Iím concerned about center as well as RT. We donít need stop gap players at those positions
RE: john sullivan is a manimal  
wonderback : 5/14/2019 12:08 pm : link
In comment 14443170 Platos said:
Quote:
but i think he's done. didn't he end the year on injury last season?

he's from Fairfield County, i believe he wrestled at Greenwich. guy was a beast.


Coached him as a little kid in Little League. Even then he was huge. Was always afraid he would hurt someone. Never had the experience of seeing someone that young be that big.
RE: Evan Brown?  
Watson : 5/14/2019 12:09 pm : link
In comment 14443090 Samiam said:
Quote:
Did anyone ever see him play? Had anything been written about him with any kind of useful information? Talk about a forgotten player


Iíve asked this question too. Doesnít seem like anybody knows much about him. Obviously, NYG saw something by protecting on the 53 last year particularly while Gettleman was constantly churning the bottom of the roster.
Very.  
Emlen'sGremlins : 5/14/2019 12:12 pm : link
Halapio is ham n' eggs and Pulley is terrible. Hopefully O'Hagan lives up to his PFF college rankings.
RE: I donít want average at center or RT  
Optimus-NY : 5/14/2019 12:19 pm : link
In comment 14443188 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
We need good players st those positions to maximize the generational talent of Saquon. Iím concerned about center as well as RT. We donít need stop gap players at those positions


Unfortunately, they are stop gaps. I think the Giants know this about Remmers, but are trying to bullshit their way through Center. It ain't gonna work.
Sullivan started in the Super Bowl, did not finish on IR  
ij_reilly : 5/14/2019 12:20 pm : link
He didn't have a stellar game, but the whole Rams OL didn't exactly shine.

Belichick had two weeks to game plan against that OL, and the Patriots worked over the Rams OL pretty good.
I'm a little worried...  
Klaatu : 5/14/2019 12:21 pm : link
But mostly because we never got to see if Halapio would show some improvement as the season progressed since he got hurt so early. Center was a brand new position for him.

Still, I was beating the drum for the Giants to draft a good C/OG prospect this year, and obviously that didn't happen. Maybe the UDFA they signed will surprise, maybe not. Maybe Brown steps it up, maybe not. We'll see.

For now, even though Pulley got a lot of playing time last year, my guess is that the Giants have Halapio penciled in as the starter, for better or for worse. It's not ideal, but I hope it's not fatal.
RE: We are better in 4 position and competition at C  
MotownGIANTS : 5/14/2019 12:22 pm : link
In comment 14442970 George from PA said:
Quote:
Let Halapio and Pulley battle it out....with solid guards on both sides.

If you are going to lose sleep...LBers, pass rush on defense and #1 WR


People are saying no plan but this is a massive change as to where we were! Also keep in mind if Carter trends as expected/hopes and Golden goes to pre injury #1 WR is the biggest issue. Who knows maybe Slayton gets better concentration and hands .... this is the last big chance for Latimore and Coleman as #1 .... maybe they seize the day at least for a season crazier things have happened
...  
GothamGiants : 5/14/2019 12:25 pm : link
I am not concerned with the guy lining up in between Hernandez and Zeitler

Remmers is a better RT than what weíve seen in a long time.

They are stopgaps. Canít fix everything in 2 offseasons. I expect offense, around Daniel Jones, to be highly prioritized in the draft and with free agency.

Step 1: Good drafts
Step 2: Get rid of dead weight
Step 3: Complete the ďrebuildĒ
Step 4: Legit SB/playoff contention

Weíre currently on step 2.5 ... 2020 Free Agency + another strong draft class gets us back to relevance. 2021 back to SB contention.

He inherited a trainwreck, on and off the field. Thatís what happens when you draft terribly for almost a decade and need to overpay vets to field a competent starting lineup ... a top heavy roster with 0 depth thatíll inevitably implode.
Center is a weak link  
WillVAB : 5/14/2019 12:28 pm : link
For a line thatís still very much in transition.
IMHO ...C should be the position we least worry about.  
Spider56 : 5/14/2019 12:30 pm : link
Our head coach is a former center and should be an authority on judging whatís necessary to play the position. If heís not happy with the guys we have, Iím sure it will be addressed. If he is happy yet wrong, we have far bigger things to worry about with the team. Keep the faith.
The concept of O'Hagen is intriguing  
Angus : 5/14/2019 12:46 pm : link
A shorter wrestler type - can keep center of gravity low and knows leverage. Beyond concept though....
Sy's grades on  
Angus : 5/14/2019 12:47 pm : link
Halapio's first two games were good...
RE: Not worried  
DavidinBMNY : 5/14/2019 12:48 pm : link
In comment 14443044 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
The position can be upgrade, and I wouldn't have batted an eye if we took a center in the draft, but the talent level is at least average at this point.

