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Giants declined the most of any team in the NFL this offseas

armstead98 : 5/14/2019 1:19 pm
Dan Graziano, national NFL writer: New York Giants. They've made themselves an easy target, but it's all justified. You can't tell me they're better for trading Odell Beckham Jr., for letting Landon Collins leave and sign with a division rival instead of holding him in place with an affordable $11.15 million franchise tag, for trading pass-rusher Olivier Vernon then passing up on outside linebacker Josh Allen at pick No. 6 so they could take a quarterback who had a 59.9 completion percentage in the ACC. When your team has missed the playoffs six of the past seven seasons, what you want to know is that it at least has a plan and a vision for how to pull out of the malaise. There's little evidence that the Giants have that.
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keep talking shit Graziano  
Platos : 5/14/2019 1:22 pm : link
guys almost never right lol
What a unique storyline... "Gettleman Has No Plan"  
regulator : 5/14/2019 1:23 pm : link
the sheer novelty of it is simply shocking.
Wasn't  
HoustonGiant : 5/14/2019 1:25 pm : link
getting Saquon instead of a QB really stupid too?

Peppers > Collins  
Phil in LA : 5/14/2019 1:25 pm : link
.
Now do people believe me when I say that...  
Milton : 5/14/2019 1:27 pm : link
...the Giants will win the division!? How much more proof do you need then when the media is unanimously against them.
Peppers is better than Collins...  
Damon : 5/14/2019 1:28 pm : link
Vernon was declining always hurt...
Zietler is a stud lineman at a position one could argue of most need...
And they picked up 2 defensive starters in the first round...

Yes we’re missing an explosive WR. BUT the best RB IN THE GAME... will be better behind this new line... as will Eli. And when the baton is passed to Jones.... He will already be spoiled with more talent around him than ever before....

I think we will be pleasantly surprised... And I bet.... Jones gets a full redshirt this year...
You can argue with him on many of his points  
Bill L : 5/14/2019 1:29 pm : link
but the one about Jones is gratuitous.

I didn't want Jones (or any other QB) this year and would have been elated had they chosen Allen.

*However* not getting Allen does not make us or contribute to a decline. At best, it's "stay the same when you could have improved". So, the inclusion is phony.

Further, had we not picked Jones, he would have written a story about DG's failure to plan for a future without Eli. The Jones part is simply a scuzzy version of "damned if you do and damned if you don't."
How do we trade all our beat writers?  
George from PA : 5/14/2019 1:31 pm : link
?
Draft hinges  
pjcas18 : 5/14/2019 1:34 pm : link
on Jones and won't be known likely until 2020 season.

If Eli is Eli of the past two years (no improvement and clearly not the future) and Jones shits the bed, this was a disaster of a draft no matter how much kool-aid anyone drinks.
RE: You can argue with him on many of his points  
Beezer : 5/14/2019 1:34 pm : link
In comment 14443347 Bill L said:
Quote:
but the one about Jones is gratuitous.

I didn't want Jones (or any other QB) this year and would have been elated had they chosen Allen.

*However* not getting Allen does not make us or contribute to a decline. At best, it's "stay the same when you could have improved". So, the inclusion is phony.

Further, had we not picked Jones, he would have written a story about DG's failure to plan for a future without Eli. The Jones part is simply a scuzzy version of "damned if you do and damned if you don't."


This.
Graziano has to write something  
SGMen : 5/14/2019 1:35 pm : link
Let him write.

Victory is sweet and I feel this team has better leadership, less drama, and more talent on the OL and defense this year than last.

Yes, we don't have a #1 WR that can draw double teams but neither did New England. I see us using a traditional "quick hit" West Coast offense and we have WR C. Coleman for deep plays as well as rookie 5th rounder Slayer.

9-7, give or take a game, as long as we are healthy on the lines and Saquon.
DG has no plan, other than to  
mfsd : 5/14/2019 1:36 pm : link
- rebuild the OL
- rebuild the defense
- draft a successor to Eli
- let go of overpriced vets
- create cap space for the future
- accumulate extra draft picks

Wonder when he’s going to start doing those things? Oh wait...
Given the talent we traded away  
JonC : 5/14/2019 1:38 pm : link
he could be correct. Hard to argue the young talent is better than the proven talent we moved out.
No plan  
GothamGiants : 5/14/2019 1:40 pm : link
I feel like rebuilding the OL, drafting the best offensive prospect available in years (who happens to be a RB), overhauling the Secondary, building a potential “brick wall” of a DL, and adding good system fits on defense while drafting a young QB to develop and ridding the team of bad contracts is a brilliant plan

I won’t even remember Vernon was a Giant in a few years, but let’s act like “losing” him and Collins is like getting rid of Reggie White and Ronnie Lott.

