that the staff seems to LOVE Halapio..yet he hasn't really done much here. I don't think "worried" is the word but I don't think someone with Pio's skills is the long term answer. Can he be adequate? Sure. But we need more than that.
.
He really hasn't done much in the NFL, I think the Giants
are hoping he is a 'late bloomer'. I just know they like him, based on how they talk about him.
I would say I am a bit concerned, we'll see how it plays out.
about center and somewhat concerned about the line as a whole. Even after a complete overhaul, does this group project to be above average? And of course there's zero depth per usual. This is where you see the effects of DG's views on cap management, draft strategy, and positional value.
Halapio got beat to badly in the games he played in for me to feel good about him. He needs to be the glue, and he looked just as bad when everything around him became unhinged.
Halapio got beat to badly in the games he played in for me to feel good about him. He needs to be the glue, and he looked just as bad when everything around him became unhinged.
We will have all of training camp and 4 preseason games to evaluate him , Pulley and O'Hagan. May the best man win.
That's true but I remember when we signed him he wanted to play his true position which is center. He started a LOT of games for the Browns and I remember specifically reading an article calling him out as one of the quietly successful players that helped Butch Davis to that 9-7 (2002 I think) season where it looked like between Couch and Holcomb they were on the upswing with good competition between QBs. I remember being stoked about signing him. You don't have to be an all pro to be a good solid player and a good solid signing.
It's been a long time since, so maybe the history is clouded. O'Hara spent four years with the browns. Was a bench player for two of them, started 16 and 14 games his final two seasons there. Can't speak to the articles you read at the time, but it's not quite as you remember.
We need good players st those positions to maximize the generational talent of Saquon. I’m concerned about center as well as RT. We don’t need stop gap players at those positions
but i think he's done. didn't he end the year on injury last season?
he's from Fairfield County, i believe he wrestled at Greenwich. guy was a beast.
Coached him as a little kid in Little League. Even then he was huge. Was always afraid he would hurt someone. Never had the experience of seeing someone that young be that big.
Did anyone ever see him play? Had anything been written about him with any kind of useful information? Talk about a forgotten player
I’ve asked this question too. Doesn’t seem like anybody knows much about him. Obviously, NYG saw something by protecting on the 53 last year particularly while Gettleman was constantly churning the bottom of the roster.
We need good players st those positions to maximize the generational talent of Saquon. I’m concerned about center as well as RT. We don’t need stop gap players at those positions
Unfortunately, they are stop gaps. I think the Giants know this about Remmers, but are trying to bullshit their way through Center. It ain't gonna work.
Sullivan started in the Super Bowl, did not finish on IR Â
But mostly because we never got to see if Halapio would show some improvement as the season progressed since he got hurt so early. Center was a brand new position for him.
Still, I was beating the drum for the Giants to draft a good C/OG prospect this year, and obviously that didn't happen. Maybe the UDFA they signed will surprise, maybe not. Maybe Brown steps it up, maybe not. We'll see.
For now, even though Pulley got a lot of playing time last year, my guess is that the Giants have Halapio penciled in as the starter, for better or for worse. It's not ideal, but I hope it's not fatal.
RE: We are better in 4 position and competition at C Â
Let Halapio and Pulley battle it out....with solid guards on both sides.
If you are going to lose sleep...LBers, pass rush on defense and #1 WR
People are saying no plan but this is a massive change as to where we were! Also keep in mind if Carter trends as expected/hopes and Golden goes to pre injury #1 WR is the biggest issue. Who knows maybe Slayton gets better concentration and hands .... this is the last big chance for Latimore and Coleman as #1 .... maybe they seize the day at least for a season crazier things have happened
I am not concerned with the guy lining up in between Hernandez and Zeitler
Remmers is a better RT than what we’ve seen in a long time.
They are stopgaps. Can’t fix everything in 2 offseasons. I expect offense, around Daniel Jones, to be highly prioritized in the draft and with free agency.