There also wouldn't be a huge drop off in talent if Halapio went down, there is some depth.
I agree. Especially since McAdoo didn't think Halapio can get the job done.
None  
5BowlsSoon : 5/14/2019 12:52 pm : link
Pio
Pulley
EBrown
OíHagen (beast in college)

I trust one of them will step up to the plate.
RE: RE: john sullivan is a manimal  
aimrocky : 5/14/2019 12:56 pm : link
In comment 14443215 wonderback said:
Quote:
In comment 14443170 Platos said:


Quote:


but i think he's done. didn't he end the year on injury last season?

he's from Fairfield County, i believe he wrestled at Greenwich. guy was a beast.



Coached him as a little kid in Little League. Even then he was huge. Was always afraid he would hurt someone. Never had the experience of seeing someone that young be that big.


You did? I was an umpire back then, and umped a few of Sullivan's games (when he was behind the plate).
I am ALWAYS worried about the Center position...  
M.S. : 5/14/2019 1:14 pm : link
...it is IMO the most important position on the team after QB.

Cannot understand the reason for optimism on this site for Jon Halapio???

I understand taking a "wait-and-see" stance, but optimism? The guy hasn't done jack shit yet for the Giants.
As is per usual around here  
Dave on the UWS : 5/14/2019 1:14 pm : link
the standard take is if we donít have 5 pro bowlers than they suck. The thought about Halapio was he was larger and stouter at the point of attack than Jones last year. He is still learning the Center position. Itís hard to project what his ceiling is. As for Pulley, he was the lowest graded starting center in the league in 2017. He was below average last year- at best.
Less worried than I was about RT  
Phil in LA : 5/14/2019 1:21 pm : link
because, there is some intriguing depth at C, like Brown and O'Hagan.
I find it amusing that some say Halipio played well  
Stratman : 5/14/2019 1:25 pm : link
in his 2 games before he got injured. The entire O-line was a disaster until mid-season when it became average at best. I don't know what to make of Halipio. He simply hasn't played that much. But, what we saw was nothing to write home about. Spencer Pulley seemed overmatched at times. Similar to Wheeler. I think both know what to do at their positions. They just got overmatched physically too often. I think you have to say that we know what we have in Pulley as a floor level. Hopefully, he gets stronger and improves. Halipio is a trust the coaches call. Watch Evans in the center competition.
This OL  
GothamGiants : 5/14/2019 1:32 pm : link
Has a solid LT, decent RT, and possibly the best G tandem in the league

2017: ***Flowers, *Pugh, **Richburg, Jerry, ***Hart

*missed 8 games, played in 15 over last 2 years, ďbelow averageĒ 2018 grade
** missed 12 games, ďbelow averageĒ 2018 grade
*** atrocious football players, could you have a worse T tandem?

Itís come a long way in 2 years.


RE: Sy's grades on  
Greg from LI : 5/14/2019 1:32 pm : link
In comment 14443275 Angus said:
Quote:
Halapio's first two games were good...


I wouldn't say that. At best it was damning with faint praise:

Quote:
Patrick Omameh and Jon Halapio didnít stand out in a negative way. They both allowed 1 pressure each but werenít on the radar much other than that. The issue was just a lack of difference making movement. The interior of the JAC defense went where they wanted to. Itís pretty bad that these two had the best grades of the OL, because by no means were they above average or even close to it.
the best G tandem in the league?  
Greg from LI : 5/14/2019 1:33 pm : link
baaahahahahaha....I'd suspect this guy actually IS Gettleman if Gettleman knew how to turn on a computer.
Evan Brown not Evans Duh!  
Stratman : 5/14/2019 1:36 pm : link
.
Very worried but  
Festina Lente : 5/14/2019 1:47 pm : link
I guess you cant fix everything in one go when you have as many problem areaa as the giants
RE: Luke warm take  
Beezer : 5/14/2019 1:47 pm : link
In comment 14443064 AcesUp said:
Quote:
But I think we'll be better at C than we will at RT. I don't really see either position as gaping holes, just large question marks backed by quality depth. Hernandez is a guy that I'm not taking for granted either, there are plenty of examples of promising young rookies that do not progress or even regress. This line really needs him to step up and for Solder to continue his momentum from last season. That's probably a bigger key to success than what level of mediocre the bargain types are.


