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Looking at the OL now, how worried are you about center?

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/14/2019 9:47 am
Very worried?

Not as worried because of Zeitler and Hernandez flanking the position?

Halapio or Pulley will be fine?
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RE: always been a bit odd to me  
Carson53 : 5/14/2019 11:27 am : link
In comment 14443105 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
that the staff seems to LOVE Halapio..yet he hasn't really done much here. I don't think "worried" is the word but I don't think someone with Pio's skills is the long term answer. Can he be adequate? Sure. But we need more than that.
.

He really hasn't done much in the NFL, I think the Giants
are hoping he is a 'late bloomer'. I just know they like him, based on how they talk about him.
I would say I am a bit concerned, we'll see how it plays out.
very concerned  
Enzo : 5/14/2019 11:30 am : link
about center and somewhat concerned about the line as a whole. Even after a complete overhaul, does this group project to be above average? And of course there's zero depth per usual. This is where you see the effects of DG's views on cap management, draft strategy, and positional value.

I think that Halapio and Pulley are good enough  
cjac : 5/14/2019 11:32 am : link
but i also wouldn't be surprised if the Giants get a backup who can be an upgrade over Pulley

I think they got him in early September last year, could happen again
RE: They liked John Sullivan last offseason  
Optimus-NY : 5/14/2019 11:34 am : link
In comment 14442962 ij_reilly said:
Quote:
The Rams released him and he hasn't signed with anyone.

I would feel much better with him on the roster.

Pulley or Sullivan? Which would you rather see wearing Big Blue?


Agreed.
I feel better about Pulley  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/14/2019 11:35 am : link
than Halapio.

Halapio got beat to badly in the games he played in for me to feel good about him. He needs to be the glue, and he looked just as bad when everything around him became unhinged.
RE: I feel better about Pulley  
Giantz_comeback : 5/14/2019 11:42 am : link
In comment 14443159 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
than Halapio.

Halapio got beat to badly in the games he played in for me to feel good about him. He needs to be the glue, and he looked just as bad when everything around him became unhinged.


We will have all of training camp and 4 preseason games to evaluate him , Pulley and O'Hagan. May the best man win.
john sullivan is a manimal  
Platos : 5/14/2019 11:43 am : link
but i think he's done. didn't he end the year on injury last season?

he's from Fairfield County, i believe he wrestled at Greenwich. guy was a beast.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Halapio has shown absolutely nothing in 5 years in the NFL  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/14/2019 11:44 am : link
In comment 14443085 Johnny5 said:
Quote:

That's true but I remember when we signed him he wanted to play his true position which is center. He started a LOT of games for the Browns and I remember specifically reading an article calling him out as one of the quietly successful players that helped Butch Davis to that 9-7 (2002 I think) season where it looked like between Couch and Holcomb they were on the upswing with good competition between QBs. I remember being stoked about signing him. You don't have to be an all pro to be a good solid player and a good solid signing.


It's been a long time since, so maybe the history is clouded. O'Hara spent four years with the browns. Was a bench player for two of them, started 16 and 14 games his final two seasons there. Can't speak to the articles you read at the time, but it's not quite as you remember.
Halapio sucks.  
Optimus-NY : 5/14/2019 11:46 am : link
I'm very worried.
I don’t want average at center or RT  
Rick in Dallas : 5/14/2019 11:53 am : link
We need good players st those positions to maximize the generational talent of Saquon. I’m concerned about center as well as RT. We don’t need stop gap players at those positions
RE: john sullivan is a manimal  
wonderback : 5/14/2019 12:08 pm : link
In comment 14443170 Platos said:
Quote:
but i think he's done. didn't he end the year on injury last season?

he's from Fairfield County, i believe he wrestled at Greenwich. guy was a beast.