Step 1: Good drafts
Step 2: Get rid of dead weight
Step 3: Complete the “rebuild”
Step 4: Legit SB/playoff contention
We’re currently on step 2.5 ... 2020 Free Agency + another strong draft class gets us back to relevance. 2021 back to SB contention.
He inherited a trainwreck, on and off the field. That’s what happens when you draft terribly for almost a decade and need to overpay vets to field a competent starting lineup ... a top heavy roster with 0 depth that’ll inevitably implode.
Our head coach is a former center and should be an authority on judging what’s necessary to play the position. If he’s not happy with the guys we have, I’m sure it will be addressed. If he is happy yet wrong, we have far bigger things to worry about with the team. Keep the faith.
The position can be upgrade, and I wouldn't have batted an eye if we took a center in the draft, but the talent level is at least average at this point.
There also wouldn't be a huge drop off in talent if Halapio went down, there is some depth.
I agree. Especially since McAdoo didn't think Halapio can get the job done.
but i think he's done. didn't he end the year on injury last season?
he's from Fairfield County, i believe he wrestled at Greenwich. guy was a beast.
Coached him as a little kid in Little League. Even then he was huge. Was always afraid he would hurt someone. Never had the experience of seeing someone that young be that big.
You did? I was an umpire back then, and umped a few of Sullivan's games (when he was behind the plate).
I am ALWAYS worried about the Center position... Â
the standard take is if we don’t have 5 pro bowlers than they suck. The thought about Halapio was he was larger and stouter at the point of attack than Jones last year. He is still learning the Center position. It’s hard to project what his ceiling is. As for Pulley, he was the lowest graded starting center in the league in 2017. He was below average last year- at best.
in his 2 games before he got injured. The entire O-line was a disaster until mid-season when it became average at best. I don't know what to make of Halipio. He simply hasn't played that much. But, what we saw was nothing to write home about. Spencer Pulley seemed overmatched at times. Similar to Wheeler. I think both know what to do at their positions. They just got overmatched physically too often. I think you have to say that we know what we have in Pulley as a floor level. Hopefully, he gets stronger and improves. Halipio is a trust the coaches call. Watch Evans in the center competition.
*missed 8 games, played in 15 over last 2 years, “below average” 2018 grade
** missed 12 games, “below average” 2018 grade
*** atrocious football players, could you have a worse T tandem?
I wouldn't say that. At best it was damning with faint praise:
Quote:
Patrick Omameh and Jon Halapio didn’t stand out in a negative way. They both allowed 1 pressure each but weren’t on the radar much other than that. The issue was just a lack of difference making movement. The interior of the JAC defense went where they wanted to. It’s pretty bad that these two had the best grades of the OL, because by no means were they above average or even close to it.
But I think we'll be better at C than we will at RT. I don't really see either position as gaping holes, just large question marks backed by quality depth. Hernandez is a guy that I'm not taking for granted either, there are plenty of examples of promising young rookies that do not progress or even regress. This line really needs him to step up and for Solder to continue his momentum from last season. That's probably a bigger key to success than what level of mediocre the bargain types are.
C is clearly a position we'll be looking to upgrade next offseason unless Pio breaks out, and anyway, we're in the middle of a rebuild and this upcoming season we are simply not going to be competitive, so I see no reason to worry. It's not like this piece is what is going to hold us back from greatness.
What I am "worried" about is the team eeking out a few more wins than they deserve and missing out on a prime draft target.
Adding another starter to the O-line where clearly
RT and Center are still question marks .
Baker was my favorite CB in the draft but if we have
more than one injury to the starters it's gonna get
ugly .
baaahahahahaha....I'd suspect this guy actually IS Gettleman if Gettleman knew how to turn on a computer.
1. Zeitler is 1 of the best guards in the NFL. Not even debatable.
2. Hernandez graded as 21st overall guard, as a rookie, and widely regarded as a huge steal and 1 of the most dominant run blockers to come out in recent memory.
Feel free to list all of the better Guard tandems in the league.
to see which one gets the starting nod. Not really a position where you'd want fluidity. It's one guy's and that's it. And I have no clue, all things considered, which one even might have the inside edge going in.