I like this kind of nonsense, the Giants play better when they are repeatedly dismissed/written off by the media. Keep it coming!
Beckham helped a hell of a lot  
BSIMatt : 5/14/2019 1:41 pm : link
when the Giants were 1-8 last year. I loved Beckham, but let's not overstate the impact of one WR on an entire offense when the line was a collaborative turnstile.

So, loss of Beckham, also equals the loss revolving door at RG and RT(hopefully). You can't acknowledge loss of Beckham, without acknowledging at the very minimum the addition by subtraction on the right side of the OLine with Wheeler, the addition of one of the best right guards in football, the addition of Tate, to at least soften the blow of losing Beckham with a proven productive veteran RAC WR. You can't just talk about loss of Beckham as if he some god in cleats, who had no impact the ineptness of the offensive line last year and the dismal start to 2018. We had Beckham last year and the offense was a laughing stock to start the season, WITH Odell. The line needed to be addressed. What a lazy analysis by Graziano.
Rushing attack will improve  
JonC : 5/14/2019 1:42 pm : link
as will pass protection, but we're down one playmaker at WR, one at Edge, and a lot of young parts to integrate.
Sorry, "analysis"  
BSIMatt : 5/14/2019 1:42 pm : link
by Graziano.
Outside of BBI  
UberAlias : 5/14/2019 1:49 pm : link
Nearly everyone I’ve spoken with shares his perspective. Let’s face it, the team made a lot of controversial moves. Only time will tell if they were right.
I just don't get it  
GiantGrit : 5/14/2019 1:49 pm : link
How are people still hung up on the lack of plan story line? I think its reasonable to ask whether getting rid of Collins and Odell was the right decision, but they clearly have a plan. The right plan? I don't know yet. But i see it clearly.
Graziano getting his revenge  
Reese's Pieces : 5/14/2019 1:51 pm : link
for the years the Giants made him look like a fool for underrating them so much.

Vernon - not a good enough player to get excited about.

OBJ - arguably, at least one and maybe two of his prime years wasted on non-contending Giants while a contending team (Cleveland?) willing to give up assets to turn the Giants around faster.

Collins - No excuse. Write off last season. Team began 1-7, JPP and Snacks unexpectedly traded. Defense quit.

Jones - If he turns into an elite quarterback that is the only thing that will be remembered about this draft.
It will be nice to see Eli behind a professional offensive line  
GiantBlue : 5/14/2019 1:52 pm : link
Reese treated the OL like an annoyance he had to fill. Gettleman treats the OL like the mainspring of life for this offense.

It will be nice to not have that "hey throw to me" that OBJ brought to each series where it seemed Eli had to force passes into tight areas so he could catch his slants.

Maybe we can get back to the deeper passing game again with this OL. Maybe we can see sparks of the old Eli again which would be wonderful.
Hmmm...  
Amtoft : 5/14/2019 1:52 pm : link
Safeties better
CBs better
DL better
OLB better
OL better

only worse is WR and really we lost a big distraction and added a good blocking WR that makes people miss.
I love how he mentions Vernon  
GothamGiants : 5/14/2019 1:56 pm : link
Guy has had 1 10+ sack season (in 2013), been hurt last 2 years, and they got 1 of the best G in the league in exchange

It was a brilliant move, but I guess guards aren’t “sexy”
RE: It will be nice to see Eli behind a professional offensive line  
chuckydee9 : 5/14/2019 1:57 pm : link
In comment 14443384 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
Reese treated the OL like an annoyance he had to fill. Gettleman treats the OL like the mainspring of life for this offense.

It will be nice to not have that "hey throw to me" that OBJ brought to each series where it seemed Eli had to force passes into tight areas so he could catch his slants.

Maybe we can get back to the deeper passing game again with this OL. Maybe we can see sparks of the old Eli again which would be wonderful.


Eli forces the passes to everyone.. let's not make it out like obj was the reason for Eli forcing the ball..
RE: Hmmm...  
GothamGiants : 5/14/2019 1:58 pm : link
In comment 14443385 Amtoft said:
Quote:
Safeties better
CBs better
DL better
OLB better
OL better

only worse is WR and really we lost a big distraction and added a good blocking WR that makes people miss.


This. The team is much better as a whole.

Funny how quickly people forget the state of this team/run game 2 years ago
RE: Hmmm...  
JonC : 5/14/2019 1:58 pm : link
In comment 14443385 Amtoft said:
Quote:
Safeties better
CBs better
DL better
OLB better
OL better

only worse is WR and really we lost a big distraction and added a good blocking WR that makes people miss.