Coached him as a little kid in Little League. Even then he was huge. Was always afraid he would hurt someone. Never had the experience of seeing someone that young be that big.
RE: Evan Brown?  
Watson : 5/14/2019 12:09 pm : link
In comment 14443090 Samiam said:
Quote:
Did anyone ever see him play? Had anything been written about him with any kind of useful information? Talk about a forgotten player


I’ve asked this question too. Doesn’t seem like anybody knows much about him. Obviously, NYG saw something by protecting on the 53 last year particularly while Gettleman was constantly churning the bottom of the roster.
Very.  
Emlen'sGremlins : 5/14/2019 12:12 pm : link
Halapio is ham n' eggs and Pulley is terrible. Hopefully O'Hagan lives up to his PFF college rankings.
RE: I don’t want average at center or RT  
Optimus-NY : 5/14/2019 12:19 pm : link
In comment 14443188 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
We need good players st those positions to maximize the generational talent of Saquon. I’m concerned about center as well as RT. We don’t need stop gap players at those positions


Unfortunately, they are stop gaps. I think the Giants know this about Remmers, but are trying to bullshit their way through Center. It ain't gonna work.
Sullivan started in the Super Bowl, did not finish on IR  
ij_reilly : 5/14/2019 12:20 pm : link
He didn't have a stellar game, but the whole Rams OL didn't exactly shine.

Belichick had two weeks to game plan against that OL, and the Patriots worked over the Rams OL pretty good.
I'm a little worried...  
Klaatu : 5/14/2019 12:21 pm : link
But mostly because we never got to see if Halapio would show some improvement as the season progressed since he got hurt so early. Center was a brand new position for him.

Still, I was beating the drum for the Giants to draft a good C/OG prospect this year, and obviously that didn't happen. Maybe the UDFA they signed will surprise, maybe not. Maybe Brown steps it up, maybe not. We'll see.

For now, even though Pulley got a lot of playing time last year, my guess is that the Giants have Halapio penciled in as the starter, for better or for worse. It's not ideal, but I hope it's not fatal.
RE: We are better in 4 position and competition at C  
MotownGIANTS : 5/14/2019 12:22 pm : link
In comment 14442970 George from PA said:
Quote:
Let Halapio and Pulley battle it out....with solid guards on both sides.

If you are going to lose sleep...LBers, pass rush on defense and #1 WR


People are saying no plan but this is a massive change as to where we were! Also keep in mind if Carter trends as expected/hopes and Golden goes to pre injury #1 WR is the biggest issue. Who knows maybe Slayton gets better concentration and hands .... this is the last big chance for Latimore and Coleman as #1 .... maybe they seize the day at least for a season crazier things have happened
...  
GothamGiants : 5/14/2019 12:25 pm : link
I am not concerned with the guy lining up in between Hernandez and Zeitler

Remmers is a better RT than what we’ve seen in a long time.

They are stopgaps. Can’t fix everything in 2 offseasons. I expect offense, around Daniel Jones, to be highly prioritized in the draft and with free agency.

Step 1: Good drafts
Step 2: Get rid of dead weight
Step 3: Complete the “rebuild”
Step 4: Legit SB/playoff contention

We’re currently on step 2.5 ... 2020 Free Agency + another strong draft class gets us back to relevance. 2021 back to SB contention.

He inherited a trainwreck, on and off the field. That’s what happens when you draft terribly for almost a decade and need to overpay vets to field a competent starting lineup ... a top heavy roster with 0 depth that’ll inevitably implode.
Center is a weak link  
WillVAB : 5/14/2019 12:28 pm : link
For a line that’s still very much in transition.
IMHO ...C should be the position we least worry about.  
Spider56 : 5/14/2019 12:30 pm : link
Our head coach is a former center and should be an authority on judging what’s necessary to play the position. If he’s not happy with the guys we have, I’m sure it will be addressed. If he is happy yet wrong, we have far bigger things to worry about with the team. Keep the faith.
The concept of O'Hagen is intriguing  
Angus : 5/14/2019 12:46 pm : link
A shorter wrestler type - can keep center of gravity low and knows leverage. Beyond concept though....
Sy's grades on  
Angus : 5/14/2019 12:47 pm : link
Halapio's first two games were good...
RE: Not worried  
DavidinBMNY : 5/14/2019 12:48 pm : link
In comment 14443044 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
The position can be upgrade, and I wouldn't have batted an eye if we took a center in the draft, but the talent level is at least average at this point.