I guess because he's signed longer and is a couple years younger (26, opposed to Halapio being 28) I hope Pulley wins the job.
I do think adding Zeitler on the right helps and I don't see a chance of Hernandez regressing.
Remmers is at LEAST solid, from everything I'm reading on BBI, and it seemed like Solder got healthy AND worked through a slight learning curve regarding a different situation last year.
Just need some depth, and better than Wheeler (although for a back-up, he's certainly not the worst).
Coaching staff seems to like Halapio. Then they have two guys behind him who are "true" centers.
As somebody said above, Pulley is servicable and has already started for parts of two seasons at center. Evan Brown is the guy with the explosive 36" vertical. He is the sleeper.
I'm far more concernded by Edge, safety, LB etc . . .
No OL has five all pros. And with a center, the mental part of the game is as important as the physical. That's why having true centers with NFL experience is important.
Center might not be strength this year but with the three guys they have, the position will be comptently manned.
Zeitler is solid, but in seven years in the league never been named to an All Pro team, or even the Pro Bowl, once.
Better tandems? Zack Martin and whoever starts opposite him on the Cowboys (doesn't matter who it is because Martin is far superior to any Giants linemen), Andrus Peat and Larry Warford, David DeCastro and Ramon Foster, Joel Bitonio and Austin Corbett (who Cleveland moved Zeitler out to promote, after all).....
But I think we'll be better at C than we will at RT. I don't really see either position as gaping holes, just large question marks backed by quality depth. Hernandez is a guy that I'm not taking for granted either, there are plenty of examples of promising young rookies that do not progress or even regress. This line really needs him to step up and for Solder to continue his momentum from last season. That's probably a bigger key to success than what level of mediocre the bargain types are.
Not a chance Hernandez regresses. Zero chance.
I don't think he will but that's a ridiculous statement. Recent history is littered with promising rookies or young players that fizzeled out. You don't even have to look past the Giants in the last 5 years to find two examples in Pugh and Richburg.
the physical play on the field ... and Hernandez seems to check all the boxes. So am I over the top saying "no chance?" Sure. Just I think it's really not something worth even considering, when there are so many other areas of question or concern.
the physical play on the field ... and Hernandez seems to check all the boxes. So am I over the top saying "no chance?" Sure. Just I think it's really not something worth even considering, when there are so many other areas of question or concern.
How Hernandez looks this year is much more important to the overall big picture than how our one year stop gaps and bargain bin flyers do. To me at least because I'm looking more towards 2020 and beyond.
Speking of this year, it's important for the C position as well because if he can be the stud that many are assuming that he already is (he's not there yet), then the guy playing in between he and Zeitler takes on less importance.
Zeitler is solid, but in seven years in the league never been named to an All Pro team, or even the Pro Bowl, once.
Better tandems? Zack Martin and whoever starts opposite him on the Cowboys (doesn't matter who it is because Martin is far superior to any Giants linemen), Andrus Peat and Larry Warford, David DeCastro and Ramon Foster, Joel Bitonio and Austin Corbett (who Cleveland moved Zeitler out to promote, after all).....
Even with dismissing Zeitler’s dominance (there aren’t 10 better Guards in the entire league), dismissing Hernandez entirely, and assuming Dallas/Cleveland’s other G plug ins will automatically play well ... you still came up with only 4 tandems
Thank you for actually proving my point. Always a pleasure!
yesterday on James O’Hagan, where they listed him as one of the undrafted hidden gems. Although only 6'1", he was one of the top Centers in the nation last year, and supposedly, what he lacks in height, he makes-up for using leverage.
I really wish we picked up a Center and Tackle in this past Â
He really hasn't done much in the NFL, I think the Giants
are hoping he is a 'late bloomer'. I just know they like him, based on how they talk about him.
I would say I am a bit concerned, we'll see how it plays out.
I think they got him in early September last year, could happen again
I would feel much better with him on the roster.