Not a chance Hernandez regresses. Zero chance.
Worried isn't the right word for me.  
MM_in_NYC : 5/14/2019 1:54 pm : link
C is clearly a position we'll be looking to upgrade next offseason unless Pio breaks out, and anyway, we're in the middle of a rebuild and this upcoming season we are simply not going to be competitive, so I see no reason to worry. It's not like this piece is what is going to hold us back from greatness.

What I am "worried" about is the team eeking out a few more wins than they deserve and missing out on a prime draft target.
Biggest mistake of the draft was not ...  
Bluesbreaker : 5/14/2019 1:59 pm : link
Adding another starter to the O-line where clearly
RT and Center are still question marks .
Baker was my favorite CB in the draft but if we have
more than one injury to the starters it's gonna get
ugly .
Concerned....  
Reb8thVA : 5/14/2019 2:04 pm : link
putting trust in two players who so far have been journeymen at best is a big leap of faith.

I think Eli is at his best when he can step up in the pocket.

Moreover, I still have doubts about Schurmur's judgment.

I had hoped they would have drafted a C but alas they didn't.

All that said, I still hope it works out
RE: the best G tandem in the league?  
GothamGiants : 5/14/2019 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14443354 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
baaahahahahaha....I'd suspect this guy actually IS Gettleman if Gettleman knew how to turn on a computer.


1. Zeitler is 1 of the best guards in the NFL. Not even debatable.
2. Hernandez graded as 21st overall guard, as a rookie, and widely regarded as a huge steal and 1 of the most dominant run blockers to come out in recent memory.

Feel free to list all of the better Guard tandems in the league.
I'm not worried at all. More curious  
Beezer : 5/14/2019 2:10 pm : link
to see which one gets the starting nod. Not really a position where you'd want fluidity. It's one guy's and that's it. And I have no clue, all things considered, which one even might have the inside edge going in.

I guess because he's signed longer and is a couple years younger (26, opposed to Halapio being 28) I hope Pulley wins the job.

I do think adding Zeitler on the right helps and I don't see a chance of Hernandez regressing.

Remmers is at LEAST solid, from everything I'm reading on BBI, and it seemed like Solder got healthy AND worked through a slight learning curve regarding a different situation last year.

Just need some depth, and better than Wheeler (although for a back-up, he's certainly not the worst).

I'm pretty excited.

not worried at all  
Vanzetti : 5/14/2019 2:14 pm : link
Coaching staff seems to like Halapio. Then they have two guys behind him who are "true" centers.

As somebody said above, Pulley is servicable and has already started for parts of two seasons at center. Evan Brown is the guy with the explosive 36" vertical. He is the sleeper.

I'm far more concernded by Edge, safety, LB etc . . .

No OL has five all pros. And with a center, the mental part of the game is as important as the physical. That's why having true centers with NFL experience is important.

Center might not be strength this year but with the three guys they have, the position will be comptently manned.
Sure it's debateable  
Greg from LI : 5/14/2019 2:15 pm : link
Zeitler is solid, but in seven years in the league never been named to an All Pro team, or even the Pro Bowl, once.

Better tandems? Zack Martin and whoever starts opposite him on the Cowboys (doesn't matter who it is because Martin is far superior to any Giants linemen), Andrus Peat and Larry Warford, David DeCastro and Ramon Foster, Joel Bitonio and Austin Corbett (who Cleveland moved Zeitler out to promote, after all).....
RE: RE: Luke warm take  
AcesUp : 5/14/2019 2:20 pm : link
In comment 14443378 Beezer said:
Quote:
In comment 14443064 AcesUp said:


Quote:


But I think we'll be better at C than we will at RT. I don't really see either position as gaping holes, just large question marks backed by quality depth. Hernandez is a guy that I'm not taking for granted either, there are plenty of examples of promising young rookies that do not progress or even regress. This line really needs him to step up and for Solder to continue his momentum from last season. That's probably a bigger key to success than what level of mediocre the bargain types are.