There also wouldn't be a huge drop off in talent if Halapio went down, there is some depth.
I agree. Especially since McAdoo didn't think Halapio can get the job done.
None  
5BowlsSoon : 5/14/2019 12:52 pm : link
Pio
Pulley
EBrown
O’Hagen (beast in college)

I trust one of them will step up to the plate.
RE: RE: john sullivan is a manimal  
aimrocky : 5/14/2019 12:56 pm : link
In comment 14443215 wonderback said:
Quote:
In comment 14443170 Platos said:


Quote:


but i think he's done. didn't he end the year on injury last season?

he's from Fairfield County, i believe he wrestled at Greenwich. guy was a beast.



Coached him as a little kid in Little League. Even then he was huge. Was always afraid he would hurt someone. Never had the experience of seeing someone that young be that big.


You did? I was an umpire back then, and umped a few of Sullivan's games (when he was behind the plate).
I am ALWAYS worried about the Center position...  
M.S. : 5/14/2019 1:14 pm : link
...it is IMO the most important position on the team after QB.

Cannot understand the reason for optimism on this site for Jon Halapio???

I understand taking a "wait-and-see" stance, but optimism? The guy hasn't done jack shit yet for the Giants.
As is per usual around here  
Dave on the UWS : 5/14/2019 1:14 pm : link
the standard take is if we don’t have 5 pro bowlers than they suck. The thought about Halapio was he was larger and stouter at the point of attack than Jones last year. He is still learning the Center position. It’s hard to project what his ceiling is. As for Pulley, he was the lowest graded starting center in the league in 2017. He was below average last year- at best.
Less worried than I was about RT  
Phil in LA : 5/14/2019 1:21 pm : link
because, there is some intriguing depth at C, like Brown and O'Hagan.
I find it amusing that some say Halipio played well  
Stratman : 5/14/2019 1:25 pm : link
in his 2 games before he got injured. The entire O-line was a disaster until mid-season when it became average at best. I don't know what to make of Halipio. He simply hasn't played that much. But, what we saw was nothing to write home about. Spencer Pulley seemed overmatched at times. Similar to Wheeler. I think both know what to do at their positions. They just got overmatched physically too often. I think you have to say that we know what we have in Pulley as a floor level. Hopefully, he gets stronger and improves. Halipio is a trust the coaches call. Watch Evans in the center competition.
This OL  
GothamGiants : 5/14/2019 1:32 pm : link
Has a solid LT, decent RT, and possibly the best G tandem in the league

2017: ***Flowers, *Pugh, **Richburg, Jerry, ***Hart

*missed 8 games, played in 15 over last 2 years, “below average” 2018 grade
** missed 12 games, “below average” 2018 grade
*** atrocious football players, could you have a worse T tandem?

It’s come a long way in 2 years.


RE: Sy's grades on  
Greg from LI : 5/14/2019 1:32 pm : link
In comment 14443275 Angus said:
Quote:
Halapio's first two games were good...