Pulley or Sullivan? Which would you rather see wearing Big Blue?
Agreed.
Halapio got beat to badly in the games he played in for me to feel good about him. He needs to be the glue, and he looked just as bad when everything around him became unhinged.
Halapio got beat to badly in the games he played in for me to feel good about him. He needs to be the glue, and he looked just as bad when everything around him became unhinged.
We will have all of training camp and 4 preseason games to evaluate him , Pulley and O'Hagan. May the best man win.
he's from Fairfield County, i believe he wrestled at Greenwich. guy was a beast.
That's true but I remember when we signed him he wanted to play his true position which is center. He started a LOT of games for the Browns and I remember specifically reading an article calling him out as one of the quietly successful players that helped Butch Davis to that 9-7 (2002 I think) season where it looked like between Couch and Holcomb they were on the upswing with good competition between QBs. I remember being stoked about signing him. You don't have to be an all pro to be a good solid player and a good solid signing.
It's been a long time since, so maybe the history is clouded. O'Hara spent four years with the browns. Was a bench player for two of them, started 16 and 14 games his final two seasons there. Can't speak to the articles you read at the time, but it's not quite as you remember.
he's from Fairfield County, i believe he wrestled at Greenwich. guy was a beast.
Coached him as a little kid in Little League. Even then he was huge. Was always afraid he would hurt someone. Never had the experience of seeing someone that young be that big.
I’ve asked this question too. Doesn’t seem like anybody knows much about him. Obviously, NYG saw something by protecting on the 53 last year particularly while Gettleman was constantly churning the bottom of the roster.
Unfortunately, they are stop gaps. I think the Giants know this about Remmers, but are trying to bullshit their way through Center. It ain't gonna work.
Belichick had two weeks to game plan against that OL, and the Patriots worked over the Rams OL pretty good.
Still, I was beating the drum for the Giants to draft a good C/OG prospect this year, and obviously that didn't happen. Maybe the UDFA they signed will surprise, maybe not. Maybe Brown steps it up, maybe not. We'll see.
For now, even though Pulley got a lot of playing time last year, my guess is that the Giants have Halapio penciled in as the starter, for better or for worse. It's not ideal, but I hope it's not fatal.
If you are going to lose sleep...LBers, pass rush on defense and #1 WR
People are saying no plan but this is a massive change as to where we were! Also keep in mind if Carter trends as expected/hopes and Golden goes to pre injury #1 WR is the biggest issue. Who knows maybe Slayton gets better concentration and hands .... this is the last big chance for Latimore and Coleman as #1 .... maybe they seize the day at least for a season crazier things have happened
Remmers is a better RT than what we’ve seen in a long time.
They are stopgaps. Can’t fix everything in 2 offseasons. I expect offense, around Daniel Jones, to be highly prioritized in the draft and with free agency.
Step 1: Good drafts
Step 2: Get rid of dead weight
Step 3: Complete the “rebuild”
Step 4: Legit SB/playoff contention
We’re currently on step 2.5 ... 2020 Free Agency + another strong draft class gets us back to relevance. 2021 back to SB contention.
He inherited a trainwreck, on and off the field. That’s what happens when you draft terribly for almost a decade and need to overpay vets to field a competent starting lineup ... a top heavy roster with 0 depth that’ll inevitably implode.
There also wouldn't be a huge drop off in talent if Halapio went down, there is some depth.
Pulley
EBrown
O’Hagen (beast in college)
I trust one of them will step up to the plate.
Quote:
but i think he's done. didn't he end the year on injury last season?
he's from Fairfield County, i believe he wrestled at Greenwich. guy was a beast.
Coached him as a little kid in Little League. Even then he was huge. Was always afraid he would hurt someone. Never had the experience of seeing someone that young be that big.
You did? I was an umpire back then, and umped a few of Sullivan's games (when he was behind the plate).
Cannot understand the reason for optimism on this site for Jon Halapio???
I understand taking a "wait-and-see" stance, but optimism? The guy hasn't done jack shit yet for the Giants.