A lot of those parts on defense are rookies and 2nd year players.
Yes, improving virtually every position on the team  
BillT : 5/14/2019 1:59 pm : link
While drafting your next QB certainly screams "no plan". The press thinks they can tell us anything and we'll believe it. The media narrative must be right.
It's a fair assessment  
AcesUp : 5/14/2019 2:02 pm : link
It all hinges on how our unproven talent progresses. Those on the outside barely factor that in while those on here assume every prospect will work out. It's no different than how we look at other rosters. Take Lorenzo Carter, I doubt many of you are putting much stock in how a random team's 3rd rounder from last year that flashed may upgrade their team this year.
So.. they won less than 6 games the last 2 years  
GiantsRage2007 : 5/14/2019 2:03 pm : link
I bet if they brought everyone back - the article would be - "same players returning, but hoping for different result is insanity"

BS ....  
Beer Man : 5/14/2019 2:06 pm : link
Sure DG traded OBJ and drafted DJ at #6. I could see the arguments that these were unwise decisions. But making unpopular decisions doesn't equate to the Giants declining, maybe you could say they could have received better value with better decisions. The OL has improved (albeit there is still more work to do), the DBs have greatly improved, and the team pickup a stud for the middle of the DL. Declined? I don't think so. Could they have done more? Probably, but time will answer that.
The Dolphins get a few mentions  
shyster : 5/14/2019 2:06 pm : link
for team that has declined the most but they are also given credit for not trying to be "in the middle" and clearing the decks for a full rebuild.

Solder, Zeitler, Tate; on the other side of 30. They may help NYG be respectable this year but are they going to be in the picture when Daniel Jones is ready to lead this team to anything?

Joe Thomas retired after his age 32 year. There are many more Joe Thomases, or guys just hanging on, than there are Andrew Wbitworths.

I was not opposed to trading OBJ but I wouldn't have spent the money saved on old Golden Tate and average Sterling Shepherd, who should be readily replaceable in the draft.

That's where the "no plan" criticism comes from. We'll see if the Giants can play the "in the middle" game to future success.
Seems like the Giants potential success has become  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 5/14/2019 2:06 pm : link
less certain, not more in decline. When you trade older established players for newer less established players, you haven't necessarily gotten worse, you have become more uncertain - both on the upside and downside.
RE: RE: Hmmm...  
Amtoft : 5/14/2019 2:08 pm : link
In comment 14443398 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 14443385 Amtoft said:


Quote:


Safeties better
CBs better
DL better
OLB better
OL better

only worse is WR and really we lost a big distraction and added a good blocking WR that makes people miss.



A lot of those parts on defense are rookies and 2nd year players.


Marcus Golden, Peppers, and Bethea 3 veteran starters. Sure we are mixing in a rookie CB DeAndre Baker or basically rookie Sam Beal to replace who? Love could get some play also at nickel. That is on the other side of our veteran CB. A first round DL rookie who should get playing time, but we also got Olsen Pierre who plays well. Really Carter, the CBs and Dexter Lawerence are our only young players that should plenty get minutes. I guess you can add BJ Hill but he started so many games he isn't really a question mark.
What a fucking sheep  
BlueHurricane : 5/14/2019 2:09 pm : link
Anyone with half a brain can see this team is trending upward and flushed the locker room turds down the toilet.

This season is starting to remind me of the year where everyone (especially Da Pope) was laughing at the cowboys and saying they wouldn't win 4 games because their defense was going to be pure trash. That team won the East going away and made a deep run in the playoffs.
RE: Seems like the Giants potential success has become  
AcesUp : 5/14/2019 2:09 pm : link
In comment 14443414 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
less certain, not more in decline. When you trade older established players for newer less established players, you haven't necessarily gotten worse, you have become more uncertain - both on the upside and downside.


Well put.
RE: Given the talent we traded away  
BillyM : 5/14/2019 2:10 pm : link
In comment 14443366 JonC said:
Quote:
he could be correct. Hard to argue the young talent is better than the proven talent we moved out.


proven talent? I get your point, but proven talent finds wins for us.
If the team were going all-out to win in 2019, he might be right...  
Dan in the Springs : 5/14/2019 2:11 pm : link
but the team is preparing to win in 2019, while building the right team to continue to win and grow into the 2020's.

There is not just personnel turnover, but there is team-building. This team is being built right now.

I hope we show significant improvement, but nobody can deny that it's in years 2020 and 2021 that we should see the effects of the 2019 offseason.
Still need a WR and a EDGE rusher.  
Brown Recluse : 5/14/2019 2:12 pm : link
You don't need the best wideout in the game to have a top offense, but you do need a guy thats better than Tate or Shepard. And I just don't feel comfortable depending on Evan Engram. We'll see what happens but this is something that concerns me.

No pass rusher on this team right now that had more than 5.5 sacks last season. Huge gamble that Golden will recover and Carter will take a big leap.

Other than that, both lines are better. The secondary is vastly improved. I'll take the combo of Peppers/Bethea over Collins/Riley any day, and the CB position is pretty deep considering last year the #2 and #3 were Webb and Haley.