I wouldn't say that. At best it was damning with faint praise:

Quote:
Patrick Omameh and Jon Halapio didn’t stand out in a negative way. They both allowed 1 pressure each but weren’t on the radar much other than that. The issue was just a lack of difference making movement. The interior of the JAC defense went where they wanted to. It’s pretty bad that these two had the best grades of the OL, because by no means were they above average or even close to it.
the best G tandem in the league?  
Greg from LI : 5/14/2019 1:33 pm : link
baaahahahahaha....I'd suspect this guy actually IS Gettleman if Gettleman knew how to turn on a computer.
Evan Brown not Evans Duh!  
Stratman : 5/14/2019 1:36 pm : link
.
Very worried but  
Festina Lente : 5/14/2019 1:47 pm : link
I guess you cant fix everything in one go when you have as many problem areaa as the giants
RE: Luke warm take  
Beezer : 5/14/2019 1:47 pm : link
In comment 14443064 AcesUp said:
Quote:
But I think we'll be better at C than we will at RT. I don't really see either position as gaping holes, just large question marks backed by quality depth. Hernandez is a guy that I'm not taking for granted either, there are plenty of examples of promising young rookies that do not progress or even regress. This line really needs him to step up and for Solder to continue his momentum from last season. That's probably a bigger key to success than what level of mediocre the bargain types are.


Not a chance Hernandez regresses. Zero chance.
Worried isn't the right word for me.  
MM_in_NYC : 5/14/2019 1:54 pm : link
C is clearly a position we'll be looking to upgrade next offseason unless Pio breaks out, and anyway, we're in the middle of a rebuild and this upcoming season we are simply not going to be competitive, so I see no reason to worry. It's not like this piece is what is going to hold us back from greatness.

What I am "worried" about is the team eeking out a few more wins than they deserve and missing out on a prime draft target.
Biggest mistake of the draft was not ...  
Bluesbreaker : 5/14/2019 1:59 pm : link
Adding another starter to the O-line where clearly
RT and Center are still question marks .
Baker was my favorite CB in the draft but if we have
more than one injury to the starters it's gonna get
ugly .
Concerned....  
Reb8thVA : 5/14/2019 2:04 pm : link
putting trust in two players who so far have been journeymen at best is a big leap of faith.

I think Eli is at his best when he can step up in the pocket.

Moreover, I still have doubts about Schurmur's judgment.

I had hoped they would have drafted a C but alas they didn't.

All that said, I still hope it works out
RE: the best G tandem in the league?  
GothamGiants : 5/14/2019 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14443354 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
baaahahahahaha....I'd suspect this guy actually IS Gettleman if Gettleman knew how to turn on a computer.


1. Zeitler is 1 of the best guards in the NFL. Not even debatable.
2. Hernandez graded as 21st overall guard, as a rookie, and widely regarded as a huge steal and 1 of the most dominant run blockers to come out in recent memory.

Feel free to list all of the better Guard tandems in the league.
I'm not worried at all. More curious  
Beezer : 5/14/2019 2:10 pm : link
to see which one gets the starting nod. Not really a position where you'd want fluidity. It's one guy's and that's it. And I have no clue, all things considered, which one even might have the inside edge going in.

I guess because he's signed longer and is a couple years younger (26, opposed to Halapio being 28) I hope Pulley wins the job.

I do think adding Zeitler on the right helps and I don't see a chance of Hernandez regressing.

Remmers is at LEAST solid, from everything I'm reading on BBI, and it seemed like Solder got healthy AND worked through a slight learning curve regarding a different situation last year.

Just need some depth, and better than Wheeler (although for a back-up, he's certainly not the worst).

I'm pretty excited.

not worried at all  
Vanzetti : 5/14/2019 2:14 pm : link
Coaching staff seems to like Halapio. Then they have two guys behind him who are "true" centers.

As somebody said above, Pulley is servicable and has already started for parts of two seasons at center. Evan Brown is the guy with the explosive 36" vertical. He is the sleeper.

I'm far more concernded by Edge, safety, LB etc . . .

No OL has five all pros. And with a center, the mental part of the game is as important as the physical. That's why having true centers with NFL experience is important.

Center might not be strength this year but with the three guys they have, the position will be comptently manned.
Sure it's debateable  
Greg from LI : 5/14/2019 2:15 pm : link
Zeitler is solid, but in seven years in the league never been named to an All Pro team, or even the Pro Bowl, once.