2017: ***Flowers, *Pugh, **Richburg, Jerry, ***Hart
*missed 8 games, played in 15 over last 2 years, “below average” 2018 grade
** missed 12 games, “below average” 2018 grade
*** atrocious football players, could you have a worse T tandem?
It’s come a long way in 2 years.
I wouldn't say that. At best it was damning with faint praise:
Not a chance Hernandez regresses. Zero chance.
What I am "worried" about is the team eeking out a few more wins than they deserve and missing out on a prime draft target.
RT and Center are still question marks .
Baker was my favorite CB in the draft but if we have
more than one injury to the starters it's gonna get
ugly .
I think Eli is at his best when he can step up in the pocket.
Moreover, I still have doubts about Schurmur's judgment.
I had hoped they would have drafted a C but alas they didn't.
All that said, I still hope it works out
1. Zeitler is 1 of the best guards in the NFL. Not even debatable.
2. Hernandez graded as 21st overall guard, as a rookie, and widely regarded as a huge steal and 1 of the most dominant run blockers to come out in recent memory.
Feel free to list all of the better Guard tandems in the league.
I guess because he's signed longer and is a couple years younger (26, opposed to Halapio being 28) I hope Pulley wins the job.
I do think adding Zeitler on the right helps and I don't see a chance of Hernandez regressing.
Remmers is at LEAST solid, from everything I'm reading on BBI, and it seemed like Solder got healthy AND worked through a slight learning curve regarding a different situation last year.
Just need some depth, and better than Wheeler (although for a back-up, he's certainly not the worst).
I'm pretty excited.
As somebody said above, Pulley is servicable and has already started for parts of two seasons at center. Evan Brown is the guy with the explosive 36" vertical. He is the sleeper.
I'm far more concernded by Edge, safety, LB etc . . .
No OL has five all pros. And with a center, the mental part of the game is as important as the physical. That's why having true centers with NFL experience is important.
Center might not be strength this year but with the three guys they have, the position will be comptently manned.
Better tandems? Zack Martin and whoever starts opposite him on the Cowboys (doesn't matter who it is because Martin is far superior to any Giants linemen), Andrus Peat and Larry Warford, David DeCastro and Ramon Foster, Joel Bitonio and Austin Corbett (who Cleveland moved Zeitler out to promote, after all).....
Quote:
But I think we'll be better at C than we will at RT. I don't really see either position as gaping holes, just large question marks backed by quality depth. Hernandez is a guy that I'm not taking for granted either, there are plenty of examples of promising young rookies that do not progress or even regress. This line really needs him to step up and for Solder to continue his momentum from last season. That's probably a bigger key to success than what level of mediocre the bargain types are.
Not a chance Hernandez regresses. Zero chance.
I don't think he will but that's a ridiculous statement. Recent history is littered with promising rookies or young players that fizzeled out. You don't even have to look past the Giants in the last 5 years to find two examples in Pugh and Richburg.
How Hernandez looks this year is much more important to the overall big picture than how our one year stop gaps and bargain bin flyers do. To me at least because I'm looking more towards 2020 and beyond.
Speking of this year, it's important for the C position as well because if he can be the stud that many are assuming that he already is (he's not there yet), then the guy playing in between he and Zeitler takes on less importance.
Better tandems? Zack Martin and whoever starts opposite him on the Cowboys (doesn't matter who it is because Martin is far superior to any Giants linemen), Andrus Peat and Larry Warford, David DeCastro and Ramon Foster, Joel Bitonio and Austin Corbett (who Cleveland moved Zeitler out to promote, after all).....
Even with dismissing Zeitler’s dominance (there aren’t 10 better Guards in the entire league), dismissing Hernandez entirely, and assuming Dallas/Cleveland’s other G plug ins will automatically play well ... you still came up with only 4 tandems
Thank you for actually proving my point. Always a pleasure!
We are going to be back to having 3 major holes on the offensive lines in a year or 2. We need an influx of young grown talent now.
Center was also a position that could have been drafted this past draft that there was an abundance of great talent.