Not a chance Hernandez regresses. Zero chance.


I don't think he will but that's a ridiculous statement. Recent history is littered with promising rookies or young players that fizzeled out. You don't even have to look past the Giants in the last 5 years to find two examples in Pugh and Richburg.
I realize that the team  
Beer Man : 5/14/2019 2:25 pm : link
picked up a great RG and hopefully decent RT, but they have been rebuilding the OL since 2012, it just seems like it should be better stocked by now.
I think you have to look at more than just  
Beezer : 5/14/2019 2:27 pm : link
the physical play on the field ... and Hernandez seems to check all the boxes. So am I over the top saying "no chance?" Sure. Just I think it's really not something worth even considering, when there are so many other areas of question or concern.
RE: I think you have to look at more than just  
AcesUp : 5/14/2019 2:35 pm : link
In comment 14443453 Beezer said:
Quote:
the physical play on the field ... and Hernandez seems to check all the boxes. So am I over the top saying "no chance?" Sure. Just I think it's really not something worth even considering, when there are so many other areas of question or concern.


How Hernandez looks this year is much more important to the overall big picture than how our one year stop gaps and bargain bin flyers do. To me at least because I'm looking more towards 2020 and beyond.

Speking of this year, it's important for the C position as well because if he can be the stud that many are assuming that he already is (he's not there yet), then the guy playing in between he and Zeitler takes on less importance.
RE: Sure it's debateable  
GothamGiants : 5/14/2019 2:45 pm : link
In comment 14443433 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Zeitler is solid, but in seven years in the league never been named to an All Pro team, or even the Pro Bowl, once.

Better tandems? Zack Martin and whoever starts opposite him on the Cowboys (doesn't matter who it is because Martin is far superior to any Giants linemen), Andrus Peat and Larry Warford, David DeCastro and Ramon Foster, Joel Bitonio and Austin Corbett (who Cleveland moved Zeitler out to promote, after all).....


Even with dismissing Zeitlerís dominance (there arenít 10 better Guards in the entire league), dismissing Hernandez entirely, and assuming Dallas/Clevelandís other G plug ins will automatically play well ... you still came up with only 4 tandems

Thank you for actually proving my point. Always a pleasure!

I also saw an article  
Beer Man : 5/14/2019 2:50 pm : link
yesterday on James OíHagan, where they listed him as one of the undrafted hidden gems. Although only 6'1", he was one of the top Centers in the nation last year, and supposedly, what he lacks in height, he makes-up for using leverage.
I really wish we picked up a Center and Tackle in this past  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/14/2019 2:54 pm : link
draft. A tackle would have made sense as they could have played him at RT and if he was skilled enough, move him to RT.

We are going to be back to having 3 major holes on the offensive lines in a year or 2. We need an influx of young grown talent now.

Center was also a position that could have been drafted this past draft that there was an abundance of great talent.
I proved your point that the Giants will have the best guards in the  
Greg from LI : 5/14/2019 2:56 pm : link
league.....by off the top of my head naming four that are head and shoulders better. You're quite the logician.
6'1"?  
Greg from LI : 5/14/2019 2:57 pm : link
Is he tough as a boot?
RE: I really wish we picked up a Center and Tackle in this past  
Beer Man : 5/14/2019 3:02 pm : link
In comment 14443494 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
draft. A tackle would have made sense as they could have played him at RT and if he was skilled enough, move him to RT.

We are going to be back to having 3 major holes on the offensive lines in a year or 2. We need an influx of young grown talent now.

Center was also a position that could have been drafted this past draft that there was an abundance of great talent.
Agree. Its early, but as of now next off-season the team should be looking at OL/ER/WR and blocking TE
RE: I proved your point that the Giants will have the best guards in the  
GothamGiants : 5/14/2019 3:03 pm : link
In comment 14443502 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
league.....by off the top of my head naming four that are head and shoulders better. You're quite the logician.


You conveniently left out ďpossiblyĒ ... as in ď1 of the best G tandems in the league with the potential to be bestĒ

So yes, by underestimating Zeitler, completely dismissing Hernandez, and assuming DAL/CLE guards will automatically play well ... you still managed to only name 4 tandems that might be better.