Better tandems? Zack Martin and whoever starts opposite him on the Cowboys (doesn't matter who it is because Martin is far superior to any Giants linemen), Andrus Peat and Larry Warford, David DeCastro and Ramon Foster, Joel Bitonio and Austin Corbett (who Cleveland moved Zeitler out to promote, after all).....
RE: RE: Luke warm take  
AcesUp : 5/14/2019 2:20 pm : link
In comment 14443378 Beezer said:
Quote:
In comment 14443064 AcesUp said:


Quote:


But I think we'll be better at C than we will at RT. I don't really see either position as gaping holes, just large question marks backed by quality depth. Hernandez is a guy that I'm not taking for granted either, there are plenty of examples of promising young rookies that do not progress or even regress. This line really needs him to step up and for Solder to continue his momentum from last season. That's probably a bigger key to success than what level of mediocre the bargain types are.



Not a chance Hernandez regresses. Zero chance.


I don't think he will but that's a ridiculous statement. Recent history is littered with promising rookies or young players that fizzeled out. You don't even have to look past the Giants in the last 5 years to find two examples in Pugh and Richburg.
I realize that the team  
Beer Man : 5/14/2019 2:25 pm : link
picked up a great RG and hopefully decent RT, but they have been rebuilding the OL since 2012, it just seems like it should be better stocked by now.
I think you have to look at more than just  
Beezer : 5/14/2019 2:27 pm : link
the physical play on the field ... and Hernandez seems to check all the boxes. So am I over the top saying "no chance?" Sure. Just I think it's really not something worth even considering, when there are so many other areas of question or concern.
RE: I think you have to look at more than just  
AcesUp : 5/14/2019 2:35 pm : link
In comment 14443453 Beezer said:
Quote:
the physical play on the field ... and Hernandez seems to check all the boxes. So am I over the top saying "no chance?" Sure. Just I think it's really not something worth even considering, when there are so many other areas of question or concern.


How Hernandez looks this year is much more important to the overall big picture than how our one year stop gaps and bargain bin flyers do. To me at least because I'm looking more towards 2020 and beyond.

Speking of this year, it's important for the C position as well because if he can be the stud that many are assuming that he already is (he's not there yet), then the guy playing in between he and Zeitler takes on less importance.
RE: Sure it's debateable  
GothamGiants : 5/14/2019 2:45 pm : link
In comment 14443433 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Zeitler is solid, but in seven years in the league never been named to an All Pro team, or even the Pro Bowl, once.

Better tandems? Zack Martin and whoever starts opposite him on the Cowboys (doesn't matter who it is because Martin is far superior to any Giants linemen), Andrus Peat and Larry Warford, David DeCastro and Ramon Foster, Joel Bitonio and Austin Corbett (who Cleveland moved Zeitler out to promote, after all).....


Even with dismissing Zeitler’s dominance (there aren’t 10 better Guards in the entire league), dismissing Hernandez entirely, and assuming Dallas/Cleveland’s other G plug ins will automatically play well ... you still came up with only 4 tandems

Thank you for actually proving my point. Always a pleasure!

I also saw an article  
Beer Man : 5/14/2019 2:50 pm : link
yesterday on James O’Hagan, where they listed him as one of the undrafted hidden gems. Although only 6'1", he was one of the top Centers in the nation last year, and supposedly, what he lacks in height, he makes-up for using leverage.
I really wish we picked up a Center and Tackle in this past  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/14/2019 2:54 pm : link
draft. A tackle would have made sense as they could have played him at RT and if he was skilled enough, move him to RT.

We are going to be back to having 3 major holes on the offensive lines in a year or 2. We need an influx of young grown talent now.

Center was also a position that could have been drafted this past draft that there was an abundance of great talent.
I proved your point that the Giants will have the best guards in the  
Greg from LI : 5/14/2019 2:56 pm : link
league.....by off the top of my head naming four that are head and shoulders better. You're quite the logician.
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