Its definitely a better team overall and the plan should be pretty clear to anyone who has paid attention. This season may not turn out great but I see a huge leap in 2020.
RE: Hmmm...  
bw in dc : 5/14/2019 2:13 pm : link
In comment 14443385 Amtoft said:
Quote:
Safeties better
CBs better
DL better
OLB better
OL better



I'll give you the OL.

As for the rest, you must be looking into a very reliable crystal ball because I have no idea how you can be so firm in those conclusions.

I could argue the complete other way with all of the unproven parts.

Just remember all of this...  
Britt in VA : 5/14/2019 2:13 pm : link
if the Giants have a good season this year.

Remember all of this, and hammer these guys accordingly, and never let them forget it.
RE: Given the talent we traded away  
Amtoft : 5/14/2019 2:13 pm : link
In comment 14443366 JonC said:
Quote:
he could be correct. Hard to argue the young talent is better than the proven talent we moved out.


I don't agree... We have more experience at Safety and I think a big upgrade just by not having Riley there. We replace Oliver Vernon with Markus Golden who has plenty of experience especially in this Def. We add Pierre Olsen and a big time rookie in Dexter Lawrence. What veteran players did we move out and not replace with veterans? Only position I can see is one CB spot and it won't be hard for that to be an upgrade with DeAndre Baker and Sam Beal.
Bethea is close to the end  
JonC : 5/14/2019 2:16 pm : link
stop gap, Golden hasn't returned to form.

I like Peppers upside a great deal, but he still needs to do it on the field, not just the paper. That's the case for all the young bucks, that's the point.
For as much as we talk about TEAM in football  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/14/2019 2:17 pm : link
it borders on weird how people attempt to rationalize that if a player doesn't singlehandedly deliver wins he must not be that talented.


That's not how football works.
So, if Giants win 6 games this year  
ZogZerg : 5/14/2019 2:17 pm : link
This guy will be proven, again, to be full of shit - right?
RE: RE: Given the talent we traded away  
JonC : 5/14/2019 2:18 pm : link
In comment 14443420 BillyM said:
Quote:
In comment 14443366 JonC said:


Quote:


he could be correct. Hard to argue the young talent is better than the proven talent we moved out.



proven talent? I get your point, but proven talent finds wins for us.


Sure, but there's no denying who has performed in the NFL and who has yet to provide more than a small sample size of hope. And, I say that as one who's glad the proven talent is gone, from a character standpoint.
Spectacular analysis  
Stu11 : 5/14/2019 2:19 pm : link
Rip the Giants mentioning only the guys they got rid of as if Thanos made them all go poof, with no replacements. "No plan"? Seriously? we're still on that line? They stacked up on D with this draft, drafted who they feel is their future starting QB, shored up the O-line, and with the OBJ/Vernon trades signaled that they were going to take on tons of dead money this season and re-set with tons of cap room and very possibly another top 10 pick next season. Listen its not all roses. If Jones isn't a franchise QB then the plan is seriously flawed, and of course you can never count on it as a sure thing the draft picks and young guys brought in to live up to expectations. However to sit there and say there is no plan is flat out lazy if not totally blind analysis.
As to the OP  
JonC : 5/14/2019 2:20 pm : link
I think the Giants can win 6 games, I believe they will be a better team in 2019. But, there is proven production out the door and a lot of optimism on the young bucks to get it done.
This is the common refrain  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 5/14/2019 2:22 pm : link
The problem is that the average Joe (or ill-informed sportswriter) doesn't realize that Collins was a poor scheme fit, it diesnt matter how reasonable the tag number is, its still 11 million for a poor scheme fit.

As for Vernon, people know his name so they gasp when he gets traded, but his production wasn't great.
I can't take Graziano seriously when he says things like this:  
Klaatu : 5/14/2019 2:22 pm : link
Quote:
...letting Landon Collins leave and sign with a division rival instead of holding him in place with an affordable $11.15 million franchise tag...


There's no guarantee that Collins would have accepted the tag, in fact, if I'm not mistaken he said he wouldn't. Regardless, he's regressed every year since his 2016 All-Pro season, and he's also a "shoulder-tackler" who's got a bum shoulder, and he's a liability in coverage. If you buy what PFF is selling, Jabril Peppers graded out higher than Collins in 2018. Peppers is an ascending player. You can't say that about Collins. And Peppers is a much better fit in Bettcher's defense than Collins is.

And, no, they didn't draft Josh Allen to replace Olivier Vernon, but they did sign Markus Golden to beef up their pass-rush, and no doubt they have high hopes for Lorenzo Carter and Oshane Ximines at ER/OLB.
Sounds like there is some  
TMS : 5/14/2019 2:26 pm : link
animosity for DG in the local press. Keep writing hit pieces week after week . HTF needs them. We will see when the season begins.
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