Hereís a thought ... Zeitler is already an elite guard and maybe this guy linked below actually (gasp) gets better ...

https://mobile.twitter.com/pff_giants/status/1000104969331130368


Whoís that LG blocking for Saquon? - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I really wish we picked up a Center and Tackle in this past  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/14/2019 3:09 pm : link
In comment 14443514 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 14443494 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


draft. A tackle would have made sense as they could have played him at RT and if he was skilled enough, move him to RT.


RT should have been LT. Meaning we draft a guy to play RT day 1 and if he is good enough transition him to LT.
I feel like the Giants are  
Dnew15 : 5/14/2019 3:14 pm : link
due to get a little lucky with a guy on the OL. It's time to find a guy that wasn't highly touted coming out of college or a top of the line expensive FA pick-up to be solid.
It's been awhile since Deihl, Seibert, McKenzie ...
I see Halapio as a good run blocker.  
Brown Recluse : 5/14/2019 3:14 pm : link
He is a powerful dude and that's always been his strength going back to college.

From that perspective at least, the line will be leaps and bounds better with him, Hernandez, and now Zeitler.



RE: I feel like the Giants are  
GothamGiants : 5/14/2019 3:27 pm : link
In comment 14443532 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
due to get a little lucky with a guy on the OL. It's time to find a guy that wasn't highly touted coming out of college or a top of the line expensive FA pick-up to be solid.
It's been awhile since Deihl, Seibert, McKenzie ...


Free agency next year may be our answer (Collins, Williams) although Iíll gladly take another Diehl-type late rounder

I actually like the C positionís potential, especially OíHagan
Elite = not a single postseason honor in a 7 year career  
Greg from LI : 5/14/2019 3:34 pm : link


The Giants possibly have the best guard tandem in the NFL!
Seems like Center  
Dirt1 : 5/14/2019 4:03 pm : link
is the weakest link on the line right now.


RE: RE: Luke warm take  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/14/2019 4:03 pm : link
In comment 14443378 Beezer said:
Quote:
In comment 14443064 AcesUp said:


Quote:


But I think we'll be better at C than we will at RT. I don't really see either position as gaping holes, just large question marks backed by quality depth. Hernandez is a guy that I'm not taking for granted either, there are plenty of examples of promising young rookies that do not progress or even regress. This line really needs him to step up and for Solder to continue his momentum from last season. That's probably a bigger key to success than what level of mediocre the bargain types are.



Not a chance Hernandez regresses. Zero chance.


Yeah!

Signed,
All-Rookie Team Member Justin Pugh.



Young players only ever improve, right?
no, see Pugh and Richburg were drafted by Reese  
Greg from LI : 5/14/2019 4:06 pm : link
So they suxed despite very promising rookie seasons. Dave Gettleman only drafts awesome stars!
More worried  
Pascal4554 : 5/14/2019 4:10 pm : link
about defense and Remmers staying healthy. If the center sucks badly enough DG will find a new one like he did when he pulled the plug on Patrick Omameh.
I'm not that worried because having Hernandez and Zeitler  
Zeke's Alibi : 5/14/2019 4:11 pm : link
gives us one of the better pairings at G in the NFL.
Worried, yes  
.McL. : 5/14/2019 6:30 pm : link
Mostly because Center is the position that requires the most mental capabilities of any of th elineman. So far Halapio hasn't shown that he has that. It won't matter how good the rest of the players are if he is calling blocking schemes that have 3 vs. 2 on one side, and 2 vs 3 on the other (which I saw him do several times in the 2 games he played). Those kind of mental mistakes settled down with Greco and Pulley... At least then the suckitude of the line was based on the players skills and not being out of position.
PFF Guard rankings (2018)  
GothamGiants : 5/14/2019 7:01 pm : link
- Zeitler 6, Hernandez 21
- Peat 77, Warford 31
- Williams 52, Martin 2
- Foster 16, DeCastro 11


Weird ... itís like logic, reasoning, direct observation , and advanced analytics support my claim of the Giants having a top G tandem that could quite possibly end up the best tandem in football.

No way Hernandez actually improves in year 2 or Zeitler gets more notoriety now that heís playing in NY instead of CIN/CLE ... no way




not to re-litigate but Pugh's biggest issue was staying on the field  
Eric on Li : 5/14/2019 7:02 pm : link
if he could have done that he'd still be here. He was an effective player when he played, which is why he got a good sized contract. So a little odd to make him the example of performance regression when his main issue isn't performance it's that he still can't stay on the field to perform.

Among G's via PFF Hernandez was #21 last year and Zeitler #6 but most importantly both started 16 games, which is something Zeitler has done 4 straight years and Hernandez did every year in college. I can't imagine anyone would argue against those 2 being far and away the best guard combo we've had since Snee/Seubert. Which is almost 10 years ago already. So...progress.

Generally the teams with the best players try to keep them. I don't know who else is on the list of top 10-20 guards, but I'd imagine not that many others higher ranked than ours have changed teams in the last 18 months. Decastro hasn't, Martin hasn't, Yanda hasn't, Scherff hasn't, etc. Probably just Norwell via FA and Nelson via draft. Same is probably true of LT's (and Solder, who was ranked #21 this past year). This OL may be far from a top unit but it's also far from what it was when Gettleman arrived with Flowers/Hart bookending the tackles, undersized Brett Jones at C, and John jerry being the most reliable G on the team.
None  
Joey in VA : 5/14/2019 7:05 pm : link
Pulley was pretty bad early but he really solidified his play as the year wore on, as did most everyone on offense. If he's not beating out Pio, which he may we are in good shape either way.
RE: None  
Go Terps : 5/14/2019 7:25 pm : link
In comment 14443846 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Pulley was pretty bad early but he really solidified his play as the year wore on, as did most everyone on offense. If he's not beating out Pio, which he may we are in good shape either way.


Am I crazy for thinking that center is the most important position on the line?
RE: RE: None  
.McL. : 5/14/2019 7:29 pm : link
In comment 14443861 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14443846 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


Pulley was pretty bad early but he really solidified his play as the year wore on, as did most everyone on offense. If he's not beating out Pio, which he may we are in good shape either way.



Am I crazy for thinking that center is the most important position on the line?

Yeah, I agree with you, or at least say it it very close with LT... But Shhh.... Saying that will bring a serious round of heckling. At least that what has happened to me.
RE: RE: None  
Klaatu : 5/14/2019 7:34 pm : link
In comment 14443861 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14443846 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


Pulley was pretty bad early but he really solidified his play as the year wore on, as did most everyone on offense. If he's not beating out Pio, which he may we are in good shape either way.



Am I crazy for thinking that center is the most important position on the line?


Nope. Dave-Te' Thomas has said the same thing many times.
RE: RE: None  
Joey in VA : 5/15/2019 7:24 am : link
In comment 14443861 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14443846 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


Pulley was pretty bad early but he really solidified his play as the year wore on, as did most everyone on offense. If he's not beating out Pio, which he may we are in good shape either way.



Am I crazy for thinking that center is the most important position on the line?
No you aren't wrong, he's the lynchpin essentially but Pulley played well down the stretch with a nightmare on his right side. Better players around an OL has a domino effect, it's the weakest link in the chain idea. Granted we went 1-3 in our last 4 but we had good offensive games save Tennessee. We ran well, Eli was protected better and our offense clicked. I would like to see an upgrade sure, but we are so full of holes it's ridiculous. The roster and OL keeps improving and we'll see what happens at center. I for one like what I saw from Halapio and Pulley after he settled in. Most disagree but I think Halapio can play.
This is about trusting Gettleman and Shurmur  
Giantimistic : 5/15/2019 8:25 am : link
I have decided to trust them so I have no worries about this position. If I canít trust a GM who has a solid history building olines and a HC who was a college center, then I am not sure what to trust with the team. They seem to like their centers for now so I do too. What will be most telling is if they draft one high next year which would show they were talking up this yearís players but really just didnít have the chance to upgrade.
Mini Camp might be a clue  
Blue Racer : 5/15/2019 9:15 am : link
After mini camp, they may get a better take on whether or not to bring in more competition at center. The only one out there who appears to be an option is Sullivan. So maybe they might try to get him at a vet minimum to come in and compete.
While true  
Nolan64 : 5/15/2019 2:24 pm : link
that as an O-Line we still have a lot of room for improvement. Pulley wasn't the best but in a pinch he fared better than we could've hoped. Halapio is the coach's choice and not just for his strength which is prodigious but Shurmur an ex center, is confident he can do the job. While exploring options, adding competition can only help in developing both players. As a whole, a big shout out to DG. True northeasterner. He's not going to let dissenting outside influences deter him from his mandate. Trying to rebuild a roster and remain competitive cannot be easy. 1 more year good draft and quality FA signings and we can challenge for the playoffs and eventually the SB.
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